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Void years - can someone confirm my understanding?


derp

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Next year on OTC the Jets have Duane Brown, Jordan Whitehead, Carl Lawson, and Quinton Jefferson listed with no cap savings if they’re “cut” pre June 1 and some savings if they’re cut post June 1. All are listed as 2024 free agents with FA type “Void”. Total 2024 cap hit $15,868,000 - over $11M of which is Brown and Lawson.

Those four also have a 2025 cap hit of $11,507,000. And a 2026 cap hit of $7,146,000. And a 2027 cap hit of $2,785,000. Total of $37,306,000 spread over the next four years to have Duane Brown, Carl Lawson, Quinton Jefferson, and Jordan Whitehead on this 4-8 team.

This seems to be something Douglas is doing. The same goes for CJ Mosley, Laken Tomlinson, CJ Uzomah, Tyler Conklin, and Wes Schweitzer in 2025. In 2026 it’s Aaron Rodgers, John Franklin-Myers, and Quincy Williams. Allen Lazard, he of another year and a half on the team partway through the first year season of a four year contract, makes an appearance in 2027. The last one is Quinnen Williams in 2028.

Am I wrong or is the reason this is done effectively to create a dead cap hit in that last year and spread out the financial implications of a contract?

If that’s the case, Douglas spent a whole lot of future money to make sure he was able to assemble the team producing what we’re watching on the field this year.

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You are correct.   Douglass pushed a bunch of dead cap money way into the future, to ensure the talent level of this team.   That is far and away his worst decision as a GM, and why I want him dumped after next year.  He saw what Mac did to the cap, fixed it, and then intentionally made it crappy again, so now the next GM will have 80 million in dead cap space in the years to come.

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17 minutes ago, chirorob said:

In 2025, the Jets will have 26 million in cap charges to players not on the team, and that is BEFORE the Aaron Rodgers cap hits. 

In 2026, the Jets will have another 25ish million in cap charges to players not on the team, again BEFORE the Rodgers cap hits.

Joe D has handcuffed the future of the team, so that the Jets could win 11 games over 2 years, while giving up draft capital in the process.

Youngest fattest dumbest GM in all of sports. Am I doing it right @Joe W. Namath?

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My understanding is that the void years basically extend the time that you are dividing the bonus.  It is generally good practice since the cap keeps going up, up, up, up, up (to quote Shattered).  $25M in 2025 will be less of a percentage of the cap than in 2023.  Douglas did not invent this practice, and I don't think he used it much compared to others.  We have space and will have space.

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25 minutes ago, chirorob said:

You are correct.   Douglass pushed a bunch of dead cap money way into the future, to ensure the talent level of this team.   That is far and away his worst decision as a GM, and why I want him dumped after next year.  He saw what Mac did to the cap, fixed it, and then intentionally made it crappy again, so now the next GM will have 80 million in dead cap space in the years to come.

Mostly yes. He didn't push dead cap into the future so much as he pushed current/past cap into the future in the form of dead cap.

It'll happen again when the bill comes due for Rodgers.

In fairness, everyone does this now. Especially now, since they expect the cap to rise by so much over the coming couple years it won't be as painful as it seems.

It's not the pushing it forward that hurts. It's the paying out to players who aren't contributing (not just Rodgers this season, most obviously, but D.Brown, Lawson, Cook, and more). If he'd just done that and not spent it, then he'd be pushing unused cap space forward along with the dead cap, and the net would be zero, or more negligible.

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3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

My understanding is that the void years basically extend the time that you are dividing the bonus.  It is generally good practice since the cap keeps going up, up, up, up, up (to quote Shattered).  $25M in 2025 will be less of a percentage of the cap than in 2023.  Douglas did not invent this practice, and I don't think he usually it much compared to others.  We have space and will have space.

This.

It looks worse on paper than it is in practice. On the one hand it looks like we can't afford this or that new player, but he (like pretty much all GMs) just backloads new acquisitions, too.

The cap rises by so much now it's not like it used to be where, because a ~$10MM/year rise didn't keep pace with contract inflation, the bill eventually came due.

Now? Hey if the Saints could get out of that mess they were in - weren't they some $100MM+ over the cap entering March recently? -  and still sign a new $35MM/year contract for Carr, then this amount is small potatoes.

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Just now, rtnelson said:

How much is this in comparison to the average?

I assume most teams structure their contracts in similar ways moving cap money to the future.

I want to doubt that JD is unique in this way.  But I am no cap wizard, so I could be wrong.

Nah, you're right.

It looks more satisfying to have contracts more evenly spread out and not backloaded, but it's actually a bad practice now.

When the cap rises by $15-20MM every year, it eats up a higher percentage of the cap to front-load contracts. When the cap is more or less steady, that's not as much of a factor.

Plus I'm not a CBA expert but I think this is a fairly new tool GMs have at their disposal. I don't remember void years being a thing years ago. Even if they were obvious void years (think Revis's bs 2nd season with NE) there was at least a salary that was nominally in place before they cut him. Now you don't even have to do that, and there's a $0 salary placeholder. Doesn't really matter, and the players love it, since teams can now spend more now and what was already a soft salary cap got that much softer.

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4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Nah, you're right.

It looks more satisfying to have contracts more evenly spread out and not backloaded, but it's actually a bad practice now.

When the cap rises by $15-20MM every year, it eats up a higher percentage of the cap to front-load contracts. When the cap is more or less steady, that's not as much of a factor.

Plus I'm not a CBA expert but I think this is a fairly new tool GMs have at their disposal. I don't remember void years being a thing years ago. Even if they were obvious void years (think Revis's bs 2nd season with NE) there was at least a salary that was nominally in place before they cut him. Now you don't even have to do that, and there's a $0 salary placeholder. Doesn't really matter, and the players love it, since teams can now spend more now and what was already a soft salary cap got that much softer.

There is always a way, just ask the subject matter experts!

New Orleans Saints Wallpaper HD (73+ images)

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45 minutes ago, chirorob said:

In 2025, the Jets will have 26 million in cap charges to players not on the team, and that is BEFORE the Aaron Rodgers cap hits. 

In 2026, the Jets will have another 25ish million in cap charges to players not on the team, again BEFORE the Rodgers cap hits.

Joe D has handcuffed the future of the team, so that the Jets could win 11 games over 2 years, while giving up draft capital in the process.

Per OTC

Image 1: current = $37m

Image 2: cut Uzomah & Bawden + Restructure Reed & Conklin = $55m

Image 3: same as above + Restructure JFM & Mosley = $75m

The other years update as well so you can see what space is available for 2025,l and 2026.

Screenshot_20231208_124404_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20231208_124602_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20231208_124635_Chrome.jpg

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17 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

How much is this in comparison to the average?

I assume most teams structure their contracts in similar ways moving cap money to the future.

I want to doubt that JD is unique in this way.  But I am no cap wizard, so I could be wrong.

This is from April and I'm not sure where Rodgers falls or whether this includes his reworked contract. Note the dark grey box is an enlarged view of the bottom left corner. 

w4txgva9fuva1.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s

13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Plus I'm not a CBA expert but I think this is a fairly new tool GMs have at their disposal. I don't remember void years being a thing years ago. Even if they were obvious void years (think Revis's bs 2nd season with NE) there was at least a salary that was nominally in place before they cut him. Now you don't even have to do that, and there's a $0 salary placeholder. Doesn't really matter, and the players love it, since teams can now spend more now and what was already a soft salary cap got that much softer.

The first voidable year in an NFL contract was Drew Bledsoe's 1993 contract. It became a huge problem with covid because the salary cap not only fell short of what teams expected in those years but actually dropped. Many teams used voidable years to make contracts work in 2021.

The Jets were particularly brutalized by that because Douglas was stuck in 2020-21 with some of Mac's garbage contracts plus trying to build a team at a time when the salary cap dropped and nobody knew how long covid would affect the league. The whole Rodgers gambit came with a lot of new contracts so I'm sure the Jets would be at the top right of this graph with Rodgers and the rest of the NY Packers. 

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

My understanding is that the void years basically extend the time that you are dividing the bonus.  It is generally good practice since the cap keeps going up, up, up, up, up (to quote Shattered).  $25M in 2025 will be less of a percentage of the cap than in 2023.  Douglas did not invent this practice, and I don't think he used it much compared to others.  We have space and will have space.

 

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Mostly yes. He didn't push dead cap into the future so much as he pushed current/past cap into the future in the form of dead cap.

It'll happen again when the bill comes due for Rodgers.

In fairness, everyone does this now. Especially now, since they expect the cap to rise by so much over the coming couple years it won't be as painful as it seems.

It's not the pushing it forward that hurts. It's the paying out to players who aren't contributing (not just Rodgers this season, most obviously, but D.Brown, Lawson, Cook, and more). If he'd just done that and not spent it, then he'd be pushing unused cap space forward along with the dead cap, and the net would be zero, or more negligible.

Yeah, I think my complaint is less that he’s doing it and more how he’s doing it. It’s ensuring that he can squeeze non contributors, role players, DJ Reed, Aaron Rodgers, and the Williams brothers onto a 4-8 roster that gets me.

Bears, Cardinals, Pats, Commanders, Giants - ie the bad teams the Jets are around in the standings - didn’t do it nearly as widely as Douglas did.

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8 minutes ago, derp said:

 

Yeah, I think my complaint is less that he’s doing it and more how he’s doing it. It’s ensuring that he can squeeze non contributors, role players, DJ Reed, Aaron Rodgers, and the Williams brothers onto a 4-8 roster that gets me.

Bears, Cardinals, Pats, Commanders, Giants - ie the bad teams the Jets are around in the standings - didn’t do it nearly as widely as Douglas did.

Well, he was trying to win a Super Bowl.

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1 hour ago, derp said:

 

Yeah, I think my complaint is less that he’s doing it and more how he’s doing it. It’s ensuring that he can squeeze non contributors, role players, DJ Reed, Aaron Rodgers, and the Williams brothers onto a 4-8 roster that gets me.

Bears, Cardinals, Pats, Commanders, Giants - ie the bad teams the Jets are around in the standings - didn’t do it nearly as widely as Douglas did.

Any of those teams have to wedge Aaron Rodgers contract on their squad?  I mean the Giants have a solid chunk to Jones by those other teams don't have the big ticket player.

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50 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Any of those teams have to wedge Aaron Rodgers contract on their squad?  I mean the Giants have a solid chunk to Jones by those other teams don't have the big ticket player.

Kyler Murray is quite expensive.

I believe the point of squeezing guys onto a roster is to compete for titles. Kick the can down the road until you’ve got a team that can do that, then go all in for a window.

Douglas attempted to do that, except the players he squeezed onto the roster are largely examples of his very poor free agency record. He could’ve cut bait on several of those, or not signed them, but doubled down or made bad signings.

And the resulting roster is one that is really bad. You’re welcome to disagree, but I don’t think this roster is 40 year old Aaron Rodgers away from competing for a title. Maybe competing for a wild card spot.

So I don’t really think this year was the time to get aggressive with a roster, and it definitely wasn’t worth kicking money into future years to make sure this team still could roster Duane Brown, Carl Lawson, CJ Uzomah, Laken Tomlinson, Wes Schweitzer, Allen Lazard…

The practice is fine, but the practice works if it’s used at the right time with the right players. Very much not the case for how Douglas did it.

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1 hour ago, derp said:

Kyler Murray is quite expensive.

I believe the point of squeezing guys onto a roster is to compete for titles. Kick the can down the road until you’ve got a team that can do that, then go all in for a window.

Douglas attempted to do that, except the players he squeezed onto the roster are largely examples of his very poor free agency record. He could’ve cut bait on several of those, or not signed them, but doubled down or made bad signings.

And the resulting roster is one that is really bad. You’re welcome to disagree, but I don’t think this roster is 40 year old Aaron Rodgers away from competing for a title. Maybe competing for a wild card spot.

So I don’t really think this year was the time to get aggressive with a roster, and it definitely wasn’t worth kicking money into future years to make sure this team still could roster Duane Brown, Carl Lawson, CJ Uzomah, Laken Tomlinson, Wes Schweitzer, Allen Lazard…

The practice is fine, but the practice works if it’s used at the right time with the right players. Very much not the case for how Douglas did it.

Eh.  I get that it seems bad now.  On the other hand, I think Schweitzer was a fine signing.  He isn't getting much.  Tomlinson was a big signing that was almost universally praised.  We needed a G and signed one of the top ones.  Did we overpay?  Sure looks like but the knock was that Douglas wouldn't pay retail for anybody.  Lazard has been a horror, but shouldn't have been.  Lawson and Brown both hurt and I get the complaints. I feel like they should have cut bait on Lawson awhile back, but whatever.  I don't think it is going to be as much dead money as you think.  This is just another angle for complaining about the same signings.  I get it.  

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5 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Eh.  I get that it seems bad now.  On the other hand, I think Schweitzer was a fine signing.  He isn't getting much.  Tomlinson was a big signing that was almost universally praised.  We needed a G and signed one of the top ones.  Did we overpay?  Sure looks like but the knock was that Douglas wouldn't pay retail for anybody.  Lazard has been a horror, but shouldn't have been.  Lawson and Brown both hurt and I get the complaints. I feel like they should have cut bait on Lawson awhile back, but whatever.  I don't think it is going to be as much dead money as you think.  This is just another angle for complaining about the same signings.  I get it.  

I could be wrong but I believe most of the maneuvering happened this offseason. At that point Tomlinson had already played poorly, Lawson and Brown had been banged up, etc.

Schweitzer was fine, and maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think it’s common for a team to need to borrow money from future years to afford a backup swing interior OL. Much less make that kind of decision and still have a complete disaster of an OL.

Again, you kick money forward to compete for titles. If the team is going to be bad it’s way more prudent to just take your medicine like Douglas did early in his tenure here.

One thing to go all in, another thing to go all in and be a couple injuries from 4-8 and in a complete tailspin.

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