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But where are the sacks?

AFJF

By AFJF
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AFJF

AFJF

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Me and my fantasy football bros were just talking about how sacks are the only way to tell if a player is good or not.  I mean, how can you be good if you do so many things that don't get my fantasy team a ton of points? Just look at this waste of a rep from QW posted by Josh Norris.  Sucks that Quinnen Wiliams sucks.

 

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Matt39

Matt39

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Just now, Adoni Beast said:

Agreed...Sacks are the most overrated stat in football. Create pressure, break down the offense's play intention, good things usually happen.

 

Sacks as a collective are no where near overrated. Neither are turnovers. 

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Adoni Beast

Adoni Beast

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5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Sacks as a collective are no where near overrated. Neither are turnovers. 

Never said turnovers were overrated and I don't think that they are. 

When I say sacks are overrated that doesn't mean they don't matter....it's just that the value of it is over inflated. They're not meaningless but they certainly are not the end all be all on if a player is "good" or not.

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Creepy Lurker

Creepy Lurker

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1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said:

Never said turnovers were overrated and I don't think that they are. 

When I say sacks are overrated that doesn't mean they don't matter....it's just that the value of it is over inflated. They're not meaningless but they certainly are not the end all be all on if a player is "good" or not.

I think pressures are underrated but sacks are still great and I don’t think you can really “overrate” them. There’s definitely a HUGE divide between how pressure and sacks are valued. There’s no denying that. I just think the divide is due to pressures being undervalued. 

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extmenace

extmenace

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

I presume our sacks are located behind, and to the left, of our INT's.

It feels like somehow we are a great Defense....that doesn't get sacks or turnovers.

Heck of a thing.

Feel like we are running at around 10% on fumble recoveries. We force so many fumbles but we never recover them.

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BornJetsFan1983

BornJetsFan1983

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29 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Me and my fantasy football bros were just talking about how sacks are the only way to tell if a player is good or not.  I mean, how can you be good if you do so many things that don't get my fantasy team a ton of points? Just look at this waste of a rep from QW posted by Josh Norris.  Sucks that Quinnen Wiliams sucks.

 

Guy is best at his position in the league.

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Beerfish

Beerfish

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You are paid 25 million dollar top 2 DT contracts for playing great AND getting sacks.

You are paid 15-18 million a year for playing great and getting no sacks.

Sacks are VASTLY more important than 'pressures' 'pass rush win rate' 'almost got theres'

The best interior DTS are all double teamed and all get sacks to go along with their dominant disruption plays.

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Adoni Beast

Adoni Beast

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21 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I think pressures are underrated but sacks are still great and I don’t think you can’t really “overrate” them. There’s definitely a HUGE divide between how pressure and sacks are valued. There’s no denying that. I just think the divide is due to pressures being undervalued. 

It's certainly not "BAD" to sack the the QB. I more or less meant that if one player has a few more sacks per season than another, it doesn't tell the whole story.

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Jet Nut

Jet Nut

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Sacks are a good way to rate players when people who don’t understand the function of lineman and need some kind of number to feel secure in how they rank players.  
Q is a great DL, don’t give a damn how many sacks he has, no one should or does

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Larz

Larz

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11 minutes ago, Origen said:

A Sack ends the play.  A Pressure just makes it so the touchdown pass is more impressive.  Gimme sacks.

That trench warfare report by Brandon Thorne breaks down sacks into different categories to eliminate sacks guys get as a result of another guy’s pressure, etc.  it’s almost all edge guys. Interior guys that get doubled all the time need to be evaluated differently.  
 

From a team perspective, all sacks are positive for a defense, but they can mean very different things for an individual pass-rusher making the play. Player evaluation based on raw sack statistics can often be misleading depending on a variety of different factors.

Players can add a ‘sack’ on the stat-sheet in various ways, including after the quarterback handles the ball for too long (either due to great coverage or the QB failing to recognize the opening in the defense), as a result of a protection breakdown, by tackling the QB at the line of scrimmage, while still being blocked, or by soundly beating the blocker in front of them due to superior athletic ability and/or technique.

By differentiating and qualifying these different pathways to notching a sack into four different categories — using film study, charting and a simple grading scale — we gain valuable insight into which players are earning their production vs. which players are the beneficiaries of fortunate circumstances.

Through this process, we will be able to more accurately evaluate sack and pass-rush production as a whole for the defensive line position.

The TSR will provide us with each rusher’s “sack score,” based on a point system that specifies four different types of sacks and forced fumbles, as outlined below:

1.25 points: Rare High Quality (RHQ) Sack - A 1-on-1 win over a very good (Ex: Andrew Thomas) or elite (Ex: Trent Williams) blocker due to the rusher’s skill, move(s) and/or athletic ability.

IMG_7950.png

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slimjasi

slimjasi

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I presume our sacks are located behind, and to the left, of our INT's.

It feels like somehow we are a great Defense....that doesn't get sacks or turnovers.

Heck of a thing.

So we are a little better off than you might think when it comes to turnovers.

We have forced 19 turnovers this season (tied for 13th best with 5 other teams). BUT Denver and Jacksonville currently lead the league with only 5 more (24 forced turnovers) AND 17 teams have between 19 and 24. So, we are right up there in terms of forced turnovers. Moreover, total turnovers probably isn't that useful for differentiating defenses, since more than half of the league is within 5 of each other. 

As for INTs, we are top 10 in INTS (tied for 9th, actually) with 11. 

As for sacks, we are tied for 14th best with 36, but if we had only 2 more, we'd be top 10. 

My biggest complaint about the defense is way too many dropped INTs (It feels like Mosley has dropped 4 or 5 on his own this year). 

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Origen

Origen

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2 hours ago, Larz said:

That trench warfare report by Brandon Thorne breaks down sacks into different categories to eliminate sacks guys get as a result of another guy’s pressure, etc.  it’s almost all edge guys. Interior guys that get doubled all the time need to be evaluated differently.  
 

From a team perspective, all sacks are positive for a defense, but they can mean very different things for an individual pass-rusher making the play. Player evaluation based on raw sack statistics can often be misleading depending on a variety of different factors.

Players can add a ‘sack’ on the stat-sheet in various ways, including after the quarterback handles the ball for too long (either due to great coverage or the QB failing to recognize the opening in the defense), as a result of a protection breakdown, by tackling the QB at the line of scrimmage, while still being blocked, or by soundly beating the blocker in front of them due to superior athletic ability and/or technique.

By differentiating and qualifying these different pathways to notching a sack into four different categories — using film study, charting and a simple grading scale — we gain valuable insight into which players are earning their production vs. which players are the beneficiaries of fortunate circumstances.

Through this process, we will be able to more accurately evaluate sack and pass-rush production as a whole for the defensive line position.

The TSR will provide us with each rusher’s “sack score,” based on a point system that specifies four different types of sacks and forced fumbles, as outlined below:

1.25 points: Rare High Quality (RHQ) Sack - A 1-on-1 win over a very good (Ex: Andrew Thomas) or elite (Ex: Trent Williams) blocker due to the rusher’s skill, move(s) and/or athletic ability.

IMG_7950.png

So glad we went after Carl instead of Trey Hendrickson in '20.  That wouldn't have helped at all...

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