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Programs Win, Not Picking High In the Draft


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22 minutes ago, Ulrich said:

I along with many have wanted the Jets to lose this & every season after they were eliminated from playoff contention. To get the highest draft pick possible. 

Look how far that’s gotten us. 

It’s great programs that win. Not where you draft. Good/great programs like the Chiefs, Ravens, Niners, Packers, Pats, Steelers, et al drafted at the end of the first round annually for many years when they’ve been good. Yet they just kept winning. Because their great programs.

Picking high in the draft is fool’s gold. Unless it’s for a legit franchise QB. 

The only time we should be rooting for the Jets to lose is if we’re convinced the current regime is incompetent. This regime seems to check that box. So yes I don’t mind if the Jets lose Sunday because JD & Saleh’s results have been awful and the hotter their seats the better. They either rise to the occasion next season or get gone asap. 

This endless cycle of rooting to lose for a high draft pick is a loser’s game. Instead we can hope the Jets to win Sunday because a light finally went on in this regime’s dim bulb. Otherwise we’ll be back in the exact same place next year. 

We have a S*** GM and a F*** HC,  one more season will not change that fact.  I want us to lose horribly, so that their replacements can draft a building block for the future.

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25 minutes ago, Ulrich said:

I along with many have wanted the Jets to lose this & every season after they were eliminated from playoff contention. To get the highest draft pick possible. 

Look how far that’s gotten us. 

It’s great programs that win. Not where you draft. Good/great programs like the Chiefs, Ravens, Niners, Packers, Pats, Steelers, et al drafted at the end of the first round annually for many years when they’ve been good. Yet they just kept winning. Because their great programs.

Picking high in the draft is fool’s gold. Unless it’s for a legit franchise QB. 

The only time we should be rooting for the Jets to lose is if we’re convinced the current regime is incompetent. This regime seems to check that box. So yes I don’t mind if the Jets lose Sunday because JD & Saleh’s results have been awful and the hotter their seats the better. They either rise to the occasion next season or get gone asap. 

This endless cycle of rooting to lose for a high draft pick is a loser’s game. Instead we can hope the Jets to win Sunday because a light finally went on in this regime’s dim bulb. Otherwise we’ll be back in the exact same place next year. 

 

7 minutes ago, Robert said:

God bless you

been saying it for years.

random bullsh*t top pics to crap programs usually don’t matter much. The proof is in the superbowl win total non parity. 
 

or any sport…….

You guys are rooting for the wrong team, then. 

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13 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No it is utterly stupid in a lost season to win meaningless games that screw you come draft time.

The Jets have proven this time and time and time again.  Those wins are forgotten in a week and come draft time you miss out on far better player in every round.

These meaningless wins never make a culture difference at all.

Yea - I think the only value these games can have is for your young players to get experience in real games.
 

But winning an extra game in a lost season means very little longterm. I do think your important core players have to learn to win at some point, but I think that happens when you are still in contention with the playoffs on the line 

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The 93 Yankees just kept winning even though they were losers and wins didn’t help the draft

 

then 94 they were likely playoff

95 in the big mix tough loss

 

96 onward- rest is history.

 

its all about the program 

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3 hours ago, Ulrich said:

I along with many have wanted the Jets to lose this & every season after they were eliminated from playoff contention. To get the highest draft pick possible. 

Look how far that’s gotten us. 

It’s great programs that win. Not where you draft. Good/great programs like the Chiefs, Ravens, Niners, Packers, Pats, Steelers, et al drafted at the end of the first round annually for many years when they’ve been good. Yet they just kept winning. Because their great programs.

Picking high in the draft is fool’s gold. Unless it’s for a legit franchise QB. 

The only time we should be rooting for the Jets to lose is if we’re convinced the current regime is incompetent. This regime seems to check that box. So yes I don’t mind if the Jets lose Sunday because JD & Saleh’s results have been awful and the hotter their seats the better. They either rise to the occasion next season or get gone asap. 

This endless cycle of rooting to lose for a high draft pick is a loser’s game. Instead we can hope the Jets to win Sunday because a light finally went on in this regime’s dim bulb. Otherwise we’ll be back in the exact same place next year. 

Right! Now let's go and kick some azz Sunday against the Pats and lose that game, because if we dont, we go from 8 to 18. Lets Gooooo.

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2 hours ago, Robert said:

The 93 Yankees just kept winning even though they were losers and wins didn’t help the draft

 

then 94 they were likely playoff

95 in the big mix tough loss

 

96 onward- rest is history.

 

its all about the program 

Brain salad surgery. The Yankees drafted Derek Jeter 6th.  That is all. And I hate Jeter. I 'm a Mets fan. 

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Bobby “all gas” Saleh still has a job

That tells you all you need to know about the level of dysfunction in this franchise 

It’s an organization that settles for pathetic losing 

Tepper is worse, even more of a meddler, but at least he’s shown he’s willing to spare no expense and take drastic measures if necessary 

Woody is fine with the status quo so long as he keeps raking $ and the Jets stay relevant in the media 

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4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No it is utterly stupid in a lost season to win meaningless games that screw you come draft time.

The Jets have proven this time and time and time again.  Those wins are forgotten in a week and come draft time you miss out on far better player in every round.

These meaningless wins never make a culture difference at all.

Once we were eliminated, Saleh should have sat the starters (as much as possible) and played the reserves. it serves numerous puproses: it help identify who you want to bring back the following year, it helps give these guys experience and it spares any unnecessary injuries to you star players.   Oh and it helps, if possible, to get a better pick in the draft.  We already know what  these guys can do like JJ, Sauce, Breece, GW, QW, QW, JFM, Conklion, etc etc etc They need to play guys who are on the bubble, call up some practice squad players, deactivate their star players and call it a rainy day. 

 

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5 hours ago, Robert said:

The 93 Yankees just kept winning even though they were losers and wins didn’t help the draft

 

then 94 they were likely playoff

95 in the big mix tough loss

 

96 onward- rest is history.

 

its all about the program 

Where was Derek Jeter drafted?  

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No it is utterly stupid in a lost season to win meaningless games that screw you come draft time.
The Jets have proven this time and time and time again.  Those wins are forgotten in a week and come draft time you miss out on far better player in every round.
These meaningless wins never make a culture difference at all.
But how many teams who have drafted top 5 consistently have transformed into perennial winners as a result? Always seems to be the same names at the top of the draft, looking for that one "generational guy" who'll turn it all around.



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18 minutes ago, jamesr said:

But how many teams who have drafted top 5 consistently have transformed into perennial winners as a result? Always seems to be the same names at the top of the draft, looking for that one "generational guy" who'll turn it all around.



Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

The Bengals...who with the same coach and GM were had a total of 6 wins combined the 2 years prior. The franchise did not hav a winning record since 2015 either.

But I do agree with the sentiment that this is an outlier (But not an impossibility). If we drafted Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson I do not think that they either of them would be as good as the players they are now, or that our team would be a Super Bowl contender. It is true that a good organization is needed to be a consistent winner.

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25 minutes ago, jamesr said:

But how many teams who have drafted top 5 consistently have transformed into perennial winners as a result? Always seems to be the same names at the top of the draft, looking for that one "generational guy" who'll turn it all around.



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5 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

The Bengals...who with the same coach and GM were had a total of 6 wins combined the 2 years prior. The franchise did not hav a winning record since 2015 either.

But I do agree with the sentiment that this is an outlier (But not an impossibility). If we drafted Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson I do not think that they either of them would be as good as the players they are now, or that our team would be a Super Bowl contender. It is true that a good organization is needed to be a consistent winner.


Also the Rams won a SB in large part due to a combo of years of tanking and stockpiling picks.  

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8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No it is utterly stupid in a lost season to win meaningless games that screw you come draft time.

The Jets have proven this time and time and time again.  Those wins are forgotten in a week and come draft time you miss out on far better player in every round.

These meaningless wins never make a culture difference at all.

I don’t agree. The Jets have had high picks for years and they stink. Also this myth about meaningless wins,  Saleh is something like 2-13 in December.  His predecessors weren’t much better.

Also how do you not have any wins after elimination? Have the players and coaches quit? That’s worse than sucking when it matters. 

 

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


Also the Rams won a SB in large part due to a combo of years of tanking and stockpiling picks.  

True and there's more than one way to skin a cat, but if you get the right HC and QB (and you'll be a perennial contender).

I do respect the Ravens, Eagles, and 49ers a lot though, especially the Ravens. They seem to have been able to develop complete teams and adapted to significant changes at QB over the years. Patriots and Steelers are model franchises as well but both never seemed to be able to bounce back after their HOF QBs left. 

Ideally, you have a great organization in place to that can identify and develop talent. But, you can turn it around with the right draft picks.

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Also the Rams won a SB in large part due to a combo of years of tanking and stockpiling picks.  
Hmmm ... drafted well to build up a young core of players then topped it off with a trade for an established vet QB (from the NFC North, no less).

Sounds vaguely familiar ... apart from the "winning" bit.

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The Bengals...who with the same coach and GM were had a total of 6 wins combined the 2 years prior. The franchise did not hav a winning record since 2015 either.
But I do agree with the sentiment that this is an outlier (But not an impossibility). If we drafted Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson I do not think that they either of them would be as good as the players they are now, or that our team would be a Super Bowl contender. It is true that a good organization is needed to be a consistent winner.
I was looking back to see which QBs who were highly drafted had gone on to win a Superbowl. The first one I thought of was Eli - who had been retired for several years. Burrow is the most recent example who came close. Stafford was the previous actual winner, though not with his original team.

Mahomes was drafted 10th, which kind of goes against the "tank for the top pick" mantra in my mind. Goff and Wentz came close. Newton from 2011.

But overall - not a huge amount of success picking a QB #1, or even top 5.

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8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No it is utterly stupid in a lost season to win meaningless games that screw you come draft time.

The Jets have proven this time and time and time again.  Those wins are forgotten in a week and come draft time you miss out on far better player in every round.

These meaningless wins never make a culture difference at all.

Case in point drafts that have given us players like GW, and Sauce, however there are also drafts that have given us the Becton's and Zach's.... It's all in who is picking the players, not the position.

Amen brother...

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13 minutes ago, jamesr said:

I was looking back to see which QBs who were highly drafted had gone on to win a Superbowl. The first one I thought of was Eli - who had been retired for several years. Burrow is the most recent example who came close. Stafford was the previous actual winner, though not with his original team.

Mahomes was drafted 10th, which kind of goes against the "tank for the top pick" mantra in my mind. Goff and Wentz came close. Newton from 2011.

But overall - not a huge amount of success picking a QB #1, or even top 5.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Right and the Chiefs, Giants (back then anyway) Eagles with Wentz were well run organizations that lifted up their QB.

Stafford is a great example of someone who was going to be really good no matter how bad the situation, but also proves that you need a good team and situation to be a championship QB.

Would Mahomes have been great without Reid + Chiefs? I think so...would he have been as good and as early in his career? I don't....that team was loaded and the HC is one of the greatest offensive minds.

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9 hours ago, Ulrich said:

I along with many have wanted the Jets to lose this & every season after they were eliminated from playoff contention. To get the highest draft pick possible. 

Look how far that’s gotten us. 

It’s great programs that win. Not where you draft. Good/great programs like the Chiefs, Ravens, Niners, Packers, Pats, Steelers, et al drafted at the end of the first round annually for many years when they’ve been good. Yet they just kept winning. Because their great programs.

Picking high in the draft is fool’s gold. Unless it’s for a legit franchise QB. 

The only time we should be rooting for the Jets to lose is if we’re convinced the current regime is incompetent. This regime seems to check that box. So yes I don’t mind if the Jets lose Sunday because JD & Saleh’s results have been awful and the hotter their seats the better. They either rise to the occasion next season or get gone asap. 

This endless cycle of rooting to lose for a high draft pick is a loser’s game. Instead we can hope the Jets to win Sunday because a light finally went on in this regime’s dim bulb. Otherwise we’ll be back in the exact same place next year. 

 Ha come on. That’s just silly. I mean we would have been just under the spot needed to draft Broderick jones last yr, and JD thought he was still safe swapping 2 spots down with GB. Guy has been huge for Pitt. He was the last of top OTs so JD had to pick a guy we didn’t really need. Maybe why you notice we haven’t been able to pick many premium OL. Becton bust. They had to trade up for AVT. Never want to have to trade up and throw away picks. Let’s look back when Josh mcCown in 2017 over achieved during rebuild year. Jets fought so hard to move out of the top 3, get six overall. Just to give up 3 2nd round picks just to get back to 3 overall again 🙈🤣. Not Have a 2nd in 2019, when star wide outs like dee boo Samuel, AJ brown, and DK metcalf all went. 
 
What kills the jets,  The “ good “ teams that pick late usually have strong offense. Since everyone but the realize, offense wins. So everyone drafts top O talent early ( exceptions especially pass rushers ). Why the good teams can pick a great D player, who was there late because of what side of the ball he plays. 

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26 minutes ago, Hex said:

Who here trusts the Jets to make a good pick in the first round?

Seriously.  If they end up with another player like pre-injury Becton, Sauce, Garrett, JJ or McDonald...we riot.

 

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9 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No it is utterly stupid in a lost season to win meaningless games that screw you come draft time.

The Jets have proven this time and time and time again.  Those wins are forgotten in a week and come draft time you miss out on far better player in every round.

These meaningless wins never make a culture difference at all.

Making dumb picks is why you miss out, not position. Taking Moore over Jovannta Williams was stupid. Picking Becton over Wirths was stupid. Picking McDonald so far looks like another stupid pick. 

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16 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

 Ha come on. That’s just silly. I mean we would have been just under the spot needed to draft Broderick jones last yr, and JD thought he was still safe swapping 2 spots down with GB. Guy has been huge for Pitt. He was the last of top OTs so JD had to pick a guy we didn’t really need. Maybe why you notice we haven’t been able to pick many premium OL. Becton bust. They had to trade up for AVT. Never want to have to trade up and throw away picks. Let’s look back when Josh mcCown in 2017 over achieved during rebuild year. Jets fought so hard to move out of the top 3, get six overall. Just to give up 3 2nd round picks just to get back to 3 overall again 🙈🤣. Not Have a 2nd in 2019, when star wide outs like dee boo Samuel, AJ brown, and DK metcalf all went. 
 
What kills the jets,  The “ good “ teams that pick late usually have strong offense. Since everyone but the realize, offense wins. So everyone drafts top O talent early ( exceptions especially pass rushers ). Why the good teams can pick a great D player, who was there late because of what side of the ball he plays. 

I love this thread.  Everyone pointing to the Steelers like they are some kind of powerhouse.  Can you remember the last time they won a playoff game?  They have a team dietician?  So does everyone else.  They have been notoriously stingy with players for decades.  You think that these teams are good because they "have strong offense?"  The Steelers and the Ravens are the teams we are talking about here.  Are you serious?  The Steelers?  The Ravens have a good O, but that team has historically been built on D and that has not gone away.

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1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said:

I don’t agree. The Jets have had high picks for years and they stink. Also this myth about meaningless wins,  Saleh is something like 2-13 in December.  His predecessors weren’t much better.

Also how do you not have any wins after elimination? Have the players and coaches quit? That’s worse than sucking when it matters. 

 

People will continue to harp on about Saleh / JDs poor win-loss record, then at the same time complain when we win.

Can't have it both ways. :-) 

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4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I love this thread.  Everyone pointing to the Steelers like they are some kind of powerhouse.  Can you remember the last time they won a playoff game?  They have a team dietician?  So does everyone else.  They have been notoriously stingy with players for decades.  You think that these teams are good because they "have strong offense?"  The Steelers and the Ravens are the teams we are talking about here.  Are you serious?  The Steelers?  The Ravens have a good O, but that team has historically been built on D and that has not gone away.

Mike Tomlin has now had 17 consecutive non-losing seasons as a coach. Have the Jets even had 17 in their entire history?

But then I guess we'd want Tomlin fired too.

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