All rookie team......

[Beerfish]

Jets got.....

players on the list.

John Micheal Schmitz over Joe Tippman, drafted 14 picks after Tippman

Byron Young edge rusher for the Rams with 8 sacks, picked #77 in the 3rd round

Addision picked 23 all rookie wr

Anton Harrison OT picked 27th

Douglas borked that drafted terribly bad, just awful.

 

[T0mShane]

Schmitz was awful. 41.4 PFF grade. Gave up five sacks and was a liability in the run game. 

[varjet]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Schmitz was awful. 41.4 PFF grade. Gave up five sacks and was a liability in the run game. 

I agree with this and would rather have Tippman.  
 

But I also agree that JD also missed his other picks. 

[jamesr]

Tippman not starting straight away likely hampered his chances at this "award".

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Jet Nut]

Imagine if the draft was for one season only? 

[Sammybighead]

Yeah, rookie year is meaningless. 

That said, they cannot afford "bpa" method, they must address their need on oline. In retrospect, if they did that last year, Anton Harrison may very well have been part of the solution going forward...

[GangGreened]

22 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Imagine if the draft was for one season only? 

I’d pick the 2022 draft in my imagination, since it’s his only good one thus far. 
 

Schmitz over Tippman is dumb. I wish the coaches would play the younger guys a little sooner.

[bonkertons]

Yeah.....this means nothing to me.  Tippmann >> Schmitz, to this point at least.  Not sure why any Jet fan would feel down about that pick.  I also doubt the Jets gave a **** about how McDonald would be ranked in rookie lists at the end of the year, otherwise they probably would have just thrown him out there for 75% of the snaps to let him get his 7 or 8 sacks, just so dopes can be like "wow what a great rookie season".  They clearly have a strategy in place with their young edge rushers.  We saw it play out with JJ and I'm pretty sure we'll see something similar happen next year with McDonald.  

 

Other than that, Warren looked pretty good in a fill-in role, when this was supposed to be a "sit and learn" year.  Especially when he saw time at LT when Becton was hurt.  I thought that was the best he looked.  Izzy had his moments, and he'll also probably see an increase in workload next year. 

 

McDonald's development will ultimately determine the success of this draft, and we're probably at least a year away from knowing exactly what McDonald is.  

[section314]

Keep in mind , McDonald had 3 sacks in 15% of the snaps. FWIW, last year Thibedeaux had 4.5 in like 70% of the snaps. Players do somehow get better and stronger after their first years, as difficult as it is for many with blinders on to admit.

[PepPep]

10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Douglas borked that drafted terribly bad, just awful.

 

[Beerfish]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Schmitz was awful. 41.4 PFF grade. Gave up five sacks and was a liability in the run game. 

And he beat out tippman.  Didn't we just have a thread telling us all that pff sucked becasue it did not support some jets?

[bonkertons]

20 minutes ago, section314 said:

Keep in mind , McDonald had 3 sacks in 15% of the snaps. FWIW, last year Thibedeaux had 4.5 in like 70% of the snaps. Players do somehow get better and stronger after their first years, as difficult as it is for many with blinders on to admit.

Exactly.  Meanwhile Byron Young was sitting at about 85% of the snaps on D.  Not even JJ this year came close to that.  I believe he was somewhere in the 60s.  It's just not how the Jets operate with their DL.  My guess is McDonald probably sees Huff's totals next year:  40-50% of the snaps.  You'd assume, even without any development, that puts him in the 7 range for sacks.  Oh, and Young plays in a different defense than McDonald.  He's an OLB in a 3-4, if I'm not mistaken.  Not exactly an apples to apples comparison.  

 

Maybe an argument could be made that McDonald didn't see the field because he wasn't good enough to see the field, but that ignores how the Jets do things.  If JJ got 50% of the snaps last year, I could get it.  He didn't, and the only reason he saw more playing time last year than McDonald did this year is because we had worse DL depth last year(we ran it back this year with the same exact group, PLUS McDonald), and JJ is built more as a 3-down DE.  McDonald's body just isn't there yet, and might never be.  

[slimjasi]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

And he beat out tippman.  Didn't we just have a thread telling us all that pff sucked becasue it did not support some jets?

To be fair, he most likely beat out Tippman because the Jets chose to start McGovern at center his year. 
 

Tippman looked pretty good by the end of the year. No idea which guy will be better. 
 

and yes, PFF grades are meaningless  

[Warfish]

It's funny how hyped many on this board get when one of our players win things like "Pepsi Player of the Week" and then how angrily, sarcastically dismissive many of the same folks get when our players lose out on annual awards/notice.

[bonkertons]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's funny how hyped many on this board get when one of our players win things like "Pepsi Player of the Week" and then how angrily, sarcastically dismissive many of the same folks get when our players lose out on annual awards/notice.

When it's used to say "we drafted the wrong guy", yeah I get being dismissive.  

[slimjasi]

10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

 

Douglas borked that drafted terribly bad, just awful.

 

You haven’t figured out yet that assessing a draft after one season is really dumb? 

[TheAustrian]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

You haven’t figured out yet that assessing a draft after one season is really dumb? 

yeah and knowing zach wilson sucks after one year was also really dumb - we get it

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's funny how hyped many on this board get when one of our players win things like "Pepsi Player of the Week" and then how angrily, sarcastically dismissive many of the same folks get when our players lose out on annual awards/notice.

Except, that’s not why most of us are mocking the OP. 
 

he wrote that Douglas “borked” last year’s draft - which, as we know from very recent history (Michael Carter? Jermaine Johnson?), we have no way of actually knowing after one season. 

[slimjasi]

Just now, TheAustrian said:

yeah and knowing zach wilson sucks after one year was also really dumb - we get it

You didn’t “know” - you were guessing like everyone else 

[slimjasi]

53 minutes ago, section314 said:

Players do somehow get better and stronger after their first years, as difficult as it is for many with blinders on to admit.

The same people trashing McDonald were trashing Jermaine Johnson exactly one year ago. 

[T0mShane]

35 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

And he beat out tippman.  Didn't we just have a thread telling us all that pff sucked becasue it did not support some jets?

PFF does OL particularly well, and every team in the NFL and the far majority of D-1 college teams are PFF clients. I’m not sure if you saw many Giants games this year, but Schmitz was objectively awful and every metric backs that up. And get this, pal: he’s three months older than Will McDonald.

[Warfish]

59 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

You haven’t figured out yet that assessing a draft after one season is really dumb? 

Not really.

Players are evaluated constantly.  After one game, one season, many seasons, etc.

Also, their contribution and the circumstances are also evaluated.  Were the players contributors so far or no?  Did we need them to be?  If they were not, were they worth it anyway despite not contributing?  Do they look like future stars?  Future role-players?  Future busts?  Like they'll be worth the cost it took to acquire?  Etc.

IMO anyone who ever posts the words "You can't judge..." is just trying to avoid some thing or another that doesn't look so good and just wants to avoid the entire discussion/criticism at the start.  This is especially true given we're just fans.  Us judging means absolutely nothing.  Be assured, GM's are judging all the time, including "after just one season".

You can always judge, i.e. evaluate.  And you SHOULD always be judging.  Evaluation, of players, coaches, front offices, organizations, is a constant process, not a one-and-done.  As long as you rightfully and generally avoid forward looking definitive statements i.e. "that guy will never..." type evaluations, judging is just fine, and can and is done before they ever get drafted, and at every moment after they're drafted too.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, bonkertons said:

When it's used to say "we drafted the wrong guy", yeah I get being dismissive.  

Why?  Is the very idea that we may have drafted "the wrong guy", generally, such an impossibility as to be unworthy of discussion?

I don't think we drafted the "wrong guy" in Tippy at this point, but there is nothing wrong with discussion about it in my book.

[OilfieldJet]

3 hours ago, bonkertons said:

Yeah.....this means nothing to me.  Tippmann >> Schmitz, to this point at least.  Not sure why any Jet fan would feel down about that pick.  I also doubt the Jets gave a **** about how McDonald would be ranked in rookie lists at the end of the year, otherwise they probably would have just thrown him out there for 75% of the snaps to let him get his 7 or 8 sacks, just so dopes can be like "wow what a great rookie season".  They clearly have a strategy in place with their young edge rushers.  We saw it play out with JJ and I'm pretty sure we'll see something similar happen next year with McDonald.  

 

Other than that, Warren looked pretty good in a fill-in role, when this was supposed to be a "sit and learn" year.  Especially when he saw time at LT when Becton was hurt.  I thought that was the best he looked.  Izzy had his moments, and he'll also probably see an increase in workload next year. 

 

McDonald's development will ultimately determine the success of this draft, and we're probably at least a year away from knowing exactly what McDonald is.  

It's great that the Jets have "They clearly have a strategy in place with their young edge rushers". The problem is that's one unit on the team. 

[THE BARON]

11 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Jets got.....

players on the list.

John Micheal Schmitz over Joe Tippman, drafted 14 picks after Tippman

Byron Young edge rusher for the Rams with 8 sacks, picked #77 in the 3rd round

Addision picked 23 all rookie wr

Anton Harrison OT picked 27th

Douglas borked that drafted terribly bad, just awful.

 

all but tipp

[OilfieldJet]

55 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The same people trashing McDonald were trashing Jermaine Johnson exactly one year ago. 

Maybe. McDonald may become a solid player, it's not him I have an issue with, it's the Jet's using their 1st round pick on a part time, pass rusher who is a project.

[slimjasi]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Not really.

Players are evaluated constantly.  After one game, one season, many seasons, etc.

Also, their contribution and the circumstances are also evaluated.  Were the players contributors so far or no?  Did we need them to be?  If they were not, were they worth it anyway despite not contributing?  Do they look like future stars?  Future role-players?  Future busts?  Like they'll be worth the cost it took to acquire?  Etc.

IMO anyone who ever posts the words "You can't judge..." is just trying to avoid some thing or another that doesn't look so good and just wants to avoid the entire discussion/criticism at the start.  This is especially true given we're just fans.  Us judging means absolutely nothing.  Be assured, GM's are judging all the time, including "after just one season".

You can always judge, i.e. evaluate.  And you SHOULD always be judging.  Evaluation, of players, coaches, front offices, organizations, is a constant process, not a one-and-done.  As long as you rightfully and generally avoid forward looking definitive statements i.e. "that guy will never..." type evaluations, judging is just fine, and can and is done before they ever get drafted, and at every moment after they're drafted too.

Hmm. Disagree.

History tells us that the statement  “GM X messed up that draft” after only one season is definitively shortsighted. Some young players get better, while others fade after quick starts. 
 

You need to wait multiple seasons to really know how well a team did in a given draft. 

[varjet]

41 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

PFF does OL particularly well, and every team in the NFL and the far majority of D-1 college teams are PFF clients. I’m not sure if you saw many Giants games this year, but Schmitz was objectively awful and every metric backs that up. And get this, pal: he’s three months older than Will McDonald.

Tippman was PFF 61, FWIW.  Better than JMS by quite a bit.  

I think Tippman can be solid at the position we put him at, but the Jets are not helping their starters by moving them around.  Reserves are meant to be versatile.  Starters should try and focus on one position, at least L and R.  

[Warfish]

51 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The same people trashing McDonald were trashing Jermaine Johnson exactly one year ago. 

You say that like JJ was an All-Pro star player above any evaluation.

He's a middle of the pack rotational edge rusher.  So far, of course.

His 7.5 sacks was good for a tie for 46th in the NFL in 2023.

And he played only 66% of our Defensive snaps.

And he was materially less productive that our own UDFA Huff on the same line doing the same job, despite Huff only playing 42% of our snaps.

These are facts, not "trashing".  JJ is better than his absentee rookie year, absolutely, but he's as yet not proven his 1st round pick status was appropriate or warranted with his play and production at the NFL level.

 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, OilfieldJet said:

Maybe. McDonald may become a solid player, it's not him I have an issue with, it's the Jet's using their 1st round pick on a part time, pass rusher who is a project.

Fair - and that’s a more specific argument that I can respect. 
 

but the notion that anyone knows how good or bad last year’s draft class was after one season is sublime silliness. 

[section314]

53 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The same people trashing McDonald were trashing Jermaine Johnson exactly one year ago. 

JJ is an incredibly gifted athlete. He blocked a punt that led to a score and his deflected pass that he returned for a TD vs the Browns is a play not many guys could make. That’s why when Saleh mentioned towards the end that if McDonald attacks the offseason like JJ did last year then the sky’s the limit for him. He was obviously referring to his athleticism and I took it to mean he feels McDonald has even more ability. I am excited to see him in his second season.

[JetsFanatic]

3 hours ago, bonkertons said:

Yeah.....this means nothing to me.  Tippmann >> Schmitz, to this point at least.  Not sure why any Jet fan would feel down about that pick.  I also doubt the Jets gave a **** about how McDonald would be ranked in rookie lists at the end of the year, otherwise they probably would have just thrown him out there for 75% of the snaps to let him get his 7 or 8 sacks, just so dopes can be like "wow what a great rookie season".  They clearly have a strategy in place with their young edge rushers.  We saw it play out with JJ and I'm pretty sure we'll see something similar happen next year with McDonald.  

 

Other than that, Warren looked pretty good in a fill-in role, when this was supposed to be a "sit and learn" year.  Especially when he saw time at LT when Becton was hurt.  I thought that was the best he looked.  Izzy had his moments, and he'll also probably see an increase in workload next year. 

 

McDonald's development will ultimately determine the success of this draft, and we're probably at least a year away from knowing exactly what McDonald is.  

Excellent points. McDonald showed good form when he played. 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

You say that like JJ was an All-Pro star player above any evaluation. 

Nope - I say that as someone who witnessed Jermaine Johnson get much better from year 1 to year 2 - as many players do  

I’m not really sure what his ceiling is, nor do I think it’s particularly relevant to my point.

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

And he was materially less productive that our own UDFA Huff on the same line doing the same job, despite Huff only playing 42% of our snaps.

 

“Materially less productive” isn’t quite correct, or at least not specific enough. He had fewer SACkS than Huff, that is true. However, Johnson also had more tackles and more tackles for loss.  
 

yes - he played more snaps than Huff - rightly or wrongly, the jets are of the opinion that JJ is more of an every down player than Huff is. I fear they could be wrong, but that’s part of their evaluation. We’ll have to see how Huff does in an expanded role to really know one way or another. 
 

 

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 but he's as yet not proven his 1st round pick status was appropriate or warranted with his play and production at the NFL level.

 

Proven? Certainly not. But that’s kinda my point - hard for a guy to prove things one way or another in that regard after only 2 seasons. Time will tell. 
 

What I would say is that he is on a trajectory that makes me think he has a good chance to eventually prove he was worth a late 1st round pick (26th overall, I believe) when all is said and done. Like I said, time will tell. 

[slimjasi]

27 minutes ago, section314 said:

JJ is an incredibly gifted athlete. He blocked a punt that led to a score and his deflected pass that he returned for a TD vs the Browns is a play not many guys could make. That’s why when Saleh mentioned towards the end that if McDonald attacks the offseason like JJ did last year then the sky’s the limit for him. He was obviously referring to his athleticism and I took it to mean he feels McDonald has even more ability. I am excited to see him in his second season.

I am, too. We have some nice young edge talent. I’m still sick over Huff, however. It’s really a shame that we will probably lose him for nothing. 

[section314]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I am, too. We have some nice young edge talent. I’m still sick over Huff, however. It’s really a shame that we will probably lose him for nothing. 

IDK about that. Have to figure that pick#10 will be either OL or WR and FA will also add to Offense to satisfy AR. Paying Huff might be the bone they throw to the D.