Beginning of the end for Bonds

[Bugg]

Let me give you a professional take on this-the feds don't empanel a grand jury to investigate perjury lightly. Bonds is about to face something much worse than a drunk fan throwing toy syringes his way.

"Mr. Bonds-on said date under oath were you asked these questions and did you give these answers? Can you explain ..." It will not be pretty. He would have been much better served to throw himself on the sword like Giambi and Sheffield did.

He better stop worrying about passing Babe Ruth or challenging hank Aaron. Those things won't be easy to do while he's in jail.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2407968

Baseball isn't the only organization investigating Barry Bonds.

CNN reported Thursday that the federal government is investigating whether Bonds committed perjury when he testified during his grand jury testimony in the BALCO case in 2003.

Multiple sources told CNN that a federal grand jury has been hearing evidence for more than a month about whether Bonds perjured himself during his Dec. 4, 2003, testimony. The U.S. attorney's office in San Francisco would neither confirm nor deny to CNN that a grand jury is sitting, and Bonds' lawyers told CNN that they were unaware a grand jury is convened.

The Giants declined to comment on the CNN report to ESPN's Colleen Dominguez on Thursday night. Baseball commissioner Bud Selig also had no comment.

A number of professional athletes were given immunity from prosecution in exchange for their truthful testimony. They were also told that if it was later discovered they had lied, they would be prosecuted.

Bonds, who testified before a San Francisco federal grand jury looking into steroid use by top athletes, has repeatedly denied knowingly using performance-enhancing drugs.

Two books being released this spring accuse the Giants slugger of using steroids, human growth hormone and insulin for at least five seasons beginning in 1998 -- "Game of Shadows," written by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters, and "Love Me, Hate Me: Barry Bonds and the Making of an Antihero" by Jeff Pearlman. Baseball did not test for performance-enhancing substances until after the 2002 season.

BALCO founder Victor Conte insisted in March that he never gave performance-enhancing drugs to Bonds and that "Game of Shadows" is "full of outright lies."

Conte spoke to The Associated Press outside his San Mateo home hours after his release from prison, where he spent four months after pleading guilty to orchestrating an illegal steroids distribution scheme that allegedly involved many high-profile athletes, including Bonds.

Asked whether he gave Bonds performance-enhancing drugs, Conte said: "No, I did not."

"Game of Shadows" chronicles the founding of the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative and details alleged extensive steroid use by Bonds and other baseball stars. Baseball commissioner Bud Selig announced in March that former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell will lead an investigation into the claims.

"I plan to provide evidence in the near future to prove that much of what is written in the book is untrue," Conte told the AP. He declined to list specific inaccuracies or what evidence he would provide but said the book is "about the character assassination of Barry Bonds and myself."

"It's my opinion that the two writers of the book have a disease called fabrication-itis," Conte said, holding a copy of "Game of Shadows" as he stood on his front steps.

Conte founded and managed the Burlingame-based BALCO, where the steroids were sold. He pleaded guilty to money laundering and a steroid distribution charge, and dozens of other charges were dropped as part of his plea deal.

Conte was sentenced in October to four months in prison and four months' home confinement in a plea deal with federal prosecutors.

Baseball investigators could seek to interview Conte about steroid use in the game.

Bonds, who has denied using steroids, was the most prominent athlete linked to BALCO. He testified in December 2003 to the federal grand jury investigating the case but has not been charged with a crime.

Other baseball players linked to BALCO include New York Yankees stars Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield.

Olympic track and field stars Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery and former NFL player Bill Romanowski were also called to testify in front of the grand jury. No athletes were charged in the scheme.

Greg Anderson, Bonds' personal trainer, was sentenced to three months behind bars and an additional three months of home confinement after pleading guilty to money laundering and a steroid distribution charge.

BALCO vice president James Valente was sentenced to three years' probation, and track coach Remi Korchemny received a year of probation.

Meanwhile, baseball star Rafael Palmeiro will not be prosecuted on perjury charges after lawmakers said there isn't enough evidence to prove he lied when he told Congress under oath that he had "never used steroids" -- six weeks before failing a steroid test.

The investigation did not conclude whether the former Baltimore Orioles slugger had actually ever used performance-enhancing substances prior to his testimony before the House Government Reform Committee.

"We couldn't find any evidence of steroid use prior to his testimony," Chairman Tom Davis, R-Va., said in releasing a 44-page report. "That's not a finding of innocence, but it's a finding that we could not substantiate perjury."

At issue was Palmeiro's statement at a March 17 hearing: "I have never used steroids. Period." On May 4, he failed a Major League Baseball drug test, coming up positive for an anabolic steroid. In August, shortly after baseball suspended Palmeiro for 10 days, Davis said Congress would look into whether the player committed perjury.

"We have a responsibility, an obligation, to investigate it, and that's what we've done," Davis said during a news conference in the same hearing room where Palmeiro had testified.

Davis said the steroid for which Palmeiro tested positive is detectable for three to four weeks, shorter than the gap between his failed test and Capitol Hill appearance, and therefore "could not have been in his system the day he testified."

"We were not concerned with why he tested positive or how he tested positive except for how that related to his testimony," Davis added.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2407968

[AFJF]

It was nice to see Bonds go in to his home run trot yesterday on a ball that was caught on the warning track.

[GimmeShelter]

When did Sheffield throw himself on the sword?

[SouthernJet]

It was nice to see Bonds go in to his home run trot yesterday on a ball that was caught on the warning track.

hahaha,, in the past with the juice he knew that connection was a HR,,he has to get used to legal physics all over again

[SouthernJet]

no escaping Grand Jury indictment,,no escape,,its a arrest,,he will post bond etc, and trial will be after season,, but MLB will have to take some action,,,

[BigJermaineFromQnz]

I dislike Bonds and I hate the fact that him and others used steroids to cheat, but honestly this is going way too far. The amount of abuse this guy takes in the media is simply unreal, it's like he's public enemy #1 right now.

The bottom line is: Enough is Enough

The media needs to lay off for a little while, let Selig do his little investigation, if they find out for fact that he did steroids, they can decide to either throw him out of baseball, nullify his records or whatever, but to get the Federal government involved is ridiculous.

[vanDoug]

It was nice to see Bonds go in to his home run trot yesterday on a ball that was caught on the warning track.

Just saw that this morning.

Excellent!!!!

Don't cry, Barry.

[Bugg]

Jermaine-

I'll agree this much-Bonds is a complete jerk. It will be shame if this cheater passes Ruth and Aaron.

But for the feds to hold hearings and convene a grand jury for the express purpose of embarrassing one guy is a complete waste of tax dollars. Really-let me understand-we have Al Qaeda poised daily to destroy this country and kill thousands. And yet FBI agents who could be working on that are instead detailed to investigate if this egomaniac shot roids in his a$$? Doesn't seem right or appropriate. It's disgraceful that politcians looking to make a name fro themselves see this as a priority.

And I'm tired of all that "role model" crap. If anyone is holding up Barry Bonds as one or raising their kids based on the beahvior of MLB players, they're already failures as parents.

[BigJermaineFromQnz]

Jermaine-

I'll agree this much-Bonds is a complete jerk. It will be shame if this cheater passes Ruth and Aaron.

But for the feds to hold hearings and convene a grand jury for the express purpose of embarrassing one guy is a complete waste of tax dollars. Really-let me understand-we have Al Qaeda poised daily to destroy this country and kill thousands. And yet FBI agents who could be working on that are instead detailed to investigate if this egomaniac shot roids in his a$$? Doesn't seem right or appropriate. It's disgraceful that politcians looking to make a name fro themselves see this as a priority.

And I'm tired of all that "role model" crap. If anyone is holding up Barry Bonds as one or raising their kids based on the beahvior of MLB players, they're already failures as parents.

No you are completely right.

I would not want to see him pass Aaron but Ruth is alright. This is mainly because A: I am not a Yankee's fan... Ruth's legacy really means little to me... B: Ruth did it in an era when only whites were allowed to play... I know how much of a beast he was and that he still tore up the barnstorming games, but there is testimony from Ruth himself that Satchel Paige, for example, owned the hell out of him in barnstorming games.

Anyway though, the guy is a complete and total jerk, but to actually start talking about THROWING HIM IN JAIL is really insane.

[SouthernJet]

No you are completely right.

I would not want to see him pass Aaron but Ruth is alright. This is mainly because A: I am not a Yankee's fan... Ruth's legacy really means little to me... B: Ruth did it in an era when only whites were allowed to play... I know how much of a beast he was and that he still tore up the barnstorming games, but there is testimony from Ruth himself that Satchel Paige, for example, owned the hell out of him in barnstorming games.

Anyway though, the guy is a complete and total jerk, but to actually start talking about THROWING HIM IN JAIL is really insane.

so its OK to cheat and pass a white guy but not a black guy?

if you cheat you shouldnt pass anyone, regardless of non-black inclusion before 1950s,,

a cheater is a cheater,,by saying OK to pass Ruth you just add to sterotype that black America wants to be a separate society and not included in mainstream mores.

[Preston Howley III]

Ruth's legacy really means little to me... B: Ruth did it in an era when only whites were allowed to play.

Yeah, and there was like, 8 teams.

[Blackout]

No you are completely right.

I would not want to see him pass Aaron but Ruth is alright. This is mainly because A: I am not a Yankee's fan... Ruth's legacy really means little to me... B: Ruth did it in an era when only whites were allowed to play... I know how much of a beast he was and that he still tore up the barnstorming games, but there is testimony from Ruth himself that Satchel Paige, for example, owned the hell out of him in barnstorming games.

you have Ruth confused with Ted Williams, so next time before you form opinions on someone, get your facts straight.

the only known at-bat between Ruth and Paige was told in an interview by Buck O'neil on PBS:

Q: Is there one moment in all of baseball you wish you could have seen?

A: I wish I could have been there when Babe Ruth pointed and hit the ball out of the ballpark in the 1932 World Series. I wish I could have seen that. But I did see something I admired just about as much, with Satchel Paige and Babe Ruth. This was in Chicago, after Ruth came out of the major leagues. He was barnstorming, playing with different teams, and he played us. Satchel was pitching and Ruth was hitting. Satchel threw Ruth the ball and Ruth hit the ball, must have been 500 feet, off of Satchel. Satchel looked at Ruth all the way around the bases and when Ruth got to home plate, you know who shook his hand? Satchel Paige shook Ruth's hand at home plate.

They stopped the game and waited, he and Satchel talking, until the kid went out, got the ball, brought it back and Satchel had Babe Ruth autograph that ball for him. That was some kind of moment.

owned.

[Smizzy]

No you are completely right.

I would not want to see him pass Aaron but Ruth is alright. This is mainly because A: I am not a Yankee's fan... Ruth's legacy really means little to me... B: Ruth did it in an era when only whites were allowed to play... I know how much of a beast he was and that he still tore up the barnstorming games, but there is testimony from Ruth himself that Satchel Paige, for example, owned the hell out of him in barnstorming games.

Anyway though, the guy is a complete and total jerk, but to actually start talking about THROWING HIM IN JAIL is really insane.

Babe Ruth also played in an era when the baseballs were soft,the bats were softer and the fence was 50 ft further back.

[Blackout]

Babe Ruth also played in an era when the baseballs were soft,the bats were softer and the fence was 50 ft further back.

not to mention Ruth was the best home run hitter in baseball in the dead ball era too

[NIGHT STALKER]

No you are completely right.

I would not want to see him pass Aaron but Ruth is alright. This is mainly because A: I am not a Yankee's fan... Ruth's legacy really means little to me... B: Ruth did it in an era when only whites were allowed to play... I know how much of a beast he was and that he still tore up the barnstorming games, but there is testimony from Ruth himself that Satchel Paige, for example, owned the hell out of him in barnstorming games.

Anyway though, the guy is a complete and total jerk, but to actually start talking about THROWING HIM IN JAIL is really insane.

I can't even respond to this post...has to be one of the worst posts I've read in this forum. Seriously dude, do you think about what you're going to post before you hit the click button?

[BigJermaineFromQnz]

I can't even respond to this post...has to be one of the worst posts I've read in this forum. Seriously dude, do you think about what you're going to post before you hit the click button?

yeah, I thought about it, I DO NOT GIVE A CRAP ABOUT RUTH...

this guy played like 3 times my lifetime ago, he played in a completely messed up era where ONLY WHITES WERE ALLOWED TO PLAY. THAT IN ITSELF MAKES HIS RECORD MORE MEANINGLESS.

I dont care about bonds or like him, but I would not think twice if he broke Ruth's record... I just hope he does not break Aaron's record, because he cheated.

As far as Babe Ruth, he "cheated" too, because of the race rules back then.

End of story.

[Preston Howley III]

yeah, I thought about it, I DO NOT GIVE A CRAP ABOUT RUTH...

this guy played like 3 times my lifetime ago, he played in a completely messed up era where ONLY WHITES WERE ALLOWED TO PLAY. THAT IN ITSELF MAKES HIS RECORD MORE MEANINGLESS.

I dont care about bonds or like him, but I would not think twice if he broke Ruth's record... I just hope he does not break Aaron's record, because he cheated.

As far as Babe Ruth, he "cheated" too, because of the race rules back then.

End of story.

Jermaine, there were far fewer teams in Ruth's era. Therefore,the talent level was far more concentrated than it is now. You state that blacks were excluded from playing-

There were literally hundreds of white ballplayers that also were excluded from playing, simply because there were not enough teams for them to play on. Today, both white, black and hispanic players have a much easier time transitioning to MLB because of the amount of teams, and the institional infrastructure that each team provides.

The players of that era were elite.

You should read a book about the Negro league; there is one by Neil Lanctot that would be an excellent start to learn about the true socio-economic conditions of that time.

In 1949, with Jackie Robinson's signing with the Dodgers, it would be several years later before a dozen or so more black players were recruited out of the Negro league. That small attrition lead to the downfall of the Negro league-

And destroyed what was a stabilizing institution in black america. Not all the players transitioned over... they simply were not good enough. They were screwed.

When people say "Josh Gibson hit more homers than Ruth" you have to realize he did it against inferior pitching. The big lie is that all those pitchers were pitching in the Negro League simply because they were black, when the reality of it is that they were fortunate enough there was a league exclusively for blacks that they could compete in.

They were not all Satchell Paige. That is ridiculous to assume that. And Paige did all right for himself, he probably amassed more money as a freelance ball player than he would have made in MLB. Remember, many white ball players were underpaid and legally bound to contracts- black players were not.

So before you start spouting off on cue all that political correct pschobabble that some neurotic witch of a professor drilled into your head at community college, get a few facts together.

[NorthCoastJetsFan]

I dislike Bonds and I hate the fact that him and others used steroids to cheat, but honestly this is going way too far. The amount of abuse this guy takes in the media is simply unreal, it's like he's public enemy #1 right now.

The bottom line is: Enough is Enough

The media needs to lay off for a little while, let Selig do his little investigation, if they find out for fact that he did steroids, they can decide to either throw him out of baseball, nullify his records or whatever, but to get the Federal government involved is ridiculous.

I can't believe that you actually think that this whole thing is an attempt to preserve anyone's legacy.

The reason the Feds are involved is because the Balco case was a Federal prosecution and that this dodo probably lied under oath to a Federal grand jury. I say "probably" because I'm trying to maintain an innocent until proven guilty attitude.

Lying under oath usually gets prosecuting attorneys a tad upset.

Bonds deserves whatever he gets. His attitude and jealousy are upstaging his talent level, which was great enough that he didn't need steroids. Like it or not, his current performance level, whether it's because of lack of steroids, or because of age, is casting doubt on all of his achievements.

[Maxman]

I was going to reply to Jermaine's last post. Then I thought about it and said, why bother?

You guys know what I am talking about right?

[Bugg]

Jermaine-

Ruth was the best homerun hitter, hitter and lefty pitcher of his era-period.

I understand where you are coming from, but don't blame Ruth for rules he didn't make. It was a different and not altogether enlightened time. But that wasn't Ruth's making. He barnstormed wtih anyone who would make him a buck, black or white.Ruth himself was taunted and mocked and his parentage "questioned", and not politely, since he was from Baltimore and had been in an orphanages. By all accounts thoguh he wasn't a bigot at all like Cobb; in fact quite the opposite.

[JetsMan57]

Babe Ruth also played in an era when the baseballs were soft,the bats were softer and the fence was 50 ft further back.

And the mounds were higher.

[vanDoug]

Yeah.

And I had to walk 5 miles in the snow to get to school and back.

Uphill both ways.

[Preston Howley III]

Jermaine-

Ruth was the best homerun hitter, hitter and lefty pitcher of his era-period.

I understand where you are coming from, but don't blame Ruth for rules he didn't make. It was a different and not altogether enlightened time. But that wasn't Ruth's making. He barnstormed wtih anyone who would make him a buck, black or white.Ruth himself was taunted and mocked and his parentage "questioned", and not politely, since he was from Baltimore and had been in an orphanages. By all accounts thoguh he wasn't a bigot at all like Cobb; in fact quite the opposite.

No doubt, Bugg.

These kids need to get the story straight. Maybe Jermaine would like to take a look at the major league rosters during Ruth's era and pick out every single player that would not be on a roster if he had to compete with blacks. You'd come up with a dozen guys, maybe. It's not a coincidence that expansion went arm and arm with integration. Same for the Hispanic players a generation later. After WW II and Harry Truman forced integration into the military (a transition that went off smoothly, all things considered), it was only a matter of time before institutional segregation would go the way of the dinosaur.

The ugly truth that the PC witches and history revisionists fail to ever bring up is that, by and large, the opponents of MLB integration were the Negro League players and owners themselves. They knew it was lights out the moment it became a feeding frenzy of their best players.

In any event, to hold Ruth responsible for institutional segragation, or to suggest his stats are meaningless because blacks didn't play in his era, is complete ignorance. These guys today take steroids, bat against triple A pitching, and have many technological advantages.

Guys like Ruth and Mantle played drunk.

Bonds is a great hitter. But he's a scumbag and a cheater. He has zero redeeming qualities as a human being. If he wants to turn this into a race issue (and I think he already has, tenfold), who cares? I've listened to the boy who cried wolf my whole life. And I know that their are people who defend him solely based on race. To me they're the ones that are racist. Because anybody can see, black or white, the guy is a total POS. Just an arrogant, no fun, dckbag. To stick up for him just because you're black, and he's black, is just plain wrong. It would be no different if I went around telling everybody Jeffrey Skilling is an OK guy. You don't see that, though. You don't see white people en masse cheering in the streets and celebrating because Jon Benet Ramsey's parents got away with murder in cold blood. But you saw that with blacks when OJ's verdict was read not guilty. Weird. I don't understand it and I don't want to understand it, any more than I want to understand other pathologies like bestiality or bulemia.

It all falls on deaf ears. These maniacal types of people can't drop dead fast enough as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, they just keep on breeding. And guys like me and you have to, in some sick, twisted, and depraved Alice in Wonderland alternative universe, keep getting hustled and guilt tripped and made to feel like somehow we are responsible for all of this arrested development. Barry Bonds has enjoyed every single luxury that this great nation has had to offer, and yet he's oppressed. And -get this- I'm his oppressor.

You can't make this sht up.

[BigJermaineFromQnz]

No doubt, Bugg.

These kids need to get the story straight. Maybe Jermaine would like to take a look at the major league rosters during Ruth's era and pick out every single player that would not be on a roster if he had to compete with blacks. You'd come up with a dozen guys, maybe. It's not a coincidence that expansion went arm and arm with integration. Same for the Hispanic players a generation later. After WW II and Harry Truman forced integration into the military (a transition that went off smoothly, all things considered), it was only a matter of time before institutional segregation would go the way of the dinosaur.

The ugly truth that the PC witches and history revisionists fail to ever bring up is that, by and large, the opponents of MLB integration were the Negro League players and owners themselves. They knew it was lights out the moment it became a feeding frenzy of their best players.

In any event, to hold Ruth responsible for institutional segragation, or to suggest his stats are meaningless because blacks didn't play in his era, is complete ignorance. These guys today take steroids, bat against triple A pitching, and have many technological advantages.

Guys like Ruth and Mantle played drunk.

Bonds is a great hitter. But he's a scumbag and a cheater. He has zero redeeming qualities as a human being. If he wants to turn this into a race issue (and I think he already has, tenfold), who cares? I've listened to the boy who cried wolf my whole life. And I know that their are people who defend him solely based on race. To me they're the ones that are racist. Because anybody can see, black or white, the guy is a total POS. Just an arrogant, no fun, dckbag.

It falls on deaf ears. I hope he drops dead.

Barry Bonds is a huge piece of trash... I agree... this guy is such a scumbag he forced his girl to get breast implants??? AND LATER PHYSICALLY ASSAULTED HER?

whatever, all i'm saying is this... I understand one of the greatest things about sports is that everyone who is a fan respects the past players. I have no doubt that Ruth was unbelievably talented, but the era in which he played was so different that the numbers dont even make sense to really talk about.

[Preston Howley III]

Barry Bonds is a huge piece of trash... I agree... this guy is such a scumbag he forced his girl to get breast implants??? AND LATER PHYSICALLY ASSAULTED HER?

whatever, all i'm saying is this... I understand one of the greatest things about sports is that everyone who is a fan respects the past players. I have no doubt that Ruth was unbelievably talented, but the era in which he played was so different that the numbers dont even make sense to really talk about.

Jermaine-

Between the time Ruth hit 50+ HR's and Cecil Fielder hitting 50 + HR's, how many guys did it in how many years? A dozen? But in the past ten years, more guys have done it than did it in the fifty preceding years. How can you reconcile that (or attribute Ruths success to a -what was that word Bryant Gumball used- paucity of blacks in MLB)?

Ruth's era wasn't different from the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's or 80's.

It's Bonds era (the 90's) that is different. FRAUDENTLY DIFFERENT.

[Blackout]

plus Ruth was a damn good pitcher too

[NIGHT STALKER]

No doubt, Bugg.

These kids need to get the story straight. Maybe Jermaine would like to take a look at the major league rosters during Ruth's era and pick out every single player that would not be on a roster if he had to compete with blacks. You'd come up with a dozen guys, maybe. It's not a coincidence that expansion went arm and arm with integration. Same for the Hispanic players a generation later. After WW II and Harry Truman forced integration into the military (a transition that went off smoothly, all things considered), it was only a matter of time before institutional segregation would go the way of the dinosaur.

The ugly truth that the PC witches and history revisionists fail to ever bring up is that, by and large, the opponents of MLB integration were the Negro League players and owners themselves. They knew it was lights out the moment it became a feeding frenzy of their best players.

In any event, to hold Ruth responsible for institutional segragation, or to suggest his stats are meaningless because blacks didn't play in his era, is complete ignorance. These guys today take steroids, bat against triple A pitching, and have many technological advantages.

Guys like Ruth and Mantle played drunk.

Bonds is a great hitter. But he's a scumbag and a cheater. He has zero redeeming qualities as a human being. If he wants to turn this into a race issue (and I think he already has, tenfold), who cares? I've listened to the boy who cried wolf my whole life. And I know that their are people who defend him solely based on race. To me they're the ones that are racist. Because anybody can see, black or white, the guy is a total POS. Just an arrogant, no fun, dckbag. To stick up for him just because you're black, and he's black, is just plain wrong. It would be no different if I went around telling everybody Jeffrey Skilling is an OK guy. You don't see that, though. You don't see white people en masse cheering in the streets and celebrating because Jon Benet Ramsey's parents got away with murder in cold blood. But you saw that with blacks when OJ's verdict was read not guilty. Weird. I don't understand it and I don't want to understand it, any more than I want to understand other pathologies like bestiality or bulemia.

It all falls on deaf ears. These maniacal types of people can't drop dead fast enough as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, they just keep on breeding. And guys like me and you have to, in some sick, twisted, and depraved Alice in Wonderland alternative universe, keep getting hustled and guilt tripped and made to feel like somehow we are responsible for all of this arrested development. Barry Bonds has enjoyed every single luxury that this great nation has had to offer, and yet he's oppressed. And -get this- I'm his oppressor.

You can't make this sht up.

Moses, good read, but I have to disagree with you 100% on Mantle playing drunk. That's Billy Crystal stuff in the movie '61 to sell his film. Even Yogi Berra will tell you that Mickey didn't party any harder than the rest of them.

Mantle became an alcoholic after his playing days, there's no doubt about that. No human being could play the game drunk with 90+ balls coming at you...try it some time.

I would love one day to write Billy Crystal and tell him what a disservice he did by dramatizing the character of Mantle in the film...especially coming from a so called "huge Yankee fan"...but, anything to make a buck I guess.

I had the privilege of meeting Mick several times before 1966 and no way was this guy drunk...this, after games that were played. My uncle had a press pass in those days I got to see many of the players up close and personal.

[Preston Howley III]

Moses, good read, but I have to disagree with you 100% on Mantle playing drunk. That's Billy Crystal stuff in the movie '61 to sell his film. Even Yogi Berra will tell you that Mickey didn't party any harder than the rest of them.

Mantle became an alcoholic after his playing days, there's no doubt about that. No human being could play the game drunk with 90+ balls coming at you...try it some time.

I would love one day to write Billy Crystal and tell him what a disservice he did by dramatizing the character of Mantle in the film...especially coming from a so called "huge Yankee fan"...but, anything to make a buck I guess.

I had the privilege of meeting Mick several times before 1966 and no way was this guy drunk...this, after games that were played. My uncle had a press pass in those days I got to see many of the players up close and personal.

I hear ya. I was simply engaging in hyperbole.

This Barry Bonds just gets on my fcking nerves. The guy is a total POS. I'm just completely fed up with this BS. Enough. Nobody cares what color you are, nobody is out to get you, fly straight, don't be a scumbag and you'll be fine. Don't obsess over your "race" and then project whatever on me. I DON'T GIVE A FCK.

Is that asking too much? Is it?

[Preston Howley III]

Seriously, I just wanna use Barry Bonds for a pinyata. He's a POS. Total scumbag.

[NIGHT STALKER]

I hear ya. I was simply engaging in hyperbole.

This Barry Bonds just gets on my fcking nerves. The guy is a total POS. I'm just completely fed up with this BS. Enough. Nobody cares what color you are, nobody is out to get you, fly straight, don't be a scumbag and you'll be fine. Don't obsess over your "race" and then project whatever on me. I DON'T GIVE A FCK.

Is that asking too much? Is it?

No Moses, it's not! It's a shame where a player or better yet, in everyday life can't accept the fact that they are doing or did something wrong without the race card coming up. Strange, but back in the day when I was in the military, and I'm talking in the late 60's, you could approach anyone regardless of color, religion, or what have you and tell them they were doing something wrong without fear of repercussion or some hidden agenda.

But, that's the world we live in nowadays...you have to walk on eggs and that's too bad...I thought this country had come a long way. We seem to be regressing in a lot of ways.

[BigJermaineFromQnz]

But, that's the world we live in nowadays...you have to walk on eggs and that's too bad...I thought this country had come a long way. We seem to be regressing in a lot of ways.

maybe because it's only been 40 years since legalized segregation?

[Preston Howley III]

We seem to be regressing in a lot of ways.

Yeah, but you know what? I don't give a fck. I've really had it. I really have. This nonsense at Duke University, Barry Bonds, these morons who chased the Jewish kid into the street he gets hit by a car, the latest crap with that dingbat whatshername oh yeah mckinney-

Enough. Just go fck yourselves. Please. Have a nice day, but by all means go fck yourselves.

I don't want to hear it no more. Get over it. See a doctor, have the stick removed from your *ss, whatever. Fcking dip**** motherf**ers.

[stormshadow19]

Yeah, but you know what? I don't give a fck. I've really had it. I really have. This nonsense at Duke University, Barry Bonds, these morons who chased the Jewish kid into the street he gets hit by a car, the latest crap with that dingbat whatshername oh yeah mckinney-

Enough. Just go fck yourselves. Please. Have a nice day, but by all means go fck yourselves.

I don't want to hear it no more. Get over it. See a doctor, have the stick removed from your *ss, whatever. Fcking dip**** motherf**ers.

JM, please, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

[Preston Howley III]

And don't even get me started on that c**ksmoker Jim McGreevey who had Amiri Baraka the state poet laureate or some such sht.

Rape the white girls. Rape their fathers.

Real nice, huh? A regular Shakespeare. Fcking *sshole.

[NIGHT STALKER]

maybe because it's only been 40 years since legalized segregation?

I don't want to hear that **** when these ****s are making millions upon millions of dollars...like Moses says, **** 'em!