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A defense of Keith Carter, Nathaniel Hackett, and Todd Downing

PaulHolmes1962

By PaulHolmes1962
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PaulHolmes1962

PaulHolmes1962

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A lot of fans listen to sensationalists like Joe Caporoso, Jake Asman, and Matt O’Leary. 
 

Truth is last 3 games with Siemian under center Jets offense was pretty good. Averaged close to 340 YPG and one of those contests was a terrible weather game on the road (NE). 


What’s more?

 

All of a sudden Carters beleaguered OL could pass protect. Siemian was only sacked 3 times for -9 yards going up against 2 top 10 defenses on the road. Breece could also run the ball because Siemian was keeping the offense on schedule. 
 

Is Siemian good? Nope. Physically he’s shot, but unlike Zach and Boyle he has the ability to get the ball out of his hand and execute an offense. 
 

I think the Jets would have looked a lot different had Saleh went to Trevor earlier in the year.

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Maxman

Maxman

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2 minutes ago, PaulHolmes1962 said:

A lot of fans listen to sensationalists like Joe Caporoso, Jake Asman, and Matt O’Leary. 
 

Truth is last 3 games with Siemian under center Jets offense was pretty good. Averaged close to 340 YPG and one of those contests was a terrible weather game on the road (NE). 


What’s more?

 

All of a sudden Carters beleaguered OL could pass protect. Siemian was only sacked 3 times for -9 yards going up against 2 top 10 defenses on the road. Breece could also run the ball because Siemian was keeping the offense on schedule. 
 

Is Siemian good? Nope. Physically he’s shot, but unlike Zach and Boyle he has the ability to get the ball out of his hand and execute an offense. 
 

I think the Jets would have looked a lot different had Saleh went to Trevor earlier in the year.

Why do you put so much energy into creating fake accounts? Serious question, what does it do for you? Make you tingly?  :)

You seem to know your stuff. Just not sure why you wouldn't post actual serious topics under one account. Maybe I am missing something, I don't get what is in it for you. 

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Green Ghost

Green Ghost

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6 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Why do you put so much energy into creating fake accounts? Serious question, what does it do for you? Make you tingly?  :)

You seem to know your stuff. Just not sure why you wouldn't post actual serious topics under one account. Maybe I am missing something, I don't get what is in it for you. 

Okay… @The Crusher alluded to this a few hours ago also.

Who is this guy?

The only person I feel secure eliminating is @TuscanyTile2 there’s no way there’s enough time in a day for him to post from multiple accounts! 😉

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Wit

Wit

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In the last 24 hours, I've read posts defending Woody Johnson, Nathaniel Hackett, Kevin Carter, and Todd Downing. What will the next 24 hours bring? OJ Simpson, Joseph Stalin, Bin Laden?

lol I posted before I saw this
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Warfish

Warfish

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There is a valid line of thinking here, that to some degree we need to see the Jets led by a competent QB at some point, and that may (stress may) make some guys we've lambasted or who have underperformed look differently to us.

Not a popular take, certainly in defense of this coaching regime, but it's not too dissimilar to a widely made argument in 2022 that the team looked a lot better on O under Flacco/White/et al. that it did under Wilson.

And to be clear, not one QB we've played in 2022 or 2023 is actually an adequate, competent QB.  Flacco may be the closest, but he was (and is) still clearly past his prime.

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rangerous

rangerous

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10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

There is a valid line of thinking here, that to some degree we need to see the Jets led by a competent QB at some point, and that may (stress may) make some guys we've lambasted or who have underperformed look differently to us.

Not a popular take, certainly in defense of this coaching regime, but it's not too dissimilar to a widely made argument in 2022 that the team looked a lot better on O under Flacco/White/et al. that it did under Wilson.

And to be clear, not one QB we've played in 2022 or 2023 is actually an adequate, competent QB.  Flacco may be the closest, but he was (and is) still clearly past his prime.

Well I think there’s something to be said for how the oline was playing better.  But remember that Zach also had a very nice game against the Texans but the whole team was embarrassed the next week by the doltfins.  I don’t think changing to siemien had the greatest influence on the teams performance.  I also think Zach would’ve won the same games that siemien won down the stretch.

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varjet

varjet

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I think this is a valid point.  Despite all of the negativity, I think Zach Wilson's ability to play NFL QB is beyond bad.  It drove down the entire team, and the HC/GM was afraid to fully admit it and just kept rolling him out.  Tim Boyle was just as bad.  

A QB room of AR8/Siemian/Rypien/draft pick would be 1000x better than Wilson/Boyle/Siemian/Rypien.  

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The Crusher

The Crusher

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3 minutes ago, rangerous said:

Well I think there’s something to be said for how the oline was playing better.  But remember that Zach also had a very nice game against the Texans but the whole team was embarrassed the next week by the doltfins.  I don’t think changing to siemien had the greatest influence on the teams performance.  I also think Zach would’ve won the same games that siemien won down the stretch.

Next time Zach beats the Pats would be his first. 

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jeremy2020

jeremy2020

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2 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

In the last 24 hours, I've read posts defending Woody Johnson, Nathaniel Hackett, Kevin Carter, and Todd Downing. What will the next 24 hours bring? OJ Simpson, Joseph Stalin, Bin Laden?

Special Guest Poster, Bill's Head Coach Sean McDermott will be coming in for that one.

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doitny

doitny

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47 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is entirely untrue.  Not even remotely close to being true.

The offense was awful the last few weeks.  

not true.

im not going to redo the research i did weeks ago but the offense as a team was better is yds, 1st downs, and pts in Siemans 3 games. 

now this i have posted this recently so the numbers are fresher in my head, the OL played better too. 

Zach has a 11% sack percentage vs Siemans 5%. now thats not even close.

and its not just one year. last year Zach was 8.7 while Flacco was 5% and White was 4.9. 

in his rookie year Zach was 10% and White 2.9%

so maybe with the naked eye it didnt seem so, but the offense was better and the OL much better.

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FidelioJet

FidelioJet

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7 minutes ago, doitny said:

not true.

im not going to redo the research i did weeks ago but the offense as a team was better is yds, 1st downs, and pts in Siemans 3 games. 

now this i have posted this recently so the numbers are fresher in my head, the OL played better too. 

Zach has a 11% sack percentage vs Siemans 5%. now thats not even close.

and its not just one year. last year Zach was 8.7 while Flacco was 5% and White was 4.9. 

in his rookie year Zach was 10% and White 2.9%

so maybe with the naked eye it didnt seem so, but the offense was better and the OL much better.

Did you watch the games? Naked eye?

The offense was abhorrent.  You're suggesting I didn't see an awful offense because some randomly pulled stats says otherwise?

Stop man.  The offense was terrible.  I'm not saying Zach was good but neither were any of other knuckleheads this team trotted out last year.

 

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Smashmouth

Smashmouth

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14 hours ago, PaulHolmes1962 said:

A lot of fans listen to sensationalists like Joe Caporoso, Jake Asman, and Matt O’Leary. 
 

Truth is last 3 games with Siemian under center Jets offense was pretty good. Averaged close to 340 YPG and one of those contests was a terrible weather game on the road (NE). 


What’s more?

 

All of a sudden Carters beleaguered OL could pass protect. Siemian was only sacked 3 times for -9 yards going up against 2 top 10 defenses on the road. Breece could also run the ball because Siemian was keeping the offense on schedule. 
 

Is Siemian good? Nope. Physically he’s shot, but unlike Zach and Boyle he has the ability to get the ball out of his hand and execute an offense. 
 

I think the Jets would have looked a lot different had Saleh went to Trevor earlier in the year.

I listen to what those guys report ... I make my own opinions ..which are 2 very different things. Hackett sucked but in regards to his QB situation they sucked as well so was it all 100% Hacketts fault ? When Rodgers comes back if he's going to be calling and changing plays within the huddle we may never know that until well after the fact probably from some disgruntled player on offense 3 years later because Rodgers wont embarrass Hackett by divulging that information.

In the case of Carter its the same exact deal all his players were injured all year from day 1 and the unit was never able to build itself and get used to one another and thats a problem. Just like Hackett can you 100% blame Carter ? Probably not

If the OL is rebuilt and they get a chance to play together you can expect them to start to gel in about games 3-5 next year their may be some bumps early in the season but thats just how it goes with OL's. 

 

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Adoni Beast

Adoni Beast

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4 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

In the last 24 hours, I've read posts defending Woody Johnson, Nathaniel Hackett, Kevin Carter, and Todd Downing. What will the next 24 hours bring? OJ Simpson, Joseph Stalin, Bin Laden?

Well since we are talking about Mr. Stalin....he was a necessary evil during a time and without him I think Europe would look very different today.

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Hex

Hex

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Posted
4 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

In the last 24 hours, I've read posts defending Woody Johnson, Nathaniel Hackett, Kevin Carter, and Todd Downing. What will the next 24 hours bring? OJ Simpson, Joseph Stalin, Bin Laden?

The worst people the world has ever known... Osama Bin Laden, Joseph Stalin, OJ Simpson, and Woody Johnson

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Adoni Beast

Adoni Beast

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Posted
14 hours ago, PaulHolmes1962 said:

A lot of fans listen to sensationalists like Joe Caporoso, Jake Asman, and Matt O’Leary. 
 

Truth is last 3 games with Siemian under center Jets offense was pretty good. Averaged close to 340 YPG and one of those contests was a terrible weather game on the road (NE). 


What’s more?

 

All of a sudden Carters beleaguered OL could pass protect. Siemian was only sacked 3 times for -9 yards going up against 2 top 10 defenses on the road. Breece could also run the ball because Siemian was keeping the offense on schedule. 
 

Is Siemian good? Nope. Physically he’s shot, but unlike Zach and Boyle he has the ability to get the ball out of his hand and execute an offense. 
 

I think the Jets would have looked a lot different had Saleh went to Trevor earlier in the year.

The OL was historically bad and I do think a good deal of that had to do with the likes of Wilson and Boyle starting games for sure. Add in the injuries and it's a recipe for disaster. However, even with all of that said .... there is no excuse for how poorly and for how long they played so badly. They couldn't pass or run block for a majority of the season. Good coaches can at least that unit functional. 

But as you stated there were some noticeable improvements right at the end of the season, so here's hoping to continued improvement.

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