Robert Saleh and Jeff Ulbrich are holding our defense back...

[Beerfish]

Oh here we go another inane Beerfish post about the Jets defense.  Time to give him a thumbs down or sympathy emoji!

Bring it my pretties!

The NY Jets have a good defense, probably very good but for sure not 'elite' and yet we have some 'elite' players.

When system, whether offense or defense trumps player talent there is an issue.  

We do not make the best use of our talent on defense imo.

We play a simple basic defense, rush 4, hardly ever blitz (2nd lowest in the league) defense.

We do not move players around to take advantage of their strengths.

As a defense why are you hesitant to blitz?   Well you do not want to expose your secondary, especially your CBs.

But the Jets have very very good CBs .

We do not move our all pro CB around to take away the other teams best player.  Now DJ Reed is pretty good and Carter is a good slot CB but they are not Sauce.

We stick Quinnen Williams in the middle and let him essentially be Snacks Harrison or Mike Devito, eat up double teams and make some plays.

Quinnen is fully capable of having a Chris Jones impact but whereas KC is creative and moves him around and makes him a focus the Jets just stick Quinnen in one spot and hope he beats the double team.  Quinnen should be moved all over the Dline, yes even to end and let him seek out the other teams weak spots and make it much tougher to double him.

The Jets are obsessed with 4 man rush and rotation but guys like Huff play like 30% of snaps.   Oh but Huff is not great vs the run!  Well the jets essentially play with two base LBs and then either nickel or dime and a tiny lb.   We don't seem to care about run defense in other areas.  This is no longer the old NFL teams pass on 1st down ALOT.

The lack of blitzing makes a team predicable, the other team doesn't have to worry about the blitz, their backs and TEs don't have worry about picking up blitzes.

TL;DR

The Jets have a good defense because they have good players but could be far better and are built to play a riskier game which could vault them to that 'elite' status.

All gas and no brakes?  The Jets defense system has the drive in low gear and riding the brake all game long.

Release the Krakens you cowards!

 

 

[Hex]

I have awarded you a passive aggressive sympathy emoji. Interpret it as you must.

[Hex]

Luckily Robert Saleh is being demoted from HC to offensive genius so we only need to worry about Jeff Ulbrich holding the defense back now.

[Beerfish]

8 minutes ago, Hex said:

Luckily Robert Saleh is being demoted from HC to offensive genius so we only need to worry about Jeff Ulbrich holding the defense back now.

He is doing a fine job of doing just that.

Super bowl game....... A ballsy smart Spags vs Saleh system wilks..

If you have the horses be an aggressive D, if you do not have the horses by all means play a saleh/ulbrich D

[TuscanyTile2]

I'm lukewarm on Ulbrich.  He's a "meets expectations" DC, imo (which makes him far better than Saleh and Hackett, btw). 

He's not bad but we could absolutely do better.  

[Larz]

Watch with your eyes open 

Ulbrich has evolved since his first season.  He brings pressure more often. He’s not Bowles or Schwartz but making the case that they don’t blitz is silly. 
 

The idea of rotating the dline is about having fresh legs in the fourth quarter  so you can get a stop to win the game. 

Huff is a situational player. Doesn’t matter where he goes, if he can’t hold the edge of the defense he’s not going to play on first down.  The jets are correctly planning on extending JJ, who is great against the run. Why extend Huff and potentially not be able to keep JJ?

 

 

 

[bitonti]

if the 49ers still had Saleh at DC they'd win that game the other night 

[Larz]

It should also be noted that playing with one of the worst offenses (not hyperbole) in league history never giving them a lead and having so many short fruitless drives has an enormous impact on the defense. If they didn’t rotate they would have been gassed by halftime every week. 
 

It’s actually a testament to Saleh and Ulbrich and probably Mosley that the defense played hard all year and rarely called out the offense. 
 

 

[Adoni Beast]

Our defense is very good....but the scary part is given the amount of talent they aren't better honestly. No I don't expect defenses to win games by themselves in today's NFL but I don't expect complete blow outs either from a defense with this much talent.

Let's see what happens (if) we have an offense that can actually score points.

[Beerfish]

21 minutes ago, Larz said:

Watch with your eyes open 

Ulbrich has evolved since his first season.  He brings pressure more often. He’s not Bowles or Schwartz but making the case that they don’t blitz is silly. 
 

The idea of rotating the dline is about having fresh legs in the fourth quarter  so you can get a stop to win the game. 

Huff is a situational player. Doesn’t matter where he goes, if he can’t hold the edge of the defense he’s not going to play on first down.  The jets are correctly planning on extending JJ, who is great against the run. Why extend Huff and potentially not be able to keep JJ?

 

 

 

We as with last year blitz thee 2nd least in the whole league and we have dominant CBs.

Teams pass over 50% on 1st down thus keep your best pass rusher on the bench.

As for Huff, if the plan was to move on there is zero excuse for not trading him this past year.

Why did we trade him?  so we can play Will McDonald 30% of d snaps next year

[Beerfish]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

if the 49ers still had Saleh at DC they'd win that game the other night 

Wiks system = saleh, no difference at all.

KC won becasue they had a balls out smart D guy in spags who blitzes and moves his best players into spots they can have the best effect on the game.

[Beerfish]

2 minutes ago, Larz said:

It should also be noted that playing with one of the worst offenses (not hyperbole) in league history never giving them a lead and having so many short fruitless drives has an enormous impact on the defense. If they didn’t rotate they would have been gassed by halftime every week. 
 

It’s actually a testament to Saleh and Ulbrich and probably Mosley that the defense played hard all year and rarely called out the offense. 
 

 

Quite blaming the offense for the D not being elite.

Teams like the Bears and for sure the Dilfer ravens had not much, they won.

Jets D good?  Yes good, elite?  No but it could be.  We have some elite players.

[Adoni Beast]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

if the 49ers still had Saleh at DC they'd win that game the other night 

You mean like the last time they played KC in the Super Bowl? haha 

[Adoni Beast]

28 minutes ago, Larz said:

Watch with your eyes open 

Ulbrich has evolved since his first season.  He brings pressure more often. He’s not Bowles or Schwartz but making the case that they don’t blitz is silly. 
 

The idea of rotating the dline is about having fresh legs in the fourth quarter  so you can get a stop to win the game. 

Huff is a situational player. Doesn’t matter where he goes, if he can’t hold the edge of the defense he’s not going to play on first down.  The jets are correctly planning on extending JJ, who is great against the run. Why extend Huff and potentially not be able to keep JJ?

 

 

 

I have my concerns about Saleh and Ulbrich but overall they've obviously done a very good job. The whole rotational DL methodology is pretty progressive and I like that their D is schematically "simple" with an intent on DL bringing pressure without a lot of blitzing. I wish Saleh was this progressive with this offensive methodology. 

However, for Saleh's defense to work with the rotating DL it requires a lot of resources into the DL. That obviously will take away from filling other roster spots and the question becomes if Saleh one day doesn't have all of those resources in the DL will he be smart enough to adjust the D and still perform well?

[Jet_Engine1]

The Defense is very, very good... but the scheme is very basic and unimaginative. It's driven by solid play by the corners and a heavy DL rotation.

Rex could take this roster of players and create a legendary Defense imo. 

[bitonti]

16 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Wiks system = saleh, no difference at all.

KC won becasue they had a balls out smart D guy in spags who blitzes and moves his best players into spots they can have the best effect on the game.

Bosa said after the game they weren't ready for 4th down 

Wilks is not the same  as saleh, in fact Wilks is probably going to get fired 

imagine that a franchise demanding accountability from their coaches 

[Larz]

2 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I have my concerns about Saleh and Ulbrich but overall they've obviously done a very good job. The whole rotational DL methodology is pretty progressive and I like that their D is schematically "simple" with an intent on DL bringing pressure without a lot of blitzing. I wish Saleh was this progressive with this offensive methodology. 

However, for Saleh's defense to work with the rotating DL it requires a lot of resources into the DL. That obviously will take away from filling other roster spots and the question becomes if Saleh one day doesn't have all of those resources in the DL will he be smart enough to adjust the D and still perform well?

Agree with this and the resources issue is interesting because as far as game day roster , do they dress more dline than other 4 man fronts or is it more that  they play everyone that’s dressed?

As far as salary cap right now it’s 

 

C.J. Mosley

Quinnen Williams

Laken Tomlinson

Aaron Rodgers

John Franklin-Myers

D.J. Reed

Allen Lazard

C.J. Uzomah

Zach Wilson

Tyler Conklin

Ahmad Gardner

Quincy Williams

Carl Lawson

Garrett Wilson

Alijah Vera-Tucker

 

pretty even. 7/8.   I have to believe that going from QB play that made everyone around them worse to a guy known for making everyone around him better will make the offense investments look better but woof lol. That is some ugly ROI on offense. 
 

 

[Mogglez]

29 minutes ago, bitonti said:

if the 49ers still had Saleh at DC they'd win that game the other night 

By a mile.

[Creepy Lurker]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Bosa said after the game they weren't ready for 4th down 

Wilks is not the same  as saleh, in fact Wilks is probably going to get fired 

imagine that a franchise demanding accountability from their coaches 

Accountability just isn’t part of the culture that is being built. 

[varjet]

Saleh and Ulbrich are good defensive coaches.  They both will likely be at least DCs in the NFL for a very long time.  Saleh would now be a perfect DC to a first time offensive OC.   That will likely be his next job.  

They could do better, and I think their defense requires too much resources in terms of cap space.  I have not analyzed the Jets' cap allocation between offense and defense.    I may be wrong, if only because the Jets pay alot of money for a bad offensive line.  The Jets' OL may be one of the NFL's most expensive.   They should not need a $17mm slightly above average MLB.  

The logical next step will be for the Jets to allocate more resources to offense-so we will see how Saleh/Ulbrich do without Lawson, Huff and maybe Mosley.  

[BigRy56]

And who is pulling all the strings here, you ask? The source of all our problems... Aaron Rodgers

[TuscanyTile2]

35 minutes ago, Larz said:

It should also be noted that playing with one of the worst offenses (not hyperbole) in league history never giving them a lead and having so many short fruitless drives has an enormous impact on the defense. If they didn’t rotate they would have been gassed by halftime every week.

It’s actually a testament to Saleh and Ulbrich and probably Mosley that the defense played hard all year and rarely called out the offense. 

Saleh and Ulbrich didn't do anything special on defense.  They did a "meets expectations" job based on the talent and depth that they were coaching.  When our talent level on defense stunk, they gave up 54 points to the Mac Jones led Patriots.  They are both good DC types but neither is anything special at all.

[TuscanyTile2]

39 minutes ago, bitonti said:

if the 49ers still had Saleh at DC they'd win that game the other night 

Maybe if they had Spags, I'd agree.  Saleh is nothing special at all.  SF doesn't miss him.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, Hex said:

Luckily Robert Saleh is being demoted from HC to offensive genius so we only need to worry about Jeff Ulbrich holding the defense back now.

Ulbrich is going to "do the defense".

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Quinnen is fully capable of having a Chris Jones impact

So were you wrong about Quinnen before when you said he’s overrated and overpaid, or are you wrong now?

[Beerfish]

16 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

So were you wrong about Quinnen before when you said he’s overrated and overpaid, or are you wrong now?

My comments have always been mostly in jest about quinnen,   He did not provide what he was paid for this past year, not all his fault.

[TuscanyTile2]

54 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

You mean like the last time they played KC in the Super Bowl? haha 

Saleh's defense gave up 3 TDs in the 4th quarter - lol.

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Quite blaming the offense for the D not being elite.

Teams like the Bears and for sure the Dilfer ravens had not much, they won.

Jets D good?  Yes good, elite?  No but it could be.  We have some elite players.

To me, “elite” means one of the best in the sport. I’d say the jets have one of the 5 or so best defenses. I think they finished 3rd overall in DVOA? 

By bringing up the 85 Bears and 2000 Ravens, you seem to be using “elite” to mean “historically dominant,” which the current Jets certainly are not. 
 

beyond that, it’s hard to say. I agree that the scheme is vanilla and unimaginative and that the defensive roster is very good, but I also think some of these players were carefully picked for this system. 
 

the conservative nature of the system is also part of the reason the jets give up so few big passing plays 

[JetsFanatic]

This defense was garbage prior to Saleh. Saleh is certainly open to criticism as a HC, however to accuse him of holding back the defense is insane. However I’m not surprised it was posted on this board because it’s been nothing but a whine fest, not to be taken too seriously, since this season turned disappointing. 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Quite blaming the offense for the D not being elite.

Teams like the Bears and for sure the Dilfer ravens had not much, they won.

Jets D good?  Yes good, elite?  No but it could be.  We have some elite players.

Is your argument that with the right coaching this defense would be as good as the '85 Bears or '00 Ravens? If so please let us know what coaches could accomplish this.

I would argue that the rules have changes such that we'll never see a defense as dominant as either of those again.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

This defense was garbage prior to Saleh. Saleh is certainly open to criticism as a HC, to accuse him of holding the back the defense is insane. However I’m not surprised it was posted in this board because it’s been nothing but whine fest since this season turned disappointing. 

Look at his defense his 1st year. 

They gave up 19, 25, 26, 24, 27, 54, 31, 45, 45, 24,14, 33, 30, 31, 21, 28, 27

54 points out of the bye week to Mac Jones!  Then Ulbrich basically said "never again", after which they gave up 31, 45, and 45.  Lol.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/schedule/_/name/nyj/season/2021

[Green Ghost]

2 hours ago, Hex said:

I have awarded you a passive aggressive sympathy emoji. Interpret it as you must.

 

2 hours ago, Hex said:

Luckily Robert Saleh is being demoted from HC to offensive genius so we only need to worry about Jeff Ulbrich holding the defense back now.

Props @Hex you’ve been raising your game to the next level recently… don’t think it’s gone unnoticed. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[Green Ghost]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Maybe if they had Spags, I'd agree.  Saleh is nothing special at all.  SF doesn't miss him.

This^^^^
you guys saying Saleh would’ve stopped Mahomes and SF would’ve won the Super Bowl are living in fantasy land.

You’re as bad as the idiots who claim Zach could become a FQB because of “that game he almost beat KC!l!”

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

34 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Look at his defense his 1st year. 

They gave up 19, 25, 26, 24, 27, 54, 31, 45, 45, 24,14, 33, 30, 31, 21, 28, 27

54 points out of the bye week to Mac Jones!  Then Ulbrich basically said "never again", after which they gave up 31, 45, and 45.  Lol.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/schedule/_/name/nyj/season/2021

Were you oblivious to how they were trying to build the team? They started nobodies across the board. Bryce Hall was CB1 for goodness sake. 

Discussing the defense after last year, as if it was a weakness, is just stupid. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Oh here we go another inane Beerfish post about the Jets defense.  Time to give him a thumbs down or sympathy emoji!

Bring it my pretties!

The NY Jets have a good defense, probably very good but for sure not 'elite' and yet we have some 'elite' players.

When system, whether offense or defense trumps player talent there is an issue.  

We do not make the best use of our talent on defense imo.

We play a simple basic defense, rush 4, hardly ever blitz (2nd lowest in the league) defense.

We do not move players around to take advantage of their strengths.

As a defense why are you hesitant to blitz?   Well you do not want to expose your secondary, especially your CBs.

But the Jets have very very good CBs .

We do not move our all pro CB around to take away the other teams best player.  Now DJ Reed is pretty good and Carter is a good slot CB but they are not Sauce.

We stick Quinnen Williams in the middle and let him essentially be Snacks Harrison or Mike Devito, eat up double teams and make some plays.

Quinnen is fully capable of having a Chris Jones impact but whereas KC is creative and moves him around and makes him a focus the Jets just stick Quinnen in one spot and hope he beats the double team.  Quinnen should be moved all over the Dline, yes even to end and let him seek out the other teams weak spots and make it much tougher to double him.

The Jets are obsessed with 4 man rush and rotation but guys like Huff play like 30% of snaps.   Oh but Huff is not great vs the run!  Well the jets essentially play with two base LBs and then either nickel or dime and a tiny lb.   We don't seem to care about run defense in other areas.  This is no longer the old NFL teams pass on 1st down ALOT.

The lack of blitzing makes a team predicable, the other team doesn't have to worry about the blitz, their backs and TEs don't have worry about picking up blitzes.

TL;DR

The Jets have a good defense because they have good players but could be far better and are built to play a riskier game which could vault them to that 'elite' status.

All gas and no brakes?  The Jets defense system has the drive in low gear and riding the brake all game long.

Release the Krakens you cowards!

 

 

YES!!

"You won't have many friends here, but I'll be one of them!"