Another Bowers thread? Yup

[AFJF]

Thought this article was fantastic an the accompanying stat that really jumped out at me.  Link to full article at bottom.

As I've said many times in endorsing Bowers at 10, YAC is king in today's NFL.

 

Bowers’ average yards after the catch was higher than any of this year’s consensus top three wide receivers in Marvin Harrison Jr. (5.1), Rome Odunze (5.2) and Malik Nabers (6.6), while also registering an explosive reception on 5.9% of his routes, which ranked third among tight ends since 2019.

Brock Bowers is this NFL Draft's marquee enigma. He's also worthy of the hype - Yahoo Sports

 

[LockeJET]

We need another dynamic playmaker.  I am completely on board in drafting Bowers. Not sure about his ceiling but he’s a very safe pick. Kid is gonna be a playmaker! 

[Untouchable]

People can take their supposed “premium positions” and stick them up their collective assh0les. 

League average guards now make $16-17 million a year after every dickhead from here to Timbuktu told me I was a nutter for wanting Quenton Nelson at #6 before we ultimately moved up for Darnold.

Dudes like Kelce, Kittle, LaPorta, Andrews, etc are some of the premier offensive weapons in the game today. Stop telling me that drafting arguably the best TE prospect to ever step out of the college ranks is some sort of batsh*t fools errand at #10 after you’ve already attacked the hell out of the OL in FA and landed your #2 wideout opposite Wilson.

Two years fellas before we go back to bottom of the sh*t barrel QB play and a completely inept offense as a whole. Better utilize the time you have.

[Beerfish]

I've said it before i'll say it again.

I like Bowers a lot and will be fine with the jets picking him but I have ZERO confidence that Hackett can make proper use of him.

With an HB/TE weapon you have to go out of your way to make the best use of him.  I see hackett going, oh, a tight end, lets do all the tight end things.

[Greenseed4]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I've said it before i'll say it again.

I like Bowers a lot and will be fine with the jets picking him but I have ZERO confidence that Hackett can make proper use of him.

With an HB/TE weapon you have to go out of your way to make the best use of him.  I see hackett going, oh, a tight end, let’s do all the tight end things.

Hackett doesn’t call plays when Aaron is in. Silly. 

[doitny]

23 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I've said it before i'll say it again.

I like Bowers a lot and will be fine with the jets picking him but I have ZERO confidence that Hackett can make proper use of him.

With an HB/TE weapon you have to go out of your way to make the best use of him.  I see hackett going, oh, a tight end, lets do all the tight end things.

Conklin was pretty good last year. 65 catches on 87 targets. do you expect better use than that?

TE was not ignored last year. in fact i would argue Conklin was a big part of the offense.

 

[derp]

If he averaged 8.5 YAC/reception that must mean that given his average YPC of 14.5 he caught the ball 6.0 yards downfield on average over his 175 college receptions, right? Whole lot of underneath stuff.

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

Man you guys are obsessed with bowers lol. 

[Greenseed4]

If we draft him he’ll be the new BB in the division. For that reason alone we should draft him. 

#putbilltobed

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

Brock bowers. 
10 100 yard games in 3 years

Rome Odunze.

10 100 yard games last year 

WRs > TE

 

[David Harris]

Trading John Abraham for Nick Mangold was a mistake.  We all love our Viking center, I’m sure I’d love Brock Bowers. But position matters, there’s a reason centers, LBs, safeties and tight ends don’t get drafted top 10.  

Edge > C

OT/WR > TE
 

I’d be excited for Bowers but I’m going with history which has shown certain positions are more valuable than others and not crossing my fingers that I got the one unicorn (we already tried that with Jamal Adams).

[Gastineau Lives]

Can’t we just trade the number 10 overall for Evan Neal and be done with it?

[T0mShane]

Does it concern anyone else that the prematurely balding and perpetually nicked up undersized tight end who looks like he’s in his mid-30’s has apparently been too injured to run for the past four months? 

[PS17]

25 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Brock bowers. 
10 100 yard games in 3 years

Rome Odunze.

10 100 yard games last year 

WRs > TE

 

I’m trading up to 7 or 8 to get Odunze. Need to jump the Bears and the price shouldn’t be too high. Will be so worth it. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

Good article.

This is difficult. 

He's got awesome tape, there's no denying that. Brock Bowers is just a good football player.

Here are the issues:

• We don't have athletic testing. He's 6'3 243, but people say he plays in the 230's (even in one of those clips in the article, he's said to be 235). Will he weigh-in again when he runs on April 10th @ his workout? How do we know if that End-Around clip where he 'gets the edge' will work in the NFL? Same with his Jet Sweeps. What is the athletic benchmark he must meet to warrant such a high pick?
• What is the identity of our team? Do we want to be a "win the trenches" team? If so, taking a 240 lb TE 10 overall with two aging tackles (Tyron frequently being sidelined), and one oft-injured AVT simply does not fit. For all the sh*t we gave the team last year for our first-rounder, looking back, would you rather have JSN right now or the heir apparent to Bryce Huff? Would we have been able to sign Tyron and Mike Williams if we felt obligated to re-sign Huff? We don't know if McDonald is good or not yet, but it was a good piece of business in hindsight. Perhaps that's exactly what we should be doing this year @ offensive tackle. And if that kid never plays a down because the o-line is healthy this year? That's kinda the best-case scenario - the offensive line is healthy and the offense will be pretty goddam good barring some other disaster.
• I'm a Breece Hall truther. He's the Prince that Was Promised, the Lisan Al Gaib, Prime Adrian Peterson (that can catch); our best weapon and, IMO, outside of the aging McCaffrey, the best RB in the league. If my offensive line can open holes, then I can take a massive amount of pressure off our 40-year-old quarterback. This team doesn't need Brock Bowers like it needs consistent success on the offensive line. I don't want to be a pass-first team while we have a 22-year-old Breece Hall and a 40-year-old quarterback.

I'm not gonna hate it. I'm not gonna complain. I might call him Chris Cooley or Dustin Keller or the H-Back Jerrald Sowell a bit out of disappointment, but that's just because we're jaded AF Jets fans. 

I'd just rather spend this pick on a premium position that we've never been able to properly fill since D'Brickashaw and Damien Woody retired.

That reminds me of the last time we were really good: We had a great offensive line, a dope defense and the Achilles heel was Mark Sanchez.

Our defense is good, and maybe with a functional offense, really good. Even an aging Rodgers is better than Sanchez. And Breece is better than Thomas Jones. The biggest question mark for this team is; "Can you routinely field a competent starting 5 on the offensive line?"

If we take a tackle with guard versatility @ 10, I feel much more confident in my answer to that question. 

[PS17]

So glad we beat the Pats and the Commies btw 

[Mr. Rogers]

I know this kid has looked real good in a loaded SEC conference. Hell, as long as we don't leave MHJ, Alt, Nabers or Odunze on the board, I won't be upset if we draft him. 

But I just don't see the hype, either. Yeah, I watched him in college, he passes the eye test. Nice hands, can do everything at a pro level already. But what is generational about him? He's not even the fastest, most athletic, or most rangey TE we've seen. It really seems to me like we'd be spending the 10th pick (on a relatively expensive rookie contract) for an average to above average TE in the league. More than anything, I think he's looked so great because he's gotten opportunities at Georgia that those at other schools don't. Many of the NFLs best TEs were pretty unheralded prospects - I know that shouldn't necessarily stop us from taking a good one, but it does emphasize to me that college production matters less at this position. 

I would invite the Bowers crowd to try and convince me. I've looked at some advanced metrics (like the dominator score and Y/RR) and I see they're impressive, but is this kid truly the kind of generational player that can justify taking a non premium position 10th overall? I don't need to hear about "win-now" or roster needs though - with Williams, Smith and Moses coming off serious injuries on 1 year deals I think any offensive player we take WILL be relevant during this year and for our whole championship window.

Personally, I'd strongly prefer to trade back and take shots on WR/OL if the guys I listed initially aren't available. I think later in the 1st round we could still have a shot at Bowers as well as multiple solid OL, and the 2nd and 3rd rounds are filled with great WR.

[PS17]

I think if we have to stay at 10 and the elite OL/WR are gone, I’m taking Brian Thomas over Bowers. 

[Gastineau Lives]

2 minutes ago, PS17 said:

I think if we have to stay at 10 and the elite OL/WR are gone, I’m taking Brian Thomas over Bowers. 

Yup every playoff team last year has themselves three great receivers. 0 tight ends.

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 minute ago, PS17 said:

I think if we have to stay at 10 and the elite OL/WR are gone, I’m taking Brian Thomas over Bowers. 

I was interested in that option too until @T0mShane posted this earlier today;

10% drop rate... 

Has me thinking he's appropriately valued as more of a trade-down target as opposed to a stay-@-10-pick. If I could recoup a second and target tackle on early day 2, I'd be good with that. But not as into BT jr @ 10 after that. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

29 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Brock bowers. 
10 100 yard games in 3 years

Rome Odunze.

10 100 yard games last year 

WRs > TE

 

That may be the most simplistic and ridiculous analysis of 2 college players this board has ever seen. 

 

Kelce 875 total yards   in 3 years of college

Mark Andrews had 1765 yards in 3 years of college. 

Denzel Mims 3,000 yards   in 4 years of college. 

ZOMG Mims must be more valuable to an NFL team than Travis Kelce and Mark Andrews combined!!!

 

Regardless,  Malik Washington may get drafted in the 5th round and he had 10 100 yard games this past year in the ACC. 

I don't even have a preference between Odunze and Bowers, but if I did, it wouldn't because of how many 100 yard games each player had in college when they are playing different positions. 

[Mr. Rogers]

4 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

10% drop rate... 

Has me thinking he's appropriately valued as more of a trade-down target as opposed to a stay-@-10-pick. If I could recoup a second and target tackle on early day 2, I'd be good with that. But not as into BT jr @ 10 after that. 

I have been feeling the same. Something sets off alarm bells for me with this guy... I know that's corny, but I'm almost always a fan of LSU receiver products and this is the first time where I fear his ceiling is like a Gabe Davis or Corey Davis. Just more of a WR2 ceiling despite the athleticism, I didn't see the intuition, route running or hands I'd expect from a top 10 pick with this guy even though the potential is monstrous. 

For me, I'd rather move back and see who's left of Fashanu, Fuaga, Latham, etc. And then have a good look through the round 2/3 WRs. When comparing hit rate in r1 vs r2/r3 nowadays, OL is a lot safer early whereas top WR talent comes into the NFL every year in rounds 2 and 3. Scouts just gotta do better than.... Elijah Moore.......

[RedBeardedSavage]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Rogers said:

I have been feeling the same. Something sets off alarm bells for me with this guy... I know that's corny, but I'm almost always a fan of LSU receiver products and this is the first time where I fear his ceiling is like a Gabe Davis or Corey Davis. Just more of a WR2 ceiling despite the athleticism, I didn't see the intuition, route running or hands I'd expect from a top 10 pick with this guy even though the potential is monstrous. 

For me, I'd rather move back and see who's left of Fashanu, Fuaga, Latham, etc. And then have a good look through the round 2/3 WRs. When comparing hit rate in r1 vs r2/r3 nowadays, OL is a lot safer early whereas top WR talent comes into the NFL every year in rounds 2 and 3. Scouts just gotta do better than.... Elijah Moore.......

I can't speak on the nuances of his game, I just saw his production, his combine and watched some videos on YouTube. Brian Thomas Jr looks like he's got crazy potential.

But if doesn't consistently catch the ball, then we might have another Stephen Hill/Justin McCariens situation. That makes me nervous.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Greenseed4 said:

Hackett doesn’t call plays when Aaron is in. Silly. 

Hackett is still going to design the offense and construct the plays and if the QB is changing every singe play call you have a huge problem.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

Conklin was pretty good last year. 65 catches on 87 targets. do you expect better use than that?

TE was not ignored last year. in fact i would argue Conklin was a big part of the offense.

 

0 tds

Yes i expect more than that if we are going to use a high pick on a weapon.

I'd also expect more 2 TEs sets which we do not seem to like at all.

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

21 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I don't even have a preference between Odunze and Bowers, but if I did, it wouldn't because of how many 100 yard games each player had in college when they are playing different positions. 

That was kinda my point. Wr is a far more important position than TE.

Guess How many WRs put up better numbers this past college football season than bowers?  

100.  

last year in the nfl there’s was 1 1000 yard receiving TE. George Kittle, who finished 24th in the league in receiving yards.

id rather have a high end WR every day of the week over a high end TE. The high end Wr will out produce the high end TE

let me put this another way. Would you rather have….

Garret Wilson or Dalton Kincaid?  
Jamar chase or Kyle Pitts?
Aj brown or Evan engram? 
CeeDee lamb or George Kittle? 
 

[David Harris]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Does it concern anyone else that the prematurely balding and perpetually nicked up undersized tight end who looks like he’s in his mid-30’s has apparently been too injured to run for the past four months? 

This post made me weirdly self conscious

[David Harris]

1 hour ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Good article.

This is difficult. 

He's got awesome tape, there's no denying that. Brock Bowers is just a good football player.

Here are the issues:

• We don't have athletic testing. He's 6'3 243, but people say he plays in the 230's (even in one of those clips in the article, he's said to be 235). Will he weigh-in again when he runs on April 10th @ his workout? How do we know if that End-Around clip where he 'gets the edge' will work in the NFL? Same with his Jet Sweeps. What is the athletic benchmark he must meet to warrant such a high pick?
• What is the identity of our team? Do we want to be a "win the trenches" team? If so, taking a 240 lb TE 10 overall with two aging tackles (Tyron frequently being sidelined), and one oft-injured AVT simply does not fit. For all the sh*t we gave the team last year for our first-rounder, looking back, would you rather have JSN right now or the heir apparent to Bryce Huff? Would we have been able to sign Tyron and Mike Williams if we felt obligated to re-sign Huff? We don't know if McDonald is good or not yet, but it was a good piece of business in hindsight. Perhaps that's exactly what we should be doing this year @ offensive tackle. And if that kid never plays a down because the o-line is healthy this year? That's kinda the best-case scenario - the offensive line is healthy and the offense will be pretty goddam good barring some other disaster.
• I'm a Breece Hall truther. He's the Prince that Was Promised, the Lisan Al Gaib, Prime Adrian Peterson (that can catch); our best weapon and, IMO, outside of the aging McCaffrey, the best RB in the league. If my offensive line can open holes, then I can take a massive amount of pressure off our 40-year-old quarterback. This team doesn't need Brock Bowers like it needs consistent success on the offensive line. I don't want to be a pass-first team while we have a 22-year-old Breece Hall and a 40-year-old quarterback.

I'm not gonna hate it. I'm not gonna complain. I might call him Chris Cooley or Dustin Keller or the H-Back Jerrald Sowell a bit out of disappointment, but that's just because we're jaded AF Jets fans. 

I'd just rather spend this pick on a premium position that we've never been able to properly fill since D'Brickashaw and Damien Woody retired.

That reminds me of the last time we were really good: We had a great offensive line, a dope defense and the Achilles heel was Mark Sanchez.

Our defense is good, and maybe with a functional offense, really good. Even an aging Rodgers is better than Sanchez. And Breece is better than Thomas Jones. The biggest question mark for this team is; "Can you routinely field a competent starting 5 on the offensive line?"

If we take a tackle with guard versatility @ 10, I feel much more confident in my answer to that question. 

Drop the mic

This is the dialogue I was expecting when I joined jets boards 20 years ago…

Instead I’ve seen this meme 4000 times

[Mr. Rogers]

23 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I can't speak on the nuances of his game, I just saw his production, his combine and watched some videos on YouTube. Brian Thomas Jr looks like he's got crazy potential.

But if doesn't consistently catch the ball, then we might have another Stephen Hill/Justin McCariens situation. That makes me nervous.

Yeah haha, I won't pretend I'm some NFL scout in disguise. I do feel I have good intuition with WRs, though, and I suspect BTJ is a lot closer to this year's Quentin Johnston than the next Megatron...

Unless someone is really interested I won't go overboard with my thoughts, but I will say that I think concerns over his NFL level route running and hands are real. Speedy guys often have a tough time fixing catch problems - I think it's tough to focus on going top speed and catching at once, but no one ever tells them to slow to 90% speed and play with deliberation. LSU usually sends its WR to the NFL pro ready, so the fact that they couldn't fully develop those areas scares me. I'm not confident that the Jets can, especially with Rodgers lacking patience with guys who can't run and catch exactly where he wants.

[Dcat]

2 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

Hackett doesn’t call plays when Aaron is in. Silly. 

and Rodgers has never favored TEs at any point in his career.  ugh... 1st rd TEs.  Hope the guy is the next Tony Gonzalez, perhaps the only rd 1 TE that was worth it.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Good article.

This is difficult. 

He's got awesome tape, there's no denying that. Brock Bowers is just a good football player.

Here are the issues:

• We don't have athletic testing. He's 6'3 243, but people say he plays in the 230's (even in one of those clips in the article, he's said to be 235). Will he weigh-in again when he runs on April 10th @ his workout? How do we know if that End-Around clip where he 'gets the edge' will work in the NFL? Same with his Jet Sweeps. What is the athletic benchmark he must meet to warrant such a high pick?
• What is the identity of our team? Do we want to be a "win the trenches" team? If so, taking a 240 lb TE 10 overall with two aging tackles (Tyron frequently being sidelined), and one oft-injured AVT simply does not fit. For all the sh*t we gave the team last year for our first-rounder, looking back, would you rather have JSN right now or the heir apparent to Bryce Huff? Would we have been able to sign Tyron and Mike Williams if we felt obligated to re-sign Huff? We don't know if McDonald is good or not yet, but it was a good piece of business in hindsight. Perhaps that's exactly what we should be doing this year @ offensive tackle. And if that kid never plays a down because the o-line is healthy this year? That's kinda the best-case scenario - the offensive line is healthy and the offense will be pretty goddam good barring some other disaster.
• I'm a Breece Hall truther. He's the Prince that Was Promised, the Lisan Al Gaib, Prime Adrian Peterson (that can catch); our best weapon and, IMO, outside of the aging McCaffrey, the best RB in the league. If my offensive line can open holes, then I can take a massive amount of pressure off our 40-year-old quarterback. This team doesn't need Brock Bowers like it needs consistent success on the offensive line. I don't want to be a pass-first team while we have a 22-year-old Breece Hall and a 40-year-old quarterback.

I'm not gonna hate it. I'm not gonna complain. I might call him Chris Cooley or Dustin Keller or the H-Back Jerrald Sowell a bit out of disappointment, but that's just because we're jaded AF Jets fans. 

I'd just rather spend this pick on a premium position that we've never been able to properly fill since D'Brickashaw and Damien Woody retired.

That reminds me of the last time we were really good: We had a great offensive line, a dope defense and the Achilles heel was Mark Sanchez.

Our defense is good, and maybe with a functional offense, really good. Even an aging Rodgers is better than Sanchez. And Breece is better than Thomas Jones. The biggest question mark for this team is; "Can you routinely field a competent starting 5 on the offensive line?"

If we take a tackle with guard versatility @ 10, I feel much more confident in my answer to that question. 

^ You said everything I had been thinking.  My gut feeling is that they have their eye on a couple of players for 10 and if they aren't there they will try hard to move out of 10. I don't know if Bowers is one of them. I do think that for once, our spot will be attractive to teams who want to move up.  I think JD will take the picks over Bowers. 

[neckdemon]

6 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Brock bowers. 
10 100 yard games in 3 years

Rome Odunze.

10 100 yard games last year 

WRs > TE

 

yeah if he is there they should probably take him. but most likely he will be gone by pick 10

[UntouchableCrew]

First Round TEs Since 2009:

• Brandon Pettigrew
• Jermaine Gresham
• Tyler Eifert
• Eric Ebron
• OJ Howard
• Evan Engram
• David Njoku
• Hayden Hurst
• TJ Hockenson
• Noah Fant
• Kyle Pitts
• Dalton Kincaid

[Ghost]

The only way I’m taking Bowers in the first is if I trade back to the mid-teens and receive a 2nd round pick. There’s no way I am taking Bowers at 10 and not making again until the 3rd round. 

[Ghost]

12 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

First Round TEs Since 2009:

• Brandon Pettigrew
• Jermaine Gresham
• Tyler Eifert
• Eric Ebron
• OJ Howard
• Evan Engram
• David Njoku
• Hayden Hurst
• TJ Hockenson
• Noah Fant
• Kyle Pitts
• Dalton Kincaid

Sam LaPorta needs to be on that list too. Besides LaPorta and Kincaid, the rest are awful and did not live up to the hype.