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Jets #1 team in NFL - Unit Grades - per Mike Clay


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1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

What about 3/5 of the OL (including both OTs), WR2, WR3, RB2 and RB3?

As bad as the line was, Zach made them look even worse. You always post that photo of all the defenders coming at Wilson unblocked. It was probably done on purpose with the hopes he'd get flattened and never play again. 

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3 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

As bad as the line was, Zach made them look even worse. You always post that photo of all the defenders coming at Wilson unblocked. It was probably done on purpose with the hopes he'd get flattened and never play again. 

Yeah, I'm sure that's what it is.  

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19 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

As bad as the line was, Zach made them look even worse. You always post that photo of all the defenders coming at Wilson unblocked. It was probably done on purpose with the hopes he'd get flattened and never play again. 

Do you think Nate Hackett will remember next year that Breece Hall can catch?  Hopefully between rounds of golf, our HC will occasionally call to remind him. 

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1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

What about 3/5 of the OL (including both OTs), WR2, WR3, RB2 and RB3?

EDIT: Oh and a terrible CS, including arguably the worst OC* in the NFL. 

* Maybe Nate Hackett will improve this year now that he's aware that Breece Hall can catch.

I don't think we have a terrible CS, I think we have a terrible OC. Hackett is only valuable in that he allows Aaron to do what Aaron wants to do - and we'll see how that goes?

Totally agree the O line was trash, but I did mention that in that post above.

Also, that unit has seen the most investment this offseason with 3 new starters alongside the 10 overall pick in the draft.

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2 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

if you're going to have playoff (even SB) experience anywhere on the roster, you want it at QB. 

It hasn't come up much but Aaron rodgers has been less than excellent in the playoffs. He's like 12-10 and kind of crapped the bed the last 2 times he was there 

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13 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It hasn't come up much but Aaron rodgers has been less than excellent in the playoffs. He's like 12-10 and kind of crapped the bed the last 2 times he was there 

But aren't the only dudes recently with impressive playoff records Brady and Mahomes?

Josh Allen is .500 or so, Lamar has a meh record.

Burrow and Purdy had one run each, so they probably have a good win %, but all from like one run.

I'm not saying Rodgers is some money playoff player, but he's not Dak Prescott either. 

Idk, lets get there first and then b*tch about it if he sh*ts the bed?

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On 5/10/2024 at 7:59 PM, bitonti said:

It hasn't come up much but Aaron rodgers has been less than excellent in the playoffs. He's like 12-10 and kind of crapped the bed the last 2 times he was there 

You mean when he went 31-39, 326 yds, 2 TDs, 2 INTs vs the 15 win 9’rs.  1 int in desperation to end the game in the 2021 NFCCG? 

Or when he went 27-45, 287yrds, 3 TDs, 1 INTs vs the 14 win Falcons in the 2017 NFCCG.  Both of these games on the road

I guess it was the 20-36, 280 yards, 3 TDs, 3 INTs against the Bucks in the 2021 NFCCG.  

Somehow he keeps getting his team to the NFCCG before losing.   But we should worry about this
 

 

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15 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I remain optimistic, because while all of what you said is correct, IMO, I think the context is key -

  • if you're going to have playoff (even SB) experience anywhere on the roster, you want it at QB. 

 

  • worst to first - I get what you mean, but I do feel like we've had two years of a good roster (apart from the disaster at offensive line), except Zach Wilson was the quarterback and, as a lot of us on here have said, even someone like Gardiner Minshew could've led us to the playoffs one of those two seasons

I think, because of just how poorly Zach played, we looked worse as a team than we actually were. 

14 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

What about 3/5 of the OL (including both OTs), WR2, WR3, RB2 and RB3?

EDIT: Oh and a terrible CS, including arguably the worst OC* in the NFL. 

* Maybe Nate Hackett will improve this year now that he's aware that Breece Hall can catch.

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

They did replace all of those positions.

You're missing my point.  I was responding with RedBeardedSavage's comment in mind.  He wrote "I think, because of just how poorly Zach played, we looked worse as a team than we actually were" as if it was all ZW's fault.  When your GM also replaces all the positions I mentioned, doesn't it kind of at least make it at least plausible that maybe the problem was "the surrounding players on offense", rather than ZW?

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32 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

When your GM also replaces all the positions I mentioned, doesn't it kind of at least make it at least plausible that maybe the problem was "the surrounding players on offense", rather than ZW?

C’mon, the best you’re gonna get might be in addition to ZW. He held the ball way too long, making the OL look worse, and then threw it rather errantly on a regular basis. I have no idea why you want to continue to defend the former Jet. If he has any talent, Payton will get it out of him just to make Hackett look even worse. 

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44 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You're missing my point.  I was responding with RedBeardedSavage's comment in mind.  He wrote "I think, because of just how poorly Zach played, we looked worse as a team than we actually were" as if it was all ZW's fault.  When your GM also replaces all the positions I mentioned, doesn't it kind of at least make it at least plausible that maybe the problem was "the surrounding players on offense", rather than ZW?

let it go GIF

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19 minutes ago, slats said:

C’mon, the best you’re gonna get might be in addition to ZW. He held the ball way too long, making the OL look worse, and then threw it rather errantly on a regular basis. I have no idea why you want to continue to defend the former Jet. If he has any talent, Payton will get it out of him just to make Hackett look even worse. 

I'm not saying he doesn't have a long way to go but I do think he showed good progress last year.  If he held the ball way too long, how do we know it wasn't because his WR2 was a punt returner?  And I also think that stats that show he held the ball longer than most are probably not accounting for him being very good at running away from defenders (including with pirouettes, which I'd argue were necessary due to his awful OL), trying to create something out of nothing.

I also think our CS was an absolute joke.  Saleh thinks he's a DC and Hackett is AR8's coffee boy.  I do think the Jets tried to do the right thing in ZW's rookie year until the Greg Knapp tragedy but, after that, they didn't seem to have a real plan.

Let's see what he does (if anything) with Payton.  I think best case, he shows something in pre-season and Payton makes him a special project.  But the fact that Payton drafted Bo Nix says a lot about who he sees the future Broncos' QB will be.

EDIT: I just want to mention that I fully agree that ZW completely stunk his first 2 years as a Jet.  It's only year 3 that I felt he showed progress.

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1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You're missing my point.  I was responding with RedBeardedSavage's comment in mind.  He wrote "I think, because of just how poorly Zach played, we looked worse as a team than we actually were" as if it was all ZW's fault.  When your GM also replaces all the positions I mentioned, doesn't it kind of at least make it at least plausible that maybe the problem was "the surrounding players on offense", rather than ZW?

Well, it was like 90% Zach Wilson's fault. He sucks and having a guy who sucks at QB is far more detrimental to your team than having a below average WR3 or a poorly graded RG.

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3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Well, it was like 90% Zach Wilson's fault. He sucks and having a guy who sucks at QB is far more detrimental to your team than having a below average WR3 or a poorly graded RG.

ZW years 1 & 2, yes. 

But year 3, I'm not buying that at all.

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1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

ZW years 1 & 2, yes. 

But year 3, I'm not buying that at all.

So he sucked in years 1 and 2 but in year 3 when he sucked it was no longer his fault?

The strong likelihood is that the kid was never a top tier NFL prospect, got overdrafted based on tools during the Covid year and simply isn't an NFL QB.

I'd agree he was better in year three than one and two though, because it would be impossible not to be.

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14 hours ago, bitonti said:

It hasn't come up much but Aaron rodgers has been less than excellent in the playoffs. He's like 12-10 and kind of crapped the bed the last 2 times he was there 

image.thumb.png.32366e5b2789e3934a9804cf5fb0578e.png

image.thumb.png.635e3aad6fac5e44b42394d2ec034ddb.png


youre right he stinks in the playoffs 

 

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1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

So he sucked in years 1 and 2 but in year 3 when he sucked it was no longer his fault?

The strong likelihood is that the kid was never a top tier NFL prospect, got overdrafted based on tools during the Covid year and simply isn't an NFL QB.

I'd agree he was better in year three than one and two though, because it would be impossible not to be.

 

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So he sucked in years 1 and 2 but in year 3 when he sucked it was no longer his fault?

I don't even have an explanation for why he was as horrible as he was years 1 and 2 (which was "all time bad").  But once I saw improvement in year 3, I got encouraged because I don't think he was a #2 overall pick by accident.  He has skills.  I watched his "every throw" videos (thanks BlaBlaBla!) to try to have a deeper look at what was going on and I really thought it was more his teammates than him.  (And those videos don't even incorporate how bad the CS was).

 

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The strong likelihood is that the kid was never a top tier NFL prospect, got overdrafted based on tools during the Covid year and simply isn't an NFL QB.

I admit it's possible I'll be wrong about him.  But right now my gut is telling me he still has high end skills but needs the right situation to try to figure things out.  I still think it's possible he turns his career around.  

 

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I'd agree he was better in year three than one and two though, because it would be impossible not to be.

I don't even disagree with you on this.  He was that bad his first 2 years.  But I get your point is that, even though he improved, it wasn't by very much and he set the bar incredibly low in his 1st 2 years.  I just think he played better than he was given credit for in year 3 and would've shown more if given a better surrounding cast.  I even think there would've been more debate amongst Jet fans about bringing him back.  I'd love to see ZW in the situation AR8 is going to be given this upcoming year (though ideally with a much better OC).

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5 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

image.thumb.png.32366e5b2789e3934a9804cf5fb0578e.png

image.thumb.png.635e3aad6fac5e44b42394d2ec034ddb.png


youre right he stinks in the playoffs 

 

I don't think we even have any idea what we're in for as far as high-end QB play (assuming AR8 can stay upright this year).  Most Jet fans have probably never seen high-end QB play ever.  Vinny in 1998 was probably the last time and AR8 is way better than Vinny.

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