2009 Jets Defense vs. 2024 Jets Defense: Which one is better?

[Claymation]

While the 2009 Secondary was better, this 2024 DL is head & shoulders better than the '09/'10 teams.

[Joe W. Namath]

Not sure why we go back to 2009/2010 team all the time.  The 1998 team was much better.

Any comparison should be comparing us to the 1998 team.  And the 1998 defense is better the this years d until proven otherwise.

[JetsFlyer]

2009 OL is my pick

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Not sure why we go back to 2009/2010 team all the time.  The 1998 team was much better.

Any comparison should be comparing us to the 1998 team.  And the 1998 defense is better the this years d until proven otherwise.

They are talking about defense and the 2009/2010 defense was way better than that BILL/bill read and react team that spit up 23 in the second half in Denver.

[Joe W. Namath]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

They are talking about defense and the 2009/2010 defense was way better than that BILL/bill read and react team that spit up 23 in the second half in Denver.

No, the 1998 defense was better then the 2009/2010 jet d.

1998 was ranked 2nd in the league.

2010 was ranked 6th in the league.

And yeah, how bad to give up lots of points to an all time back to back super bowl championship team.  Thats really an great iindicator of things.

[Jet Nut]

On 5/13/2024 at 10:00 AM, Joe W. Namath said:

No, the 1998 defense was better then the 2009/2010 jet d.

1998 was ranked 2nd in the league.

2010 was ranked 6th in the league.

And yeah, how bad to give up lots of points to an all time back to back super bowl championship team.  Thats really a great iindicator of things.

2009 D was ranked 1.  That’s the team they compared it to, not the 2010 defense that you switched it to.

[Jet_Engine1]

1 minute ago, Joe W. Namath said:

No, the 1998 defense was better then the 2009/2010 jet d.

1998 was ranked 2nd in the league.

2010 was ranked 6th in the league.

And yeah, how bad to give up lots of points to an all time back to back super bowl championship team.  Thats really an great iindicator of things.

Yes, the Jets Top-5 Offense in 1998 kinda helped, though... 

 

1998 is MY favorite Season as a 52-year-old Jet Fan... but the '09/10 Defense was objectively better. 

[BreeceHallofFame]

2024 D is better. The 2009 team had 1 great player and a good scheme. Also had the benefit of an effective ball control offense on the other side. 

[#27TheDominator]

26 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

No, the 1998 defense was better then the 2009/2010 jet d.

1998 was ranked 2nd in the league.

2010 was ranked 6th in the league.

And yeah, how bad to give up lots of points to an all time back to back super bowl championship team.  Thats really an great iindicator of things.

2009 was ranked 1/1

All-time?  They only won back to back because of that choke show spitting up a 10 point 2nd half lead.  Whining about the conditions while spitting up 23 points is not good form.  

[Claymation]

The 2009 team had Revis, who is arguably one of the greatest top cover CBs of all time. Kerry Rhodes is better than any safety the Jets have had since his departure. Scott and Harris could play the run with the best of them.

That being said...Williams, Reddick and Johnson are the best pass rushers the Jets have had since the early 80's. They won't have to blitz to generate a pass rush like the '09/'10 teams. And MCII: The Electric Bugaloo is the best slot CB the Jets has ever had. This defense is going to punch quite a few teams in the mouth this year.

[Joe W. Namath]

26 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Yes, the Jets Top-5 Offense in 1998 kinda helped, though... 

 

1998 is MY favorite Season as a 52-year-old Jet Fan... but the '09/10 Defense was objectively better. 

I think the 1998 offense hurt in terms of defensive ranking.  It forced other teams to be aggressive and try to score a lot.

Teams did not have to put the foot on the gas to score with the 09 team.  So the defensive numbers look better.

Sorry, but I am taking the Parcells/Bellichek 98 D in a heartbeat.

 

[Barry McCockinner]

'09 until proven otherwise.

[BreeceHallofFame]

16 minutes ago, Claymation said:

The 2009 team had Revis, who is arguably one of the greatest top cover CBs of all time. Kerry Rhodes is better than any safety the Jets have had since his departure. Scott and Harris could play the run with the best of them.

That being said...Williams, Reddick and Johnson are the best pass rushers the Jets have had since the early 80's. They won't have to blitz to generate a pass rush like the '09/'10 teams. And MCII: The Electric Bugaloo is the best slot CB the Jets has ever had. This defense is going to punch quite a few teams in the mouth this year.

Kerry Rhodes was elite for one year in 2006. He was not a huge upgrade over someone like chuck clark in 2009. Harris was a solid run defender but slow as molasses, Bart Scott was a worse version of CJ Mosley- the 2024 backer crew blows 2009 out of the water with two all pros…

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I think the 1998 offense hurt in terms of defensive ranking.  It forced other teams to be aggressive and try to score a lot.

Teams did not have to put the foot on the gas to score with the 09 team.  So the defensive numbers look better.

Sorry, but I am taking the Parcells/Bellichek 98 D in a heartbeat.

 

That's fine.  You're wrong, but that is your prerogative. 

The 2009 team was 1/1.  The 1998 team was 2/7.  Yes, you could argue that they were giving up yardage because they had leads, but 7 is a long way from 1.  People like to complain about the 2009/2010 teams not dominating in the playoffs.  Letting Peyton go off when the corners went down in 2009 and getting run on in 2010 against the Steelers, but the 1998 defensive season was sandwiched by two of the worst breakdowns in my memory.  The Garrison Hearst OT run and the flop in the 3rd quarter in Denver.

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, BreeceHallofFame said:

Kerry Rhodes was elite for one year in 2006. He was not a huge upgrade over someone like chuck clark in 2009. Harris was a solid run defender but slow as molasses, Bart Scott was a worse version of CJ Mosley- the 2024 backer crew blows 2009 out of the water with two all pros…

All two of them?

[Bronx]

19 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

'09 until proven otherwise.

This coaching staff is worst for sure. 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Not sure why we go back to 2009/2010 team all the time.  The 1998 team was much better.

Any comparison should be comparing us to the 1998 team.  And the 1998 defense is better the this years d until proven otherwise.

The 1998 team had way better coaching.  The 2024 team has more talent.

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Not sure why we go back to 2009/2010 team all the time.  The 1998 team was much better.

Any comparison should be comparing us to the 1998 team.  And the 1998 defense is better the this years d until proven otherwise.

Because the 2009 defense was the best we've ever had, obviously.

[UntouchableCrew]

2009 defense was 1st in points against, 1st in yards against, 1st in passing yards against, 1st in passer rating against.

They did this (1st in points against!) despite Mark Sanchez committing 27 turnovers.

They're the measuring stick, seems obvious.

[Claymation]

2 hours ago, BreeceHallofFame said:

Kerry Rhodes was elite for one year in 2006. He was not a huge upgrade over someone like chuck clark in 2009. Harris was a solid run defender but slow as molasses, Bart Scott was a worse version of CJ Mosley- the 2024 backer crew blows 2009 out of the water with two all pros…

Rhodes was solid with the Jets throughout his career, also Mosley and Quincy are sideline to sideline LBs, they are not that great against the run.

[rangerous]

It’s really hard to compare because of their base alignments.  I think the 2009 was better because I think they had better players.  This years team has some really good players but after them it falls off pretty fast.  Plus, Rex got those guys ready to play far better than saleh does.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

2024.

It’s ok to live in the now.

We’re loaded everywhere. 

[Barry McCockinner]

22 minutes ago, rangerous said:

It’s really hard to compare because of their base alignments.  I think the 2009 was better because I think they had better players.  This years team has some really good players but after them it falls off pretty fast.  Plus, Rex got those guys ready to play far better than saleh does.

The 2009 defense relied more on exotic blitzes making it more vulnerable to exploit. It was definitely a better defense than what we've seen from the Saleh scheme so far but also less viable for the long term. Once teams learned how to adjust and exploit Rex never countered. Similar to his dad w/the 46 scheme in a way.

The Saleh scheme doesn't seem to have that top end elite ceiling like the '09 defense but may be more sound and therefore more viable long term. So far the biggest weakness has probably been that we've been vulnerable against the run. I suspect that would be less of a thing if the offense could score points.

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The 2009 defense relied more on exotic blitzes making it more vulnerable to exploit. It was definitely a better defense than what we've seen from the Saleh scheme so far but also less viable for the long term. Once teams learned how to adjust and exploit Rex never countered. Similar to his dad w/the 46 scheme in a way.

The Saleh scheme doesn't seem to have that top end elite ceiling like the '09 defense but may be more sound and therefore more viable long term. So far the biggest weakness has probably been that we've been vulnerable against the run. I suspect that would be less of a thing if the offense could score points.

I don't agree.  What is an "exotic blitz?"  They ran blitzes designed to force teams to throw at Revis who was in single-ish coverage most of the time.  Contrary to most teams with a stud corner Revis was targeted plenty in 2009, despite playing opposite Lito Shepherd.  He had 6 picks and over 30 passes defensed.  The personnel got worse and I think as they fell off the team stopped believing.  Milliner and WIlson were busts.  Rex relied on cover corners and his last year they were starting Darrin Walls and the safety Antonio Allen at CB.  

I don't think you are fair to Rex or to Buddy.  They were great coaches, but not great head coaches or delegators.  I think their issues were more with ego and hubris than teams figuring them out.  FWIW, Buddy had a top 5 defense in 1994, his next to last year in coaching.  How did he do that if he was figured out?

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

That's fine.  You're wrong, but that is your prerogative. 

The 2009 team was 1/1.  The 1998 team was 2/7.  Yes, you could argue that they were giving up yardage because they had leads, but 7 is a long way from 1.  People like to complain about the 2009/2010 teams not dominating in the playoffs.  Letting Peyton go off when the corners went down in 2009 and getting run on in 2010 against the Steelers, but the 1998 defensive season was sandwiched by two of the worst breakdowns in my memory.  The Garrison Hearst OT run and the flop in the 3rd quarter in Denver.

You could also argue the '98 team had an easier schedule. Off the bat there weren't two games against prime Brady*, another against prime Brees, and prime Manning (for half a game, anyway), plus Garrard in his probowl season. 1/3 of the season against probowl QBs. The best argument the other way is the last 1.5 games were against teams benching all their starters (with the Bengals arguably outright tanking the game).

I'm not seeing this big advantage to the 2009 team just because the offense didn't score as much. Sanchez also threw 20 picks and fumbled another 10x (don't remember how many were lost). Even one of Vinnie's rare 7 picks didn't hurt, as it was a before-halftime hail mary that didn't put the D back on the field. 

The '98 team got rookie Manning (the version that was throwing 3 picks/game even against mediocre defenses), Eric Zeier and old Harbaugh, even-older Marino, Tony Banks, the Carroll-supervised Bledsoe (twice), Grbac in his worst season by far, 44 year-old Steve DeBerg pulled out of retirement, Beuerlein, and McNair before he became a polished passer. The good QBs faced were Steve Young, who ate them alive, and Doug Flutie who was more of a good story than good QB. They both had some weak matchups, but the '98 team's defense had an easier go of it. 

The '98 defense was a lot of bend but don't break, as they used to call it. The '09 defense cut off teams' nuts and then went back to shove it in their mouths, even with their own rookie QB discouragingly throwing so many interceptions you'd think it was his intended outcome. The '09 D would've looked a whole lot more dominant if they had a QB with a sub-2% interception rate instead of a 5-6% rate.

[Larz]

24 pass rush will be the difference. 
 

seek and destroy 

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Contrary to most teams with a stud corner Revis was targeted plenty in 2009, despite playing opposite Lito Shepherd.  He had 6 picks and over 30 passes defensed. 

It's one of those things people - even Jets fans - assume, even though it wasn't true, that nobody threw at Revis. I think he was one of the 5 most-targeted CBs in football that year. Nothing like Asomugha, who probably didn't see even half the targets Revis saw that year while he was always on the right sideline even when teams put their 2nd or 3rd best WR over there, like a store selling a loss-leader. 

[Barry McCockinner]

21 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't agree.  What is an "exotic blitz?"  They ran blitzes designed to force teams to throw at Revis who was in single-ish coverage most of the time.  Contrary to most teams with a stud corner Revis was targeted plenty in 2009, despite playing opposite Lito Shepherd.  He had 6 picks and over 30 passes defensed.  The personnel got worse and I think as they fell off the team stopped believing.  Milliner and WIlson were busts.  Rex relied on cover corners and his last year they were starting Darrin Walls and the safety Antonio Allen at CB.  

I don't think you are fair to Rex or to Buddy.  They were great coaches, but not great head coaches or delegators.  I think their issues were more with ego and hubris than teams figuring them out.  FWIW, Buddy had a top 5 defense in 1994, his next to last year in coaching.  How did he do that if he was figured out?

exotic = blitzes coming from anywhere from players or groups of players who traditionally aren't high volume blitzers. Sending 2 corners and dropping DT's/DE's, crap like that. I don't remember a DC sending multiple blitzers as often as Rex did and I loved it.

I don't mean to crap on Rex. I thought he was a really good defensive coach. I also think his scheme was figured out and he didn't adjust. The same happened with the 46 - the WCO really took the teeth out of it.   

[Joe W. Namath]

22 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You could also argue the '98 team had an easier schedule. Off the bat there weren't two games against prime Brady*, another against prime Brees, and prime Manning (for half a game, anyway), plus Garrard in his probowl season. 1/3 of the season against probowl QBs. The best argument the other way is the last 1.5 games were against teams benching all their starters (with the Bengals arguably outright tanking the game).

I'm not seeing this big advantage to the 2009 team just because the offense didn't score as much. Sanchez also threw 20 picks and fumbled another 10x (don't remember how many were lost). Even one of Vinnie's rare 7 picks didn't hurt, as it was a before-halftime hail mary that didn't put the D back on the field. 

The '98 team got rookie Manning (the version that was throwing 3 picks/game even against mediocre defenses), Eric Zeier and old Harbaugh, even-older Marino, Tony Banks, the Carroll-supervised Bledsoe (twice), Grbac in his worst season by far, 44 year-old Steve DeBerg pulled out of retirement, Beuerlein, and McNair before he became a polished passer. The good QBs faced were Steve Young, who ate them alive, and Doug Flutie who was more of a good story than good QB. They both had some weak matchups, but the '98 team's defense had an easier go of it. 

The '98 defense was a lot of bend but don't break, as they used to call it. The '09 defense cut off teams' nuts and then went back to shove it in their mouths, even with their own rookie QB discouragingly throwing so many interceptions you'd think it was his intended outcome. The '09 D would've looked a whole lot more dominant if they had a QB with a sub-2% interception rate instead of a 5-6% rate.

Wow!!!  Really nice breakdown here.  Im still taking the 98 D but you make a compelling arguement.

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The 2009 defense relied more on exotic blitzes making it more vulnerable to exploit. It was definitely a better defense than what we've seen from the Saleh scheme so far but also less viable for the long term. Once teams learned how to adjust and exploit Rex never countered. Similar to his dad w/the 46 scheme in a way.

The Saleh scheme doesn't seem to have that top end elite ceiling like the '09 defense but may be more sound and therefore more viable long term. So far the biggest weakness has probably been that we've been vulnerable against the run. I suspect that would be less of a thing if the offense could score points.

The thing to is that more and more teams are using it.  It’s getting to be the vanilla of defenses.

[Integrity28]

Well, I’m assuming you guys don’t realize that the 2024 season hasn’t been played - therefore there’s no actual answer to this question. Unless, that is, you want to get all uppity arguing over hypotheticals.

[#27TheDominator]

53 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

exotic = blitzes coming from anywhere from players or groups of players who traditionally aren't high volume blitzers. Sending 2 corners and dropping DT's/DE's, crap like that. I don't remember a DC sending multiple blitzers as often as Rex did and I loved it.

I don't mean to crap on Rex. I thought he was a really good defensive coach. I also think his scheme was figured out and he didn't adjust. The same happened with the 46 - the WCO really took the teeth out of it.   

Well, it is fine to agree to disagree I guess.  I don't think Rex really blitzed from anywhere or with players that didn't traditionally blitz.  He just blitzed a ton.  He counted on the front 3 and ILB to stuff the run and sent bodies in a way to force a QB to go specific spots where he would roll his coverage.  He literally never blitzed Revis.

I think you are selling Buddy Ryan way short.  The guy was with top defenses all along.  He wasn't just the 4-6.  He was with the Jets D that emasculated the Colts in the super bowl.  The Purple People Eaters.  The Bears.  He was head coach or DC 16 years and had 9 years top 10 in points (8 top 5 and once #1) and 6 years top 10 in yards (3 top 5, twice #1). Almost every team is running tons of west coast elements.  It's pretty significant when your D causes the entire league to alter their offenses IMO.

[Beerfish]

Easily 2009, not even close.

 

[JohnnyLV]

7 hours ago, Claymation said:

 

That being said...Williams, Reddick and Johnson are the best pass rushers the Jets have had since the early 80's. T

I am no where near as confident as you on these 3. I think losing Huff and replacing him with Reddick is not a slam dunk upgrade at all, and there were stats last year where our defense was much less effective when Huff was not in.Let's hope you are right.

 

I think the season could go south real quick again. I have serious doubts we see anything close to vintage Rodgers, who was clearly declining 2 years ago and is coming off an achilles. And our strategy of hiring a bunch of good on paper but old and often injured players is dubious at best. I fully expect to see Jordan Travis start a game for the Jets this year, and people calling for Saleh's head by Week 10.

[Claymation]

13 hours ago, JohnnyLV said:

I am no where near as confident as you on these 3. I think losing Huff and replacing him with Reddick is not a slam dunk upgrade at all, and there were stats last year where our defense was much less effective when Huff was not in.Let's hope you are right.

 

I think the season could go south real quick again. I have serious doubts we see anything close to vintage Rodgers, who was clearly declining 2 years ago and is coming off an achilles. And our strategy of hiring a bunch of good on paper but old and often injured players is dubious at best. I fully expect to see Jordan Travis start a game for the Jets this year, and people calling for Saleh's head by Week 10.

Huff is a pass rush specialist, nice player...great find. Had a career year last year. But McGriddle fills that pass rush specialist need.

Reddick is a premiere 3 down edge rusher. A FF machine, 13 in the past 4 years. Huff only had 1 in the past 4 years.