My letter to Connor Rogers in defends of Michael Clemmons

[hmhertz]

You are my favorite draft analyst but you screwed up.

Your analyst is largely based on PFF  metrics On a recent pod

you said Michael Clemmons stinks

Clemmons  PFF grade 65.9

Kayvon Thibodeaux 58.4

 

 

Also from PFF 

• The highest-graded run stopper of any defensive lineman in the NFL
• The only edge defender in the NFL to play at least 300 snaps and not miss a tackle
• The second-highest-graded rookie defensive lineman in the NFL, only behind Aidan Hutchinson

Clemons put himself among the game's elite: The only rookie defensive linemen in the PFF era to earn a higher run-defense grade than Clemons were Aaron Donald and Sheldon Richardson

 

MC did not play as well as he did as a rookie,

myguess adjusting to a weight change

Explain your statement

[Barry McCockinner]

in defends

[bicketybam]

Proofreading wouldn't kill you, ya know.

[32EBoozer]

1 minute ago, hmhertz said:

You are my favorite draft analyst but you screwed up.

Your analyst is largely based on PFF  metrics On a recent pod

you said Michael Clemmons stinks

Clemmons  PFF grade 65.9

Kayvon Thibodeaux 58.4

 

 

Also from PFF 

• The highest-graded run stopper of any defensive lineman in the NFL
• The only edge defender in the NFL to play at least 300 snaps and not miss a tackle
• The second-highest-graded rookie defensive lineman in the NFL, only behind Aidan Hutchinson

Clemons put himself among the game's elite: The only rookie defensive linemen in the PFF era to earn a higher run-defense grade than Clemons were Aaron Donald and Sheldon Richardson

 

MC did not play as well as he did as a rookie,

myguess adjusting to a weight change

Explain your statement

Connor Rodgers response:

[The Crusher]

30 minutes ago, hmhertz said:

You are my favorite draft analyst but you screwed up.

Your analyst is largely based on PFF  metrics On a recent pod

you said Michael Clemmons stinks

Clemmons  PFF grade 65.9

Kayvon Thibodeaux 58.4

 

 

Also from PFF 

• The highest-graded run stopper of any defensive lineman in the NFL
• The only edge defender in the NFL to play at least 300 snaps and not miss a tackle
• The second-highest-graded rookie defensive lineman in the NFL, only behind Aidan Hutchinson

Clemons put himself among the game's elite: The only rookie defensive linemen in the PFF era to earn a higher run-defense grade than Clemons were Aaron Donald and Sheldon Richardson

 

MC did not play as well as he did as a rookie,

myguess adjusting to a weight change

Explain your statement

Please post his response. Can’t wait! 

[Beerfish]

When players get worse rather than better they are in jeopardy and that was clemons from last year.

He might not even make the team this year.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

When players get worse rather than better they are in jeopardy and that was clemons from last year.

He might not even make the team this year.

Now that would be a bizarre twist! 

[slats]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

When players get worse rather than better they are in jeopardy and that was clemons from last year.

He might not even make the team this year.

[Untouchable]

No one cares about any of this

[Beerfish]

12 minutes ago, slats said:

You think he played well last year?

Had a few more snaps, .5 sacks after 2.5 year one, was lower in all other stats such as tackles, tackles for loss etc.

Other guys like the dude from michgan have come in and turned heads.

If he does not come out and have a great camp he is on the bubble.

If you do not get better year one to year two you become a suspect not a prospect.

People fall in love with the big mean image but he is nothing special as a player.

[Jack Straw]

I don't love Michael Clemons but it's hard for me to get worked up over the 8th most important defensive linemen on the roster. The dude was on the field for 35% of the snaps last year.

[Doggin94it]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

You think he played well last year?

Had a few more snaps, .5 sacks after 2.5 year one, was lower in all other stats such as tackles, tackles for loss etc.

Other guys like the dude from michgan have come in and turned heads.

If he does not come out and have a great camp he is on the bubble.

If you do not get better year one to year two you become a suspect not a prospect.

People fall in love with the big mean image but he is nothing special as a player.

He's a decent rotational depth lineman. He's not a stud or a game wrecker, but he's not getting abused either. That's perfectly fine for a 4th rd pick. 

[Beerfish]

10 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

He's a decent rotational depth lineman. He's not a stud or a game wrecker, but he's not getting abused either. That's perfectly fine for a 4th rd pick. 

until the next guy comes along who is better.  Because Clemons has a super low ceiling.  

[rex-n-effect]

Why admit he took a step back last year and then want somebody else to defend calling out the same thing you did?

[Integrity28]

Can’t wait to see how Connor claps back.

[peebag]

8 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Can’t wait to see how Connor claps back.

HEAVENS TO MEGAHERTZ!!!

[slats]

19 hours ago, Beerfish said:

You think he played well last year?

Had a few more snaps, .5 sacks after 2.5 year one, was lower in all other stats such as tackles, tackles for loss etc.

Other guys like the dude from michgan have come in and turned heads.

If he does not come out and have a great camp he is on the bubble.

If you do not get better year one to year two you become a suspect not a prospect.

People fall in love with the big mean image but he is nothing special as a player.

There’s no chance he doesn’t make the team this year. I agree with Hertz, the reason his production dropped off is because they had him add weight so he can be the next JFM. Not every Edge has to be a sack artist, this one happens to set the edge and stuff the run rather well. 

[Doggin94it]

16 hours ago, Beerfish said:

until the next guy comes along who is better.  Because Clemons has a super low ceiling.  

Literally every player in the NFL only has a job until the next guy comes along who is better. But if you think most teams' No 7/8 DL are better than Clemons you're out of your mind. 

[Mr. Rogers]

18 hours ago, Beerfish said:

until the next guy comes along who is better.  Because Clemons has a super low ceiling.  

Feels untrue to me. Clemons was selected for his ceiling. He has great length and height, and very good agility. Decent speed. Nasty attitude. It feels like he's wasting potential, rather than lacking it. 

He looked like a good pass rusher in the tough SEC. The concerns when he was drafted were run defense and "off field issues". He's actually been alright on run D - maybe it's distractions or a lack of overall commitment? Or maybe he just hasn't had enough meaningful play time to really develop? I'm a fan of the player, I see why you're discouraged by his step backwards last year but we do need a 4th DE and he seems like the guy. Let's hope more true DE play helps. I don't think he's suited to iDL work at the NFL level.

[JiFtheOracle]

Draft analyst? 

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, Mr. Rogers said:

Feels untrue to me. Clemons was selected for his ceiling. He has great length and height, and very good agility. Decent speed. Nasty attitude. It feels like he's wasting potential, rather than lacking it. 

He looked like a good pass rusher in the tough SEC. The concerns when he was drafted were run defense and "off field issues". He's actually been alright on run D - maybe it's distractions or a lack of overall commitment? Or maybe he just hasn't had enough meaningful play time to really develop? I'm a fan of the player, I see why you're discouraged by his step backwards last year but we do need a 4th DE and he seems like the guy. Let's hope more true DE play helps. I don't think he's suited to iDL work at the NFL level.

He does not have great agility, he is ponderously slow off the ball, he has no passing rushing moves other than a bull rush.

[Mr. Rogers]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

He does not have great agility, he is ponderously slow off the ball, he has no passing rushing moves other than a bull rush.

His agility measureables at the combine were very good. I'd have to agree though - it doesn't seem to translate to an NFL speed that jumps off the screen. I do think he actually sheds blocks decently at this level, but he doesn't pair that with enough speed or technique to generate sacks at this point.

Tbf, he also doesn't have the true pass rusher role we gave to Huff. We need him to be an all-rounder. He should be fine as a depth piece but agreed that he needs to improve if he doesn't want to be replaced long term.

[ElBarrioJets]

23 hours ago, hmhertz said:

You are my favorite draft analyst but you screwed up.

Your analyst is largely based on PFF  metrics On a recent pod

you said Michael Clemmons stinks

Clemmons  PFF grade 65.9

Kayvon Thibodeaux 58.4

 

 

Also from PFF 

• The highest-graded run stopper of any defensive lineman in the NFL
• The only edge defender in the NFL to play at least 300 snaps and not miss a tackle
• The second-highest-graded rookie defensive lineman in the NFL, only behind Aidan Hutchinson

Clemons put himself among the game's elite: The only rookie defensive linemen in the PFF era to earn a higher run-defense grade than Clemons were Aaron Donald and Sheldon Richardson

 

MC did not play as well as he did as a rookie,

myguess adjusting to a weight change

Explain your statement

Lol bro you know he can't see this here right? Like he's not a regular on the board?

[Alka]

5 hours ago, slats said:

There’s no chance he doesn’t make the team this year.

I wouldn't go that far.  The Jets brought in 3 quality undrafted free agents this year, on the defensive line,  and if only 1 of them make the team, then Clemons position on the team might be in jeopardy. 

The players who are locks on the D line: Jermaine Johnson, Javon Kinlaw, Quinnen Williams, Haason Reddick, Will McDonald, Solomon Thomas and Leki Fotu.  That makes 7 sure to make the team.  Can Braiden McGregor, Leonard Taylor III, or Eric Watts outplay Clemons?

I doubt the Jets keep more than 8 defensive linemen on the final roster.  Do you give no chance for one of these guys (or someone not currently on the roster) to supplant Clemons?

[slats]

14 minutes ago, Alka said:

I doubt the Jets keep more than 8 defensive linemen on the final roster.

They carried ten most of last year. They rotate eight and Clemons will be one of those eight. That leaves room for two of McGregor, Taylor, or Watts to make it, too. 

[Mr. Rogers]

39 minutes ago, ElBarrioJets said:

Lol bro you know he can't see this here right? Like he's not a regular on the board?

Hey, you never know! Maybe a guy whose job is researching and writing about the Jets might take an interest in a team forum this size - even if it's really just to gauge "fan reactions" or look for missed tidbits.

Now, whether this post would influence his opinions is another debate lol

[Barry McCockinner]

44 minutes ago, ElBarrioJets said:

Lol bro you know he can't see this here right? Like he's not a regular on the board?

I have it on good authority that Connor posts here.

not really i just made that up.

[Mr. Rogers]

12 minutes ago, slats said:

They carried ten most of last year. They rotate eight and Clemons will be one of those eight. That leaves room for two of McGregor, Taylor, or Watts to make it, too. 

I agree, but I'm wondering if DL is the spot where our "extra" OL will come from. The staff seemed to incidate they'd carry 10 OL this year. My guess is either the WR or DL group carries one less player than last year. Of course, it's possible the roster is constructed differently in multiple ways, but I think Saleh seems to have settled into a groove in that sense.

Anyway yeah, unless we see a herculean effort and pre season, it feels hard to see 2+ UDFAs making the roster and knocking Clemons off. Only an unexpected free agent could possibly put him on the bubble.

[rex-n-effect]

1 hour ago, ElBarrioJets said:

Lol bro you know he can't see this here right? Like he's not a regular on the board?

His scribe wrote it by quill on a scroll and it's currently in flight in his carrier's pigeon's claw.

[Alka]

9 hours ago, slats said:

They carried ten most of last year. They rotate eight and Clemons will be one of those eight. That leaves room for two of McGregor, Taylor, or Watts to make it, too. 

I don't care how many they keep, but they better keep at least 9 offensive linemen this year.  Tyron Smith is sure to be out for a few games, and you never know with AVT, and Warren was injured for much of last season.  Not to mention an aging Moses at right tackle with his torn pec from last season, having torn 60% of his pec.  Not carrying enough offensive linemen and keeping 10 defensive linemen would be malpractice. Personally, I would like to see the Jets keep 10 on the offensive line, but I'm not sure that is doable.

[Mr. Rogers]

2 hours ago, Alka said:

I don't care how many they keep, but they better keep at least 9 offensive linemen this year.  Tyron Smith is sure to be out for a few games, and you never know with AVT, and Warren was injured for much of last season.  Not to mention an aging Moses at right tackle with his torn pec from last season, having torn 60% of his pec.  Not carrying enough offensive linemen and keeping 10 defensive linemen would be malpractice. Personally, I would like to see the Jets keep 10 on the offensive line, but I'm not sure that is doable.

They kept 9 last year and admitted it was a mistake. As I've said elsewhere, I'm betting they do keep 10 this year, probably by keeping either 9 DL or 6WR this time. Could be from another position too, it's not that hard to rebalance the roster and practice squad 

[slats]

8 hours ago, Alka said:

I don't care how many they keep, but they better keep at least 9 offensive linemen this year.  Tyron Smith is sure to be out for a few games, and you never know with AVT, and Warren was injured for much of last season.  Not to mention an aging Moses at right tackle with his torn pec from last season, having torn 60% of his pec.  Not carrying enough offensive linemen and keeping 10 defensive linemen would be malpractice. Personally, I would like to see the Jets keep 10 on the offensive line, but I'm not sure that is doable.

Difference between the two is that the team would hope to only play five OL all season long while they go into every game planning to rotate eight DL. I wouldn’t carry more than eight OL on the 53, but I’d have a couple bodies on the practice squad to promote if the whole thing falls apart again. They’ll probably keep nine, though, with two backup OTs. 

[Sammybighead]

Guys, you're all missing the big picture here. If all we have left to complain about is Michael clemmons, we must have a superbowl roster finally!

Sit back and enjoy the ride

[Doggin94it]

22 hours ago, Alka said:

I wouldn't go that far.  The Jets brought in 3 quality undrafted free agents this year, on the defensive line,  and if only 1 of them make the team, then Clemons position on the team might be in jeopardy. 

The players who are locks on the D line: Jermaine Johnson, Javon Kinlaw, Quinnen Williams, Haason Reddick, Will McDonald, Solomon Thomas and Leki Fotu.  That makes 7 sure to make the team.  Can Braiden McGregor, Leonard Taylor III, or Eric Watts outplay Clemons?

I doubt the Jets keep more than 8 defensive linemen on the final roster.  Do you give no chance for one of these guys (or someone not currently on the roster) to supplant Clemons?

They'll keep at least 9 DL, probably 10, given the way they rotate. Their opening day roster in 2022 had 11 (5DT, 6 Edge). Last year's opening day roster was 10 DL. No way they only keep 8.

[Alka]

6 hours ago, slats said:

Difference between the two is that the team would hope to only play five OL all season long while they go into every game planning to rotate eight DL. I wouldn’t carry more than eight OL on the 53, but I’d have a couple bodies on the practice squad to promote if the whole thing falls apart again. They’ll probably keep nine, though, with two backup OTs. 

I understand what you are saying, but I think we all know that the Jets will need to spell Tyron Smith for at least 4 to 5 games, due to his history.  Of course we hope he plays all 17, but that would be foolish to count on.  Assuming the other 4 stay completely healthy, then keeping 8 would be the way to go.  Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.  Last year, was the worst, and there is no way to plan for that scenario.  I think you are correct, and they will keep no more than 9, and no less than 8.