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The great DH debate


AFJF

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That has always mystified me....why in the world wouldn't a team throw at a pitcher who just drilled one of their guys? I don't get it. You hit our guy, now we're gonna hit you.

I did love how Clemens went to the NL and completely dominated though after years of hearing Mets fans say the he's a pussy who hides behind the DH and wouldn't be able to get it done in the NL. The guy was only twice the pitcher in the big bad NL that he was in the AL.

Roger won in the NL because he concentrated on throwing strikes instead of headhunting like he did in the AL.

Roger's a great pitcher, but in my mind, the most gutless pitcher in recent memory. In the AL, he threw at people, in interleague he threw at people, (as long as it was in an AL park), and when he goes where he has to come up to the plate, he doesn't hit anyone.

I wish Piazza had beat the crap out of him with the broken bat. Of course, big bad Roger would have run away and hid first.

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i still like no DH,,

weak link is akin to every army, battle etc. exploit the weakness and plan ahead for it,,

its like leting a DH foul shooter in the NBA for say, Shaq,,bottom line strategy says foul Shaq in close game at end,,,

i love the startegy,,

does anyone really want DH foul shooters???

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i still like no DH,,

weak link is akin to every army, battle etc. exploit the weakness and plan ahead for it,,

its like leting a DH foul shooter in the NBA for say, Shaq,,bottom line strategy says foul Shaq in close game at end,,,

i love the startegy,,

does anyone really want DH foul shooters???

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i still like no DH,,

weak link is akin to every army, battle etc. exploit the weakness and plan ahead for it,,

its like leting a DH foul shooter in the NBA for say, Shaq,,bottom line strategy says foul Shaq in close game at end,,,

i love the startegy,,

does anyone really want DH foul shooters???

I respect your opinion southern, but IMO sports is not war. It's competition, and as a fan I want to see the most capable people when it's all on the line. I don't want to tune in to a game and watch Jorge Julio battle it out with Danny Kolb because Pedro and Smoltz had to be lifted for pinch hitters. Again, JMO.

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i still like no DH,,

weak link is akin to every army, battle etc. exploit the weakness and plan ahead for it,,

its like leting a DH foul shooter in the NBA for say, Shaq,,bottom line strategy says foul Shaq in close game at end,,,

i love the startegy,,

does anyone really want DH foul shooters???

I respect your opinion southern, but IMO sports is not war. It's competition, and as a fan I want to see the most capable people when it's all on the line. I don't want to tune in to a game and watch Jorge Julio battle it out with Danny Kolb because Pedro and Smoltz had to be lifted for pinch hitters. Again, JMO.

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I respect your opinion southern, but IMO sports is not war. It's competition, and as a fan I want to see the most capable people when it's all on the line. I don't want to tune in to a game and watch Jorge Julio battle it out with Danny Kolb because Pedro and Smoltz had to be lifted for pinch hitters. Again, JMO.

do u want dh foul shooters?

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I respect your opinion southern, but IMO sports is not war. It's competition, and as a fan I want to see the most capable people when it's all on the line. I don't want to tune in to a game and watch Jorge Julio battle it out with Danny Kolb because Pedro and Smoltz had to be lifted for pinch hitters. Again, JMO.

do u want dh foul shooters?

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If pitchers would work on their hitting as much as their pitching rather than just focusing on one aspect of their game,the DH wouldn't be needed.

If minor league pitchers would put in the time and effort in the cages and in BP that they do in bullpen sessions and simulated games,then maybe teams could be weened off of DH'ing...just a thought on the subject.

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If pitchers would work on their hitting as much as their pitching rather than just focusing on one aspect of their game,the DH wouldn't be needed.

If minor league pitchers would put in the time and effort in the cages and in BP that they do in bullpen sessions and simulated games,then maybe teams could be weened off of DH'ing...just a thought on the subject.

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do u want dh foul shooters?

Okay, now we've gone from war to NBA free throw DH's, not sure I meant for the discussion to go this route.

What do I want?

Athletes who are even moderately capalbe of accomplishing an assigned job. Or I guess I could just say I want pitchers who know how to hit, or american league DH baseball.

As in the original context of this thread, no more expecting and accepting failure.

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do u want dh foul shooters?

Okay, now we've gone from war to NBA free throw DH's, not sure I meant for the discussion to go this route.

What do I want?

Athletes who are even moderately capalbe of accomplishing an assigned job. Or I guess I could just say I want pitchers who know how to hit, or american league DH baseball.

As in the original context of this thread, no more expecting and accepting failure.

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If pitchers would work on their hitting as much as their pitching rather than just focusing on one aspect of their game,the DH wouldn't be needed.

If minor league pitchers would put in the time and effort in the cages and in BP that they do in bullpen sessions and simulated games,then maybe teams could be weened off of DH'ing...just a thought on the subject.

Exactly, as I've said..I'm fine with no DH if pitchers learn to hit, if they continute to go up there and embarass themselves, then just stop it.

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If pitchers would work on their hitting as much as their pitching rather than just focusing on one aspect of their game,the DH wouldn't be needed.

If minor league pitchers would put in the time and effort in the cages and in BP that they do in bullpen sessions and simulated games,then maybe teams could be weened off of DH'ing...just a thought on the subject.

Exactly, as I've said..I'm fine with no DH if pitchers learn to hit, if they continute to go up there and embarass themselves, then just stop it.

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Okay, now we've gone from war to NBA free throw DH's, not sure I meant for the discussion to go this route.

What do I want?

Athletes who are even moderately capalbe of accomplishing an assigned job. Or I guess I could just say I want pitchers who know how to hit, or american league DH baseball.

As in the original context of this thread, no more expecting and accepting failure.

yup, but in AL a weak pitcher has been removed when its his turn to bat,,so does logic say you want a weak free throw shooter to be able to sit when the yare fouled,,i ask becasue there are a fair amout of fans who bring this up every year,,,

weaknesses on teams are part of the game,, knowing how to exploit,,

do you want designated runners who are real fast to be able to come in for slow runners, but allow the slow guy to stay in game?

if you peel the onion its gets interesting, then all you have left is a computer game,,,

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Okay, now we've gone from war to NBA free throw DH's, not sure I meant for the discussion to go this route.

What do I want?

Athletes who are even moderately capalbe of accomplishing an assigned job. Or I guess I could just say I want pitchers who know how to hit, or american league DH baseball.

As in the original context of this thread, no more expecting and accepting failure.

yup, but in AL a weak pitcher has been removed when its his turn to bat,,so does logic say you want a weak free throw shooter to be able to sit when the yare fouled,,i ask becasue there are a fair amout of fans who bring this up every year,,,

weaknesses on teams are part of the game,, knowing how to exploit,,

do you want designated runners who are real fast to be able to come in for slow runners, but allow the slow guy to stay in game?

if you peel the onion its gets interesting, then all you have left is a computer game,,,

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yup, but in AL a weak pitcher has been removed when its his turn to bat,,so does logic say you want a weak free throw shooter to be able to sit when the yare fouled,,i ask becasue there are a fair amout of fans who bring this up every year,,,

weaknesses on teams are part of the game,, knowing how to exploit,,

do you want designated runners who are real fast to be able to come in for slow runners, but allow the slow guy to stay in game?

if you peel the onion its gets interesting, then all you have left is a computer game,,,

I don't want to make any radical, micro management type of rule changes. I want American League baseball until pitchers learn to hit, plain and simple. No more accepting failure from a guy doing something with what amounts to zero expectations.

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yup, but in AL a weak pitcher has been removed when its his turn to bat,,so does logic say you want a weak free throw shooter to be able to sit when the yare fouled,,i ask becasue there are a fair amout of fans who bring this up every year,,,

weaknesses on teams are part of the game,, knowing how to exploit,,

do you want designated runners who are real fast to be able to come in for slow runners, but allow the slow guy to stay in game?

if you peel the onion its gets interesting, then all you have left is a computer game,,,

I don't want to make any radical, micro management type of rule changes. I want American League baseball until pitchers learn to hit, plain and simple. No more accepting failure from a guy doing something with what amounts to zero expectations.

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Another point is a lot of these DH's can't play the field worth a dam and would be removed for a defensive substitution during the late innings of NL games.

It has good and bad points.

I guess it's best point is it extends careers, Bernie , Frank Thomas, Nevin, etc.

the extend career thing bothers me though,,

on one hand they say get th eweak pitchers bat out of the game , but keep the old vet wo can only hit, but cant really run or play defense,,

its a odd oxymoron...

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Another point is a lot of these DH's can't play the field worth a dam and would be removed for a defensive substitution during the late innings of NL games.

It has good and bad points.

I guess it's best point is it extends careers, Bernie , Frank Thomas, Nevin, etc.

the extend career thing bothers me though,,

on one hand they say get th eweak pitchers bat out of the game , but keep the old vet wo can only hit, but cant really run or play defense,,

its a odd oxymoron...

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Another point is a lot of these DH's can't play the field worth a dam and would be removed for a defensive substitution during the late innings of NL games.

It has good and bad points.

I guess it's best point is it extends careers, Bernie , Frank Thomas, Nevin, etc.

Thats a whole different aspect of the DH debate and in all honesty, I'd have no problem with the league saying a player can only have so many starts at DH. I think one reason for the DH was to give a regular player a day where he could hit but get a little rest. I dont like the fact that its become an excuse to not play the field. Again, thats a whole different issue.

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Another point is a lot of these DH's can't play the field worth a dam and would be removed for a defensive substitution during the late innings of NL games.

It has good and bad points.

I guess it's best point is it extends careers, Bernie , Frank Thomas, Nevin, etc.

Thats a whole different aspect of the DH debate and in all honesty, I'd have no problem with the league saying a player can only have so many starts at DH. I think one reason for the DH was to give a regular player a day where he could hit but get a little rest. I dont like the fact that its become an excuse to not play the field. Again, thats a whole different issue.

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Actually Faye Vincent tells the story that Bart Giamatti was going to abolishing the DH was next on his agenda before his untimely death.

Bart was a purist and hated the DH and Pete rose,,haha

sidebar: Barts son is current Sideways actor Paul Giamatti

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Actually Faye Vincent tells the story that Bart Giamatti was going to abolishing the DH was next on his agenda before his untimely death.

Bart was a purist and hated the DH and Pete rose,,haha

sidebar: Barts son is current Sideways actor Paul Giamatti

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Actually Faye Vincent tells the story that Bart Giamatti was going to abolishing the DH was next on his agenda before his untimely death.

Bart was a purist and hated the DH and Pete rose,,haha

sidebar: Barts son is current Sideways actor Paul Giamatti

Damn was that the worst movie of all time

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Actually Faye Vincent tells the story that Bart Giamatti was going to abolishing the DH was next on his agenda before his untimely death.

Bart was a purist and hated the DH and Pete rose,,haha

sidebar: Barts son is current Sideways actor Paul Giamatti

Damn was that the worst movie of all time

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Here's my opinion on the DH rule. While I am a partial "traditionalist", I do believe the game can (and does) evolve with time. Things like the wildcard are something that I consider necessary for the growth of the sport in the expansion era. I don't believe the DH rule gives the AL any more of an advantage over the NL and vice versa. Nor do I believe having the pitcher hit is an unnecessary move in the national league. This is what makes Baseball unique. You have one major league divided into 2 sub leagues, which differing rules for each. In the AL, you have the DH rule and in the NL, pitchers bat and you have the double switch. Baseball is probably the only sport where something like this could happen. Can you imagine in football if the AFC extra points were 3 pts and the NFC they were 4?

As far as the World Series is concerned, the DH rule doesn't give the AL any more of an advantage than it gives the NL. The NL still uses the DH when it comes into the AL park, and the AL pitcher still has to hit when he comes into the NL park. Someone could argue that the NL is at a disadvantage when playing at an AL park during the series because they don't have anyone adequate to be a DH, but most bench players on NL rosters would be Designated Hitters in the AL anyway. Case in point last year, Jeff Bagwell DHed during the World Series.

The DH has been around for 33 years and for the most part, nothing has really changed. The same basic rules that have been in place for 100 years are still there. It's still 3 strikes and your out.

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SJ, the designated foul shooter is a great comparison... when a guy like shaq goes to the line, you pretty much expect failure as well... missing one of 2 is often "failure" late in a game...

Thats a great comparison about one single player expected to miss. If every free throw shooter in the NBA missed 90% of their free throws I think it would be done away with. Thats why I specified in the original post that I wasn't referring to individual players who are bad at one task as opposed to several hundred players that fall in to one category that everybody else has to do.

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Thats a great comparison about one single player expected to miss. If every free throw shooter in the NBA missed 90% of their free throws I think it would be done away with. Thats why I specified in the original post that I wasn't referring to individual players who are bad at one task as opposed to several hundred players that fall in to one category that everybody else has to do.

I think it's fair to say that about 1 out of 9 NBA players are poor free throw shooters.

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I think it's fair to say that about 1 out of 9 NBA players are poor free throw shooters.

A terrible hitter in MLB would get roughly one hit every 9 or 10 times up.

A terrible foul shooter would make 5 free throws for every ten shots.

This is a bad analogy.

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