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Why is being somewhere between the 5th and 10th best player of All Time so hard for Lebron fans?


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I don't have a dog in this fight, but maybe dumb statements like this "between the 5th and 10th" are the reason why.

My list begins and ends with Larry Bird.  

I do not particularly care for Lebron.  Especially, the soccer like dives when being brushed against. 

I get placing MJ ahead of him.  I can understand, even though I do not necessarily agree, of placing Kareem ahead of him.  I cannot see an argument for anyone else much less six other players.  Even Bird.

 

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I hate the whole "Greatest of all time" argument.

People who say this, do you know who Oscar Robertson is?   Do you know anything about Wilt, about Kareem, about Bird? 

Same as, "Today's team would kill that team, it wouldn't even be a contest."  What rules are you playing with?  Can you imagine LeBron against the Bad Boys?  If today's players are bigger, stronger, faster, better training, then why do they need so much time off? 

All you can say is, "This person was the best in his era". 

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23 hours ago, chirorob said:

I hate the whole "Greatest of all time" argument.

People who say this, do you know who Oscar Robertson is?   Do you know anything about Wilt, about Kareem, about Bird? 

Same as, "Today's team would kill that team, it wouldn't even be a contest."  What rules are you playing with?  Can you imagine LeBron against the Bad Boys?  If today's players are bigger, stronger, faster, better training, then why do they need so much time off? 

All you can say is, "This person was the best in his era". 

The GOAT conversation is damn near impossible because of era, positions, rule changes, etc.  Hell, even golf you could argue Jack over Tiger even though I think even Jack agrees Tiger was clearly the most talented golfer of all time.  The one sport that is the exception, is Basketball. Jordan was the GOAT and saying that is not a knock on Robertson, Wilt or Bird or any other all timer, Jordan was the best ever, doesn’t matter what generation, what era, Jordan would have still been Jordan and as great as all of of these guys were, they couldnt do what Jordan could do.  Nobody ever had the total package like him and maybe never will and that’s ok, nothing wrong with the truth.  He’s Jordan 

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On 6/10/2024 at 9:59 AM, HessStation said:

top 10 all time is still pretty great! Why do you guys get so upset?

 

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Sometimes, I think top 10 is generous.  People forget how many times he just out right gave up on the court.  sh*t these other dudes would never do. 

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On 6/10/2024 at 2:49 PM, PFSIKH said:

I don't have a dog in this fight, but maybe dumb statements like this "between the 5th and 10th" are the reason why.

My list begins and ends with Larry Bird.  

I do not particularly care for Lebron.  Especially, the soccer like dives when being brushed against. 

I get placing MJ ahead of him.  I can understand, even though I do not necessarily agree, of placing Kareem ahead of him.  I cannot see an argument for anyone else much less six other players.  Even Bird.

 

Disagree.  I would put Bird and Magic ahead of him with MJ No. 1.  Bill Russell is in the conversation, Kobe, Robertson, West. There's an argument to be made that Steph Curry was the most game changing player in the NBA while James was in his prime. 

 

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17 hours ago, Biggs said:

Disagree.  I would put Bird and Magic ahead of him with MJ No. 1.  Bill Russell is in the conversation, Kobe, Robertson, West. There's an argument to be made that Steph Curry was the most game changing player in the NBA while James was in his prime. 

 

Good Points.

Wherever you place Lebron, he "is in the conversation" after MJ.  To start at 5 is disingenuous.

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Elgin Baylor always gets ignored in these discussions because he was never able to get over the hump against Boston and no one respects the NBA of his era.

But the dude still holds the record for the most points in an NBA Finals game (61) and averaged 27/14 in Finals games despite all those tough matchups with Boston.  And only LeBron, Kobe, and Karl Malone had more 1st-team All-NBA selections than Elgin (10) and that was only because the former had much longer careers - Baylor was only in the NBA a total of 14 seasons.

As a scorer he was Jordan before Jordan and would have been elite in any era.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/20/2024 at 8:52 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

Elgin Baylor always gets ignored in these discussions because he was never able to get over the hump against Boston and no one respects the NBA of his era.

But the dude still holds the record for the most points in an NBA Finals game (61) and averaged 27/14 in Finals games despite all those tough matchups with Boston.  And only LeBron, Kobe, and Karl Malone had more 1st-team All-NBA selections than Elgin (10) and that was only because the former had much longer careers - Baylor was only in the NBA a total of 14 seasons.

As a scorer he was Jordan before Jordan and would have been elite in any era.

To add to the argument, there was lot less teams in the NBA during that time.  Expansion really watered down the competition.

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55 minutes ago, peebag said:

To add to the argument, there was lot less teams in the NBA during that time.  Expansion really watered down the competition.

For a time, definitely.  But the international expansion of the game has made rosters more talented top-to-bottom than ever before.  The quality of the game still sucks but there's never been more talented basketball players per team than there are right now and it'll only get better in that respect.

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10 hours ago, SuperPitch said:

It’s tough because LeBron fans want him to be the GOAT, not just top 5-10. Anything less feels like a letdown compared to the hype.

I haven't followed the nba in years, but LeBron fan boys are often more delusional than the Brady Bunch. Or our own Brocktologists during draft time. I digress though. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/11/2024 at 4:58 PM, JustInFudge said:

The GOAT conversation is damn near impossible because of era, positions, rule changes, etc.  Hell, even golf you could argue Jack over Tiger even though I think even Jack agrees Tiger was clearly the most talented golfer of all time.  The one sport that is the exception, is Basketball. Jordan was the GOAT and saying that is not a knock on Robertson, Wilt or Bird or any other all timer, Jordan was the best ever, doesn’t matter what generation, what era, Jordan would have still been Jordan and as great as all of of these guys were, they couldnt do what Jordan could do.  Nobody ever had the total package like him and maybe never will and that’s ok, nothing wrong with the truth.  He’s Jordan 

Hmmmm Wilt was. Nobody could guard Wilt.  Nobody.

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Basketball is a bore now. They ruined the game with that stupid 3 pointer. Teams go 3 point crazy now. It has just eliminated the strategy of the center and power forward. Rebounding, defense, passing is an afterthought. I remember when Jerry Lucas of the Knicks used to hit 35 ft shots and it was an anomaly. And he’d drain them. Or downtown Freddie Brown from the SuperSonics or Chenier from the Bullets. Those guys could shoot BUT it only counted for 2 points and it wasn’t like they were hoisting 20 shots from 30-35 feet out. If the 3 point play wasn’t a rule, a lot of teams wouldn’t have  won championships. It’s just blasphemies the game for ‘more points’. 

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@HessStation I can't be the only one who thinks LeBron nicknaming his kid "Bronny" is cringeworthy.  And if that was Bronny's own choice to call himself that it isn't any less cringeworthy.  

Only way it could be turned into something positive is if he went by Bronny James Dio.

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