Breer article on Saleh

[Matt39]

If the adversity is/was self inflicted, can you really use it as a rallying cry?

 

 

[Jet Nut]

Rodgers injury wasn’t self inflicted.  

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Rodgers injury wasn’t self inflicted.  

Playing a quarterback who can’t play, however, was. 

[bicketybam]

10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Playing a quarterback who can’t play, however, was. 

When Rodgers went down, his choices were Wilson and Boyle. Not sure what you are talking about.

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

When Rodgers went down, his choices were Wilson and Boyle. Not sure what you are talking about.

I mean as a collective. The organizational decision to carry Wilson as the two and then not move off of him was a self inflicted move. There’s no adversity to overcome when you create the problem in which everyone on the outside knew was obvious. For once, this regime could stop the gaslighting and admit they messed up. 

[bicketybam]

Just now, Matt39 said:

I mean as a collective. The organizational decision to carry Wilson as the two and then not move off of him was a self inflicted move. There’s no adversity to overcome when you create the problem in which everyone on the outside knew was obvious.

You can't try to overcome the adversity of your own mistakes? If you accidentally cut yourself with your table saw, should you just sit there and watch yourself bleed out? 😅

[Matt39]

7 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

You can't try to overcome the adversity of your own mistakes? If you accidentally cut yourself with your table saw, should you just sit there and watch yourself bleed out? 😅

That’s more or less what the Jets did with letting Wilson sabotage this season. 

[Dcat]

32 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

If the adversity is/was self inflicted, can you really use it as a rallying cry?

LOL.  Sure.

I'll enjoy another stupid thread.
 

[bicketybam]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

That’s more or less what the Jets did with letting Wilson sabotage this season. 

The Jets/Douglas took a massive gamble that Rodgers would stay healthy and Wilson would not have to start any meaningful games. 8 of Rodgers' previous 9 seasons he started every game. But as Jets luck would have it, he suffered a freak achilles tear 4 snaps into the season. Massive gamble lost. At that point I don't see who they could have signed that would have saved their season. If you want to make a case that they could have signed player X and made the playoffs, fine, but they weren't achieving their ultimate goal and their draft position would have been even worse. Maybe the mistake was not letting Wilson start every game? Or starting Boyle in week 2 and for the rest of the year. But that would be a hard sell to the other guys on the team, especially a guy like G. Wilson.

[Matt39]

16 minutes ago, Dcat said:

LOL.  Sure.

I'll enjoy another stupid thread.
 

What?

[Jet Nut]

50 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Playing a quarterback who can’t play, however, was. 

Doesn’t change the fact that everything would have been different if Rodgers Achilles wasn’t ready to snap and did.  

Even if they should have had someone else in place, isnt the point that adversity makes you stronger?  Not an excuse to point fingers and blame.

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

I blame it all on CJ Uzomah, taking these guys to Broadway shows and events. Had them all focusing on everything but the games. 

It’s all business now baby. 

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Doesn’t change the fact that everything would have been different if Rodgers Achilles wasn’t ready to snap and did.  

Even if they should have had someone else in place, isnt the point that adversity makes you stronger?  Not an excuse to point fingers and blame.

 

Did last season make the Jets stronger by immediately punting it after Rodgers went down?  They didn’t even try to figure out QB.

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Did last season make the Jets stronger by immediately punting it after Rodgers went down?  They didn’t even try to figure out QB.

No.

Has nothing to do with his point, the players will be stronger for it.  
Is it that hard?  

[Mogglez]

52 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

When Rodgers went down, his choices were Wilson and Boyle. Not sure what you are talking about.

 

49 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I mean as a collective. The organizational decision to carry Wilson as the two and then not move off of him was a self inflicted move. There’s no adversity to overcome when you create the problem in which everyone on the outside knew was obvious. For once, this regime could stop the gaslighting and admit they messed up. 

 

47 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

You can't try to overcome the adversity of your own mistakes? If you accidentally cut yourself with your table saw, should you just sit there and watch yourself bleed out? 😅

 

39 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

That’s more or less what the Jets did with letting Wilson sabotage this season. 

 

27 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

The Jets/Douglas took a massive gamble that Rodgers would stay healthy and Wilson would not have to start any meaningful games. 8 of Rodgers' previous 9 seasons he started every game. But as Jets luck would have it, he suffered a freak achilles tear 4 snaps into the season. Massive gamble lost. At that point I don't see who they could have signed that would have saved their season. If you want to make a case that they could have signed player X and made the playoffs, fine, but they weren't achieving their ultimate goal and their draft position would have been even worse. Maybe the mistake was not letting Wilson start every game? Or starting Boyle in week 2 and for the rest of the year. But that would be a hard sell to the other guys on the team, especially a guy like G. Wilson.

 

7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Doesn’t change the fact that everything would have been different if Rodgers Achilles wasn’t ready to snap and did.  

Even if they should have had someone else in place, isnt the point that adversity makes you stronger?  Not an excuse to point fingers and blame.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Did last season make the Jets stronger by immediately punting it after Rodgers went down?  They didn’t even try to figure out QB.

Gonna be honest folks.  Matt and I fundamentally disagree on a lot…but he is spot on here.  If the gameplan was to truly let Wilson develop and not play in anything other than blowout wins, which seemed to be the case, they should have had someone like Jameis Winston or Tyrod Taylor locked in last year as QB2.  There’s a lot that this regime doesn’t get credit for that they deserve credit for, but they completely and utterly botched last season for no good reason that can be explained away, under any circumstance.

[rbstern]

The gamble was the o-line.  That's the controllable part that blew up.  Z.Wilson probably could have gotten them to 9, maybe 10 wins with solid o-line play.  A better backup QB wouldn't have helped much with how the o-line panned out.  A healthy Aaron Rodgers, behind that o-line, wouldn't have lasted a meaningful portion of the season.

The moves this offseason are an acknowledgement of last year's o-line meltdown.

[Mogglez]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No.

Has nothing to do with his point, the players will be stronger for it.  
Is it that hard?  

They could have been even stronger if we had a capable QB2 and made the playoffs last year.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, rbstern said:

The gamble was the o-line.  That's the controllable part that blew up.  Z.Wilson probably could have gotten them to 9, maybe 10 wins with solid o-line play.  A better backup QB wouldn't have helped much with how the o-line panned out.  A healthy Aaron Rodgers, behind that o-line, wouldn't have lasted a meaningful portion of the season.

The moves this offseason are an acknowledgement of last year's o-line meltdown.

The oline will always be a cop out excuse for those that can’t admit that Wilson had no business being on the field. And the Jets knew it but still felt it was ok to punt the season and gaslight into pretending they weren’t. If anything garbage ass Simein should have been playing by week 4, because at least he was professionally functional.

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

They could have been even stronger if we had a capable QB2 and made the playoffs last year.

Yeah. I don’t see how anyone got stronger last year when everyone knew Zach could not play at all. It was all bullsh*t. You’re not selling me on they thought Zach could compete.

[T0mShane]

56 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I mean as a collective. The organizational decision to carry Wilson as the two and then not move off of him was a self inflicted move. There’s no adversity to overcome when you create the problem in which everyone on the outside knew was obvious. For once, this regime could stop the gaslighting and admit they messed up. 

Woody Johnson, baby

[slats]

51 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I mean as a collective. The organizational decision to carry Wilson as the two and then not move off of him was a self inflicted move. There’s no adversity to overcome when you create the problem in which everyone on the outside knew was obvious. For once, this regime could stop the gaslighting and admit they messed up. 

This is the great mystery. However, we can probably quite safely remove Saleh as the culprit in keeping Zach not only on the roster but on the field. We don’t know if there was a directive from the top, or if Rodgers’ fantasy of returning to the field last year impaired their collective judgement, but Saleh never seemed to even want Zach. Internally, the team may have a better idea of what that “adversity” was than we do. 

[bicketybam]

11 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Did last season make the Jets stronger by immediately punting it after Rodgers went down?  They didn’t even try to figure out QB.

Starting Wilson made it abundantly apparent that he was never going to get it and they traded him in the off-season. If he was QB3 he would probably still be in the team.....like you kept predicting and were comically wrong about.

[T0mShane]

An interesting thought is this: Saleh isn’t even a factor in how well the Jets do this season. He runs the defense, which Ulbrich can do just as well at this point. If Saleh quit in January and they elevated Ulbrich, are the Jets any worse off today? 

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

This is the great mystery. However, we can probably quite safely remove Saleh as the culprit in keeping Zach not only on the roster but on the field. We don’t know if there was a directive from the top, or if Rodgers’ fantasy of returning to the field last year impaired their collective judgement, but Saleh never seemed to even want Zach. Internally, the team may have a better idea of what that “adversity” was than we do. 

Fair way of looking at it. In that case, it would make more sense.

[bicketybam]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The oline will always be a cop out excuse for those that can’t admit that Wilson had no business being on the field. And the Jets knew it but still felt it was ok to punt the season and gaslight into pretending they weren’t. If anything garbage ass Simein should have been playing by week 4, because at least he was professionally functional.

He had a worse passer rating than Wilson.

[Mogglez]

10 minutes ago, rbstern said:

The gamble was the o-line.  That's the controllable part that blew up.  Z.Wilson probably could have gotten them to 9, maybe 10 wins with solid o-line play.  A better backup QB wouldn't have helped much with how the o-line panned out.  A healthy Aaron Rodgers, behind that o-line, wouldn't have lasted a meaningful portion of the season.

The moves this offseason are an acknowledgement of last year's o-line meltdown.

If you watched the tape, the o-line played one of it’s best games in week 3, but got mauled in the stats department because Wilson refused to play fast and get rid of the ball on time.  The o-line, throughout the whole season, was not great…but the QB play dragged them down to a substantially worse level.  Trevor Siemian wasn’t fantastic, but he was leagues better than Wilson or Boyle pre-snap and it shouldn’t be a surprise that some of the OLs best games came with him under center.

[freestater]

The resilience that shone through in a 3–1 October, after Aaron Rodgers went down, was wearing thin. The New York Jets’ injuries were mounting and, at 4–7, any idea of going to the playoffs behind Zach Wilson, Tim Boyle, Trevor Siemian or whomever else they’d roll out there at quarterback was quickly slipping away.

Something needed to change.

So the coaches dug in on their offense, one that averaged just nine points per game through the Jets’ winless November, with the final straw being a 34–13 Black Friday loss to the Miami Dolphins, one in which the team’s only points in the first 55 minutes came on a pick-six, and New York rushed for a grand total of 29 yards.

“We went into last offseason, first year in the new offense, first year with a Hall of Fame quarterback, and we installed an offense designed for 17 games worth of Aaron Rodgers,” Jets coach Robert Saleh said Saturday, the first day of his summer break. “When he got hurt, we still wanted to maintain what we installed. Maybe it wasn’t as much as Aaron would have done. But we wanted to keep the same philosophy of what we’re trying to get done.

“As the year went on, and injuries started to pile up, we realized that there needed to be a shift in philosophy.”

Saleh, coordinator Nathaniel Hackett and the offensive coaches didn’t reinvent the wheel with the mini-bye they got from playing early on Thanksgiving weekend. In fact, they went the other way altogether.

Instead of doing more, as having Rodgers would have allowed, the Jets committed to doing less. The coaches found that through playing the hand they were dealt at quarterback, and the injuries they endured at offensive line, there wasn’t enough they’d found a way to get truly good at as the season wore on. So the idea was to find those things, do them more regularly and see where the chips might fall from there.

The success of that plan was modest. But, eventually, it did come. The Jets won three of their final five games. After failing to hit 100 yards rushing eight times in a nine-game stretch, they hit that mark in each of the last three weeks of the season—going for 164, 107 and 185 in their 15th, 16th, and 17th games, respectively.

Overall, they tried to find what would be the main thing—and keep it the main thing.

And while it wasn’t their intention back then, they laid the foundation for what was to come in the 2024 offseason and, if things work out as planned, beyond.

[Adoni Beast]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

An interesting thought is this: Saleh isn’t even a factor in how well the Jets do this season. He runs the defense, which Ulbrich can do just as well at this point. If Saleh quit in January and they elevated Ulbrich, are the Jets any worse off today? 

Come on this is an absurd take. Who is gonna lead the stair run challenges. Let’s focus on the big picture here and not lose our heads.

[dbatesman]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

An interesting thought is this: Saleh isn’t even a factor in how well the Jets do this season. He runs the defense, which Ulbrich can do just as well at this point. If Saleh quit in January and they elevated Ulbrich, are the Jets any worse off today? 

Just speaking for myself, if Saleh got fired tomorrow, it wouldn't...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

phase me

[TuscanyTile2]

13 minutes ago, rbstern said:

The gamble was the o-line.  That's the controllable part that blew up.  Z.Wilson probably could have gotten them to 9, maybe 10 wins with solid o-line play.  A better backup QB wouldn't have helped much with how the o-line panned out.  A healthy Aaron Rodgers, behind that o-line, wouldn't have lasted a meaningful portion of the season.

The moves this offseason are an acknowledgement of last year's o-line meltdown.

This!  ZW took the brunt of the blame but it was very obvious how awful the rest of the offense was by the moves JD made this offseason.  Though you're leaving out how awful the WRs were (and JD acquired Mike Williams and drafted Malachai Corley).

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

Just speaking for myself, if Saleh got fired tomorrow, it wouldn't...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

phase me

POTY!!!!

[TuscanyTile2]

18 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

An interesting thought is this: Saleh isn’t even a factor in how well the Jets do this season. He runs the defense, which Ulbrich can do just as well at this point. If Saleh quit in January and they elevated Ulbrich, are the Jets any worse off today? 

You seriously might not be wrong on this.  I think Ulbrich runs the defense anyway.  And AR8 runs the offense.

[Barry McCockinner]

25 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

An interesting thought is this: Saleh isn’t even a factor in how well the Jets do this season. He runs the defense, which Ulbrich can do just as well at this point. If Saleh quit in January and they elevated Ulbrich, are the Jets any worse off today? 

Saleh was a TE in college.

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, bicketybam said:

The Jets/Douglas took a massive gamble that Rodgers would stay healthy and Wilson would not have to start any meaningful games. 8 of Rodgers' previous 9 seasons he started every game. But as Jets luck would have it, he suffered a freak achilles tear 4 snaps into the season. Massive gamble lost. At that point I don't see who they could have signed that would have saved their season. If you want to make a case that they could have signed player X and made the playoffs, fine, but they weren't achieving their ultimate goal and their draft position would have been even worse. Maybe the mistake was not letting Wilson start every game? Or starting Boyle in week 2 and for the rest of the year. But that would be a hard sell to the other guys on the team, especially a guy like G. Wilson.

Good point but they also had siemien for five weeks before they finally put him in.  If he went in prior to Boyle maybe another one or two wins.  I don’t see how they can excuse their record in the second half.  Blame Zach?  Okay but he still managed six wins and had a good game against the Texans.  I don’t believe saleh was capable of pulling the team together.

[bicketybam]

6 minutes ago, rangerous said:

Good point but they also had siemien for five weeks before they finally put him in.  If he went in prior to Boyle maybe another one or two wins.  I don’t see how they can excuse their record in the second half.  Blame Zach?  Okay but he still managed six wins and had a good game against the Texans.  I don’t believe saleh was capable of pulling the team together.

They won 3 out of their last 5 with Wilson and Siemian at QB. 

Another win or two does nothing but lower their draft position. It wouldn't have been good enough to make the playoffs. Winning 7 games with the final roster Saleh had was miraculous in my book. The QB room had a 70.5 passer rating. That's abysmal!!!