One of the most overrated players in the league - NFL Personnel Evaluator

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, Asymmetrical said:

I  understand your position that he's good but doesn't turn the ball over enough. Don't think I agree with it making him not worth the eventual contract, but that's fine. 

Most corners are not there. Very few secondary players are guys who change games. Hamilton is the best secondary player in football. I wasn’t even a fan of his coming out, but that dude is an elite football player. Sauce is very good at coverage. Is that worth a max deal? Tough to say. Tua hasn’t had any issues passing against the Jets.

[Rich Thornburgh]

We didn’t break the bank for Revis and now we’re going to wreck our cap situation for years for Sauce.  Sounds reasonable 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Also, the pass defense got their doors blown off by the Browns, Cowboys, Commies second half with Brissett and Dolphins twice. We can temper how good everyone is a little bit.

What does this have to do with how good Sauce is?  The guy no who’s side of field one throws to is to blame for whatever point you’re trying to make.  

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Gardner could literally have a third arm made out of gold growing out of his anus that swatted away passes and the 3 jagaloons that bitch about him on this board would complain that he tweets about his golden anus arm too much. Good lord.

And he could go ten seasons covering slot WR’s with low targets and with only 4 INT’s total and the fawning fanboys here would be calling him the GOAT. Spare me. 🙄

He’s very good. He’s not perfect. No one is saying he sucks and no one is saying we should get rid of him. We’re all glad to have him, some of us just aren’t sucking his dick at every opportunity.

[Matt39]

36 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What does this have to do with how good Sauce is?  The guy no who’s side of field one throws to is to blame for whatever point you’re trying to make.  

I think it illustrates how valuable a corner who just covers really is. 

[slats]

7 hours ago, nycdan said:

If Rodgers plays well this year and looks like he's coming back again, I think it's highly likely we resign all three.

I agree that they can resign all three, I’m just not sure if it will make sense. But as far as this goes, all three are signed thru next year already. No need to extend them based on Rodgers. Those decisions will have more to do with what the team post-Rodgers is gonna look like. 

[RutgersJetFan]

59 minutes ago, Warfish said:

And he could go ten seasons covering slot WR’s with low targets and with only 4 INT’s total and the fawning fanboys here would be calling him the GOAT. Spare me. 🙄

He’s very good. He’s not perfect. No one is saying he sucks and no one is saying we should get rid of him. We’re all glad to have him, some of us just aren’t sucking his dick at every opportunity.

The only thing he's guilty of is that he's not Deion Sanders. I mean come on, 2 seasons and 2 All-Pros, tf do people even want anymore.

[Larz]

Trolling on sauce lol. 

[Warfish]

53 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

……tf do people even want anymore.

Interceptions.

Which I hope we’ll see more of this year.

Do you not want that?

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

I think it illustrates how valuable a corner who just covers really is. 

The defense giving up points on any given Sunday illustrates nothing about a corner.  It especially illustrates a thing about his blanketing WRs.  That’s his job.  That’s actually his main job.  He keeps WRs from being targeted.  He keeps WRs from catching balls.  He keeps WRs out of the EZ and from scoring points.

Now explain how these things illustrate anything about the story you’re pushing.  
The 3 or so complaining about his value to a defense really need to take a starters course on the game of football and how it’s played.  Making a goofy argument that keeping a WR from catching the ball, from scoring TDs somehow isn’t helpful and in fact a reason for a defense losing a game is a joke. 

[bicketybam]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

And he could go ten seasons covering slot WR’s with low targets and with only 4 INT’s total and the fawning fanboys here would be calling him the GOAT. Spare me. 🙄

He’s very good. He’s not perfect. No one is saying he sucks and no one is saying we should get rid of him. We’re all glad to have him, some of us just aren’t sucking his dick at every opportunity.

Who would you say at this point in their career is better at their respective positions: Sauce Gardner or Garrett Wilson? I know you will blame the QB room but I don't think anyone has Wilson listed as a Top 5 WR while Gardner is considered top 5 by almost everyone. Have you not bent over backwards to defend Wilson? Why is it any different when people defend Gardner? If you are going to suck a dick at least do it for a top 5 player 🤷

[Matt39]

28 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

The defense giving up points on any given Sunday illustrates nothing about a corner.  It especially illustrates a thing about his blanketing WRs.  That’s his job.  That’s actually his main job.  He keeps WRs from being targeted.  He keeps WRs from catching balls.  He keeps WRs out of the EZ and from scoring points.

Now explain how these things illustrate anything about the story you’re pushing.  
The 3 or so complaining about his value to a defense really need to take a starters course on the game of football and how it’s played.  Making a goofy argument that keeping a WR from catching the ball, from scoring TDs somehow isn’t helpful and in fact a reason for a defense losing a game is a joke. 

Because his job in the context of the overall effectiveness of the defense doesn’t carry a second contract which will be a max deal for a cornerback. 

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

We didn’t break the bank for Revis and now we’re going to wreck our cap situation for years for Sauce.  Sounds reasonable 

Revis’ 2nd Jets contract made him the highest paid CB in football.

What are you and Matt talking about?  

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Because his job in the context of the overall effectiveness of the defense doesn’t carry a second contract which will be a max deal for a cornerback. 

There is nothing nowhere that backs this ridiculous statement up.  The top corners in the league are near the top of the pay scale for all defensive players in this league.  You’re actually trying to make the case that in a league where success is dictated by a QB’s success.  In a game that’s made the RB insignificant while making the WR catching and running with the ball keys to a dangerous offense and you’re saying even a single shut down CB doesn’t help the effectiveness of a D shutting off 1/2 of the field?

LOL

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I get paid by the Jets to be here.

 

[AFJF]

3 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

We didn’t break the bank for Revis and now we’re going to wreck our cap situation for years for Sauce.  Sounds reasonable 

If Sauce was Revis he'd be on his third holdout by now.

[bicketybam]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

 

Changing what someone wrote to something completely different is really bush league.

[Matt39]

14 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Changing what someone wrote to something completely different is really bush league.

I’ve answered his question several times. Not everyone is a gold jacket player. 

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Interceptions.

Which I hope we’ll see more of this year.

Do you not want that?

Meh

[bicketybam]

17 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I’ve tried answering his question several times but I'm not very bright. Not everyone is intelligent.

Fair enough.

[Matt39]

13 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Fair enough.

Bush league 

[Fantasy Island]

On 7/18/2024 at 12:03 PM, Matt39 said:

Good player. Not dynamic. Would think long about giving him a max level CB contract. Defense would be good with or without him. 

He made QW relevant.  He is the best

[Matt39]

17 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

He made QW relevant.  He is the best

How? Williams is the best player on the Jets defense. 

[Fantasy Island]

25 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

How? Williams is the best player on the Jets defense. 

Because Sauce give QW time to rush the passer.

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Matt39 said:

 

poor Matt, can’t think of a think to back his pointless whine

[FootballLove]

Difference between Revis and Sauce:

Revis stayed close, then based on ques from the WR, he'd turn his head and attack the ball, knocking it away or intercepting it.

Sauce stays close, then based on ques from the WR, he attacks the receiver's hands/arms, preventing the catch. Sauce rarely turns his head to attack the ball, instead he tries to place his long arm/hand in between the receiver's hands, knocking the ball away and preventing the reception. I've even seen Sauce swat the ball away just as the WR had it in his hands.

Sauce is great at preventing the reception, but his technique does not lend itself to INTs.

If Sauce plays more zone, then he can come from behind the WR, eyes on the ball, and go for the INT. But in man coverage, that's not his game. He attacks the WR, not the ball.

[Matt39]

14 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

There is nothing nowhere that backs this ridiculous statement up.  The top corners in the league are near the top of the pay scale for all defensive players in this league.  You’re actually trying to make the case that in a league where success is dictated by a QB’s success.  In a game that’s made the RB insignificant while making the WR catching and running with the ball keys to a dangerous offense and you’re saying even a single shut down CB doesn’t help the effectiveness of a D shutting off 1/2 of the field?

LOL

Who are the top corners in football?  Ramsey on his third team. The Chiefs let Sneed walk. Surtain? Is he even a top 30 player in football? Corners aren’t at the top of the food chain in terms of value. Can you rush the quarterback or can you turn the ball over. Everything else is interchangeable. 

[T0mShane]

15 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Because his job in the context of the overall effectiveness of the defense doesn’t carry a second contract which will be a max deal for a cornerback. 

To further this point, the highest AAV for a CB right now is $21 mil, which is roughly elite guard money. Teams play cover-3 and quarters predominantly, and are employing mainly nickel personnel besides. It’s a luxury to have an elite man CB, but it’s hardly a necessity. Gardner and Surtain are the two best CBs in the sport and they add zero wins to their very bad teams.

[Rich Thornburgh]

15 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Revis’ 2nd Jets contract made him the highest paid CB in football.

What are you and Matt talking about?  

Are you talking about the one that was 3 years after we traded him for draft picks?

[The Crusher]

14 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

He made QW relevant.  He is the best

 

13 hours ago, Matt39 said:

How? Williams is the best player on the Jets defense. 

 

13 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Because Sauce give QW time to rush the passer.

Maybe the clearest answer ever given on JN!

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

To further this point, the highest AAV for a CB right now is $21 mil, which is roughly elite guard money. Teams play cover-3 and quarters predominantly, and are employing mainly nickel personnel besides. It’s a luxury to have an elite man CB, but it’s hardly a necessity. Gardner and Surtain are the two best CBs in the sport and they add zero wins to their very bad teams.

Thank you for this. Sauce is a good player. I don’t love taking CB’s this high for the reasons stated above. Kyle Hamilton and what he does is just a more valuable player. 

[Matt39]

Also of note from last year. Hill missed a game and Tua still was fine. Waddle did whatever he wanted. Cooper missed the Jets game. Nico Collins got hurt on the first drive.  Lamb embarrassed the Jets.  For such a lockdown presence the good receivers had their way with the Jets secondary. 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Who are the top corners in football?  Ramsey on his third team. The Chiefs let Sneed walk. Surtain? Is he even a top 30 player in football? Corners aren’t at the top of the food chain in terms of value. Can you rush the quarterback or can you turn the ball over. Everything else is interchangeable. 

Ramsey isn’t a top CB any more.  Also he’s on his 3rd team because the Rams offered a bunch of picks to try and win a championship, gave them up because they wanted a top CB.  
After using a pile of picks to add him to their D they went out and made him the highest paid defender in the NFL.  
Bad example.  Miami and the Rams wanted him.  LA, desperately while he was a problem at Jax, who needed the picks.  
Picking anyone other than Sauce at 4 would have been a mistake.  

 

[Green DNA]

On 7/18/2024 at 1:56 PM, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Merton Hanks! 

The guy with the longest neck in the league

[Matt39]

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Ramsey isn’t a top CB any more.  Also he’s on his 3rd team because the Rams offered a bunch of picks to try and win a championship, gave them up because they wanted a top CB.  
After using a pile of picks to add him to their D they went out and made him the highest paid defender in the NFL.  
Bad example. 

 

Would you have made Ramsey the top paid defensive player in football?