What signs do you see that Rodgers is slowing down?

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

A question for both his naysayers AND supporters.

Obviously we’ll find out soon enough but a good chance to get your thoughts in before the season.

My own views — as a starter, his 4 plays last year is too small a sample.  Who knows if he was trying for a HR right off the bat rather than taking what was open … 

I’ll concede injury risk has definitely gone up.  Even before the Achilles, he played with a broken thumb and hurt ribs his last season in GB.

There is also plenty of data that shows he is running less, which is probably a smart thing for an aging QB.  But in reality, that does make him less of a threat vs earlier in his career.

So injury risk and less mobility stand out to me.

Then there is his passing.  That’s the area I’m most curious about.

The end for Manning and Brees was a result of losing their arm strength.  I’ve read that Brees thought he could have played a few more seasons (into his mid 40s) if his arm cooperated.  

Adding in Brady, none seemed to decline as a result of processing speed.  Science will tell us that this declines as we hit 40 but these guys’ experience seemed to offset any natural decline in processing.  

It’s easy to point to Rodgers final season in GB as the evidence of a decline but it’s also a lazy conclusion.  He played hurt, lost Adams and played with a young group of inexperienced receivers led by our very own Allen Lazard.  The Packers averaged 27 points per game in the back half with a better blend of passing & running, and the maturity of some of the younger guys (Watson as a deep threat).

I’m of the opinion that Rodgers enters this season nearly as good a pocket passer as his last MVP season in GB — which featured a healthy dose of quick passing.  Throw out the last 2 seasons and keep the guy upright.  Blend in the running game and watch this guy orchestrate an offense that scores 25 plus points per game.  

You?  

[Arsis]

I hear he's lost a lot of stamina in the bedroom department.

 

 

He also couldn't last a full drive last year.

[Larz]

He used to hit his 4 iron 175. Down to 165 😬

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

5 minutes ago, Arsis said:

I hear he's lost a lot of stamina in the bedroom department.

 

 

He also couldn't last a full drive last year.

Yes, injury risk is higher but that was also a freak play.  There have been quite a few younger players who have suffered Achilles injuries the last few years.  It’s not like the risk of an Achilles goes up 10,000 percent when reaching 40.  I actually looked at this last year and found some data that suggested the risk was 2x higher at 40 compared to 30.

[Barry McCockinner]

Can we wait to see him play a few games before we answer or are we supposed to judge by practice reports?

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Can we wait to see him play a few games before we answer or are we supposed to judge by practice reports?

I’m curious what you think now ;).  How good of an evaluator are you Barry?  

[JiFtheOracle]

I would imagine you’re going to see a very similar player as you’ve always seen, maybe not as mobile but he looks plenty smooth and athletic still.  Not like Manning, Brady and Brees at 40, better arm too. 

[PS17]

I’m sure Rodgers still has plenty of zip and arm strength. We see that at practice. One possible problem is he’s always been pretty mobile in the pocket and able to lightly scramble to throw on the move. Hard to think that part of his game won’t be compromised given his age and injury. 

Also it remains to be seen how Rodgers deals with live action psychologically. Brady was very jumpy and nervous in 2009 coming off the ACL - clearly not himself that season. Admitted he was uncomfortable with bodies falling around his knees. 

[Bronx]

He is in optimal shape and maintains high nutritional standards.  We are able to rejuvenate our bodies through the pillars of holistic medicine.  

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

7 minutes ago, PS17 said:

I’m sure Rodgers still has plenty of zip and arm strength. We see that at practice. One possible problem is he’s always been pretty mobile in the pocket and able to lightly scramble to throw on the move. Hard to think that part of his game won’t be compromised given his age and injury. 

Also it remains to be seen how Rodgers deals with live action psychologically. Brady was very jumpy and nervous in 2009 coming off the ACL - clearly not himself that season. Admitted he was uncomfortable with bodies falling around his knees. 

2 very good points.

My question to you on the first is whether he used his legs much during his last 2 MVP seasons in 2020-2021?

I truly don’t know, maybe you dont but my impression was he kind of already reinvented himself.  

[Barry McCockinner]

14 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I’m curious what you think now ;).  How good of an evaluator are you Barry?  

I have no idea. He took zero preseason snaps and played 4 plays last year. The last season he actually played he had a broken thumb on his throwing hand and no #1 wr.

I suspect he won't be 2021 MVP level out of the gate at 40 after missing an entire year but still a top half of the league QB.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

26 minutes ago, Larz said:

He used to hit his 4 iron 175. Down to 165 😬

Those are his eight irons yardages.  He’s not in his 60’s. 

[Biggs]

The brain damage that convinced Green Bay to get rid of him.

[JiFtheOracle]

12 hours ago, PS17 said:

I’m sure Rodgers still has plenty of zip and arm strength. We see that at practice. One possible problem is he’s always been pretty mobile in the pocket and able to lightly scramble to throw on the move. Hard to think that part of his game won’t be compromised given his age and injury. 

Also it remains to be seen how Rodgers deals with live action psychologically. Brady was very jumpy and nervous in 2009 coming off the ACL - clearly not himself that season. Admitted he was uncomfortable with bodies falling around his knees. 

Obviously using very small sample sizes from camp clips but he seems to still move pretty damn well.  His pocket manipulation and ability to extend still seem to be there and that's all he really needs.  Just be able to do enough to make a few guys miss, extend plays and be his usual most talented QB we've seen in the league until Mahomes arrived.  Look at Flacco last year, the dude literally plays w/ his feet in concrete and he balled out for Cleveland and it's not like Brady, Manning or Brees were different.  Or look at Vinny T. after his Achilles injury, played for like 8 more years. They  were all statues who relied on their ability to preread, get the ball out fast and move around just enough to avoid the rush and played well into their 40's.  Aaron Rodgers takes care of the ball better than anyone in the history of the league, I dont think that aspect of his game has been compromised and we know he can still sling it.

 

[Raideraholic]

12 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

A question for both his naysayers AND supporters.

Obviously we’ll find out soon enough but a good chance to get your thoughts in before the season.

My own views — as a starter, his 4 plays last year is too small a sample.  Who knows if he was trying for a HR right off the bat rather than taking what was open … 

I’ll concede injury risk has definitely gone up.  Even before the Achilles, he played with a broken thumb and hurt ribs his last season in GB.

There is also plenty of data that shows he is running less, which is probably a smart thing for an aging QB.  But in reality, that does make him less of a threat vs earlier in his career.

So injury risk and less mobility stand out to me.

Then there is his passing.  That’s the area I’m most curious about.

The end for Manning and Brees was a result of losing their arm strength.  I’ve read that Brees thought he could have played a few more seasons (into his mid 40s) if his arm cooperated.  

Adding in Brady, none seemed to decline as a result of processing speed.  Science will tell us that this declines as we hit 40 but these guys’ experience seemed to offset any natural decline in processing.  

It’s easy to point to Rodgers final season in GB as the evidence of a decline but it’s also a lazy conclusion.  He played hurt, lost Adams and played with a young group of inexperienced receivers led by our very own Allen Lazard.  The Packers averaged 27 points per game in the back half with a better blend of passing & running, and the maturity of some of the younger guys (Watson as a deep threat).

I’m of the opinion that Rodgers enters this season nearly as good a pocket passer as his last MVP season in GB — which featured a healthy dose of quick passing.  Throw out the last 2 seasons and keep the guy upright.  Blend in the running game and watch this guy orchestrate an offense that scores 25 plus points per game.  

You?  

The good - there isn’t a defense he hasn’t seen.   2. He’s extremely accurate passer, 3. His process time much quicker than average Qb..  The bad - he once was able to create big plays down the field on broken plays by extending them. How much mobility he has left, and if he does - how long he’s going to last.      
I expect teams to send extra defender( blitzes ) a lot against him. You want to hit a 41 year old as much as possible. 
Yes there is a risk of giving up the big play but it better than letting him sit back there surgical picking apart your defense.    A great mind Al Davis  once said the Qb must go down , and hard.   More hits you get on 41 year old , the more it’s going to affect him  later on. 

[Claymation]

Aaron has garnered the respect of teammates by example and getting to know each and every one of them as individuals. He gives praise to veterans and rookies, to the known and the forgotten. He makes everyone feel included. He is the type of leader this franchise hasn’t seen since Joe Willie donned the uniform. He demands accountability, he teaches, instructs, and is the smartest player on the field. Players want to play with him, because no moment is too big. His experience is invaluable, and the perfect leader this team needed.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, Raideraholic said:

The good - there isn’t a defense he hasn’t seen.   2. He’s extremely accurate passer, 3. His process time much quicker than average Qb..  The bad - he once was able to create big plays down the field on broken plays by extending them. How much mobility he has left, and if he does - how long he’s going to last.      
I expect teams to send extra defender( blitzes ) a lot against him. You want to hit a 41 year old as much as possible. 
Yes there is a risk of giving up the big play but it better than letting him sit back there surgical picking apart your defense.    A great mind Al Davis  once said the Qb must go down , and hard.   More hits you get on 41 year old , the more it’s going to affect him  later on. 

Excellent post and correct. I’m impressed with the excellent Al Davis quote. 

[BreeceHallofFame]

I think he’s definitely lost speed running to the side line, but I don’t think it will matter. 

Remember in 2018 when he played the entire season with a bum knee? 4400 yards, 25 TDs, 2 INTs

In 2022 he played the year with an injured throwing thumb and had Lazard as his #1 option 

[Warfish]

14 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

A question for both his naysayers AND supporters.

Obviously we’ll find out soon enough but a good chance to get your thoughts in before the season.

I'll be honest, I have no idea, and I don't have any thoughts per se.

We've seen exactly four plays that count since we traded for him.

Practice means piss all.  I'm not judging a player based on media reports about his practice.

He didn't play in the preseason, little worth even that is these days, so no real judging that.

So frankly, there is no real way to say how much (or if) he's "slowed down" from what, 2022 him? 2021 him?, at this point.

Lets hope he lasts enough plays this time that we actually have something worth judging.

Monday Night Football can't come soon enough.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Some good thoughts.  We do have the 2022 season to evaluate and some real evidence thru this training camp that he still has arm talent and some mobility on the ‘heels’ of last year.

The cupboard for evaluation off his 2020-2021 MVP seasons is not as bare as some might suggest.

This year will most likely NOT be what we saw from Manning or Brees at the very end. 

Maybe Tom Brady is the better comparison.  A guy who can move within the pocket and execute a short passing game accurately & strategically, taking the top off the defense with the occasional deep shots.  Not too different from what Rodgers had mostly turned into during those recent MVP seasons.

Did Rodgers just fall off a cliff in 2022 or is it more likely his injuries and inexperienced supporting cast led to a down year?

Any insights on Brady’s last year in Tampa that was a cut below the 2 prior?

[Bobby816]

His arm talent is still elite. He can’t move like he used to to extend plays. But he also has one of the best OLines he’s ever played with. One of the best RBs he’s ever played with. And a great WR room. I’m not going to put GW in the Davante category yet. But he’s a top 10 guy for sure. But Williams, Lazard, Corley, Gipson is a deep Wr room for AR.

 

Biggest thing is he’s never really had an elite Defense opposite with him. He does now. We’ve all seen his winning numbers when his defense allows less than 20 points. Hes like 85-11 or something and 35-2 in recent years. And our defense averaged giving up 21 last year with a poor offense keeping them on the field a lot.

 

Meaning AR doesn’t have to be the mvp Rodgers from a a couple seasons ago. 

[Raideraholic]

1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Some good thoughts.  We do have the 2022 season to evaluate and some real evidence thru this training camp that he still has arm talent and some mobility on the ‘heels’ of last year.

The cupboard for evaluation off his 2020-2021 MVP seasons is not as bare as some might suggest.

This year will most likely NOT be what we saw from Manning or Brees at the very end. 

Maybe Tom Brady is the better comparison.  A guy who can move within the pocket and execute a short passing game accurately & strategically, taking the top off the defense with the occasional deep shots.  Not too different from what Rodgers had mostly turned into during those recent MVP seasons.

Did Rodgers just fall off a cliff in 2022 or is it more likely his injuries and inexperienced supporting cast led to a down year?

Any insights on Brady’s last year in Tampa that was a cut below the 2 prior?

Brady last year in Tampa bay his offense line was no where where it was when he first got there in Tampa bay. ( a lot of defections on that offense line) .   When you are a statue back there like Brady , it’s even more important the quality of the offense line in front of a Qb.   More mobile QBs can survive a lot better if there offense line more sub par that the traditional pocket  passer.

[Rhg1084]

I mean what are we basing this on? Training camp? Can we at least see him play a couple of series lol

[slimjasi]

None of us have seen him play and only a handful have seen him practice. 
 

from practice reports of him going up against our defense, it sounds like he’s still very good, but we’ve all been misled by practice reports before. 
 

my guess is he’s still somewhere between above average and very good, but no longer elite

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

None of us have seen him play and only a handful have seen him practice. 
 

from practice reports of him going up against our defense, it sounds like he’s still very good, but we’ve all been misled by practice reports before. 
 

my guess is he’s still somewhere between above average and very good, but no longer elite

There’s plenty of video of him practicing, playing in scrimmages etc to see his arm talent is still elite.  Don’t know how much mobility he’s lost or hasn’t lost because he wore a red shirt in camp

[Scott Dierking]

-Only one week in Egypt instead of two.

-Checking his IRA more often.

-Pausing for reflection. 

-Forgiving Brett Favre. 

-Spending more time thinking about dolphins sex, rather than sex for Aaron. 

-Less Dr Joe Rogan.

-Visits Jetnation only 4 times a day rather than previous average of 20.   

[Scott Dierking]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I'll be honest, I have no idea, and I don't have any thoughts per se.

We've seen exactly four plays that count since we traded for him.

Practice means piss all.  I'm not judging a player based on media reports about his practice.

He didn't play in the preseason, little worth even that is these days, so no real judging that.

So frankly, there is no real way to say how much (or if) he's "slowed down" from what, 2022 him? 2021 him?, at this point.

Lets hope he lasts enough plays this time that we actually have something worth judging.

Monday Night Football can't come soon enough.

So, you do have some thoughts. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

My only concern is what happens when Aaron gets hit.

I'm not worried about the achilles, the arm strength, or the "is his head in it this year?" questions. I believe those have been answered in training camp.

He hasn't been hit in a while. Let's see how that plays out.

[Jet_Engine1]

I knew he was getting old when he broke up with Olivia Munn. 

 

 

[Joe W. Namath]

Rodgers is on the Brady protocol.

- Testosterone for strength

- HGH for recovery

- EPO for stamina

- Adderral before the game for processing

Its not rocket science what these older players are doing.

Rodgers is on the protocol and will be just fine.

 

[slimjasi]

48 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

There’s plenty of video of him practicing, playing in scrimmages etc to see his arm talent is still elite.  Don’t know how much mobility he’s lost or hasn’t lost because he wore a red shirt in camp

Mobility and durability are the big question marks. 

I have no doubts about his arm or accuracy and I’d bet he’s still an elite processor

[JiFtheOracle]

5 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

The good - there isn’t a defense he hasn’t seen.   2. He’s extremely accurate passer, 3. His process time much quicker than average Qb..  The bad - he once was able to create big plays down the field on broken plays by extending them. How much mobility he has left, and if he does - how long he’s going to last.      
I expect teams to send extra defender( blitzes ) a lot against him. You want to hit a 41 year old as much as possible. 
Yes there is a risk of giving up the big play but it better than letting him sit back there surgical picking apart your defense.    A great mind Al Davis  once said the Qb must go down , and hard.   More hits you get on 41 year old , the more it’s going to affect him  later on. 

He's doesnt turn 41 till Dec, ok???!!!!!!! butt muncher

[thebuzzardman]

Only one Ayahuasca retreat this year instead of two or three

[32EBoozer]

17 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

How good of an evaluator are you Barry?  

Probably as good as his selecting profile names in a Turkish prison. 

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

There’s plenty of video of him practicing, playing in scrimmages etc to see his arm talent is still elite.  Don’t know how much mobility he’s lost or hasn’t lost because he wore a red shirt in camp

Yes… Garrett Wilson stating “ I was 30 years downfield before you threw the ball” pretty well explains away the arm talent questions. And Rodgers “I still got it” response also shows his confidence level heading into this season.