New York Jets, Haason Reddick Contract Saga No Longer About Fines. Game checks are now on the line, to the tune of $852,941 for each game missed.

[jgb]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Because unlike most employer/employee relationships there's a CBA in place, and since revenue collectively shared by all 32 teams' incomes from being in the league (TV deals, ticket sales, merchandise, etc.), and that this collective/shared revenue is what funds the salary cap-limited payments to players, and since the league can levy fines independent of the team (e.g. something as innocuous as taunting) in some sense is Reddick also an employee of the NFL and not merely the NYJ?

His contract is just with the Jets, but then again Jets don't operate as purely independent employer in many ways, and it's the league not the team that's mandating this fine. Seems more that the league/CBA is mandating that the Jets enforce this fine (and is permitting that the team enforce the non-mandated fines as well). 

Being a CBA situation may make that employer/employee relationship somewhat different than an independent random person (or company) hiring someone. I really know nothing about what's in the contract, though. Admittedly, it'd definitely be interesting if he could get out of it by getting paid only by another team rather than the Jets. I doubt that was the intent, but those cba bylaws (like any laws) may have enough wiggle room that they're subject to interpretation. 

Article 42 fines are for actions detrimental to a team — hold out, for example. Article 46 fines are for actions detrimental to the league/other teams — PEDs, illegal hits, etc. This is one way the NFL maintains that they are a true governing body, not just a conglomerate of 32 cooperating divisions.

[Sperm Edwards]

42 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yeah it’s ambiguous enough that I had to consider the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution to clarify — you can’t charge someone to work/refuse to work for you. The only way, IMHO, the NFL could take the position that future wages from another team can be taken to pay off Article 42 fines Reddick incurs on the Jets, would be to abandon the extraordinarily profitable legal fiction that the 32 NFL teams are bona fide competitors and admit they are all part of a larger organism/single employer. This would thus also waive its anti-trust exemption.
 

They’re not giving up the Golden Goose because of Hasaan Reddick, or for Woody’s bottom line, for that matter.

Yeah they're clearly a single employer in the sense that the revenue is shared among them, and that shared revenue is what - albeit indirectly - pays the players so much. The Jets don't have their own independent TV contract that generates the team's revenue, and they all share (non-luxury box) ticket sales, merchandising, and more.

Truth is they can get around admitting one thing or the other by having the Jets never trade or release him, so that theoretical/possible exception never sees the light of day. But no other owners would get together to communicate as much to Woody, who'd then communicate it down to Douglas. Never.  

BTW it wouldn't hurt Woody at all to have a trade eliminate the fines. Not only wouldn't this hurt the Jets, if it played out that way but it outright helps them. Reddick would be able to take home more from another team if traded, theoretically increasing his trade value: then the new team wouldn't have to pay Reddick an extra $5MM just to make him whole again before his actual base pay bump kicks in.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, jgb said:

Article 46 fines are for actions detrimental to a team — hold out, for example. Article 42 fines are for actions detrimental to the league/other teams — PEDs, illegal hits, etc. This is one way the NFL maintains that they are a true governing body, not just a conglomerate with 32 cooperating divisions.

wink-wink

[bicketybam]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

I didn’t but point me to it and I’ll take a look. 

It's the first appendix of the CBA. Page 351 if you are using a PDF reader. It's actually numbered page 334. The whole contract was an interesting read.

[Green Ghost]

8 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

At this point the fine money is really not that important. He will either pay it when he reports and plays the rest of the season for next to nothing, or he will forgo 14.5 million and still be contractually bound to the Jets. I'm not on some crusade to get Woody some money back (but the charitable part would be nice.) I just want to see this guy get hammered for his actions. Either of the two scenarios is enough hammering for me. He's ****ed himself pretty hard.

He’s already made over $50 million and at least publicly, doesn’t seem the least bit concerned. Probably because he knows he can make anther $50-75 mil playing ball in the future if that’s what he wants to do.

We should all be as “f**ked” as Hassan Reddick.

 

[bicketybam]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah they're clearly a single employer in the sense that the revenue is shared among them, and that shared revenue is what - albeit indirectly - pays the players so much. The Jets don't have their own independent TV contract that generates the team's revenue, and they all share (non-luxury box) ticket sales, merchandising, and more.

Truth is they can get around admitting one thing or the other by having the Jets never trade or release him, so that theoretical/possible exception never sees the light of day. But no other owners would get together to communicate as much to Woody, who'd then communicate it down to Douglas. Never.  

BTW it wouldn't hurt Woody at all to have a trade eliminate the fines. Not only wouldn't this hurt the Jets, if it played out that way but it outright helps them. Reddick would be able to take home more from another team if traded, theoretically increasing his trade value: then the new team wouldn't have to pay Reddick an extra $5MM just to make him whole again before his actual base pay bump kicks in.

That's a really good point.

If he ends up holding out the entire season, I would be very hesitant to trade for him and give him more than a one year deal. He's shown the entire league that he's more than capable of pulling out the ol' six shooter and blasting all his toes off. If he did it with the Jets, who's to say he wouldn't do it again if he puts up a good year and some other DE gets a better contract. He's kryptonite as far as I'm concerned.

[Trotter]

4 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

He’s already made over $50 million and at least publicly, doesn’t seem the least bit concerned. Probably because he knows he can make anther $50-75 mil playing ball in the future if that’s what he wants to do.

We should all be as “f**ked” as Hassan Reddick.

 

True - shame is if i had 50 mil i still would have put it on the bengals giving 7.5 to washington and lost it all.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

 

Its likely going to go down as the most ill-advised hold out in the history of the league.  When Leveon did this, he was only 26 whereas Reddick is already 30.  How you can possibly look at the landscape of the league and think that by sitting out DURING the season you will improve your situation enough to not only get another long term, high priced contract at 31 but ALSO make up the 8+ million you are giving up????  The math isnt math-ing here and its unfortunately hurting the Jets along with himself.

Bell was a free agent, not under contract with the Steelers when he held out in 2018, so he wouldn't/couldn't be subject to any fines. He was holding out from signing his franchise tag - i.e. holding out from signing a contract - not holding out of an existing contract that he signed. 

These huge + mandatory preseason fines are new to the 2020 CBA, but Bell would've been immune from them anyway. 

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah they're clearly a single employer in the sense that the revenue is shared among them, and that shared revenue is what - albeit indirectly - pays the players so much. The Jets don't have their own independent TV contract that generates the team's revenue, and they all share (non-luxury box) ticket sales, merchandising, and more.

Truth is they can get around admitting one thing or the other by having the Jets never trade or release him, so that theoretical/possible exception never sees the light of day. But no other owners would get together to communicate as much to Woody, who'd then communicate it down to Douglas. Never.  

BTW it wouldn't hurt Woody at all to have a trade eliminate the fines. Not only wouldn't this hurt the Jets, if it played out that way but it outright helps them. Reddick would be able to take home more from another team if traded, theoretically increasing his trade value: then the new team wouldn't have to pay Reddick an extra $5MM just to make him whole again before his actual base pay bump kicks in.

NFL is the ultimate Schrödinger's corporate structure. Whichever is most beneficial to the league at that moment is argued. And because it’s sports and not, say, an oil company, politicians don’t call out the inconsistency for fear of losing votes in the biggest 28 US cities.

[bicketybam]

5 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

He’s already made over $50 million and at least publicly, doesn’t seem the least bit concerned. Probably because he knows he can make anther $50-75 mil playing ball in the future if that’s what he wants to do.

We should all be as “f**ked” as Hassan Reddick.

 

If he sits out this season he will have forfeited roughly 28% of all the money he's made playing professional football. He sounds like a ******* idiot to me when all he had to do was hold in. If you think he doesn't care about money then why is he holding out and not retiring?

[Biggs]

6 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

That's a really good point.

If he ends up holding out the entire season, I would be very hesitant to trade for him and give him more than a one year deal. He's shown the entire league that he's more than capable of pulling out the ol' six shooter and blasting all his toes off. If he did it with the Jets, who's to say he wouldn't do it again if he puts up a good year and some other DE gets a better contract. He's kryptonite as far as I'm concerned.

It probably increases his value to certain owners who have to hate Woody almost as much as Jets fans hate him.   Imagine being an actually partner with Woody?  

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

It's the first appendix of the CBA. Page 351 if you are using a PDF reader. It's actually numbered page 334. The whole contract was an interesting read.

If you read the 500 page CBA today more power to you. I’ll try to take a look when the kids go to bed.

[bicketybam]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

If you read the 500 page CBA today more power to you. I’ll try to take a look when the kids go to bed.

Lol, hell no. I just went through the table of contents and saw that they provide the standardized wording for an NFL contract. I thought it was worth looking at.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

That's a really good point.

If he ends up holding out the entire season, I would be very hesitant to trade for him and give him more than a one year deal. He's shown the entire league that he's more than capable of pulling out the ol' six shooter and blasting all his toes off. If he did it with the Jets, who's to say he wouldn't do it again if he puts up a good year and some other DE gets a better contract. He's kryptonite as far as I'm concerned.

But IF jgb's theory is correct, and while it very well might be I'm not convinced it would play out that way in practice: in 2025 after holding out all year, if the Jets somehow offered him a redone contract with a bump up to $20MM, he'd only take home say $14MM of it after the fines get withheld. If they traded him to someone else who offered him the same $20MM contract, he'd keep all $20MM of it.

I don't think any new team would be concerned about him playing out two years at nearly the money he is seeking. It could go south, in theory, but you have to ask in practical terms - especially after losing out on $14MM in 2024 - would a 32 year-old Reddick seriously hold out of a guaranteed $20-25MM season in 2026?

The problem mostly stems from him signing what quickly became an under-market contract with the Eagles. If he could somehow get a $22-25MM per deal from a trade partner - and I've a lot of doubts he could - then he's not holding out of a season where he's not being paid an under-market rate. Never mind his leverage would be even less two years later than it has been this season.

Where he might have had more leverage is if the draft pick traded away to get him was much higher, but that didn't happen.

[bla bla bla]

15 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

Agreed. I would’ve gambled on it also, but who saw this playing out the way it has? If we lose a 3rd for nothing, it will be a shame.

I'm kinda hoping we get him for the final 6 games of the season so he avoids the tolled contract and helps us close out the year.

[Green Ghost]

27 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

If he sits out this season he will have forfeited roughly 28% of all the money he's made playing professional football. He sounds like a ******* idiot to me when all he had to do was hold in. If you think he doesn't care about money then why is he holding out and not retiring?

Does he really seem all that concerned to you? The man is out and about living his best life.

You and I were both able to retire in our 50’s which is a relatively young age. Have you ever once regretted or missed money you could’ve earned? I know I haven’t, and I didn’t make half the amount Reddick has in his career.

 

[jgb]

26 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

But IF jgb's theory is correct, and while it very well might be I'm not convinced it would play out that way in practice: in 2025 after holding out all year, if the Jets somehow offered him a redone contract with a bump up to $20MM, he'd only take home say $14MM of it after the fines get withheld. If they traded him to someone else who offered him the same $20MM contract, he'd keep all $20MM of it.

I don't think any new team would be concerned about him playing out two years at nearly the money he is seeking. It could go south, in theory, but you have to ask in practical terms - especially after losing out on $14MM in 2024 - would a 32 year-old Reddick seriously hold out of a guaranteed $20-25MM season in 2026?

The problem mostly stems from him signing what quickly became an under-market contract with the Eagles. If he could somehow get a $22-25MM per deal from a trade partner - and I've a lot of doubts he could - then he's not holding out of a season where he's not being paid an under-market rate. Never mind his leverage would be even less two years later than it has been this season.

Where he might have had more leverage is if the draft pick traded away to get him was much higher, but that didn't happen.

It’s not a theory, it is an interpretation based on an extremely targeted reading. But the CBA is 500 pages, so there absolutely could be other provisions that are not cross-referenced to the fines sections but are nonetheless relevant. Maybe we should ask Jason at OTC. Anyone still in touch with him?

[bicketybam]

3 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Does he really seem all that concerned to you? The man is out and about living his best life.

You and I were both able to retire in our 50’s which is a relatively young age. Have you ever once regretted or missed money you could’ve earned? I know I haven’t, and I didn’t make half the amount Reddick has in his career.

 

I'm not sure if trying to figure out if he cares about 14.5 million bucks is really worthwhile, but until he retires I going to go with "he does." 

[jgb]

29 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

I'm not sure if trying to figure out if he cares about 14.5 million bucks is really worthwhile, but until he retires I going to go with "he does." 

Part of me wonders if he is cooked and knows it and figures he has nothing to lose by holding out to try to sucker one last team to give him a multi year deal.

[bicketybam]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

Part of me wonders if he is cooked and knows it and figures he has nothing to lose by holding out to try to sucker one last team to give him a multi year deal.

That was my thought. He seems petrified to play out the last year of his deal and become a FA. He wants his last season of memory to be 2023 before he signs a multi year deal.

[bla bla bla]

12 minutes ago, jgb said:

Part of me wonders if he is cooked and knows it and figures he has nothing to lose by holding out to try to sucker one last team to give him a multi year deal.

This has absolutely crossed my mind

[Sperm Edwards]

33 minutes ago, jgb said:

It’s not a theory, it is an interpretation based on an extremely targeted reading. But the CBA is 500 pages, so there absolutely could be other provisions that are not cross-referenced to the fines sections but are nonetheless relevant. Maybe we should ask Jason at OTC. Anyone still in touch with him?

OK let's go with theory that this would be the outcome.  

He still has a user account here if you want to PM him - maybe a notification forwards to his email - but otherwise I guess drop him a PM/question on overthecap.

Or we can see if he responds to just getting tagged here, lol. @jason423

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Part of me wonders if he is cooked and knows it and figures he has nothing to lose by holding out to try to sucker one last team to give him a multi year deal.

I think he knows it's at least a possibility, and if he's healthy but doesn't exceed the 10 sacks Huff had last season, then how would he have justified being worth 50% more?

Also I get anyone - especially when it's got a good chance of being the last payday & there isn't as much time to get one's dollars back up - not wanting to risk it. He went too far, though, and it's not looking like there's any way to make up for the $ he's lost.

That is, unless:

• there is a loophole via trade and 
• someone else is willing to give him a big pay bump and 
• the thing that can't be answered, which is whether he'd have sustained a career-ending injury this summer/season if he showed up on ____ date.
  • While a lot less on a per-game basis, starting next year, even two more seasons guaranteed at a pay cut to $12MM would still be a good amount more than one final season would've been at $14MM (or if an injury was really bad - like an Achilles or Lisfranc - but not literally/immediately career-ending, and that injury happened late in the season, then he might be looking at just one year at $14MM and maybe just a few million thereafter before his career is Carl Lawson'd).
  • No it probably wouldn't have happened, but that probably applied to everyone who got such a bad injury, too.

[Fantasy Island]

1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

He’s already made over $50 million and at least publicly, doesn’t seem the least bit concerned. Probably because he knows he can make anther $50-75 mil playing ball in the future if that’s what he wants to do.

We should all be as “f**ked” as Hassan Reddick.

 

I’m just waiting on this lazy bum to show up and pull a hammy.

Every game that he misses makes him more toxic to any team that was interested in him.

[bicketybam]

9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

OK let's go with theory that this would be the outcome.  

He still has a user account here if you want to PM him - maybe a notification forwards to his email - but otherwise I guess drop him a PM/question on overthecap.

Or we can see if he responds to just getting tagged here, lol. @jason423

I think he knows it's at least a possibility, and if he's healthy but doesn't exceed the 10 sacks Huff had last season, then how would he have justified being worth 50% more?

Also I get anyone - especially when it's got a good chance of being the last payday & there isn't as much time to get one's dollars back up - not wanting to risk it. He went too far, though, and it's not looking like there's any way to make up for the $ he's lost.

That is, unless:

• there is a loophole via trade and 
• someone else is willing to give him a big pay bump and 
• the thing that can't be answered, which is whether he'd have sustained a career-ending injury this summer/season if he showed up on ____ date.
  • While a lot less on a per-game basis, starting next year, even two more seasons guaranteed at a pay cut to $12MM would still be a good amount more than one final season would've been at $14MM (or if an injury was really bad - like an Achilles or Lisfranc - but not literally/immediately career-ending, and that injury happened late in the season, then he might be looking at just one year at $14MM and maybe just a few million thereafter before his career is Carl Lawson'd).
  • No it probably wouldn't have happened, but that probably applied to everyone who got such a bad injury, too.

I bet JD has trade offers stacked eye high!