New York Jets, Haason Reddick Contract Saga No Longer About Fines. Game checks are now on the line, to the tune of $852,941 for each game missed.

[bicketybam]

10 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Exactly. You’ve explained that very clearly this morning.

I was going to mention that to him, but then I thought better of it, because… bickety.

"Unexcused late reporting for or absence from preseason training camp by a player under contract except those signed as (1) an Unrestricted Free Agent pursuant to article 9; or (2) a Drafted Rookie pursuant to article 7 - mandatory fine of $50,000 per day. For the avoidance of doubt, any such fines shall be mandatory, and shall not be reduced in amount or waived by the Club, in whole or in part, but must be paid by the player or deducted by the club as provided in sections 5 (b) of this Article."

Must be paid by the player OR deducted by the club. Follow? Must be paid by the player. It doesn't say the only means was deduction from compensation earned by the club.

 

 

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Alka said:

Okay, Let's do the math together, shall we?

He was scheduled to make $14.5 Mill for this season.  If he doesn't show up, he is out $14.5M

On top of that, he has accumulated $6 Million in fines, which he MUST pay.

If we add his lost wages together with the fines that he MUST pay, we arrive at $20.5 Million dollars.

He also had a workout bonus of $250,000.00 that he gave up as well.  And $101,716.00 for showing up to minicamp.

He is very close to the $21M that I talked about, and not the $14M that you mistakenly are referring to.

If he doesn’t show up and Jets trade him next off season it would be unconstitutional to send him a bill for $6m.

[Green Ghost]

2 minutes ago, Alka said:

Okay, Let's do the math together, shall we?

He was scheduled to make $14.5 Mill for this season.  If he doesn't show up, he is out $14.5M

On top of that, he has accumulated $6 Million in fines, which he MUST pay.

If we add his lost wages together with the fines that he MUST pay, we arrive at $20.5 Million dollars.

He also had a workout bonus of $250,000.00 that he gave up as well.  And $101,716.00 for showing up to minicamp.

He is very close to the $21M that I talked about, and not the $14M that you mistakenly are referring to.

The 14 mil I was talking about was what his 2024 salary would have been if he reported week one.

If you live in a world where you think a player (or any other employee) can be fined over 50% more than the amount of a proposed salary for not reporting/ working for said team or company?
I can’t reason with you.

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

"Unexcused late reporting for or absence from preseason training camp by a player under contract except those signed as (1) an Unrestricted Free Agent pursuant to article 9; or (2) a Drafted Rookie pursuant to article 7 - mandatory fine of $50,000 per day. For the avoidance of doubt, any such fines shall be mandatory, and shall not be reduced in amount or waived by the Club, in whole or in part, but must be paid by the player or deducted by the club as provided in sections 5 (b) of this Article."

Must be paid by the player OR deducted by the club. Follow? Must be paid by the player. It doesn't say the only means was deduction from compensation earned by the club.

 

 

If he refuses to pay and there is never any Jets pay to deduct from, the Constitution prevents the Jets from collecting that $6m.

The Constitution (and all applicable state and federal laws) are always deemed terms of any contract in the US.

Notice that the CBA doesn’t explicitly say that NFL Teams can’t kidnap holdout players’ children to hold as hostages. 

[Green Ghost]

10 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

"Unexcused late reporting for or absence from preseason training camp by a player under contract except those signed as (1) an Unrestricted Free Agent pursuant to article 9; or (2) a Drafted Rookie pursuant to article 7 - mandatory fine of $50,000 per day. For the avoidance of doubt, any such fines shall be mandatory, and shall not be reduced in amount or waived by the Club, in whole or in part, but must be paid by the player or deducted by the club as provided in sections 5 (b) of this Article."

Must be paid by the player OR deducted by the club. Follow? Must be paid by the player. It doesn't say the only means was deduction from compensation earned by the club.

 

 

Again, you’re missing the point.
We all “think” we know the fine structure if a player holds out, then reports some point in the season.

What if said player sits out the entire season, though? How can you fine someone who was never in your employ?

[slats]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

The fines collected by the league are in Article 46 (“Commissioner Discipline”) which deals with stuff like on-field illegal hits and the like. Article 42 (“Club Discipline”) deals with stuff like hold-outs and not reporting. Clubs donate half that money and the rest is theirs under Section 5(c) of that Article.

Here’s the thing, though: if he sits out all year, he’ll be the under contract to the Jets in 2025. If he still wants to play, the Jets will once again have all the leverage to collect those fines before expressing a willingness to accommodate his trade requests. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

This is what I was referring to last night. How can a team fine a player with a non guaranteed contract who never reported to them?

Now I’m starting to wonder if those “mandatory” fines for not attending TC are going to be enforceable also if he sits out the entire season.

What the **** does the guarantee have to do with it?  His end of the contract is guaranteed.  Not the team's.  He HAS to play for the Jets pursuant to the terms of his contract.  The fact that it is not guaranteed just means the Jets didn't have to pay him if they cut him.  They didn't.  I guess if they cut him they couldn't fine him, but that is also irrelevant here.

[Alka]

4 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

The 14 mil I was talking about was what his 2024 salary would have been if he reported week one.

If you live in a world where you think a player (or any other employee) can be fined over 50% more than the amount of a proposed salary for not reporting/ working for said team or company?
I can’t reason with you.

HUH????  I'm not sure you and I speak the same language.  He lost $21M dollars.  However you do the math, that is the bottom line.

And I am all about the bottom line.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Here’s the thing, though: if he sits out all year, he’ll be the under contract to the Jets in 2025. If he still wants to play, the Jets will once again have all the leverage to collect those fines before expressing a willingness to accommodate his trade requests. 

Correct 100%. He’s boning himself pretty hard. He is basically forced to report in time to accrue the year at which point the Jets will start collecting the fines.

[Alka]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

unconstitutional

You mean unconscionable, I presume.  I would agree that it would be unconscionable to fine him $6M and trade him to another team.

[bicketybam]

16 minutes ago, jgb said:

Thanks! Now I see it. Yeah sure he can always agree to pay. But the question remains what if he is on a new team, is never paid a cent by the Jets, and refuses to pay? I don’t see an automatic mechanism for the NFL to garnish wages from his new team. It could be in there somewhere (the thing is nearly 500 pages) but it seems the Jets would need to get a wage garnishment order from either a court or, if allowed under the CBA which I don’t know, via the non-binding arbitration process established by the league.

But the fact is an employer cannot get from a employee more than it pays him (except for criminal acts like theft). It’s unconstitutional. 

So we have in Article 42, Section 1 (a) (vi) that the fines must be paid by the player or deducted by the club as provided in Sections 5(b)

Ssection 5(b) states that the assignment (trade) and/or termination of a player's contract after events triggering a fine shall not result in any waiver of the assigning or terminating clubs right to seek and recover the full amount of the fines.

It's pretty clear if you ask me. Now what the Jets would have to do in order to collect the money is really not the issue. The issue is that under this CBA he is responsible for the fines whether the contract is eventually terminated or assigned. I don't want to get into how the player could sue, etc. I'm just stating what is laid out in the CBA.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, Alka said:

HUH????  I'm not sure you and I speak the same language.  He lost $21M dollars.  However you do the math, that is the bottom line.

And I am all about the bottom line.

His loss is capped at $14m if he takes this all the way and isn’t a Jet next season.  
 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Alka said:

You mean unconscionable, I presume.  I would agree that it would be unconscionable to fine him $6M and trade him to another team.

Both.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, bicketybam said:

So we have in Article 42, Section 1 (a) (vi) that the fines must be paid by the player or deducted by the club as provided in Sections 5(b)

Ssection 5(b) states that the assignment (trade) and/or termination of a player's contract after events triggering a fine shall not result in any waiver of the assigning or terminating clubs right to seek and recover the full amount of the fines.

It's pretty clear if you ask me. Now what the Jets would have to do in order to collect the money is really not the issue. The issue is that under this CBA he is responsible for the fines whether the contract is eventually terminated or assigned. I don't want to get into how the player could sue, etc. I'm just stating what is laid out in the CBA.

Yeah Jets will still hold the right to collect but the question is “what is the mechanism to do so?” You can’t fine an employee more than you pay him. Again, the US Constituion.

[Green Ghost]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Correct 100%. He’s boning himself pretty hard. He is basically forced to report in time to accrue the year at which point the Jets will start collecting the fines.

I don’t think he’s going to report this season without a new deal, and I also don’t believe the Jets want to dance this dance again next year, but that’s just my opinion.

It’s going to be interesting to see how this actually does play out.

[Alka]

1 minute ago, Green Ghost said:

I don’t think he’s going to report this season without a new deal, and I also don’t believe the Jets want to dance this dance again next year, but that’s just my opinion.

It’s going to be interesting to see how this actually does play out.

Congratulations!!  You found something that we both can agree on!!

[Beerfish]

Other gms loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Joe Douglas, he keeps taking their problems over for them and paying them draft picks and resources to do so.

Go Joe Go!

Tally ho!

[bicketybam]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Correct 100%. He’s boning himself pretty hard. He is basically forced to report in time to accrue the year at which point the Jets will start collecting the fines.

And with the amount of games he would have to play to accrue a season, his compensation would just about just cover the fines. He's going to end up playing 6 games for peanuts.

If he decides to sit out the year, I was told his salary cap allocation from this year would roll over to next year. So if I am understanding this correctly, the Jets would not have to set aside part of the basic cap for his holdout if he holds out again. It would be covered by the roll over from this year. I would just keep the guy under contract until he reports whether that's this year or next year. No way would I trade him for anything less than what we paid.

 

[bicketybam]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

His loss is capped at $14m if he takes this all the way and isn’t a Jet next season.  
 

I don't believe that to be true as per what I outlined in a previous post.

[jgb]

Just now, bicketybam said:

And with the amount of games he would have to play to accrue a season, his compensation would just about just cover the fines. He's going to end up playing 6 games for peanuts.

Correct.

Just now, bicketybam said:

If he decides to sit out the year, I was told his salary cap allocation from this year would roll over to next year. So if I am understanding this correctly, the Jets would not have to set aside part of the basic cap for his holdout if he holds out again. It would be covered by the roll over from this year. I would just keep the guy under contract until he reports whether that's this year or next year. No way would I trade him for anything less than what we paid.

 

That’s certainly a way to play it. Jets definitely need to hold strong on that because around week 9 or whatever he will hit the point of playing out the string for free, at which point holding his rights is the only leverage you’ve got.

[Matt39]

29 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

This is what I was referring to last night. How can a team fine a player with a non guaranteed contract who never reported to them?

Now I’m starting to wonder if those “mandatory” fines for not attending TC are going to be enforceable also if he sits out the entire season.

I’m sure there’s a way but sometimes you wonder if all of this stuff is window dressing. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, bicketybam said:

I don't believe that to be true as per what I outlined in a previous post.

I’ve responded to it now twice. The US Constitution is automatically incorporated into every American contract.   

[bicketybam]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yeah Jets will still hold the right to collect but the question is “what is the mechanism to do so?” You can’t fine an employee more than you pay him. Again, the US Constituion.

You keep saying that. I don't care what the mechanism is for collecting it. If it's unconstitutional, he should sue. But the fact remains is that he owes the fines and they don't go away if he is cut or traded.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yeah Jets will still hold the right to collect but the question is “what is the mechanism to do so?” You can’t fine an employee more than you pay him. Again, the US Constituion.

I doubt he's cutting checks every week to Woody Johnson to give back prorated signing bonus money, even if legally obligated to do so.

My guess is the Jets would have to take him to court, and at that point things get really ugly.

If the Jets are still entertaining hopes that he'll show and produce something for them, they're not gonna go down that road.

[bicketybam]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Correct.

That’s certainly a way to play it. Jets definitely need to hold strong on that because around week 9 or whatever he will hit the point of playing out the string for free, at which point holding his rights is the only leverage you’ve got.

That's pretty strong leverage, don't you think? The Jets could take the stance that he plays enough games to accrue a season or he will be perpetually bound to them. And if it is no longer penalizing the cap, what would be the harm of doing just that?

[jgb]

Just now, bicketybam said:

That's pretty strong leverage, don't you think? The Jets could take the stance that he plays enough games to accrue a season or he will be perpetually bound to them. And if it is no longer penalizing the cap, what would be the harm of doing just that?

It absolutely is strong leverage. 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

You keep saying that. I don't care what the mechanism is for collecting it. If it's unconstitutional, he should sue. But the fact remains is that he owes the fines and they don't go away if he is cut or traded.

Yes, they do. Unless the Jets general counsel is a mook and wants to expose the team to a slam dunk Section 1985 lawsuit.

[Mr. Rogers]

I assume you guys have seen the "reports" - supposedly, Reddick wouldn't mind being traded back to the eagles.

Seemingly, that implies that RedDick is willing to play on his current contract after all (since obviously the eagles didn't want to extend him), but is, for whatever reason, too bitter with the Jets to play on it for us. This would either lead me to assume that the Jets did promise an extension and didn't deliver, or that Reddick's CTE induced petty bullsh*t is growing by the day.

Of course, it feels more likely that this is sheer speculation or click bait. But would, and should, the jets take back their 2026 3rd to offload Reddick if the eagles offered?

I think I'd say yes. Maybe the Jets could utilize the cap space to find another edge defender later in the season. Surely some team will fall out of contention and be willing to offload a guy on an expiring contract. They might not be Reddick's level, but if the report is true then they'll have to consider that Reddick may refuse to EVER play here.

[Green Ghost]

One other thing about this discussion I don’t understand is why so many here continue to say Reddick is being “fined” over $800 grand every week?
He’s not being fined that amount, he’s simply not getting paid the weekly salary he would’ve been entitled to had he reported and agreed to work/play for the Jets.

Why would he be liable to pay back weekly paychecks to a company he never worked for?

 

[Dunnie]

That's pretty strong leverage, don't you think? The Jets could take the stance that he plays enough games to accrue a season or he will be perpetually bound to them. And if it is no longer penalizing the cap, what would be the harm of doing just that?

In fairy tale land he doesn't play, the Jets retain his rights and then franchise tag him. Can you imagine his face.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[slats]

16 minutes ago, jgb said:

Correct 100%. He’s boning himself pretty hard. He is basically forced to report in time to accrue the year at which point the Jets will start collecting the fines.

Once his holdout made it to the regular season, this has been my expectation. Still is. 

[Trotter]

Should have kept and tagged Huff.

Actually I really do not feel that way but figured lets get another 5 pages.

[Dunnie]

One other thing about this discussion I don’t understand is why so many here continue to say Reddick is being “fined” over $800 grand every week? He’s not being fined that amount, he’s simply not getting paid the weekly salary he would’ve been entitled to had he reported and agreed to work/play for the Jets.
Why would he be liable to pay back weekly paychecks to a company he never worked for?
 

He is under contract. He wouldn't have to pay anything back ... But he is also losing that cashola every week and not accruing playing time.

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[jgb]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

Once his holdout made it to the regular season, this has been my expectation. Still is. 

Instead of playing 17 games for 14M, he will be playing 6 for free. Saleh should put him in as gunner on punts.

[slats]

13 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

I don’t think he’s going to report this season without a new deal, and I also don’t believe the Jets want to dance this dance again next year, but that’s just my opinion.

It’s going to be interesting to see how this actually does play out.

Jets aren’t releasing him. If he really opts not to report for the entire season, they’ll suck whatever value they can out of him. This is the same GM that, rather than release Zach Wilson, he held out until someone was willing to pay half of his remaining $5M salary. This is not a guy who just gives assets away.