Jets Backups Pass First Major Test as Sherwood, Echols Shine

[JetNation]

Having made  it through the preseason relatively unscathed in terms of serious injuries, it took just a couple of weeks for Robert Saleh to have to rely heavily on the Jets backups.

The day started with Gang Green ruling out cornerback DJ Reed who had been battling a knee injury all week.  After heading out to the field to go through some drills, it was decided that Reed wouldn’t suit up.

Things didn’t get any better once the game kicked off.  The Jets would lose CJ Mosley for most of the day with a toe injury, have to shuttle nickel cornerback Michael Carter in and out due to a high ankle sprain, and then the worst was saved for last.

Defensive end Jermaine Johnson suffered what is believed to be a torn achilles which will mean the end of his season.

This meant a true test for the Jets depth and they passed with flying colors.

Filling in for Reed, cornerback Brandin Echols played every defensive snap and came away with the team’s only interception while allowing just 1 catch on the day.  A sixth-round pick in the 2021 draft, Echols has become a key role player as a backup at both nickel and boundary corner.

Once Mosley left, it’s fair to say the Jets defense played better as a unit when Sherwood took over.  Jets coaches used Sherwood and Quincy Williams both inside and outside with Sherwood finishing the game as the team’s top tackler (12 total, 8 solo, 1 for loss) and offering a significant upgrade in coverage.  Mosley is the brains and captain of the defense, but it’s clear Sherwood, a former day 3 pick himself, is ready to start somewhere.

Without Echols to plug in at nickel as he was playing outside while veteran Isaiah Oliver stepped in and was solid yet unspectacular.

All in all, the Jets backups were badly needed and by and exceeded the expectations of many.

 

The post Jets Backups Pass First Major Test as Sherwood, Echols Shine appeared first on JetNation.com - New York Jets Blog & Forum.

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[varjet]

Echols and Sherwood are gone after this season.  

[JKlecko]

6 minutes ago, varjet said:

Echols and Sherwood are gone after this season.  

Sadly, I agree with you.  Both know that they can start in this league, and will undoubtedly get starting gigs and nice contracts with other teams.

[Ecuadorian Jet]

If Reed leaves, does that give the opportunity for an Echols contract?

[doitny]

i dont know if JD haters can handle this. these 2 guys are making that 2021 draft look a lot better.

[Plen T]

Mosley is slow and terrible so Sherwood makes a ton of sense

can CJ be cut this offseason?

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

i dont know if JD haters can handle this. these 2 guys are making that 2021 draft look a lot better.

It's almost as if we have a pretty good GM.  But you know....Saleh's victory speech is a sure sign that JD sucks and should be gone.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, Plen T said:

Mosley is slow and terrible so Sherwood makes a ton of sense

can CJ be cut this offseason?

Mosley can be cut next June 1 with $8M in dead cap and $4M in cap savings.  If he is traded, those numbers basically flip.  So short answer, yes, it's manageable.

[Mr. Rogers]

3 hours ago, varjet said:

Echols and Sherwood are gone after this season.  

Echols probably, especially with MCII extension.

Sherwood, maybe not? If another team offers top money I agree. But with Mosley's age, if he gets injured more (or just if we can retain Sherwood for medium salary) we might luck out.

[AFJF]

7 hours ago, varjet said:

Echols and Sherwood are gone after this season.  

Why wouldn't they extend Sherwood and have him take over for Mosely?

[Falco21]

7 hours ago, varjet said:

Echols and Sherwood are gone after this season.  

No they're not. Echols and Sherwood both will likely have an elevated role with Reed and Mosley headed out. 

[mrcoops]

I'd hope the Jets will find a way to keep both guys.

Sherwood needs to slide in next to Williams once CJ goes - and that might be after this season.

Echols is a starting quality CB, and could be a lower-priced replacement for Reed next year.

[Bobby816]

Sherwood we need to keep. Echols I'd be ok with losing if he wants to get paid. I like what I saw in Stiggers and JBC, to where I'm ok letting him (and even Reed) walk. Keeping our more key players is bigger IMO. I'm not overpaying Echols to where we don't have money to pay others.

[bonkertons]

12 hours ago, JKlecko said:

Sadly, I agree with you.  Both know that they can start in this league, and will undoubtedly get starting gigs and nice contracts with other teams.

Echols is a near lock to walk.  Sherwood though could go either way.  Mosley has been trending downward for a bit now.  If this year proves Sherwood can play and be that guy, I don't see them letting him walk in favor of one more year of a washed/near washed CJ...just so we can then try to replace him a year later.  Drafting a project in Sherwood and then letting him walk right after he actually becomes the guy you hoped he would be seems like the opposite of how you should be drafting/building your roster.

Quincy got $6M per year after his breakout season.  I'd imagine Sherwood would be looking at something similar. 

[bonkertons]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Sherwood we need to keep. Echols I'd be ok with losing if he wants to get paid. I like what I saw in Stiggers and JBC, to where I'm ok letting him (and even Reed) walk. Keeping our more key players is bigger IMO. I'm not overpaying Echols to where we don't have money to pay others.

Yup.  I think Stiggers will fill that role of CB4 pretty nicely.  From there you could either look for a cheap UFA pickup or, more likely, invest a top pick into CB2.  A 1st or 2nd rounder.  I'd be completely fine if WR and CB were the targets for the first two rounds of 2025.  

[JKlecko]

3 hours ago, bonkertons said:

Echols is a near lock to walk.  Sherwood though could go either way.  Mosley has been trending downward for a bit now.  If this year proves Sherwood can play and be that guy, I don't see them letting him walk in favor of one more year of a washed/near washed CJ...just so we can then try to replace him a year later.  Drafting a project in Sherwood and then letting him walk right after he actually becomes the guy you hoped he would be seems like the opposite of how you should be drafting/building your roster.

Quincy got $6M per year after his breakout season.  I'd imagine Sherwood would be looking at something similar. 

I agree, and hope that Sherwood stays.  Would Saleh bench Mosely?  That I'm not sure of, and I don't think the Jets would pay Sherwood $6 million to sit on the bench.  Hopefully, Mosely either gracefully accepts moving to backup or to save face he retires.  I think if he retires it would clear the cap completely of the $12+ million contract for next year which would help immensely in extending Wilson, JJ, Breece, AVT and Sauce.

I agree that Echols is probably a near lock to walk, but it's not every day that a team that has a CB who can play both inside and outside at a pretty high level.  He's no MC II in the slot, but probably better than any other slot CB the Jets have had in a while.

[bonkertons]

On 9/17/2024 at 1:44 PM, JKlecko said:

I agree, and hope that Sherwood stays.  Would Saleh bench Mosely?  That I'm not sure of, and I don't think the Jets would pay Sherwood $6 million to sit on the bench.  Hopefully, Mosely either gracefully accepts moving to backup or to save face he retires.  I think if he retires it would clear the cap completely of the $12+ million contract for next year which would help immensely in extending Wilson, JJ, Breece, AVT and Sauce.

I agree that Echols is probably a near lock to walk, but it's not every day that a team that has a CB who can play both inside and outside at a pretty high level.  He's no MC II in the slot, but probably better than any other slot CB the Jets have had in a while.

I was on the "cut Mosley" train this offseason but I understood that was a risk and a lot of people weren't on board in a win-now year.  Knowing what Sherwood is(or at least what he looks to be at the moment) would have made that the right move, but it's whatever now.  I think you can cut him post-June and save about $4M, which should cover most of Sherwood's raise I'd think.  Hopefully though you're right - if health is a major problem for Mosley this year, maybe he'll just call it quits.

Agreed on Echols as well, and I'd obviously love to keep him, but we're going to start having some real tough decisions with some really good players.  Especially if we decide to pay Breece instead of going with the rotating door of mid-round draft pick RBs.  I think there's a way to make it work and keep the core in place, but it probably requires moving on from Rodgers after the 2025 season and replacing him with a kid on an ELC(whether that's Travis, a 2025 draft pick, or a 2026 draft pick).  Even then, we'll be pretty close to tapped out.  We're going to have to draft EXTREMELY well these next two years while hoping we made the right picks this year.  We're going to need quality play from guys on cheap deals if we want to keep this core intact.

[BreeceHallofFame]

Sherwood is Mosley long term replacement he ain’t going anywhere 

[JKlecko]

2 hours ago, bonkertons said:

I was on the "cut Mosley" train this offseason but I understood that was a risk and a lot of people weren't on board in a win-now year.  Knowing what Sherwood is(or at least what he looks to be at the moment) would have made that the right move, but it's whatever now.  I think you can cut him post-June and save about $4M, which should cover most of Sherwood's raise I'd think.  Hopefully though you're right - if health is a major problem for Mosley this year, maybe he'll just call it quits.

Agreed on Echols as well, and I'd obviously love to keep him, but we're going to start having some real tough decisions with some really good players.  Especially if we decide to pay Breece instead of going with the rotating door of mid-round draft pick RBs.  I think there's a way to make it work and keep the core in place, but it probably requires moving on from Rodgers after the 2025 season and replacing him with a kid on an ELC(whether that's Travis, a 2025 draft pick, or a 2026 draft pick).  Even then, we'll be pretty close to tapped out.  We're going to have to draft EXTREMELY well these next two years while hoping we made the right picks this year.  We're going to need quality play from guys on cheap deals if we want to keep this core intact.

I agree, but with one exception.  Unless there are major changes to the Jets' offensive CS, I don't think that they should draft another young QB and start him day one in 2026. When Rodgers rides off into the sunset, I think the Jets need to sign or trade for a veteran QB like Minshew or Brissett to start for a year or two and let the young QB sit and learn unless they're lucky enough to draft a rare QB like Stroud or Burrows who can play great as a rookie.

[bonkertons]

4 hours ago, JKlecko said:

I agree, but with one exception.  Unless there are major changes to the Jets' offensive CS, I don't think that they should draft another young QB and start him day one in 2026. When Rodgers rides off into the sunset, I think the Jets need to sign or trade for a veteran QB like Minshew or Brissett to start for a year or two and let the young QB sit and learn unless they're lucky enough to draft a rare QB like Stroud or Burrows who can play great as a rookie.

I dunno.  In theory it's probably the right move assuming we draft a kid in 2026, but the idea of starting Minshew or Brissett just seems like throwing away a year to me.  Best for the QB we draft, not great for us or the team.  If we did do this, I'd be pretty quick to pull the trigger on benching whoever the placeholder is - assuming the rookie has actually looked competent to that point in practice/preseason/etc.

Ideally though, Travis becomes the guy or we take a kid in 2025 and give him a year to learn under Rodgers.

[JKlecko]

2 hours ago, bonkertons said:

I dunno.  In theory it's probably the right move assuming we draft a kid in 2026, but the idea of starting Minshew or Brissett just seems like throwing away a year to me.  Best for the QB we draft, not great for us or the team.  If we did do this, I'd be pretty quick to pull the trigger on benching whoever the placeholder is - assuming the rookie has actually looked competent to that point in practice/preseason/etc.

Ideally though, Travis becomes the guy or we take a kid in 2025 and give him a year to learn under Rodgers.

We totally disagree on this.  The fact is that few drafted QBs wind up being Strouds or Burrows.  Most bust, or become career JAGS and backups. 30-40 years ago, rookie QBs never started their rookie season.  They sat and learned  and they had fewer busts. 

How is it best for the team to waste a high draft pick (because that's what you're doing if you don't put that rookie QB in a position to succeed)?  The answer is that it isn't what's best for the team in either the short term or long term.  If you invest a high 1st round draft pick on a QB, you'd better do every thing you can to ensure that he has the best chances to develop, and that doesn't include just throwing him to the wolves if he isn't ready to play.  If that QB doesn't develop, it hurts the team for 3-5 years or longer.  Not on then do they not have a QB of the future, but they missed on a topflight prospect at another position.  Throwing a rookie QB to the wolves when he isn't ready to play in the NFL is just flat out nuts imo.  The team isn't going to win, and it's just going to screw up the QB.  It's not the way you develop anyone, much less the most important position on the team.  Rookie QBs need time to learn the offense, particularly a complex offense like the WCO, to adapt to the speed of the NFL, to learn to read the complex Ds in the NFL, and to work on their fundamentals.   Minshew or Brissett are going to win more games than a rookie QB.

Maybe just maybe, if the Jets had had a quality OC and QB Coach, had a decent veteran who could start for a year or two and they had let Sam, Geno, Sanchez, and Zach sit for a year or two before they saw the field, at least one or two of those would have become solid starters rather than busts.  At least Sanchez had a very good OL, a very good D, and a few weapons, but he had a stupid HC who predicted a SB victory and put a ton of pressure on his rookie QB.  One of the definitions of insanity is to keep doing things the same way and expecting a different result.  That is even more true when the approach does not use a sound pedagogical/training approach, and throwing a young out there when he isn't ready, is a totally unsound pedagogical approach.  It shows that the team doesn't have a plan or a clue how to develop a QB.

If they don't get a better OC and QB Coach, it won't matter if they start a rookie QB day one or let him sit, he probably won't develop anyway, but he'll have a better chance of developing if they have a decent veteran starter than can mentor the rookie while the rookie sits and learns.

There are two QBs I know of who were drafted in the 1st round and then sat for 2-3 years before they started.  Their names?  Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love.  Sitting certainly didn't hurt either one, and once they did start they played at a pretty high level.

 

[bonkertons]

5 hours ago, JKlecko said:

We totally disagree on this.  The fact is that few drafted QBs wind up being Strouds or Burrows.  Most bust, or become career JAGS and backups. 30-40 years ago, rookie QBs never started their rookie season.  They sat and learned  and they had fewer busts. 

How is it best for the team to waste a high draft pick (because that's what you're doing if you don't put that rookie QB in a position to succeed)?  The answer is that it isn't what's best for the team in either the short term or long term.  If you invest a high 1st round draft pick on a QB, you'd better do every thing you can to ensure that he has the best chances to develop, and that doesn't include just throwing him to the wolves if he isn't ready to play.  If that QB doesn't develop, it hurts the team for 3-5 years or longer.  Not on then do they not have a QB of the future, but they missed on a topflight prospect at another position.  Throwing a rookie QB to the wolves when he isn't ready to play in the NFL is just flat out nuts imo.  The team isn't going to win, and it's just going to screw up the QB.  It's not the way you develop anyone, much less the most important position on the team.  Rookie QBs need time to learn the offense, particularly a complex offense like the WCO, to adapt to the speed of the NFL, to learn to read the complex Ds in the NFL, and to work on their fundamentals.   Minshew or Brissett are going to win more games than a rookie QB.

Maybe just maybe, if the Jets had had a quality OC and QB Coach, had a decent veteran who could start for a year or two and they had let Sam, Geno, Sanchez, and Zach sit for a year or two before they saw the field, at least one or two of those would have become solid starters rather than busts.  At least Sanchez had a very good OL, a very good D, and a few weapons, but he had a stupid HC who predicted a SB victory and put a ton of pressure on his rookie QB.  One of the definitions of insanity is to keep doing things the same way and expecting a different result.  That is even more true when the approach does not use a sound pedagogical/training approach, and throwing a young out there when he isn't ready, is a totally unsound pedagogical approach.  It shows that the team doesn't have a plan or a clue how to develop a QB.

If they don't get a better OC and QB Coach, it won't matter if they start a rookie QB day one or let him sit, he probably won't develop anyway, but he'll have a better chance of developing if they have a decent veteran starter than can mentor the rookie while the rookie sits and learns.

There are two QBs I know of who were drafted in the 1st round and then sat for 2-3 years before they started.  Their names?  Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love.  Sitting certainly didn't hurt either one, and once they did start they played at a pretty high level.

 

Which, again, is why I don't want to draft a kid in 2026.  Travis will have 2 years of development by 2026.  If we draft a kid next year, he'll have a year under his belt.  Regardless, the point is you're not winning sh*t with Minshew or Brissett type QBs.  It's a waste of a season(and if we draft a kid in 2026, you're saying you'd want them QBing for 2 years....ouch).  This would be an awful route to take and just wasting prime years of our best players.

[BigRy56]

I would look into extending both with the season. Still plenty of season left, but Sherwood feels like a future starting LB next to Quincy and Echols has proven he can start in place of Reed. JD could probably lock both of them up for the next couple of years on the cheap

[JKlecko]

6 hours ago, bonkertons said:

Which, again, is why I don't want to draft a kid in 2026.  Travis will have 2 years of development by 2026.  If we draft a kid next year, he'll have a year under his belt.  Regardless, the point is you're not winning sh*t with Minshew or Brissett type QBs.  It's a waste of a season(and if we draft a kid in 2026, you're saying you'd want them QBing for 2 years....ouch).  This would be an awful route to take and just wasting prime years of our best players.

If you think Travis is the answer, then I don't know what to tell you.

It's not a waste of a season.  You're not winning sh*t with a rookie QB who isn't ready to play, either, and you'll win more and be more respectable with a Minshew or Brissett than you would with a QB who isn't ready to play, and whose play holds back the rest of the team and the other young players' development.

Your approach is a panic or fear-driven approach.  If a team doesn't have a great QB, then yes whatever great players they do have will have wasted prime years.  That's happening with a rookie QB who isn't to play and if you can't see that, you're delusional or just being obtuse.

[bonkertons]

17 hours ago, JKlecko said:

If you think Travis is the answer, then I don't know what to tell you.

It's not a waste of a season.  You're not winning sh*t with a rookie QB who isn't ready to play, either, and you'll win more and be more respectable with a Minshew or Brissett than you would with a QB who isn't ready to play, and whose play holds back the rest of the team and the other young players' development.

Your approach is a panic or fear-driven approach.  If a team doesn't have a great QB, then yes whatever great players they do have will have wasted prime years.  That's happening with a rookie QB who isn't to play and if you can't see that, you're delusional or just being obtuse.

My dude, how many times do I have to say my preference wouldn't be to draft a QB in 2026, for this exact reason?  Panic or fear driven?  The **** are you talking about?  For saying I don't want a Brisset(who you got a nice glimpse of last night) or Minshew operating the offense while we're trying to win a Superbowl?  At that point I'd rather just go for another Rodgers type solution - some veteran QB on his way out.  

Any other predictions you can send my way as well?  Should have had you in the draft room when they decided to take Travis.  What about the whole draft a kid in 2025 and sit him for a year?  Is that also not good?  Is the science that a QB needs at least 2 years of sitting and waiting in order to be good?  Just want to understand how this works.

[TuscanyTile2]

I wanted JD to either trade or sign DJ Reed going into this year.  Not because he's not a good player but because he's on the last year of his deal.  I hate the idea of losing quality players and getting nothing in return for them.

[JKlecko]

4 hours ago, bonkertons said:

My dude, how many times do I have to say my preference wouldn't be to draft a QB in 2026, for this exact reason?  Panic or fear driven?  The **** are you talking about?  For saying I don't want a Brisset(who you got a nice glimpse of last night) or Minshew operating the offense while we're trying to win a Superbowl?  At that point I'd rather just go for another Rodgers type solution - some veteran QB on his way out.  

Any other predictions you can send my way as well?  Should have had you in the draft room when they decided to take Travis.  What about the whole draft a kid in 2025 and sit him for a year?  Is that also not good?  Is the science that a QB needs at least 2 years of sitting and waiting in order to be good?  Just want to understand how this works.

You obviously can't see how your posts come across.  Try going back and re-reading what you wrote in your responses.  You might learn something.

[bonkertons]

1 hour ago, JKlecko said:

You obviously can't see how your posts come across.  Try going back and re-reading what you wrote in your responses.  You might learn something.

You're probably right.  I could have sworn that I read that you wanted to start a guy like Minshew or Brissett in a year with SB aspirations but surely that can't be accurate.  I'll re-read.  Thanks for the suggestion!

[Mr. Rogers]

It's funny. I've defended Mosley here in the past for his brains, inside run stuffing (which we've often lacked) and leadership.

But the defense has looked better without him these last couple weeks lol. Maybe the niners game is a bias point, but I'd be curious to see how this team looks with Sherwood continuing to start. Couldn't hurt to give Mosley extra time to make sure he's healed, right?