Grass May Not Be Greener

[ARodJetsFan]

6 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I agree there. He's done the job, so he is qualified. My point was just that Downing wasn't exactly this play caller for a great offense the 2 years he did call plays.

I never said he was great, all I said is Downing has had some success in the league and deserved a shot to call the plays - which is an accurate statement.

He will also be handling all of the game planning moving forward, per Ulbrich's presser today, so we'll see how he does.

I would be surprised if there wasn't at least SOME improvement.

[Plen T]

2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

We are not changing anything.  Its hysterical you guys believe anything that comes out of these guys mouths.

Rodgers is running the show.  Hackett aint going anywhere..  

it is literally a different person calling plays

literally

[EM31]

Best the we can do under the circumstances.  I am sure the interim HC probably does not have hiring power right now to bring someone in from outside and who would even be available or want to come here mid-season so that leaves in-house.

Even if the move was largely symbolic the symbolism here for Hackett is unmistakable. 

[Plen T]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

We are a baseball team that cant hit so we fired our pitching coach.

Laughable.

Quoting Michael Kay is laughable

This isn’t baseball kid

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

If Rodgers is changing most of the calls at the LOS anyway - I'm not sure the play caller is making all that much different.

You my friend are way too smart to actually believe it’s that simple.  Rodgers is not the play caller, he works with the play call and adjusts as he sees fit, within a box.

The play caller needs to think outside the box and put the offense in a starting position to succeed.  That is not forcing the run or continuing to use 2 TE sets that have become a liability.  Maybe it’s stretching the field, taking advantage of mismatches, going up tempo, using motion to identify defensive alignments, and adding some much needed creativity.   

 

[Larz]

It’s encouraging that Brich read the room, listened to the (presumed) feedback and Hackett paid some sort of price. Not shaking up the coaching on offense would have been a big mistake.
 

Ok but that was a layup.
I’d like to see Bates benched for Firkser and Lazard to get benched in the first quarter or something. That would really send a message. 
 

Marshawn Lynch 891 rushing yards, 7 TD

2021, Titans offensive coordinator
- 20th DVOA
- 17th yards per game (324.1) (5th in rushing 141.4)
- 15th PPG (24.6)
- Ryan Tannehill: 3,734 yards, 21 TD, 14 INT, 67.2 completion %
- Derrick Henry: 937 rushing yards, 10 TD
- AJ Brown: 63 catches, 869 yards, 5 TD

2022, Titans offensive coordinator 
- 21st DVOA
- 30th yards per game (296.8)
- 28th points per game (17.5)
- Ryan Tannehill: 2,536 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 65.2 completion % (12 games)
- Derrick Henry: 1,538 yards, 13 TD

[NYJCAP2]

2 hours ago, ARodJetsFan said:

There is no way to quantify that, one way or the other.

Make the change, it can't hurt anything and it might actually help.

I’m interested to see how they start games now.

Usually the first 12-15 plays of the games are scripted and game planned specific.

If they score on the opening drives Downing might be on to something.

[Be_a_Jet]

3 hours ago, Claymation said:

Who the hell hired him,  HCs are responsible for their staff.

I get that the Jets wanted to lure Aaron here, make Hackett a special assistant to the OC or passing coordinator. Who gives a Eff what his title was here. Saleh made him the OC. Saleh hired Carter. He is responsible for this mess. 

I bet defense attorneys would love to have you on their jury.

Quick question: can you read lol 

[DJF71]

3 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

We are not changing anything.  Its hysterical you guys believe anything that comes out of these guys mouths.

Rodgers is running the show.  Hackett aint going anywhere..  

13-4 baby!

[Claymation]

2 minutes ago, Be_a_Jet said:

Quick question: can you read lol 

I’m guessing humor isn’t one of your strong suit.

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, Pac said:

For all the crap Hackett is taking, most of it deserved, the Jets were able to run the ball last year with far less talent on the line. 

Fact is right now the line is playing like sht.  Between Olu getting thrown around and the TEs missing block after block it's no wonder Breece can't get off.  

This vid is gross. 

 

Yeah but what that video doesn't show is all the revenge that is being had.

[Be_a_Jet]

2 minutes ago, Claymation said:

I’m guessing humor isn’t one of your strong suit.

You made the same point I made lol. We literally said the same thing. 
 

also I cannot be held responsible for your lack of funny 

[Pac]

3 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Yeah but what that video doesn't show is all the revenge that is being had.

Hold that thought, chooch.  There's 12 games to go. 

[jeremy2020]

6 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Rumor is we might be switching play calling duties to Todd Downing. While a change I 100% think is needed. Let’s not act like Downing is this good offensive mind. His last year calling plays he had TEN as a bottom 2 offense in the league and even the year before that just middle of the pack.

So unless he’s changed drastically over the last couple years….. it’s hard to imagine he gets play calling duties and is a savior for us.

Well, to be fair.. in Tennessee he had Keith Carter coaching his offensive line so that makes it hard to have success.

[GangGreened]

The grass will likely be the same shade of deep brown that it is now 

[RutgersJetFan]

34 minutes ago, Pac said:

Hold that thought, chooch.  There's 12 games to go. 

Man that's crazy because Mortal Kombat 12 is actually titled Revenge. Please don't ask me how I know that.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Plen T said:

Downing actually has some good metrics

He was stuck with Tanny in Tenn and they had the worst receiver room in the sport

Look at him with Carr

Or maybe don't look.

Yeah it was a long time ago in his first stint as OC, but upon Downing getting promoted to OC in 2017 Carr's numbers plummeted in every metric without exception from 2016. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CarrDe02/gamelog/#33-47-sum:stats

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CarrDe02/gamelog/#48-62-sum:stats

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

6 hours ago, Biggs said:

The acquisition of Rodgers and his Super Friends have set the organization back 3 to 5 years.   The grass is dead.

[Bronx]

A team that exhibits both fight and discipline marks an improvement. Immediate consequences for drops, subpar route-running, and missed blocks are necessary. Poor play-calling should not lead to losses; however, if this trend persists, starting afresh may be the best strategy moving forward.

[Plen T]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Or maybe don't look.

Yeah it was a long time ago in his first stint as OC, but upon Downing getting promoted to OC in 2017 Carr's numbers plummeted in every metric without exception from 2016. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CarrDe02/gamelog/#33-47-sum:stats

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CarrDe02/gamelog/#48-62-sum:stats

That’s not plummeting lol

and 28-6 is a superb year for a can like Carr

[JKlecko]

4 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

You my friend are way too smart to actually believe it’s that simple.  Rodgers is not the play caller, he works with the play call and adjusts as he sees fit, within a box.

The play caller needs to think outside the box and put the offense in a starting position to succeed.  That is not forcing the run or continuing to use 2 TE sets that have become a liability.  Maybe it’s stretching the field, taking advantage of mismatches, going up tempo, using motion to identify defensive alignments, and adding some much needed creativity.   

 

Not being predictable and using creativity.  What a concept!  Has Hackett helped the OL and Rodgers out at all this year by calling a screen pass or draw?

[JKlecko]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Or maybe don't look.

Yeah it was a long time ago in his first stint as OC, but upon Downing getting promoted to OC in 2017 Carr's numbers plummeted in every metric without exception from 2016. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CarrDe02/gamelog/#33-47-sum:stats

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CarrDe02/gamelog/#48-62-sum:stats

You're better than this.  Those numbers aren't plummeting. The only numbers that really dropped that much were Completion percentage and the number of interceptions doubled.  The Rushing yardage actually got better.  There could be many reasons to explain why Carr's numbers were down.  Were key offensive players from 2016 injured or on another team?  Since his number of fumbles increased, I would guess that maybe a key OL starter was injured and he was under pressure more, and the increased number of sacks seems to support that idea.  Did Carr have some injury or personal issues that distracted him?

[Alka]

10 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Rumor is we might be switching play calling duties to Todd Downing. While a change I 100% think is needed. Let’s not act like Downing is this good offensive mind. His last year calling plays he had TEN as a bottom 2 offense in the league and even the year before that just middle of the pack.

So unless he’s changed drastically over the last couple years….. it’s hard to imagine he gets play calling duties and is a savior for us.

I'm not looking for a savior.  I'm looking for accountability.  If I get that, then I will be happy.

Hackett hasn't gotten it done, and he lost his position.  That is called accountability.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Plen T said:

That’s not plummeting lol

and 28-6 is a superb year for a can like Carr

46 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

You're better than this.  Those numbers aren't plummeting. The only numbers that really dropped that much were Completion percentage and the number of interceptions doubled.  The Rushing yardage actually got better.  There could be many reasons to explain why Carr's numbers were down.  Were key offensive players from 2016 injured or on another team?  Since his number of fumbles increased, I would guess that maybe a key OL starter was injured and he was under pressure more, and the increased number of sacks seems to support that idea.  Did Carr have some injury or personal issues that distracted him?

 

It's a plummet when someone goes from #3 in MVP voting to being a tepid pro bowl alternate with an 86 QB rating whose season was arguably no better than Dalton, Josh McCown, or Blake Bortles among a far weaker next tier of QBs in the AFC vs NFC.

A 22:13 TD:INT ratio QBing a 19 ppg offense is absolutely a plummet from 440 more passing yards and a 28:6 ratio QBing a 26 ppg offense in the same number of starts.

Even beyond the year-end stats, there was more stat-padding of his good games and chokes in his bad games: in 2017 Oakland lost more games (4) when the D gave up 20 or less than they lost all year with Carr in 2016, plus Oakland was undefeated in 2016 when the D held the opponent to 20 or less. 

It doesn't necessarily mean anything for a different team 7 years later with a very different QB and offense around him, but that's all a huge plummet.

[C Mart]

10 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Rumor is we might be switching play calling duties to Todd Downing. While a change I 100% think is needed. Let’s not act like Downing is this good offensive mind. His last year calling plays he had TEN as a bottom 2 offense in the league and even the year before that just middle of the pack.

So unless he’s changed drastically over the last couple years….. it’s hard to imagine he gets play calling duties and is a savior for us.

Let's see how it goes from here on out..It's not just the play calls..It still comes down to talent, identifying tendencies and players executing. How would you compare Rodgers (on 1 leg) to Tannehill?

[C Mart]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Or maybe don't look.

Yeah it was a long time ago in his first stint as OC, but upon Downing getting promoted to OC in 2017 Carr's numbers plummeted in every metric without exception from 2016. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CarrDe02/gamelog/#33-47-sum:stats

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CarrDe02/gamelog/#48-62-sum:stats

In 2015, Downing was hired by the Oakland Raiders as their quarterbacks coach under head coach Jack Del Rio.  Downing is credited for helping Derek Carr become the first Raiders quarterback to be selected to a Pro Bowl since 2002. 

On January 20, 2015, Downing was named by Pro Football Focus as Quarterbacks Coach of the Year.

After coaching Raiders quarterbacks for two years, he was promoted to offensive coordinator in 2017, after the Raiders decided not to renew Bill Musgrave's contract.

When Downing coached Carr from 2015–16, he threw for 7,924 yards, 60 touchdowns, and 19 interceptions with two Pro Bowl appearances.

 

Yes - I know QB coach vs OC have different responsibilities.  He has also gained more playcalling experience since. Do the Jets have more talent vs those Raiders teams?  So many other variables.  

 

 Oct 15, 2017

Last year was the return of the old Oakland Raiders on the offensive side of the ball. And it all started with the biggest and best offensive line in the NFL. They opened up holes in the power running game and gave quarterback Derek Carr time to throw deep.

Latavius Murray was the lead running back and, of course, Carr had receivers Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree to throw the ball down the field to. The result was the No. 6 overall offense and the No. 7 scoring offense in the league. It was the offense that carried the team to a 12-4 record and their first playoff berth since 2002.

Coaching staffs of 12-4 teams don’t usually change unless the assistants get better offers elsewhere. But the Raiders let go of offensive coordinator Bill Musgrave presumably in part for his decision to throw the ball late against the Indianapolis Colts which ultimately led to Carr’s leg injury and the Raiders’ failure in the playoffs.

It’s easy to say Musgrave made the wrong decision after the injury but the Raiders didn’t have a running back that could close out games. Musgrave loves to run the ball but he was trying to get first downs the best way he could. The Raiders have since added Marshawn Lynch and freakishly athletic tight end Jared Cook and yet somehow with Downing at OC, the offense is actually worse. It is now the NFL’s No. 30 offense in yards and in the middle of the pack in points per game.

Downing is taking a square peg offense and trying to fit it into a round hole. The Raiders’ huge offensive line was made to come off the ball and maul people. But Downing wants to feel like he’s doing something so he has them stepping sideways in the zone scheme. Even Lynch begged for and got power running plays while in a zone-based scheme in Seattle. That should tell Downing what his offense is made for.

In the passing game, Downing has almost completely done away with the deep ball. Amari Cooper is a down-the-field, big-play threat, Cook is a vertical tight end and speedster Cordarrelle Patterson can also go long. But the passing game is horizontal instead of vertical now. With all the athletes he has, Downing has turned the passing game into three yards and a cloud of dust. The Raiders are even throwing three-yard passes on 3rd-and-10 these days.

Cooper has had his problems holding onto the ball this year and it’s not helping that Downing isn’t playing to his strengths. Cooper is a deep threat that can get you with his blazing speed and double moves. Those skills are not be properly utilized.

When the Raiders stretched the field last year, opposing teams had to pick their poison and someone was left open. Now opposing teams can sit in the same defense to stop the run or the short pass.

This week, the Los Angeles Chargers couldn’t get Lynch on the ground, much less stop him. So giving him just 13 carries on the day is a crime Downing committed against his own team. He’s done that a lot lately as the Raiders have lost four in a row, three to fleas like the Washington Redskins, Baltimore Ravens and the Chargers.

The loss to the Chargers hurt badly because they could have regrouped with 3-3 record. Now they are in last place in the AFC West at 2-4 with the Chargers owning the tiebreaker.

Going into this year, the Raiders just needed the defense to play a little better to be contenders. And even with all the injuries they’ve had, they are. But that isn’t doing the Raiders any good because Downing is ruining the Raiders’ offense and therefore their once hopeful season.

https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2017/10/15/16477716/todd-downings-offense-is-ruining-the-oakland-raiders-season

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

32 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

It's a plummet when someone goes from #3 in MVP voting to being a tepid pro bowl alternate with an 86 QB rating whose season was arguably no better than Dalton, Josh McCown, or Blake Bortles among a far weaker next tier of QBs in the AFC vs NFC.

A 22:13 TD:INT ratio QBing a 19 ppg offense is absolutely a plummet from 440 more passing yards and a 28:6 ratio QBing a 26 ppg offense in the same number of starts.

Even beyond the year-end stats, there was more stat-padding of his good games and chokes in his bad games: in 2017 Oakland lost more games (4) when the D gave up 20 or less than they lost all year with Carr in 2016, plus Oakland was undefeated in 2016 when the D held the opponent to 20 or less. 

It doesn't necessarily mean anything for a different team 7 years later with a very different QB and offense around him, but that's all a huge plummet.

His fumbles went up.. that's a good thing ... wait .. damnit

[C Mart]

7 hours ago, Larz said:

It’s encouraging that Brich read the room, listened to the (presumed) feedback and Hackett paid some sort of price. Not shaking up the coaching on offense would have been a big mistake.
 

Ok but that was a layup.
I’d like to see Bates benched for Firkser and Lazard to get benched in the first quarter or something. That would really send a message. 
 

Marshawn Lynch 891 rushing yards, 7 TD

2021, Titans offensive coordinator
- 20th DVOA
- 17th yards per game (324.1) (5th in rushing 141.4)
- 15th PPG (24.6)
- Ryan Tannehill: 3,734 yards, 21 TD, 14 INT, 67.2 completion %
- Derrick Henry: 937 rushing yards, 10 TD
- AJ Brown: 63 catches, 869 yards, 5 TD

2022, Titans offensive coordinator 
- 21st DVOA
- 30th yards per game (296.8)
- 28th points per game (17.5)
- Ryan Tannehill: 2,536 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 65.2 completion % (12 games)
- Derrick Henry: 1,538 yards, 13 TD

Not a bad thought. Why?

Firkser was in TN 2018-2021. Downing was his position coach 2019. Carter was OL coach while he was there. Tho I don’t believe blocking is his forte. Then again after Sundays game it wasn’t Bates forte either.

His strengths/ weakness seemed geared towards more of a Conklin like role  

But I could see Jets bringing Firkser up from PS for Monday’s game. 

[Darnold's Forehead]

7 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

You put it in black and white with using excuses for his bad stats.

I'm pro a change on offense and glad we changed play calling duties to him.

My point was just that Downing isn't exactly this offensive genius and we should expect this creative scheming and big points being put up.

 

But to be better than Hackett isn't hard.

Not every coordinator in the league is a genius with creative schemes.  Being a tiny bit better than Hackett gets this team wins the past two weeks and a 4-1 record.

Regardless, play calling hasn’t exactly been the #1 problem on offense.  The problem has been the lack of preparation, execution and overall below-expectations-play from offensive players.

[nyjets1969]

23 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Rumor is we might be switching play calling duties to Todd Downing. While a change I 100% think is needed. Let’s not act like Downing is this good offensive mind. His last year calling plays he had TEN as a bottom 2 offense in the league and even the year before that just middle of the pack.

So unless he’s changed drastically over the last couple years….. it’s hard to imagine he gets play calling duties and is a savior for us.

If he could make this offense middle of the pack that would be better then where they are now. With this defense that be good enough to win 

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, nyjets1969 said:

If he could make this offense middle of the pack that would be better then where they are now. With this defense that be good enough to win 

Absolutely. Time will tell if he can get us to that.