The 2006 NYJ have to make a run at the playoffs

[PatsFanTX]

See,this is exactly what i mean.

I gotta be the only Jet fan who said that Curtis,Chad and Mawae should have been cut if Herman Edwards wasn't returning as the HC.As for Coles and JMac oh well,maybe one day they will get a QB capable of allowing them that Luxury.

Tinstar, relax buddy.

I'm just messing with you.

[bitonti]

Mangini didn't come here to lose. They very well could make a run this year - the key is the QB position. Last place schedule, no clear favorite in the division - anything can happen. Worst to first happens every year in the NFL.

[Savage69]

See,this is exactly what i mean.

I gotta be the only Jet fan who said that Curtis,Chad and Mawae should have been cut if Herman Edwards wasn't returning as the HC.As for Coles and JMac oh well,maybe one day they will get a QB capable of allowing them that Luxury.

Did you want those 3 cut when Hermie came in?? They were Tuna's doing not Hermie! On a Lower level Hermie was to the Jets what George Seifert was to the 49's! They did fine with a set team! But I'll give the Flim Flam Man this! He's smart enough to go to another set winning Team! Seifert went to the 4-12 Panthers and was canned in his third season at 1-15!

[SeniorFlaJet]

Although most didn't agree with Tinny's views, this thread was probably

the best I have read on here in a few days.

[PatsFanTX]

1). Last place schedule

2). no clear favorite in the division - anything can happen.

1) Why do you guys continue to use the ridiculous "last place schedule" comment? The Jets play the exact same schedule as the Pats, with the exception of 2 games. That is hardly some "big advantage".

2). Hate to break it to you bit, but the Pats will once again be prohibitive favorites to win the AFCE.

[PatsFanTX]

Although most didn't agree with Tinny's views, this thread was probably

the best I have read on here in a few days.

Once I brought some objectivity to the thread.

[bitonti]

2). Hate to break it to you bit, but the Pats will once again be prohibitive favorites to win the AFCE.

you guys were barely hanging on last year. Someone's gonna knock the Patsies off it's just a matter of who...

don't worry im sure your 4th round pick Bratworstoski will hit all your clutch FG for ya.

[Tinstar2]

Did you want those 3 cut when Hermie came in?? They were Tuna's doing not Hermie! On a Lower level Hermie was to the Jets what George Seifert was to the 49's! They did fine with a set team! But I'll give the Flim Flam Man this! He's smart enough to go to another set winning Team! Seifert went to the 4-12 Panthers and was canned in his third season at 1-15!

Come on now Savage they all had quite a bit left when hermie took over.I will say this thou,i would not have cried if Kevin Mawae had been cut after the way he treated Al Groh.I guess maybe Mangini didn't forget that .

Curtis is old and coming off injury.Mawae is older and coming off injury.Chad is attempting to come back from his 2nd shoulder surgery.

Let me ask you this question.If a guy proves he can coach a talented team,why is it his fault if he proves he can't coach a bunch of Bums.It's one thing if you are the HC/GM where he pick the bums and lose with them.

By the way,i'm not mourning Hermie,he quit and i got no use for quitters.Hermie represented the same thing to me that Mangini does.A young HC who could come in,install a progeram and have the opportunity to do for the Jets what Bill Cower has done for the Steelers. I'm not into how he got the Job as long as the team wins more than they lose.Maybe we will get it right with Mangini

God I hope so.

[Savage69]

Let me ask you this question.If a guy proves he can coach a talented team,why is it his fault if he proves he can't coach a bunch of Bums.It's one thing if you are the HC/GM where he pick the bums and lose with them.

Here's a example for you Tinny..After taking over for Buddy Ryan, Rich Kotite had a better win record for his 4 years there then Hermie did in his first 4 years with the Jets! Then he came to the Jets and the rest was History! You and I could Coach a already built Team that are winners already! The Hard work is making a Losing Team a Winner not riding a winning Team that someone else built! And I agree about Martin..I would have let his contract from the Tuna run out and kept Lamont! Mawae I also agree with and after next season if the Cap allows it Chad will be gone as well! I think Ramsey can Play and I'm real high on the Mighty Duck Clemmons!!

[Sperm Edwards]

See,this is exactly what i mean.

I gotta be the only Jet fan who said that Curtis,Chad and Mawae should have been cut if Herman Edwards wasn't returning as the HC.As for Coles and JMac oh well,maybe one day they will get a QB capable of allowing them that Luxury.

Why should these players be cut but not if Herm was still here?

[Scott Dierking]

Here's a example for you Tinny..After taking over for Buddy Ryan, Rich Kotite had a better win record for his 4 years there then Hermie did in his first 4 years with the Jets! Then he came to the Jets and the rest was History! You and I could Coach a already built Team that are winners already! The Hard work is making a Losing Team a Winner not riding a winning Team that someone else built! And I agree about Martin..I would have let his contract from the Tuna run out and kept Lamont! Mawae I also agree with and after next season if the Cap allows it Chad will be gone as well! I think Ramsey can Play and I'm real high on the Mighty Duck Clemmons!!

Sav-That is a blanket statement (about anyone coming in and continuing a winning way they inherited), that has been proven wrong many times also.

Winning is not a given, as you make it out to seem.

[Tinstar2]

Here's a example for you Tinny..After taking over for Buddy Ryan, Rich Kotite had a better win record for his 4 years there then Hermie did in his first 4 years with the Jets! Then he came to the Jets and the rest was History! You and I could Coach a already built Team that are winners already! The Hard work is making a Losing Team a Winner not riding a winning Team that someone else built! And I agree about Martin..I would have let his contract from the Tuna run out and kept Lamont! Mawae I also agree with and after next season if the Cap allows it Chad will be gone as well! I think Ramsey can Play and I'm real high on the Mighty Duck Clemmons!!

Here's the problem i always had with this talk of a ready made team.The folks who created the team,are all considered and with good reason,to be far and away better coaches than Herman Edwards.Those men,all of em combined,got their team into the playoffs once in a 4 year span.Like i said,i don't care how you win,as long as you win.

I like richie Kotite as a coach,but i think he made some questionable draft picks and assistant coaching choices that led to his demise.Not 1 jet fan can say Kotite's teams didn't play hard.They just had no direction because the staff sucked.Sometimeswhen a HC takes over a bad team,that team has some quality players on it after years of drafting high.If you can show them direction,and surround yourself with decent knowledgeable assistants,you stand a great chance at succeeding..

It's my believe that the downfall of Herman Edwards started 10 seconds after Paul Hackett was fired.Hackett's offense as perfect for Herman Edwards but more importantly it was perfect for Chad Pennington.

[Shadetree]

Tinstar just defended Hackett and Kotite in the same post.

Tinstar's a f-ing beast!!!!

, Tinstar!!!!!

[NIGHT STALKER]

Barry Switzer didn't get credit for winning a SB...they (media and fans) always said it was Johnson's team.

[Tinstar2]

Why should these players be cut but not if Herm was still here?

Is it really that hard to understand.These players are all old,injured and have no place in the rebuilding of a team under a new regime with no ties to them.

These players madeup the heart and soul of the former regime,and could have been afforded 1 last opportunity to prove that last season was marely the product of multiple injuries.The Jets sucked in KC,had the Jags beat had Chrebet hold onto the ball,defeated the bucs and Chad was still not near 100% even before getting injured again.

[Savage69]

It's my believe that the downfall of Herman Edwards started 10 seconds after Paul Hackett was fired.Hackett's offense as perfect for Herman Edwards but more importantly it was perfect for Chad Pennington.

It was even more perfect for the Stat Monkey! Love those 3rd and Long draws!! There was a reason Martin was the only one to attend Hacketts farewell Party held in that Phonebooth on Queens Blvd!! And Hermie's downfall may have started after Hackett was canned..But the Jets rise happened right after the Flim Flam Man took his Clown act to KC!!

[Sperm Edwards]

Is it really that hard to understand.These players are all old,injured and have no place in the rebuilding of a team under a new regime with no ties to them.

These players madeup the heart and soul of the former regime,and could have been afforded 1 last opportunity to prove that last season was marely the product of multiple injuries.The Jets sucked in KC,had the Jags beat had Chrebet hold onto the ball,defeated the bucs and Chad was still not near 100% even before getting injured again.

If they're old & injured they shouldn't be on ANY team except as possibly as an asst/positional coach. Only reason that two of them are here at all is b/c of the cap hit we wouldn't be able to absorb by cutting them all at once thanks to the insane contracts/extensions given to them by Hermway (Bradway doesn't give players extensions without asking the HC if he even wants the player & then telling him what it'll likely cost against the cap.)

[Tinstar2]

If they're old & injured they shouldn't be on ANY team except as possibly as an asst/positional coach. Only reason that two of them are here at all is b/c of the cap hit we wouldn't be able to absorb by cutting them all at once thanks to the insane contracts/extensions given to them by Hermway (Bradway doesn't give players extensions without asking the HC if he even wants the player & then telling him what it'll likely cost against the cap.)

1 _ Mawae was in the last yr of his deal

2 _ Martin's contract had to be restructured because the team would have taken a 10 mil cap hit to cut him back when his restructure happened.By the way,who restructured Curtis's contract this off season.

3 _ Chad was given that 64mil contract by Herm and Bradway,so they could afford to keep him around and work with him.Come june 1sst,Mangini and his regime can cut Chad and spread his cap hit over the next 2 yrs.With all the cap space we currently have,we can afford this move.

[Tinstar2]

It was even more perfect for the Stat Monkey! Love those 3rd and Long draws!! There was a reason Martin was the only one to attend Hacketts farewell Party held in that Phonebooth on Queens Blvd!! And Hermie's downfall may have started after Hackett was canned..But the Jets rise happened right after the Flim Flam Man took his Clown act to KC!!

God i hope so Savage.Losing sucks especially when the Teams in your division are the one's winning it all.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 _ Mawae was in the last yr of his deal

No argument here. But you suggested he should stay if Herm was still here (as though we'd be contenders under Herm this year if he stayed on)

2 _ Martin's contract had to be restructured because the team would have taken a 10 mil cap hit to cut him back when his restructure happened.By the way,who restructured Curtis's contract this off season.

This was killed by me on this board and JI when it happened. It was just dumb, as it would've cost another $2M or so against the 2006 cap to cut him outright & we'd be free of his contract forever after that. If the CBA was reached earlier I doubt this would've been done though. But since you threw it out there: Curtis' original SB was $6M from the Tuna, so how could there still be $10M left to come off the cap if he was cut before that $46M extension? Answer: there couldn't, and there wasn't. Hermway just decided in their wisdom to give another $13M+ in guaranteed money to a 29 year-old RB already in the top-10 on the all-time carries list. He would've cost ~$8M+ on the cap to KEEP him without restructuring, but most of that came from his scheduled salary for the year (not from SB money).

3 _ Chad was given that 64mil contract by Herm and Bradway,so they could afford to keep him around and work with him.Come june 1sst,Mangini and his regime can cut Chad and spread his cap hit over the next 2 yrs.With all the cap space we currently have,we can afford this move.

You don't give someone an $18M SB (and a $3M RB bonus due 2 years later in addition to a bloated salary) so you CAN afford to keep him (while he was still under his rookie deal). It was one of the dumbest signings in NFL history. Without a single 16-game season under his belt, an arm that was weaker than when he was drafted, and his limitations being exposed league-wide, and a single 9-win season on his resume (including the playoffs), you don't make that player the (then) 2nd-highest paid player in NFL history.

[Savage69]

No argument here. But you suggested he should stay if Herm was still here (as though we'd be contenders under Herm this year if he stayed on)

This was killed by me on this board and JI when it happened. It was just dumb, as it would've cost another $2M or so against the 2006 cap to cut him outright & we'd be free of his contract forever after that. If the CBA was reached earlier I doubt this would've been done though. But since you threw it out there: Curtis' original SB was $6M from the Tuna, so how could there still be $10M left to come off the cap if he was cut before that $46M extension? Answer: there couldn't, and there wasn't. Hermway just decided in their wisdom to give another $13M+ in guaranteed money to a 29 year-old RB already in the top-10 on the all-time carries list. He would've cost ~$8M+ on the cap to KEEP him without restructuring, but most of that came from his scheduled salary for the year (not from SB money).

You don't give someone an $18M SB (and a $3M RB bonus due 2 years later in addition to a bloated salary) so you CAN afford to keep him (while he was still under his rookie deal). It was one of the dumbest signings in NFL history. Without a single 16-game season under his belt, an arm that was weaker than when he was drafted, and his limitations being exposed league-wide, and a single 9-win season on his resume (including the playoffs), you don't make that player the (then) 2nd-highest paid player in NFL history.

Well said Spermy and all true!! Another blunder by the Crew with no Clue!

[Tinstar2]

I'm too lazy to go back and researched the Contract Tuna gave Curtis when he stole him from the Pats,but there's noway he only got 6mil worth of Guaranteed money.The Pats would have never let him go.

[GimmeShelter]

You're joking, right?

The Jets have an entire new coaching staff. That means totally new schemes on both sides of the football.

They will have two rookies starting on the OLine. Now matter how good Ferguson and Mangold will be, rookies make rookie mistakes.

The Jets have no proven RB's. And please spare me the 34-year old CuMar "is a proven NFL RB" crap. Old RB's do not make it in the NFL.

The Jets QB situation is a complete mess with a ton of unanswered question marks at the most important position on the field.

The Jets defense was ranked 29th in the NFL versus the run. The same losers who couldn't stop the run are back, minus a Pro Bowl DE. No improvement whatsoever in this area.

The Jets secondary is still very weak. Add to this the loss of a CB who contributed 10 picks and it is weaker yet going into the season.

With that said, how the hell do you think the Jets can "contend for the Super Bowl and be a playoff team" in 2006?

And you wonder why Pats fans post here and make fun of Jet fans.

If the Jets finish the season at 8-8, it will be a great year.

Agree but the Pats in 05 did make the play-offs (albeit due to a soft division and softer 2nd half schedule) with:

no running back,

no running game,

no secondary,

brand new coordinators

no ability to stop any passing game with a pulse.

The PATS also started a rookie Offensive Lineman sport.

If we have a healthy QB and improve against the run why can't we be better?

And you wonder why Jets fans don't take you seriously.

[mbn007]

1) Why do you guys continue to use the ridiculous "last place schedule" comment? The Jets play the exact same schedule as the Pats, with the exception of 2 games. That is hardly some "big advantage".

2). Hate to break it to you bit, but the Pats will once again be prohibitive favorites to win the AFCE.

It is true that there really are not that many games separating the 2 schedules. But in the NFL, anything can happen, so you never know.

But your second comment is so true. Sure, there will be some pundits who fawn themselves at the altar of Dante Culpepper and the Fish, but when reality sets in, they will realize that it is really a 1 team race.

[Savage69]

I'm too lazy to go back and researched the Contract Tuna gave Curtis when he stole him from the Pats,but there's noway he only got 6mil worth of Guaranteed money.The Pats would have never let him go.

Pats offered him the same Money for the exception of letting the player void the contract after 1 year!

New York Jets coach Bill Parcells had a visitor yesterday who wanted to talk about Curtis Martin's contract. The visitor, a representative from the NFL's management council, is trying to determine whether there was any collusion between Parcells and Martin's agent in creating a contract that the New England Patriots, Martin's previous team, declined to match. In landing Martin, the Jets were very creative. They gave Martin two options: he could sign a one-year, $4million deal with the Jets after which he would be a free agent, or he could agree to a six-year agreement with a value of $36 million. Martin has not said which of those options he will choose, although he has to make a decision by April 15.

[mbn007]

Barry Switzer didn't get credit for winning a SB...they (media and fans) always said it was Johnson's team.

Hey. Jerry Jones didn't want to overpay for Jimmy Johnson after the 2 SB, and issued that comment that 500 guys could win with this bunch.

He then hired Switzer, I guess he found the 501st guy, as they did not win the 1st year.

[Savage69]

Hey. Jerry Jones didn't want to overpay for Jimmy Johnson after the 2 SB, and issued that comment that 500 guys could win with this bunch.

He then hired Switzer, I guess he found the 501st guy, as they did not win the 1st year.

Yeah but Barry went 12-4 his first 2 years and in his first year he lost to the 49's in the Championship Game! That's not that shabby! Hermophiles would have made Hermie God if he did that!

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm too lazy to go back and researched the Contract Tuna gave Curtis when he stole him from the Pats,but there's noway he only got 6mil worth of Guaranteed money.The Pats would have never let him go.

http://www2.jsonline.com:80/packer/sbxxxiii/news/pack72998.stm

Look in the right-hand margin:

Curtis Martin, New York Jets

Six years, $36 million

$4.26 million signing bonus

1998 -- $275,000 base salary and $3.3 million roster bonus

1999 -- $1.353 million base salary and $2 million roster bonus

2000 -- $4.360 million base salary

2001 -- $5.365 million base salary

2002 -- $6.270 million base salary

2003 -- $7.975 million base salary

Roster bonuses come off the cap in the year they're awarded (they don't get amortized). So the cap hit for cutting him after the 2001 season would've been negligible (about $1.4M).

It was a dumb extension, as well as an unnecessary one.

[Savage69]

http://www2.jsonline.com:80/packer/sbxxxiii/news/pack72998.stm

Look in the right-hand margin:

Curtis Martin, New York Jets

Six years, $36 million

$4.26 million signing bonus

1998 -- $275,000 base salary and $3.3 million roster bonus

1999 -- $1.353 million base salary and $2 million roster bonus

2000 -- $4.360 million base salary

2001 -- $5.365 million base salary

2002 -- $6.270 million base salary

2003 -- $7.975 million base salary

Roster bonuses come off the cap in the year they're awarded (they don't get amortized). So the cap hit for cutting him after the 2001 season would've been negligible (about $1.4M).

It was a dumb extension, as well as an unnecessary one.

And in 01 they Drafted Jordan..But Hermie being a Big Martinette Fan wanted the Stat Monkey and the rest is history!!:Cuss:

[BaumerJet]

Tinstar.....DUDE

I have green-colored glasses, too....but....WTF?!

You're kidding, right?

.500 is all we should hope for this year.

Man, Tx is going to feast on this one...

Tabor, I think it's the water there because I agree with you & I get my water from the same aquifer as you - LAKE HOPATCONG!

Tinstar, Bitonti - Guys...

WE HAVEN'T EVEN HAD TRAINING CAMP YET!

While on PAPER we look great, we still have to see how they will gel together durring The regular season...

While I believe that we could very well end up 9-7 this coming year, which would be a great thing for a ROOKIE GM & HEAD COACH, it's still only MAY!

Don't do what YOUNG NY JETS' fans do year after year - Set themselves so high that when we do great, it just isn't good enough!

We are a team in transition with a 4th place wildcard schedule - which should define to everyone the difference between our schedule & the Pats - It's a difference of 2 AFC teams.

We could make a run if we play like a 2nd place division team - which is very likely...

However, I have to repeat - FOR GOD'S SAKE IT'S ONLY MAY 9TH!

[serphnx]

What kills me is how the Hermway defenders will outright lie to justify the mistakes made by their two heroes, refuse to ever show any proof, and then ignore the proof others show for it. Yet, at the same time, they're busy bashing Parcells and whoever comes afterwards. Exactly what did Herm do to people? Hypnotize them? Or did he pay people in the media off and hire fake posters to spread this misinformation?

[Apollo Belvidere]

My Reasoning is simple.

Last yr was the yr of no excuses .

This yr,the Offensive line is stronger.Exit Fabini and Mawae,enter Ferguson,Mangold,Teague and Clements

The receivers are the same

The QB situation is better/Chad was coming off shoulder surgery last yr also.Ramsey is as good as Fielder in some eyes,not mine.Bollinger:) has starting experience,something he didn't last yr.Clements is the new golden boy.

The Rbs are improved and all healthy.

The defensive Line is missing ABe but so what,the team is switching to the 34defense.

The LBers are improved

The secondary is Improved

The Coaching Staff has the support of the fan base.

You make changes to improve,not get worst.I'm not saying like most did last yr that the Jets need to make the SB,or that they even need to make the Playoffs.I expect this team to make a run at those Playoffs and anything short of that will be a failure.

How do you think the Chiefs will do this year? They're a better team than the Jets, right?

[Apollo Belvidere]

What kills me is how the Hermway defenders will outright lie to justify the mistakes made by their two heroes, refuse to ever show any proof, and then ignore the proof others show for it. Yet, at the same time, they're busy bashing Parcells and whoever comes afterwards. Exactly what did Herm do to people? Hypnotize them? Or did he pay people in the media off and hire fake posters to spread this misinformation?

Not only will they lie, they will smear other Jets fans. After all, you have to be a bigot to criticise Hermy. I mean, what other reason can it be?

[Tinstar2]

How do you think the Chiefs will do this year? They're a better team than the Jets, right?

Who cares,i'm a Jet Fan,and all I care about is the Jets.What Herman edwards does this yr is of no concern to me,but what he did before when he was the Jet Hc will always concern me.

[Apollo Belvidere]

Who cares,i'm a Jet Fan,and all I care about is the Jets.What Herman edwards does this yr is of no concern to me,but what he did before when he was the Jet Hc will always concern me.

I didn't ask you if you care (I think you DO CARE but anyway), I asked you what you think the Chiefs will do. Here, I'll simplify it for you:

Are the Chiefs a better football team than the Jets?