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If I had to chose I'd rather have Dontrelle. He is 24, Zito is 28. Dontrelle is just now coming into his prime.

Zito is a laid back, west coast guy who may not adjust to NY well, like many others that have tried. With his personality, Dontrelle IMO, would have no problem pitching in NY. In a year or 2 he'd take over for Pedro as ace of the staff.

All that being said, I think it would take more than Miledge to get Dontrelle. There will be plenty of teams, Angels, Red Sox, Dodgers to name a few, looking to get him, so the price will be high. He is signed for another 3 years I think, so the ball is in the Marlins court. They can hold out for the package they want.

Dontrelle is signed for this year only. But he is not eligible for FA for 2 more seasons. His arbitration price will be high though.

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Blackout-Neither has won a WS, and that is what is most important.

It may be interesting to see which gets their's first.

so Ted Williams' entire career was a waste? What about Ty Cobb? Bonds*?

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Where did I say that?

You disagree that winning a WS is the most important accomplishment for a player? Then what is?

The goals for players have changed over the years. I will break it down for you.

Beginning of time through 1940: The goal was to play a game that they loved. To play it as a team and try to win as a team.

1941 - 1979: The goal was to hate the owners and figure out a way to actually make a living out of playing this sport. Some players still tried to win and played hard.

1980- 1995: The goal was to inflate yourt stats and not get hurt. Because there was so much money to be made. Rather than play for your team, you played for your next contract.

1996 - Present: The goal is passing drug tests.

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The goals for players have changed over the years. I will break it down for you.

Beginning of time through 1940: The goal was to play a game that they loved. To play it as a team and try to win as a team.

1941 - 1979: The goal was to hate the owners and figure out a way to actually make a living out of playing this sport. Some players still tried to win and played hard.

1980- 1995: The goal was to inflate yourt stats and not get hurt. Because there was so much money to be made. Rather than play for your team, you played for your next contract.

1996 - Present: The goal is passing drug tests.

Sad thing is, you are not far off from the truth there.

Ever read the book "Lords of the Realm"? I highly recommend it. It should be a primer for anyone understanding owner-player relations.

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Jermaine...

The thread was closed for about 30 seconds. You are so stupid though it is beyond belief. I locked it just to try to put an end to your stupidity. Then I said if I have to suffer so should everyone else and I unlocked it.

You owned me? You owned Scott Dierking? Interesting. You do not have the ability to argue intelligently. How old are you? Seems like you are 14 or so. David Wright is better than AROD. Statememnts like that usually indicate a 14 year old brain.

You are a tool. JBF is a smart guy. He knows baseball. I know JBF. You are no JBF. Give it up already.

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Isn't it hilarious how brain-damaged wankers like Jermy think they "own" people?

Looks like Zippy has a worthy successor.

Bob that is not a fair statement. JBF says a lot of stuff. A lot of crazy stuff. But when he is outlandish he is joking. He knows the game. Jermaine is just ignorant when it comes to baseball.

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Sad thing is, you are not far off from the truth there.

Ever read the book "Lords of the Realm"? I highly recommend it. It should be a primer for anyone understanding owner-player relations.

Never read that book.

I just kind of rounded the years. But it is amazing when you think back. The players that left the game for a few seasons to fight in WWII. Just amazing.

A lot of those guys are rolling over in there graves. What they fought for both here and on foreign soil. They fought so hard to build this. Then when you think of how the owners and players can't work through it. It is a shame.

There is enough money to go around. They have the eternal cash cow (the fans). Everyone gets theirs. Players, Owners = Money. Fans = Screwed.

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I personally like Zito better than Willis - he has been a cy young winner also he's established - and has a habit of throwing lights out ball in sept and oct. Willis is good but Zito is better. JMO.

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Never read that book.

I just kind of rounded the years. But it is amazing when you think back. The players that left the game for a few seasons to fight in WWII. Just amazing.

A lot of those guys are rolling over in there graves. What they fought for both here and on foreign soil. They fought so hard to build this. Then when you think of how the owners and players can't work through it. It is a shame.

There is enough money to go around. They have the eternal cash cow (the fans). Everyone gets theirs. Players, Owners = Money. Fans = Screwed.

The book covers that. The problem is, the players were treated worse than indentured slaves for such a long period. They were captive employees with little recourse.

When things finally did turn, they made sure they made up for lost time. Marvin Miller was so hard line and would not give an inch ever. Donald Fehr still lives in Miller's shadows, and is afraid to give back anything.

Owners and players and union are all to blame. They created a perfect mess and one of distrust.

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Bob that is not a fair statement. JBF says a lot of stuff. A lot of crazy stuff. But when he is outlandish he is joking. He knows the game. Jermaine is just ignorant when it comes to baseball.

Fair enough. Jermy is an ignorant tool. JBF is a regular tool.

I stand corrected.

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WHO THE HELL SAID THAT ME AND CARLOS DELGADO HATE THIS COUNTRY?!?!?

THIS IS THE GOD-DAMN PROBLEM WITH YOU OLD WHITE GUYS...

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DOES NOT WANT TO BE FORCED TO SIT THROUGH SOME CHEESY ASS "MANDATORY TRIBUTE TO AMERICA" DOES NOT MEAN THEY HATE THIS COUNTRY...

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I DID AFTER SEPTEMBER 11? I VOLUNTEERED FOR 3 WEEKS AT RED CROSS AT A TRIAGE AND A MOVING POING 3 BLOCKS AWAY...

WHO THE HELL "HATES AMERICA"???

hahahaha you mad?

:Cuss:

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Delgado is a great player. But he's also a disrespectful punk.

His reasoning for not standing for "God Bless America" stemmed from his disagreement with the war in Iraq and the Navy using the Puerto Rican island of Vieques for target practice.But the song in itself doesn't have any political message of "self d!ck sucking". And the announcement in Yankee Stadium mentions only that it's in honor of the men and women serving this country overseas. This is a great country, and if Delgado cannot recognize that he should try to find work elsewhere. How awful to stand politely to honor some soldiers; what a terrible imposition on a millionaire like Delgado! How does he go to work every day?

Puerto Rico is part of the US. If Delgado and like-minded Puerto Ricans don't like that, then by all means, take the steps needed to make it a seperate country. Place is a total drain on the US Treasury anyway. If you don't want to be AMericans, notwithstanding all the great Puerto Rican men and women who have served America proudly, vaya con Dios and don't let the door hit you in the keister. But they won't do that; in fact all the referenda for independence get voted down by Puerto ricans themselves because without the American dollars ladled on them by Uncle Sam, the place is an economic mess.

Also, the Navy left the Viques range-along with all the business they gave to the locals. There's no point to having a naval base there if they cannot have the firing range. And immediately after the Navy left, Delgado and his ilk immediately whined about how the locals were now destitute. Well, then, Carlos-make up your freaking mind. Because if the US Navy doesn't use your bombing range, it's personnel don't need to be in Puerto Rico and spend their money there, either. That was you choice; deal with it like an adult and shut up.

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Oh and Jermaine, when you had to wintness Mets baseball, as I did when Joan Payson was the owner and she passed and her daughters inherited the team and had M Donald Grant doing their bidding, and their only worry was fielding a club as cheap as she could and auctioned off all the popular players, you should admire an owner whose primary goal is winning.

He has done some dumb things, he has done some bad things for the sport, but overall he wants to win. What more could a fan want?

agree,,, give me a dickhead george or trump to buy the Jets,,

hard boss, but demands perfection

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agree,,, give me a dickhead george or trump to buy the Jets,,

hard boss, but demands perfection

And usually ends up with winners.;)

Give me a Steinbrenner anytime over a hands off cheap guy like David Glass, or Carl Polard.

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THIS IS THE GOD-DAMN PROBLEM WITH YOU OLD WHITE GUYS...

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DOES NOT WANT TO BE FORCED TO SIT THROUGH SOME CHEESY ASS "MANDATORY TRIBUTE TO AMERICA" DOES NOT MEAN THEY HATE THIS COUNTRY...

jermaine, jermaine,, i am trying to give u some sage posting advice,,,u piss off more people than a thin herm hater at JI...

listen, i go to Carolina Hurricane Hockey games with a mixed set of people,, and the old black guys in the group stand up for National Anthem (and proudly i may add),,will u quit makin EVERYTHING a black/white issue at end of day,,please???????

u r becoming the Al Sharpton of JN, ,try mixing in a little Barack Obama

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jermaine, jermaine,, i am trying to give u some sage posting advice,,,u piss off more people than a thin herm hater at JI...

listen, i go to Carolina Hurricane Hockey games with a mixed set of people,, and the old black guys in the group stand up for National Anthem (and proudly i may add),,will u quit makin EVERYTHING a black/white issue at end of day,,please???????

u r becoming the Al Sharpton of JN, ,try mixing in a little Barack Obama

Good one.:cheers:

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Anyone see AROD win the game tonight with a clutch home run off Schilling?

When Wright had that year last year I didn't think he could top it. 24 errors, that is HOJO impressive. But with 6 errors already this season looks like he is determined to improve on his HOJO'ness.

Oh AROD made 10 less errors last season. And has a lifetime fielding percentage that puts Wright's to shame. Oh and AROD only has 2 errors this season.

We should create a vbookie event to see if Wright can keep his fielding percentage above .930. It will be close.

Damn. Was I just "schooled" again? How does that keep happening?

actually both of u are gettin goofy...

max is takin jermaines bait quicker than a hungry shark in a salmon farm pond

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Sad thing is, you are not far off from the truth there.

Ever read the book "Lords of the Realm"? I highly recommend it. It should be a primer for anyone understanding owner-player relations.

Scott;

He is almost right on the money. I would change around the years a bit, but that's nit-picking. The Eras are right though. Players now-a-days want the big bucks, and to be able to pass drug screenings, so they continue to have a chance for those big bucks. Winning is a very distant 3rd place.

Very distant.:confused:

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Never read that book.

I just kind of rounded the years. But it is amazing when you think back. The players that left the game for a few seasons to fight in WWII. Just amazing.

A lot of those guys are rolling over in there graves. What they fought for both here and on foreign soil. They fought so hard to build this. Then when you think of how the owners and players can't work through it. It is a shame.

There is enough money to go around. They have the eternal cash cow (the fans). Everyone gets theirs. Players, Owners = Money. Fans = Screwed.

Maxman;

Read that book. It is an eye-opener. You would not believe what was going on way back when.

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Actually, if you ignore his rantings and put-downs (95% of his posts) JBF does spew forth with some fairly knowledgeable stuff. He also has some interesting points that he throws out there from time-to-time.

It is unfortunate that it is difficult to find these posts, as his normal material is pure, unadulterated, wasted bandwidth.

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Actually, if you ignore his rantings and put-downs (95% of his posts) JBF does spew forth with some fairly knowledgeable stuff. He also has some interesting points that he throws out there from time-to-time.

It is unfortunate that it is difficult to find these posts, as his normal material is pure, unadulterated, wasted bandwidth.

JBF knows the game. He is one sick and twisted mofo though, lol.

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Doug Heffernan doesnt read books.

Hysterical. Wow. I laughed the 1st 800 times you made that joke. Time # 801....wow. Pure magic.

You the man SJ. You the man.

:rolleyes:

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actually both of u are gettin goofy...

max is takin jermaines bait quicker than a hungry shark in a salmon farm pond

Jermaine believes this stuff. When JBF does it, that is bait. Jermaine is just misinformed. Big difference.

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Jermaine...

The thread was closed for about 30 seconds. You are so stupid though it is beyond belief. I locked it just to try to put an end to your stupidity. Then I said if I have to suffer so should everyone else and I unlocked it.

You owned me? You owned Scott Dierking? Interesting. You do not have the ability to argue intelligently. How old are you? Seems like you are 14 or so. David Wright is better than AROD. Statememnts like that usually indicate a 14 year old brain.

You are a tool. JBF is a smart guy. He knows baseball. I know JBF. You are no JBF. Give it up already.

Maxipad... lets break down what happened in that thread, shall we?

I feel a lot of heat comin out that mouth, but there is honestly nothing to back it up.

1) you read my post, and then described a completely twisted, wrong interpretation of it, saying I walked out on the national anthem or something.

2) you accuse me of having "poor reading comprehension"

3) I point out to you that your whole post was based on a severely flawed reading of my original post.

4) you flip out and lock the post, threaten to ban me, etc etc...

you owned yourself there, buddy...

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Hysterical. Wow. I laughed the 1st 800 times you made that joke. Time # 801....wow. Pure magic.

You the man SJ. You the man.

:rolleyes:

uh oh, i guess that means no more doug jokes,, u see i forget i make them, after all i am Arthur Spooner

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jermaine, jermaine,, i am trying to give u some sage posting advice,,,u piss off more people than a thin herm hater at JI...

listen, i go to Carolina Hurricane Hockey games with a mixed set of people,, and the old black guys in the group stand up for National Anthem (and proudly i may add),,will u quit makin EVERYTHING a black/white issue at end of day,,please???????

u r becoming the Al Sharpton of JN, ,try mixing in a little Barack Obama

you dont understand SJ, I know you have a perceptive mind, but the problem really lies in an inflexibility to understand another human being's point of few.

as a young man who grew up in New York, you find that the only people who flip out over things like Delgado refusing to take part in the god bless america routine, are old white guys. This is 99% of the time true, and I think you understand that. The problem doesnt have to do with race though, it has to do with the fact that guys like this dont understand that you dont have to sit through a ridiculous, ornary, fake show of support to "love your country".

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you dont understand SJ, I know you have a perceptive mind, but the problem really lies in an inflexibility to understand another human being's point of few.

as a young man who grew up in New York, you find that the only people who flip out over things like Delgado refusing to take part in the god bless america routine, are old white guys. This is 99% of the time true, and I think you understand that. The problem doesnt have to do with race though, it has to do with the fact that guys like this dont understand that you dont have to sit through a ridiculous, ornary, fake show of support to "love your country".

You tend to overgeneralize people

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you dont understand SJ, I know you have a perceptive mind, but the problem really lies in an inflexibility to understand another human being's point of few.

as a young man who grew up in New York, you find that the only people who flip out over things like Delgado refusing to take part in the god bless america routine, are old white guys. This is 99% of the time true, and I think you understand that. The problem doesnt have to do with race though, it has to do with the fact that guys like this dont understand that you dont have to sit through a ridiculous, ornary, fake show of support to "love your country".

Jermaine, do you take your hat off during the National Anthem?

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you dont understand SJ, I know you have a perceptive mind, but the problem really lies in an inflexibility to understand another human being's point of few.

as a young man who grew up in New York, you find that the only people who flip out over things like Delgado refusing to take part in the god bless america routine, are old white guys. This is 99% of the time true, and I think you understand that. The problem doesnt have to do with race though, it has to do with the fact that guys like this dont understand that you dont have to sit through a ridiculous, ornary, fake show of support to "love your country".

again, better ways to put it by avoiding the race issue:

http://www.barackobama.com/main.php

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