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Switching to the 34 defense


Tinstar2

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Currently,the Jets have 16 Lbs not including camp invitees presently on the roster.These majority of the former players don't fit the profile of a linebacker that's required to play in the 34 defense.Included in these 16 are Trevor Johnson and Bryan Thomas,2 former DEs in the 43 defense.The vast majority of the new Players including the drafted players all fit the profile required to perform in this defense.

Coach Mangini has stated the best players will play,and this fan just has to wonder what the criteria will be for determining the best players.What happens if the best players don't fit the scheme the coach is installing.Do we just cut/Trade/release perfectly good players because they don't fit a certain scheme.

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I think you gotta keep the young lb's that don't fit and give them a year, and be more willing to drop or trade the older lb's that wouldn't fit (i.e. bryan thomas)

No need to keep the dead weight or those young ones that just don't pan out

Bryan Thomas fits alot better than most.He's stout at the POA and he can rush the passer or play the run.Right now,he and Trevor Johnson if he's healthey are 2 of the better players on the jets because they can play as edge rushers in either scheme.

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Haven't they said numerous times that it will be a mixed bag of 4/3 and 3/4...only because of a lack of bodies to completely switch exclusively to the 3/4.

The thing is if you look at the players they brought in,they have more than enough 34 type players if they can actually play.The 2 Players that trouble me the most with this switch are John Vilma and Darrell McClover.

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The thing is if you look at the players they brought in,they have more than enough 34 type players if they can actually play.The 2 Players that trouble me the most with this switch are John Vilma and Darrell McClover.

Vilma is a football player plain and simple, he will be fine in whatever scheme you put him in. As someone said a ways back, things will be very good if Vilma becomes one of our main concerns.

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I'm on record stating that I expect this team to win in 2006.My biggest enjoyment is going to be watching how this all shakes out.John Vilma is not even as big as Ray Lewis,a player who's crying about having to take on OL while watching his body being worn out and his career moving away from it's once glorius status.

How come it's fine for Mangini to take a 43 defensive team and switch it to a 34 without having the players to do it supposedly,but it was a horrendous mistake for Herman edwards to take a 34 defensive team and switch it to the cover who.

How come a nitwit can do this ,make the playoffs but the Genius is to have 2-3 seasons to build.

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I'm on record stating that I expect this team to win in 2006.My biggest enjoyment is going to be watching how this all shakes out.John Vilma is not even as big as Ray Lewis,a player who's crying about having to take on OL while watching his body being worn out and his career moving away from it's once glorius status.

How come it's fine for Mangini to take a 43 defensive team and switch it to a 34 without having the players to do it supposedly,but it was a horrendous mistake for Herman edwards to take a 34 defensive team and switch it to the cover who.

How come a nitwit can do this ,make the playoffs but the Genius is to have 2-3 seasons to build.

Tin, I knew there was some underlying objective to this all...you're going into the valley of death...as George Armstrong Custer said to his troops before entering the Little Big Horn..."What Indians? Oh, you mean those Indians..."

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I was gone for 3 days and i come back to all this Herman Edwards hate fest.

I just wanted to throw something outthere to see what sticks.

I prefer to talk about the Jets,but it seems everyone is so fascinated with what Herm's doing or what the Chiefs will do,I decided if you can't beat em join em so to speak.

In a way,it's still about the Jets,because this switch to the 34 without Abe is troubling me bigtime.

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I was gone for 3 days and i come back to all this Herman Edwards hate fest.

I just wanted to throw something outthere to see what sticks.

I prefer to talk about the Jets,but it seems everyone is so fascinated with what Herm's doing or what the Chiefs will do,I decided if you can't beat em join em so to speak.

In a way,it's still about the Jets,because this switch to the 34 without Abe is troubling me bigtime.

Alright. One at a time. You notice that No 3-4 teams went after John Abraham. It was Seattle, Denver and Atlanta. John is a better 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB. In The 3-4, The OLB's have to be strong at the point of attack. While Abe is a good stand up rusher, He's above average against the run, better at chasing than using power to stop the run. You are wasting John if you use him in coverage at linebacker. Plus with the wear and tear that 3-4 OLB's go through, John's going to get hurt.

Next up is The why is Mangini going to a 3-4. First off, He's not going to The 3-4 100 percent of the time. It will be the base defense but The Jets are going to play alot of different fronts. He's going to be looking for players who are flexible enough to play in everything. That will take time to put together a roster where everybody can do everything. A team that has players who can do everything wins superbowls.

It's much easier to build a contender than it is to build a champion. That's why I think it's going to take time with The Jets. They are trying to build a championship model.

Lastly, On to Herman Edwards. I thought he did an ok job while he was here. He was a good leader which is very important when you are the head coach. Getting everybody on the same page and getting everyone to work together and to believe in you. Herm has those qualities. As a leader, He's very good. As a game planner. He was mediocre at best. The more realistic term would be below average. Edwards was hands off, let his coaches coach and took a step back. I have nothing personal against the man. I have no hate towards him. His run here was over. It was time for him to move on and time for us to move on. End of story.

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Alright. One at a time. You notice that No 3-4 teams went after John Abraham. It was Seattle, Denver and Atlanta. John is a better 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB. In The 3-4, The OLB's have to be strong at the point of attack. While Abe is a good stand up rusher, He's above average against the run, better at chasing than using power to stop the run. You are wasting John if you use him in coverage at linebacker. Plus with the wear and tear that 3-4 OLB's go through, John's going to get hurt.

Next up is The why is Mangini going to a 3-4. First off, He's not going to The 3-4 100 percent of the time. It will be the base defense but The Jets are going to play alot of different fronts. He's going to be looking for players who are flexible enough to play in everything. That will take time to put together a roster where everybody can do everything. A team that has players who can do everything wins superbowls.

It's much easier to build a contender than it is to build a champion. That's why I think it's going to take time with The Jets. They are trying to build a championship model.

Lastly, On to Herman Edwards. I thought he did an ok job while he was here. He was a good leader which is very important when you are the head coach. Getting everybody on the same page and getting everyone to work together and to believe in you. Herm has those qualities. As a leader, He's very good. As a game planner. He was mediocre at best. The more realistic term would be below average. Edwards was hands off, let his coaches coach and took a step back. I have nothing personal against the man. I have no hate towards him. His run here was over. It was time for him to move on and time for us to move on. End of story.

This i can respect because it praises and critiques all in the same vein.Hell,i can even respect Savage's aproach because he comes at it from a different perspective.He believes Herm didn't earn the Job,and as a further insult,he watched as a player he thought was a better option left due to lack of promised playing time while the "stat monkey" got all the carries and the glory.

I have issues with blatant criticism without giving the man credit for his accomplishments.

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This i can respect because it praises and critiques all in the same vein.Hell,i can even respect Savage's aproach because he comes at it from a different perspective.He believes Herm didn't earn the Job,and as a further insult,he watched as a player he thought was a better option left due to lack of promised playing time while the "stat monkey" got all the carries and the glory.

I have issues with blatant criticism without giving the man credit for his accomplishments.

Here's why I can't stand this man & diminish the "accomplishments" the Jets had in his tenure here. Even "successful" seasons with good teams were littered with inexcusable losses where we were not outplayed, but just outcoached. Like the "miracle" 9-7 season in 2002 we blew a comfortable lead vs KC, blew a 21-3 lead vs the friggin' Browns, and then with a playoff spot on the line his team came out flat vs the 3-10 Bears. Even still, to his supporters, Edwards is only seen as the man responsible for getting us out of a mess & not the one who got us in it in the first place. Teams who don't dig holes for themselves don't have to dig out of one. Though the one time Herm's team did NOT dig themselves into a hole in the first 4-5 games (2004) they fell into one late in the season, losing 3 of their last 4.

Or for my long version of "the good years" click here: http://www.jetnation.com/?p=367

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where the hell ya been the past 5 years...:P

I was gone for 3 days and i come back to all this Herman Edwards hate fest.

I just wanted to throw something outthere to see what sticks.

I prefer to talk about the Jets,but it seems everyone is so fascinated with what Herm's doing or what the Chiefs will do,I decided if you can't beat em join em so to speak.

In a way,it's still about the Jets,because this switch to the 34 without Abe is troubling me bigtime.

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This i can respect because it praises and critiques all in the same vein.Hell,i can even respect Savage's aproach because he comes at it from a different perspective.He believes Herm didn't earn the Job,and as a further insult,he watched as a player he thought was a better option left due to lack of promised playing time while the "stat monkey" got all the carries and the glory.

I have issues with blatant criticism without giving the man credit for his accomplishments.

Tinny your one of the few posters that gave Hackett credit for anything! While I didn't like Hackett how can people give Hermie credit and bypass Hackett?? Hackett was the OC that ensured Martin getting the "Stats" to someday get in the HOF! As a Jet under Tuna and Groh Martin avg 7 rushing TD's a year and 3.76 ypc..Hardly worth that big contract and giving up picks for! Hell Murrell on 2 Kotite Teams and 1 Tuna Team as a starter avg 3.9 a carry and over 4 td's a year! God the Martinette's hate facts like that!!:eek:

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I'm on record stating that I expect this team to win in 2006.My biggest enjoyment is going to be watching how this all shakes out.John Vilma is not even as big as Ray Lewis,a player who's crying about having to take on OL while watching his body being worn out and his career moving away from it's once glorius status.

How come it's fine for Mangini to take a 43 defensive team and switch it to a 34 without having the players to do it supposedly,but it was a horrendous mistake for Herman edwards to take a 34 defensive team and switch it to the cover who.

How come a nitwit can do this ,make the playoffs but the Genius is to have 2-3 seasons to build.

Mangini is not dumb enough to come in and make a complete change to the 3-4 without the proper personnel. The 4-3 will remain the Jets core base defense with the 3-4 being used in certain situations.

You make a good point about Ray Lewis. The key for Vilma will be how he handles big OLinemen on virtually every play.

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Mangini is not dumb enough to come in and make a complete change to the 3-4 without the proper personnel. The 4-3 will remain the Jets core base defense with the 3-4 being used in certain situations.

You make a good point about Ray Lewis. The key for Vilma will be how he handles big OLinemen on virtually every play.

Coach edits Jet playbook email_top.gif print_top.gif

Monday, May 15, 2006

By RANDY LANGE

STAFF WRITER

HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. -- You know Jets coach Eric Mangini's line that his base defense won't be a 3-4 front or a 4-3, but will be whatever helps the Jets beat a particular opponent? Blake Costanzo says it's true.

"There is no base defense," said Costanzo, the Lafayette linebacker and Ramapo grad who competed over the weekend at the Jets' rookie minicamp. "We've got such a big playbook and so many ways we can attack an offense."

rotten_300x250.gif

And that extends to his position. Even though his size (6 feet 1, 235 pounds) might make him better-suited to play inside in a Mangini/Patriots-style 3-4, Costanzo said he had no feel for whether he'll be strong side or weak side, inside or outside come training camp.

"We're learning all the linebacker positions," he said. "We're learning everything."

The unknowns might make it hard on an undrafted free agent trying to carve out a home for himself on an NFL roster, but Costanzo seems to be enjoying it.

During the limited media availability at Friday's late practice, Costanzo was admonished by Mangini during a stepping drill -- "Stay off the bags!" the head coach said.

But on Saturday, Costanzo made a nifty play during modified kickoff-return coverage, "blowing up" the play as special teams coach Mike Westhoff observed. And Westhoff is believed to be intrigued by Costanzo's possibilities as a specialist.

"I'm just so grateful to be here. I'll do anything I can," Costanzo said. "If they ask me to play center, I'll play center."

He'll even consider missing his Lafayette graduation on Saturday -- he's getting his degree in sociology -- if the coaches advise him to be at the complex working out in advance of the mid-June full-squad minicamp. But they'll probably let him go get his sheepskin. Then he can return and turn his full attention to the pigskin.

NAME GAME: Here's a name to remember among the Jets' undrafted free agents: Tuiaualuma Alailefaleula. Call him "Tui" for short. His Samoan name, of 23 letters and 15 syllables, is as big as his frame of 6-4, 350. He was a University of Washington backup two-way lineman who's been working on the defensive line in this camp.

CHIPPY PLAYER: Running back Cedric Houston broke his right wrist in a car accident last month and is wearing a hard plastic protector around the injury. But it's not a season-ending, Hideki Matsui-type break -- Houston chipped only a bone and expects to be able to participate in the veteran minicamp.

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The Jets have signed and drafted a number of interchangeable players - that is the mantra of Mangini and staff- flexibility to substitute and change players depending on the situation

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How come it's fine for Mangini to take a 43 defensive team and switch it to a 34 without having the players to do it supposedly,but it was a horrendous mistake for Herman edwards to take a 34 defensive team and switch it to the cover who.

How come a nitwit can do this ,make the playoffs but the Genius is to have 2-3 seasons to build.

The D that Herm came in and "refaced" was already a very solid D with all the right parts in place. Ellis was a solid 3-4DE, Abe was a budding OLB with a ton of speed to get to the QB and the ability to roam. Lewis and Jones were not quite done yet, and the DB's were also quite good.

Herm came in and blew that solid D up, only to line Abe as an undersized DE who was continually beaten up having to take on the OT and TE's directly, rather than use his speed. Ellis, one of the top 3-4DE's in the league, was told to add 30 lbs and plugged in at DT. A terribly failed experiment. Lewis and Jones, who were never speed demons and were getting old, were required to cover more territory since there were now only 3 LB's instead of 4. Herm took a very goode D wiyth the proper pieces to execute that style in place and blew it up in favor of a D that didn't come close to suiting the players strengths.

Mangini has not completely commited to the 3-4, but rather will switch around leaving both options open to do what's best. But the truth is our D was never that good under Herm. Their best season was 2 years ago, and even then they weren't dominant. DRob has been pedestrian as a DT, other than Vilma the LB's have been pedestrian, Abe is gone, and overall the D is not nearly as good as what Herm inherited. If we already had a stout 4-3 D in place I guarantee that Mangini wouldn't touch it.

You state that Vilma may struggle in the 3-4, which I agree. But keep in mind Vilma is smaller than Ray Lewis TODAY, but he is the exact same size Lewis was at his age. Lewis was successful ibn the 3-4 playing at Vilma's size, so it's not out of the realm that Vilma can still be dominant. McLover has yet to play one game at LB. Who cares whether a 3-4 or 4-3 fits him? He's a non factor to the team. Deciding how tro field a D on his credentials is as dumb as using Pouha's credentials to field a team. Chances are McClover won't even be on the team come regular season, and if he is it will probably be for SpT's only.

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