Met vs Yanks TONIGHT

[Green Jets & Ham]

Game over sport.

Let the Mo is done threads begin.

BIG DEAL, you beat a Yankee team that is absolutely depleted with injuries ... Guess what, you're supposed too ... right now this team is a shell of itself, but congrats on winning the World Series {or at least that's how the Mets react everytime they win a lousy regular season game verses the Yankees, which they haven't done very often, which probably explains their excitement}

[Blackout]

if we had lost with Sheff and Matsui, i'd be devistated

right now, im disapointed, but its just not the same knowing that half our team is on the DL

[Shadetree]

BIG DEAL, you beat a Yankee team that is absolutely depleted with injuries ... Guess what, you're supposed too ... right now this team is a shell of itself, but congrats on winning the World Series {or at least that's how the Mets react everytime they win a lousy regular season game verses the Yankees, which they haven't done very often, which probably explains their excitement}

Sour grapes right there.

Good game...good win..nothing more...nothing less.

[ThunderbirdJet]

David Wright.... Yankee owner.

[nj meadowlands]

Tonight's thoughts

1. **** Randy Johnson

2. National League umpires blow. Terrible.

3. **** Randy Johnson

4. **** Randy Johnson for bouncing Posada from the game. The "back spasm" thing is a lie. Posada would NEVER have called for that pitch against David Wrong.

5. **** Randy Johnson

[Blackout]

meanwhile, kris benson pitches a complete game for baltimore.

[ThunderbirdJet]

Thoughts on tonight's game..... another 200 vcash.

[GimmeShelter]

BIG DEAL, you beat a Yankee team that is absolutely depleted with injuries ... Guess what, you're supposed too ... right now this team is a shell of itself, but congrats on winning the World Series {or at least that's how the Mets react everytime they win a lousy regular season game verses the Yankees, which they haven't done very often, which probably explains their excitement}

Ham, take a pill.

My post was a response to Benson somehow being brought into this thread.

And guess what? You're supposed to win with the Unit vs Gonzalez.

It's all in fun Ham.

[GimmeShelter]

meanwhile, kris benson pitches a complete game for baltimore.

When the Mets beat the Nats it's no big deal. For Benson it is?

[Blackout]

When the Mets beat the Nats it's no big deal. For Benson it is?

no, i just feel like rubbing in the bensen trade because with my team losing tonight i obviously have nothing else to comeback with.

[GimmeShelter]

no, i just feel like rubbing in the kazmir trade because with my team losing tonight i obviously have nothing else to comeback with.

I hear ya. Exit Sandman?

Good game Blackout.....Tomorrow should be even better.

[Blackout]

did anyone notice Wagner this week has had 9 K's in 3 innings?

ive never seen a closer shut out the side in 3 straight appearances until now

[Green Jets & Ham]

Ham, take a pill.

My post was a response to Benson somehow being brought into this thread.

And guess what? You're supposed to win with the Unit vs Gonzalez.

EXACTLY, that's why I hate that big, ugly, filthy, greasy haired lookin scumbag!!!!!!

But seriously, congrats on the win tonite ... I'm just pissed off that the team is decimated and this big waste of life can't pick them up for one f**kin start ... not only this one, but any f**kin start ... right now the team needs him more than ever, and the big hasbeen is MIA

[Green Jets & Ham]

Tonight's thoughts

1. **** Randy Johnson

2. National League umpires blow. Terrible.

3. **** Randy Johnson

4. **** Randy Johnson for bouncing Posada from the game. The "back spasm" thing is a lie. Posada would NEVER have called for that pitch against David Wrong.

5. **** Randy Johnson

I hear you .. I have grown to really hate this f**kin scumbag .. right now this team is so friggin banged up and they need him more than ever, but he's just an absolute NO SHOW .. Just a Gutless, washed up POS

[Jet/BosoxFan]

I hear you .. I have grown to really hate this f**kin scumbag .. right now this team is so friggin banged up and they need him more than ever, but he's just an absolute NO SHOW .. Just a Gutless, washed up POS

I think you may be half-a-retard. On a good day. You do realize that Al Leiter couldnt carry Randy Johnson's jockstrap, right?

Randy is a first ballot HOFer, whether he pitches ever again or not!

Al Leiter, your binky isnt even on Randy's radar screen. What did he pitch 6 strong innings against Boston last year and you gave him verbal fellatio all winter long. Al Leiter sucks man!

Randy beat us like 5 times last year...and youre calling him a scumbag? Why because fat steinbrenner had his buttboy Cashman throw way too much money at this old codger? WTF would you do if some old fool throws millions of dollars at you when youre clearly finished doing whatever you do?

You should be directing your anger at fat george and Cashman...and not the Big Eunich.

[Green Jets & Ham]

I think you may be half-a-retard. On a good day. You do realize that Al Leiter couldnt carry Randy Johnson's jockstrap, right?

Randy is a first ballot HOFer, whether he pitches ever again or not!

Al Leiter, your binky isnt even on Randy's radar screen. What did he pitch 6 strong innings against Boston last year and you gave him verbal fellatio all winter long. Al Leiter sucks man!

Randy beat us like 5 times last year...and youre calling him a scumbag? Why because fat steinbrenner had his buttboy Cashman throw way too much money at this old codger? WTF would you do if some old fool throws millions of dollars at you when youre clearly finished doing whatever you do?

You should be directing your anger at fat george and Cashman...and not the Big Eunich.

You know what, Uncle Al never had Randy Johnson's talent, but he had more heart in his pinky finger than this front-runner has in his entire body ... Randy Johnson is a classic front-runner who once had GREAT STUFF and was able to dominate with his ability, but once he lost the ability to dominate he looks like he wants to cry out on the mound, blames Posada and everyone but himself, instead of trying to adapt to the loss of his stuff and find another way to win

I Gotta hand it to Pedro too, he does not have the stuff that made him so dominant early in his career either, but instead of sulking about it he figured out another way to attack hitters and win ... ditto David Cone when he got older, or any number of All-Time Greats, Clemens as well ... but Randy Johnson hasn't even tried to make an adjustment to the loss of his stuff, he just keeps trying to pitch like he's still Randy Johnson, BUT HE'S NOT, so like a classic front-runner he looks totally lost out on that mound, butt naked without his dominant stuff, and he's gettin spanked

[Jet/BosoxFan]

You know what, Uncle Al never had Randy Johnson's talent, but he had more heart in his pinky finger than this front-runner has in his entire body ... Randy Johnson is a classic front-runner who once had GREAT STUFF and was able to dominate with his ability, but once he lost the ability to dominate he looks like he wants to cry out on the mound, blames Posada and everyone but himself, instead of trying to adapt to the loss of his stuff and find another way to win

I Gotta hand it to Pedro too, he does not have the stuff that made him so dominant early in his career either, but instead of sulking about it he figured out another way to attack hitters and win ... ditto David Cone when he got older, or any number of All-Time Greats, Clemens as well ... but Randy Johnson hasn't even tried to make an adjustment to the loss of his stuff, he just keeps trying to pitch like he's still Randy Johnson, BUT HE'S NOT, so like a classic front-runner he looks totally lost out on that mound, butt naked without his dominant stuff

He's forty-f*cking-three! This grandpa has no business pitching in the league anymore! And yes, I agree, he hasnt even tried to adjust to his diminished fastball velocity and actually learn how to pitch...but why do you refuse to blame the real culprit for the state on the Tankees?

and that is fat george not Randy Johnson!

Youre not competitive because youre not building anything at the farm level. You've become addicted to bringing in established veteran (read: over-the-hill) perrenial allstars and p*ssing away all your prospects/young talent to do it.

You cant help your gluttonous selves! It was disgusting, now its pathetic. And I dont wanna hear the names Hughes and Duncan. Big deal, every team has at least a Hughes and Duncan to dispose of! Wang? Please! Melky? COME ON NOW! Cano, he's good...but not enough to get a frontline pitcher.

And IF (!!!) Mariano is no longer dominant, you might as well mail in the rest of the season.

[Cmart28Coles87]

He's forty-f*cking-three! This grandpa has no business pitching in the league anymore! And yes, I agree, he hasnt even tried to adjust to his diminished fastball velocity and actually learn how to pitch...but why do you refuse to blame the real culprit for the state on the Tankees?

and that is fat george not Randy Johnson!

Youre not competitive because youre not building anything at the farm level. You've become addicted to bringing in established veteran (read: over-the-hill) perrenial allstars and p*ssing away all your prospects/young talent to do it.

You cant help your gluttonous selves! It was disgusting, now its pathetic. And I dont wanna hear the names Hughes and Duncan. Big deal, every team has at least a Hughes and Duncan to dispose of! Wang? Please! Melky? COME ON NOW! Cano, he's good...but not enough to get a frontline pitcher.

And IF (!!!) Mariano is no longer dominant, you might as well mail in the rest of the season.

Your gonna tell us were not successful? Thats why we have ran that division like the mob for the past 8 years while owning the blowsox at the same time.

[Blackout]

Wagner case

not closed

Hints at a Willie mistake

It's no surprise Willie Randolph gives Billy Wagner the hook but closer says he was caught off guard by getting call in 4-0 game.

In the losing clubhouse, Billy Wagner was taking the blame in stand-up fashion for his unfathomable meltdown. If he said he (stunk) once, he must have said it a dozen times.

If he had left it at that, the Mets could move on quickly from yesterday's disaster, painful as it may be.

However, Wagner indirectly put Willie Randolph in the line of fire, indicating that he didn't expect to be pitching in the ninth inning with a 4-0 lead against the Yankees.

Twice Wagner said "no comment" when asked if he was surprised to be called upon there in a nonsave situation. That was an indictment of Randolph's strategy in itself, but then, when asked a third time, he revealed a bit more of his feelings.

"A little bit," he said. "Still, that's no reason for the way I pitched. I should have been ready."

Uh-oh. Disclaimer or no disclaimer, Randolph is likely to read that as being second-guessed by his closer. Suffice to say he won't appreciate it.

And so the Mets have a bit of controversy on their hands, as a chaser to the 11-inning, 5-4 loss to the Yankees that may be the most gut-wrenching defeat in Randolph's two seasons as manager.

Oh, the humanity. All afternoon it was looking like the most glorious of days for the Mets and their fans. They weren't just beating the injury-weakened Yankees as much as they seemed to be pushing them off the mountaintop and staking their claim as new kings of the city.

Pedro Martinez had made it look easy, outpitching Mike Mussina. When Duaner Sanchez followed up Pedro's dominant seven innings with an easy eighth, surely even the Yankees had to know they were beaten.

Then Randolph summoned Wagner and all hell broke loose. Some 18 hours after he blew away the Yankees on Friday night, overmatching them as he struck out the side on 12 pitches, Wagner looked like some Wild Thing rookie rather than an accomplished closer.

As the walls closed in, after a couple of singles sandwiched around a walk, he couldn't throw the ball anywhere near the plate. In a meltdown to top just about anything in the seemingly haunted history of Met closers, from John Franco to Armando Benitez to Braden Looper, Wagner walked two more hitters, then hit Bernie Williams with a pitch before Randolph put him out of his misery by yanking him.

Ultimately the move proved to be too late for the Mets, so let the autopsy begin:

Above all, if Wagner came unglued because he wasn't mentally prepared to pitch, you can't blame Randolph for that. Indeed, the easy argument is that for the $40 million the Mets are paying him, Wagner ought to be able to get three outs on Christmas morning if they ask him to.

On the other hand, let's be real: this save-situation mentality by which closers seem to operate has become a fact of life over the last couple of decades, as created and perpetrated by managers everywhere.

In Wagner's case, especially, the lefthander is a former defensive back who brings a football mentality to his current job, and treats save situations as though they are a receiver coming over the middle. He has made it clear that he relies on adrenaline to be at his best. He admitted yesterday it's harder to generate that feeling with a four-run lead.

"It shouldn't be that way, with 56,000 people in the stands," he said. "But, yeah, it is. Still, I felt good. It's no excuse."

It sounds like an excuse, of course. But none other than Mariano Rivera said he could understand Wagner's dilemma.

"As a closer," he said, "sometimes you're not into the game mentally with a 4-0 lead."

Randolph did have a viable alternative in Sanchez, who didn't pitch on Friday night and threw only 10 pitches in the eighth inning yesterday. However, the manager didn't see why it was even an issue when asked about it afterward.

"It's not a big deal," he said of using Wagner in a nonsave situation. "He only threw 12 pitches (Friday), and the fact is, he hasn't thrown a lot lately. You want to get your closer chances to get in a rhythm."

If Randolph is at fault for anything, maybe it's not considering Wagner's full-throttle mentality. In short, the guy is an adrenaline junkie. If he has a harder time pumping himself up in nonsave situations, like it or not, Randolph has to factor it into his decision-making.

As it was, Wagner didn't seem to have any other explanation for his ineptitude.

"You can't explain it, so why worry about it?" he said. "It (stinks) because we should have won that game, hands down, and I blew it. But it's just one of those things. You just pack your lunch tomorrow and go back to work."

Considering the circumstances, the Mets shouldn't dismiss it quite so easily. At the very least, it sounds as if the manager and closer need to talk about it.

Originally published on May 21, 2006