"Around the Horn"-Buy or Sell

[nj meadowlands]

All you're doing is throwing together a bunch of football words in poorly thought out paragraphs that don't make any sense. I'll end this discussion- Will Allen sucks.

[feelthepain]

All you're doing is throwing together a bunch of football words in poorly thought out paragraphs that don't make any sense. I'll end this discussion- Will Allen sucks.

Spoken like a true homer.

[124]

Fact is, we've seen Will Allen every week for the past 4 seasons, we know what he can and cannot do. Ask the majority of Giants fans, he's not a number one corner, he's a number two, and you don't have a number one. He's an inconsistent number two at that. He'll have one season where he'll play well for most games, get some picks. Then the next he'll have maybe a game or two where he actually shows up and does basically nothing. Miami views him as their #1, and maybe even future #1 and he isn't anything more then a #2. Allen can tackle, yes. Cover? his coverage skills are lacking. He'd be better suited as a safety that stops the run and comes after the Quarterback.

[RSJ]

Lets get back into the reason for this thread, shall we?

Sell. Not in the 3-4 and without a true NT, I just don't see him topping 80 or 90....if he does there will be more downfield then usual.

Buy or Sell?: David Barrett will begin the year as a back-up Cornerback to either Andre Dyson or Justin MillerTime.

Sell - I actually am one of the few that like Barrett. I also think Miller would make a great FS.

Buy or Sell? D Rob being effective this year.

[Bugg]

Will Allen was outmuscled twice in one game by Sideline Santana. Not sure Santana ever fought a DB for a ball once before that day. It's like being knocked out by Glass Joe in Punchout, or having France beat you in a war.Pussydom, thery name is Will Allen.

[StillerPaul]

Will Allen was outmuscled twice in one game by Sideline Santana. Not sure Santana ever fought a DB for a ball once before that day. It's like being knocked out by Glass Joe in Punchout, or having France beat you in a war.Pussydom, thery name is Will Allen.

LOL Thats good stuff.

These Miami fans will get a real hearty dose of reality come september.

[StillerPaul]

Oh yea, buy or sell. Charlie Frye has a decent year as first year starter.

[PFSIKH]

Oh yea, buy or sell. Charlie Frye has a decent year as first year starter.

Buy. There is alot of potential on offense and if the injured players come back and realize their potential, this could be a real good offense. Second best in the division (assuming a healthy Carlson Palmer plays) behind Cincy.

Buy or Sell Herm Edwards taking the Chiefs further then he ever got the Jets?

[StillerPaul]

Buy. There is alot of potential on offense and if the injured players come back and realize their potential, this could be a real good offense. Second best in the division (assuming a healthy Carlson Palmer plays) behind Cincy.

Buy or Sell Herm Edwards taking the Chiefs further then he ever got the Jets?

Sell. I think the Chiefs won't finish any better than 10-6 again. The AFC is too strong. Their window has passed.

[StillerPaul]

Crap. B or S; Philip Rivers putting up similar numbers to Drew Brees.

[feelthepain]

Fact is, we've seen Will Allen every week for the past 4 seasons, we know what he can and cannot do. Ask the majority of Giants fans, he's not a number one corner, he's a number two, and you don't have a number one. He's an inconsistent number two at that. He'll have one season where he'll play well for most games, get some picks. Then the next he'll have maybe a game or two where he actually shows up and does basically nothing. Miami views him as their #1, and maybe even future #1 and he isn't anything more then a #2. Allen can tackle, yes. Cover? his coverage skills are lacking. He'd be better suited as a safety that stops the run and comes after the Quarterback.

Fact is his #'s are as good as any #1 CB in the league, you don't have to like or agree with it. Facts are facts. You can't tell me I'm arguing my opinion against your opinion or anybody elses. My side of the argument involves facts and the Jet fans side involves opinion. It plain and simple your opinon is Allen sucks and my facts prove you wrong. What I see is a CB with solid #'s and you can't get around that no matter how you try, you can't sugar coat it and you can't deny it.

The funny part is because he's now a Dolphin you can ignore all that the guy has done because Giant fans say so??? I still haven't seen one Jet fan come up with a legit argument to explain why, Madison and McCalister both have the same kind of #'s as Allen and Allen even has some better #'s then the other two, but Allen sucks and the other two don't. The answer is simple, Allen is a Dolphin, Saban doesn't think the guy sucks, or he wouldn't be a Dolphin, but you Jet fans know more then everyone else so you don't need facts when you want to be right about a player. Apparently Jet fans opinions trump all fact.

[Bugg]

"The funny part is because he's now a Dolphin you can ignore all that the guy has done because Giant fans say so??? "

Quite the opposite. In the NYC market, you don't have much choice but to watch the Jints some weekends. So we know how awful Allen is.

[feelthepain]

"The funny part is because he's now a Dolphin you can ignore all that the guy has done because Giant fans say so??? "

Quite the opposite. In the NYC market, you don't have much choice but to watch the Jints some weekends. So we know how awful Allen is.

Bottom line he has the stats to prove he doesn't suck! Jet and Giant fans have nothing but opinion. When it comes down to it, players make the HOF based on stats not opinion. So the NFL recognizes fact (stats) not fiction (opinion).

[ThunderbirdJet]

Bottom line he has the stats to prove he doesn't suck! Jet and Giant fans have nothing but opinion. When it comes down to it, players make the HOF based on stats not opinion. So the NFL recognizes fact (stats) not fiction (opinion).

The thing you don't understand here is that opposing offenses always go after the weakness of the defense. That is why so many rookie CB's put up big numbers.... teams throw and run at them. There are a few true #1 CB's who put up numbers regardless, like Champ Bailey and Winfield, but Allen is NOWHERE near that kind of a player. He's around the ball because he is a weak spot that the opposing offense goes after.... because he isn't very good. Be patient.... you'll find out soon enough.

[nj meadowlands]

Bottom line he has the stats to prove he doesn't suck! Jet and Giant fans have nothing but opinion. When it comes down to it, players make the HOF based on stats not opinion. So the NFL recognizes fact (stats) not fiction (opinion).

Oh. So now Will Allen is a Hall of Famer. Put your crackpipe down. Are you 13?

[StraightCash]

Bottom line he has the stats to prove he doesn't suck! Jet and Giant fans have nothing but opinion. When it comes down to it, players make the HOF based on stats not opinion. So the NFL recognizes fact (stats) not fiction (opinion).

Wasn't Will Allen that batch that got trucked by Santana Moss? Haha, looks like we might have a passing game in atleast 2 of our contests this season. Thanks Miami.

[feelthepain]

Oh. So now Will Allen is a Hall of Famer. Put your crackpipe down. Are you 13?

Well since you're 4 and can't read yet, let me explain in baby talk. I never said Allen was a HOFer what I said was the NFL only recognizes stats...not opinion. So when they choose a HOFer thats how they make their choices as to is in the HOF and who's not!! It's decided by stats: (what I have to prove Allen doesn't suck, used by the NFL to determine a HOFer) and not opinion: ( what you have to offer as an argument as why you think Allen sucks, and is not a method used by any pro sports organization to determine a players ability) I can't break it down any eaiser then that so if you are so lacking in basic human knowledge that you can't see the difference between FACT and OPINION then you have issues that go beyond commons sense. So you keep your opinions and I'll keep my facts. One of us will live in the realworld (me) and the other can go play nice with their imaginary friends...(you).

[Jetman67]

Well since you're 4 and can't read yet, let me explain in baby talk. I never said Allen was a HOFer what I said was the NFL only recognizes stats...not opinion. So when they choose a HOFer thats how they make their choices as to is in the HOF and who's not!! It's decided by stats: (what I have to prove Allen doesn't suck, used by the NFL to determine a HOFer) and not opinion: ( what you have to offer as an argument as why you think Allen sucks, and is not a method used by any pro sports organization to determine a players ability) I can't break it down any eaiser then that so if you are so lacking in basic human knowledge that you can't see the difference between FACT and OPINION then you have issues that go beyond commons sense. So you keep your opinions and I'll keep my facts. One of us will live in the realworld (me) and the other can go play nice with their imaginary friends...(you).

Dude, all Ive seen in your posts are insults to anyone who doesnt agree with you. You claim to have more football knowledge than anyone here. Why dont you just go send your f*cking resume to the NFL then and stop acting like such and A-HOLE!!!!

[RSJ]

Crap. B or S; Philip Rivers putting up similar numbers to Drew Brees.

Buy - As a matter of fact I think he will put up better numbers than Brees.

Buy or Sell? Jets adding a vet running back via trade before the season begins.

[feelthepain]

The thing you don't understand here is that opposing offenses always go after the weakness of the defense. That is why so many rookie CB's put up big numbers.... teams throw and run at them. There are a few true #1 CB's who put up numbers regardless, like Champ Bailey and Winfield, but Allen is NOWHERE near that kind of a player. He's around the ball because he is a weak spot that the opposing offense goes after.... because he isn't very good. Be patient.... you'll find out soon enough.

The thing you don't under stand is the only numbers that Allen is better at are tackles, all the other numbers Allen has are slightly lower or equal to McCalister and Madison, so if teams are throwing the ball Allens way more why don't the #'s reflect that?? Allen has more tackles because he's a better tackler and because he's used more in run support then McCalister or Madison.

Marcus Trufant plays for the Seahawks a team with a good enough D to make it to the SB last year. Here are Trufants stats from last year:

2005 Seattle Seahawks 15 64 55.0 9 1 1 7 7.0 7 0 13

Chris McCalisters #'s from last year:

2005 Baltimore Ravens 14 48 46.0 2 0 1 0 0.0 0 0 12

Sam Madisons #'s from last year:

2005 Miami Dolphins 15 55 45.0 10 0 2 11 5.5 11 0 9

Will Allens #'s from last year:

2005 New York Giants 16 72 64.0 8 0 0 17 0.0 17 0 11

Now based on four different CB's from for different teams playing the same position ...about the same amount of games, COULD ONE OF YOU JET FANS SHOWM ME WHERE ALLENS #'S ARE ANY WORSE THEN ANY OF THE OTHER PLAYERS IN THAT LIST OF 4??????????????????????????????????????

Coud one of you frikin geniuses showm me where the proof is that QB's threw the ball more at Allen more then any of the other three highly respected CB's???? PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You people just have no clue what you're talking about. You people don't understand the game and you never post with anything to back up what you say, you pople just flap your gums together and make funny noises!!! Again I give you facts with what actually happened during real NFL football games involving the four players above and all you Jets fans can say is...the Giant fans think he sucks.....it must be true!!! You people are a wealth of knowledge.....but I'm not sure being an expert at navel lint, and nose picking counts for much.

[GreenBeans]

Let me put to you this way pain - I'm happy, as a Jets fan, that the Dolphins have Will Allen. Understand now?

[feelthepain]

Dude, all Ive seen in your posts are insults to anyone who doesnt agree with you. You claim to have more football knowledge than anyone here. Why dont you just go send your f*cking resume to the NFL then and stop acting like such and A-HOLE!!!!

OK bright boy show me where I've insulted anyone, and show me where I'm doing anything other then presenting facts to oppose opinion!! You can't, you just don't like fin fans and the fact that I put your football genius girlfriend in her place. Deal with it, I'm not a trouble maker I bring facts to backup what I say and you have no ammo for that, so you whine about it?

...Jetman67: "oh go away you big meannie, or i'll cry"!!!

Give me a break. I don't care if you agree with me, but if you're gonna post have the brains to back up what you write otherwise whats the point? If you Jet fans are gonna say a player sucks then prove he sucks or at least give a good reason, but don't hide behind what another teams fans say as your reason for trashing a player. It seems to me you Jet fans aren't mature enough to have a debate with a rival fan, so what do you do?...whine!!!!

[feelthepain]

Let me put to you this way pain - I'm happy, as a Jets fan, that the Dolphins have Will Allen. Understand now?

And I feel sorry for you, because you don't understand the difference between a player that sucks and one that doesn't, understad??

[Jetman67]

OK bright boy show me where I've insulted anyone, and show me where I'm doing anything other then presenting facts to oppose opinion!! You can't, you just don't like fin fans and the fact that I put your football genius girlfriend in her place. Deal with it, I'm not a trouble maker I bring facts to backup what I say and you have no ammo for that, so you whine about it.

...Jetman67:"oh go away you big meannie, or i'll cry"!!!

Give me a break. I don't care if you agree with me, but if you're gonna post have the brains to back up what you write otherwise whats the point? If you Jet fans are gonna say a player sucks then prove he sucks or at least give a good reason, but don't hide behind what another teams fans say as your reason for trashing a player. It seems to me you Jet fans aren't mature enough to have a debate with a rival fan, so what do you do?...whine!!!!

You havent proven anything except that you know how to copy and paste stats on a messageboard. Guess What??? Stats are over rated and dont guarantee production when a player changes teams and coaches.

Yes, its true I hate Blowfish Fans, I also hate Bills fans, Patsy fans etc.

The main reason I hate blowfish fans is they always are claiming to be contenders in the spring/summer yet, when fall arrives its a whole other story.

[StraightCash]

And I feel sorry for you, because you don't understand the difference between a player that sucks and one that doesn't, understad??

Will Allen has more tackles than the other CB's because the WR he covers catches more passes, duh.

[feelthepain]

Will Allen has more tackles than the other CB's because the WR he covers catches more passes, duh.

And because he played in more games...duhhh!!!

[StraightCash]

And because he played in more games...duhhh!!!

Did something go over my head? How does that help your point at all? Your entire argument is based on statistics, then you say because he played in more games? I'm really confused because that would make all his other stats as irrelevant. I must have made a mistake, or you must be 12. One or the other.

[feelthepain]

You havent proven anything except that you know how to copy and paste stats on a messageboard. Guess What??? Stats are over rated and dont guarantee production when a player changes teams and coaches.

Yes, its true I hate Blowfish Fans, I also hate Bills fans, Patsy fans etc.

The main reason I hate blowfish fans is they always are claiming to be contenders in the spring/summer yet, when fall arrives its a whole other story.

Look pal, I could care less what you think of me or my team. I don't live and die by what you or anyone else here thinks. Jet fans are bitter, you talk trash as well as any fan in the division and well before the season starts I might add, it just so happens you don't have anything to talk trash about, and you know it. However if the Jets had just come of a winning season and they were in a psoition to improve enough to make the playoffs you Jet fans would be talking trash too so get off your high horse.

I'm here as usual to defend a player that is a Dolphin that, surprise surprise the Jet fans think sucks...I mean what are the odds a Jet fan thinks a dolphin player sucks???What?? Even odds??? You people just hate the fins and can't stand them having any talent at all so what do you do?? Look for any excuse in the world to trash any player thats a Dolphin...so much so that you'll join forces with the hated cross town rivals to use them as your source of information on a player.

You act like you watch all Giant games and your an expert on the Giant players. fffttt, whatever!! How do you watch Giant games all the time when the Jets are playing?? You may watch two Giant games a year, but you'll watch more Dolphin, Pat and Bill gmaes then you will Giant games because the Giants don't play in your division. Like I said I don't care if you like what I have to say, I'll lose no sleep over it. So grow up and learn that rival fans aren't going to allow you to just trash their team because you're to immature to deal with the facts. If you can't handle a little debate, then I feel sorry for you.

[feelthepain]

Did something go over my head? How does that help your point at all? Your entire argument is based on statistics, then you say because he played in more games? I'm really confused because that would make all his other stats as irrelevant. I must have made a mistake, or you must be 12. One or the other.

Did you look at the stats??? Did you see that Allen played in 16 games and all the rest played in 15 or 14?? Did you see that Allen had 64 tackles and Trufant had 55??? Ok here's where it gets tricky, whats 64 divided by 16??? 4 right??? Now if trufant played in 15 games last year and he had 55 tackles but one less game then Allen what would the difference in tackles be between Allen and Trufant?? Maybe 4 tackles but thats about right because Allen played in one more game, not exactly a major difference between the two players over a full season huh?? So if Trufant played for the Seahawks, a D that was good enough to help their team get to the SB, then the CB play must not have sucked, right???? Well if the differnce between Trufant and Allen is all of 4 tackles over a 16 game period then how can Allen suck because QB's would always throw his way and Trfant not suck because he had the same #'s as Allen??

[nj meadowlands]

I've never seen someone able to type so much and say so little...well.. maybe Ham

[doggystyle]

Crap. B or S; Philip Rivers putting up similar numbers to Drew Brees.

Sell

B or Sell: Kordell Stewart is gay

[StillerPaul]

Sell

B or Sell: Kordell Stewart is gay

Buy

B or S: New England wins 12 games

[ThunderbirdJet]

The thing you don't under stand is the only numbers that Allen is better at are tackles, all the other numbers Allen has are slightly lower or equal to McCalister and Madison, so if teams are throwing the ball Allens way more why don't the #'s reflect that?? Allen has more tackles because he's a better tackler and because he's used more in run support then McCalister or Madison.

Marcus Trufant plays for the Seahawks a team with a good enough D to make it to the SB last year. Here are Trufants stats from last year:

2005 Seattle Seahawks 15 64 55.0 9 1 1 7 7.0 7 0 13

Chris McCalisters #'s from last year:

2005 Baltimore Ravens 14 48 46.0 2 0 1 0 0.0 0 0 12

Sam Madisons #'s from last year:

2005 Miami Dolphins 15 55 45.0 10 0 2 11 5.5 11 0 9

Will Allens #'s from last year:

2005 New York Giants 16 72 64.0 8 0 0 17 0.0 17 0 11

Now based on four different CB's from for different teams playing the same position ...about the same amount of games, COULD ONE OF YOU JET FANS SHOWM ME WHERE ALLENS #'S ARE ANY WORSE THEN ANY OF THE OTHER PLAYERS IN THAT LIST OF 4??????????????????????????????????????

Coud one of you frikin geniuses showm me where the proof is that QB's threw the ball more at Allen more then any of the other three highly respected CB's???? PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You people just have no clue what you're talking about. You people don't understand the game and you never post with anything to back up what you say, you pople just flap your gums together and make funny noises!!! Again I give you facts with what actually happened during real NFL football games involving the four players above and all you Jets fans can say is...the Giant fans think he sucks.....it must be true!!! You people are a wealth of knowledge.....but I'm not sure being an expert at navel lint, and nose picking counts for much.

You are funny! No really, you are! We get, or should I say have to watch all the Giants games in NY. I've seen every game Allen ever played for the Giants. You think stats are the be-all, end-all. YOU are the clueless one here! Not only do the Giants fans KNOW he is a poor coverage CB, so do the Jet fans..... we've WATCHED him! Ever watch a football game?

Geezus.... are all Fins fans THIS stupid!?! LMAO! Get out of kindergarten.... and come back in 10 years.

[RSJ]

Buy

B or S: New England wins 12 games

Sell. They will win 10 or 11.

Buy or Sell? rajansen88 is really Lia Edwards.

[feelthepain]

You are funny! No really, you are! We get, or should I say have to watch all the Giants games in NY. I've seen every game Allen ever played for the Giants. You think stats are the be-all, end-all. YOU are the clueless one here! Not only do the Giants fans KNOW he is a poor coverage CB, so do the Jet fans..... we've WATCHED him! Ever watch a football game?

Geezus.... are all Fins fans THIS stupid!?! LMAO! Get out of kindergarten.... and come back in 10 years.

I know, believe me I understand Allens stats are nearly the same as the other CB's I showed you on the list on a previous post. But no one here thinks Trufant sucks, or Madison or McCalister, nope Just Allen. What is it about Allen that sets him apart from the others with nearly the same numbers.....I know, he's a Dolphin!!!! God I found the key to the Jet fans logic! He sucks cause he's a fin. Yeah your opinion is without bias. Riiiigggghhhhttt!!!