Jet/BosoxFan 2,164 Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 OK. The joke is over now...Alex, please return last year's trophy to its rightful owner, Mr David Ortiz. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bugg 44,624 Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Sure it counts in the standings. But against Tom Gordon? Gordon was probably peeing his pants in the bullpen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haggis 14,693 Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Outstanding. The guy is just unreal and I can't think of a more clutch athlete playing any sport today. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nj meadowlands 26,492 Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 OK. The joke is over now...Alex, please return last year's trophy to its rightful owner, Mr David Ortiz. I didn't know Papi's home run today counted toward last year... nitwit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmike1 109,248 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Giambi is still having a better year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
124 142,407 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 No matter what uniform he's in, Tom Gordon is continuley owned by the Red Sox. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonEJet 61,506 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 He's a Roid-monger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PFSIKH 101,506 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Giambi is still having a better year. What that .001 higher BA compensates for 2 less HRs and 10 less RBIs? You are stupid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmike1 109,248 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 What that .001 higher BA compensates for 2 less HRs and 10 less RBIs? You are stupid. Only a moron boston fans thinks that those are the important stats when Giambi has 60 less AB's and OVER ONE HUNDRED points higher OPS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GimmeShelter 21,641 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Giambi is having a very good season but game on the line Ortiz is on a different planet compared with any Yankee. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmike1 109,248 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Giambi is having a very good season but game on the line Ortiz is on a different planet compared with any Yankee. There is where people who know nothing about stats make their mistakes. A player with an OPS over 1.039 is CLEARLY a better hitter then a guy with a 932 OPS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GimmeShelter 21,641 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 There is where people who know nothing about stats make their mistakes. A player with an OPS over 1.039 is CLEARLY a better hitter then a guy with a 932 OPS. Mike, I said game on the line. I am well aware of OPS as a statistic and the reason Giambi's is higher is because he takes the walk where Ortiz looks to swing the bat. If you are even hinting that Giambi is a better player, especially with the game on the line, then there is no need to continue this discussion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmike1 109,248 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Mike, I said game on the line. I am well aware of OPS as a statistic and the reason Giambi's is higher is because he takes the walk where Ortiz looks to swing the bat. If you are even hinting that Giambi is a better player, especially with the game on the line, then there is no need to continue this discussion. Giambi has been a better HITTER throught his entire carrer and nothing is different this season. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GimmeShelter 21,641 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Giambi has been a better HITTER throught his entire carrer and nothing is different this season. WOW. OK Mike....have a good day. Ortiz late inning pressure , runners on .429 avg. Giambi same situation......091 avg. Tell me about OPS again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmike1 109,248 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 WOW. OK Mike....have a good day. Giambi has had 4 YEARS over 1. OPS Ortiz :1 Giambi 4 years hitting over 314 Ortiz: 0 Giambi 7 years with OPS over 400 Ortiz: ZERO Giambi has CLEARLY had a better carrer and is clearly a better hitter. Don't let the myth of "clutch hitting" fool you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyCarl40 53,206 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Well if OPS is the end all stat, MadMike, then Trot Nixon is a better player than anyone on the Yankees aside from Giambi. Fascinating. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmike1 109,248 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Well if OPS is the end all stat, MadMike, then Trot Nixon is a better player than anyone on the Yankees aside from Giambi. Fascinating. OPS isn't the end all stat but OPS is. And the yankees havn't hit this year so it wouldn't supprise me if nixon has a higher OPS then some of them but he's also a platoon player who can't hit leftys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxman 539,280 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Ortiz is cluch. Man he is just sick. Giambi is nice. But with 2nd and 3rd down by one...Giambi would take ball 4 off the plate and load them up. Ortiz is putting that ball 2 inches off the plate into Orbit! Giambi is good. A real good hitter. But Ortiz is just insane right now. Off the charts (in the clutch I am talking about). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GimmeShelter 21,641 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Ortiz is cluch. Man he is just sick. Giambi is nice. But with 2nd and 3rd down by one...Giambi would take ball 4 off the plate and load them up. Ortiz is putting that ball 2 inches off the plate into Orbit! Giambi is good. A real good hitter. But Ortiz is just insane right now. Off the charts (in the clutch I am talking about). Thanks Max. You explained my point a little more clearer than I did. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmike1 109,248 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Ortiz is cluch. Man he is just sick. Giambi is nice. But with 2nd and 3rd down by one...Giambi would take ball 4 off the plate and load them up. Ortiz is putting that ball 2 inches off the plate into Orbit! Giambi is good. A real good hitter. But Ortiz is just insane right now. Off the charts (in the clutch I am talking about). Whos really clutch?? Giambi: Close and late: 795ops Scoring Posision: 288 with a 1.275 OPS Scoring Posision 2 out 250 1.270 OPS 3HR Ortiz: Close and late 216avg Scoring posision: 282 919 OPS Scoring posision 2 outs 1.093 OPS 4HR Neither of them have done much close and late but Giambi has been better because of his OPB. Giambi is clearly better with RISP and Ortiz has a slight edge with RISP and 2 outs. The numbers show that even though you hear alot about all of ortiz's "clutchness" the numbers just don't bear that out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyCarl40 53,206 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 OPS isn't the end all stat but OPS is. And the yankees havn't hit this year so it wouldn't supprise me if nixon has a higher OPS then some of them but he's also a platoon player who can't hit leftys. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. OPS isn't the end all stat but OPS is? Que? Oh and Trot Nixon may be a platoon player (but not so much this season) but he is 5th in the league in BA, 3rd in OBP, and 12th in OPS. Just for measure A-Rod is not in the top 40 for BA, 12th in OBP, and 17th in OPS. And Trot's BA vs. lefties is higher than Giambis vs. lefties. But hey, he's just a platoon player. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmike1 109,248 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 I'm not sure what you're trying to say. OPS isn't the end all stat but OPS is? Que? Oh and Trot Nixon may be a platoon player (but not so much this season) but he is 5th in the league in BA, 3rd in OBP, and 12th in OPS. Just for measure A-Rod is not in the top 40 for BA, 12th in OBP, and 17th in OPS. And Trot's BA vs. lefties is higher than Giambis vs. lefties. But hey, he's just a platoon player. OBP isn't the end all but OPS is. If you want to say that Trot Nixon is better then Arod because of OPS this year i'm not gonna argue with you. Boston has ALOT of players who are playing over their heads and the yankees have alot of players who are underacheiving right now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyCarl40 53,206 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Whos really clutch?? Giambi: Close and late: 795ops Scoring Posision: 288 with a 1.275 OPS Scoring Posision 2 out 250 1.270 OPS 3HR Ortiz: Close and late 216avg Scoring posision: 282 919 OPS Scoring posision 2 outs 1.093 OPS 4HR Neither of them have done much close and late but Giambi has been better because of his OPB. Giambi is clearly better with RISP and Ortiz has a slight edge with RISP and 2 outs. The numbers show that even though you hear alot about all of ortiz's "clutchness" the numbers just don't bear that out. Here's clutch: Papi has more walkoff Homeruns than anyone in the majors since 2002. He has more go-ahead RBIs this season than anyone in the Majors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmike1 109,248 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Here's clutch: Papi has more walkoff Homeruns than anyone in the majors since 2002. He has more go-ahead RBIs this season than anyone in the Majors. Arod has the most GAME WINNING RBIs in the majors this year so does that make him more clutch? Clutch is a complete myth. The good hiters are the ones who people think are "clutch" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thor99 410,326 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 MadMike, your blind hatred for anything RedSox is making you look foolish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmike1 109,248 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 MadMike, your blind hatred for anything RedSox is making you look foolish. I'm impartial compared to 99% of the Boston morons on this site. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wildthing2022000 7,464 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 I'm not impartial compared to 99% of the Boston fans on this site. Fixed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
124 142,407 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 1. 26 Who cares. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonEJet 61,506 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 David Ortiz (this year): RISP - 6 HR, 42 RBI, .279 avg, .393 OBP RISP w/ 2 out - 4 HR, 22 RBI, .316 avg, .409 OBP Bases Loaded - 1 HR, 12 RBI, .375 avg, .400 OBP Alex Rodriguez (this year): RISP - 6 HR, 39 RBI, .313 avg, .458 OBP RISP w/ 2 out - 3 HR, 16 RBI, .351 avg, .529 OBP Bases Loaded - 1 HR, 11 RBI, .429 avg, .500 OBP Derek Jeter (this year): RISP - 2 HR, 37 RBI, .379 avg, .494 OBP RISP w/ 2 out - 1 HR, 15 RBI, .414 avg, .528 OBP Bases Loaded - 0 HR, 7 RBI, .400 avg, .625 OBP Just saying Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haggis 14,693 Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Ortiz is cluch. Man he is just sick. Giambi is nice. But with 2nd and 3rd down by one...Giambi would take ball 4 off the plate and load them up. Ortiz is putting that ball 2 inches off the plate into Orbit! Giambi is good. A real good hitter. But Ortiz is just insane right now. Off the charts (in the clutch I am talking about). Great post. Liten, let's be real and say Giambi has really found his way back from his steroid bottom. But lets also not foget whay he was there or why his numbers are skewed: STEROIDS. Like it or not, Giambi comes with a steroid tag and Ortiz doesn't. The numbers I see floating around here with regards to Giambi have asterisks on them thanks to him doing drugs. He may be batting clean now (who knows), but copmparing ANY career stats with anyone is unfair as Ortiz has no track record. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PFSIKH 101,506 Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Giambi has had 4 YEARS over 1. OPS Ortiz :1 Giambi 4 years hitting over 314 Ortiz: 0 Giambi 7 years with OPS over 400 Ortiz: ZERO Giambi has CLEARLY had a better carrer and is clearly a better hitter. Don't let the myth of "clutch hitting" fool you. MM You made a good point with the ABs and difference in HRs/RBIs, mea culpa. However, making an argument for GiambROID is disengenuious. First, let's take age into factor. Giambi is 35. Big Papi 30. Through their last complete season at the age of 29 (i.e. 2005 for Big Papi and 2000 for Giambi), the >1.000 OPS is 1 to 1; >.314 BA GIambi 2 to 0; and >.400 OPS Giambi 2 to 0. I will agree with the claim that on the surface, Giambi is a better hitter. However, here is where I disagree with it, what are Giambi's BA since roid speculation started swirling around him? .250 .208. .271 .267. Take away the Big Papi shift being employed and I would say Big Papi is the better hitter. Giambi has always had more plate disipline and drive up his OBP. Where did you get those close and late numbers whiteman? According to ESPN splits: Giambi's splits are .115 BA .385 OBP/SLG and .770 OPS. Papi's splits are .231 BA .286 OBP .667 SLG and .953 OPS. The rest of your numbers are close, but you did leave out one key stat. Ks in both of those RISP splits. Big Papi has 124 ABs vs Giambi's 77, but has struck out one time less. Giambi does seem to be having a better year, but the real 'clean,' allegedly, GiambROID's #s are not that much better. Upon further reflection, Giambi definetly has a cloud over his career. I think those close and late numbers are a more accurate view of our two players. I wonder what our respective players splits are with the added leading by 5 or more runs. Maybe I missed all his highlights, but I can not seem to go more then two weeks without seeing a Big Papi blast. I cannot say the same for Giambi. JonE Using your logic, then Big Papi is having an MVP caliber season much like A-Rod last year. Just saying, Big Papi had numbers on A-Rod in all the 'clutch' categories last year, but finished second. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jet/BosoxFan 2,164 Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 Is this a trap? Like if we even entertain the notion that Juicin' Jason* and Alex Rodriguez are not only in Big Papi's hemisphere...but actually better than David Ortiz in "clutch" performance...are Tankee fans gonna just say "gotcha!!!" I feel like this discussion is a set up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Barton 66,784 Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 riiiiiiiiiiiiight.......like david ortiz never took steroids lol. There are clutch at bats and clutch hits and then there are CLUTCH AT BATS and CLUTCH HITS......and king kong is definetly more clutch than Arod for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jets22 92 Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 riiiiiiiiiiiiight.......like david ortiz never took steroids lol. There are clutch at bats and clutch hits and then there are CLUTCH AT BATS and CLUTCH HITS......and king kong is definetly more clutch than Arod for sure. I got agree......funny how Ortiz was average at best in Minnesota. Kinda one of those guys who all of a sudden is that much better.??. I agree he has hit same big shots. But how "clutch" are you in may and june as opposed to aug or sept. Seems to me the Yanks won the division again last year. MVP? to a guy who has no fielding skills and is on the bench 90% of the game ???? Just saying Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haggis 14,693 Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I got agree......funny how Ortiz was average at best in Minnesota. Kinda one of those guys who all of a sudden is that much better.??. I agree he has hit same big shots. But how "clutch" are you in may and june as opposed to aug or sept. Seems to me the Yanks won the division again last year. MVP? to a guy who has no fielding skills and is on the bench 90% of the game ???? Just saying If you read last weeks SI you'll hear why he was average there. Minnesota was all about small ball and coaching Ortiz to hit differently. At Boston he was able to open up more and swing freely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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