Melky may be on way out

[madmike1]

Well, I believe it ties in.

Back in Oakland, Giambi would often take the pitches on the outside part of the plate the other way for singles and doubles, even home runs, now he just pulls almost everything, I'm guessing he strikes out more in NY then he did in Oakland by a fairly significant difference. He almost knubs more balls off the end of the bat because he is constantly in pull mode and he flys out more and obviously hits more weak ground balls. So that greatly effects his batting average and OBP, as well as his SLG % altho to a lesser degree.

Just food for thought. Good discussion.

You make a good point. The fact that he's beccome more of a pull hitter means they play the shift on him and that takes off about 50 points off his batting avg just as it does for guys like Delgado and Ortiz.

[Barton]

You make a good point. The fact that he's beccome more of a pull hitter means they play the shift on him and that takes off about 50 points off his batting avg just as it does for guys like Delgado and Ortiz.

Exactly. If Giambi was the complete hitter he once was they would never put that big shift on him. He would just take the outside pitch the other way, putting the ball right thru the gigantic hole on the left side of the Giambi shift. The truly great hitters are the ones who you cant play defense against (Gwynn, Jeter, Ichiro etc etc). They use all parts of the ballpark and can cover any part of the plate with their swing, inside out the inside pitch, slicing it the other way etc etc. Thats why I love Cano, he just takes what he gets and doesnt try to do too much with it. Giambi used to be this way + the power. Thats what made him so special. Now its just Power with him. Not bad, but definetly not half the player he was in Oakland.

[madmike1]

Exactly. If Giambi was the complete hitter he once was they would never put that big shift on him. He would just take the outside pitch the other way, putting the ball right thru the gigantic hole on the left side of the Giambi shift. The truly great hitters are the ones who you cant play defense against (Gwynn, Jeter, Ichiro etc etc). They use all parts of the ballpark and can cover any part of the plate with their swing, inside out the inside pitch, slicing it the other way etc etc. Thats why I love Cano, he just takes what he gets and doesnt try to do too much with it. Giambi used to be this way + the power. Thats what made him so special. Now its just Power with him. Not bad, but definetly not half the player he was in Oakland.

Just because cano hits the ball the other way though dosn't mean you can compare him to giambi's oakland years which were some of the best years in baseball history. That 325 avg is better then cano has been this year as his OBP shows. Just because he's a better oppisite field hitter then giambi right now dosn't change that.

[Barton]

Just because cano hits the ball the other way though dosn't mean you can compare him to giambi's oakland years which were some of the best years in baseball history. That 325 avg is better then cano has been this year as his OBP shows. Just because he's a better oppisite field hitter then giambi right now dosn't change that.

I'm not comparing Cano, as I am comparing what Giambi was to what Cano is, minus the powe for Cano.

Giambi was really the only hitter at the time that was challenging for a batting title and the home run title. He was very special. Now, not so much. There are plenty of guys like him now. I think if that short porch was not always the first thing in his mind, trying to earn his paycheck with the long ball, he'd be a much more complete hitter, hitting for a much higher BA, higher OBP, maybe a few less home runs, but a much much better hitter and certainly more valuable to the team. Something like .320, 35 home runs, 145 RBIs. Instead of .270, 45 home runs and similar RBI totals.

Case in point, look at Giambi's BA in Oakland with RISP. He was 1 of the most clutch hitters in MLB at that time. Now, with the Yankees and RISP he trys to be the man too much and hitting the long ball, and he is not half the clutch hitter he once was with RISP. In Oakland he took what he got on the outside plate when it came and he drove it the other way for singles and doubles and was a very high BA with RISP probably around .350+ I would guess. Now? He almost always looks to pull the ball and gets out far more often then he used to wRISP, not nearly as valuable as he could have been for us.

I was basically just saying Giambi back in Oakland was Jeter/Cano + Giambi instead of just Giambi.

[madmike1]

RISP and close and late numbers are very suspect over one year. Runs in the first inning are just as good as ones in the 8th and giambi is producing runs at hall of famer levels even if he's not putting up his oakland numbers.

[Blackout]

id like to keep cano and melky both

abreau may be a better player now than either of them, but it won't be that way in 3-4 years

[madmike1]

id like to keep cano and melky both

abreau may be a better player now than either of them, but it won't be that way in 3-4 years

i HIGHLY doubt that cano or melky will ever be as good hitters as bobby abreu.

[Smizzy]

Go look at Craig Wilson's stats. He's a VERY good hitter and thats exactly what the yankees need. Higher carrer OPS then matsui... the yankees have to do this trade if it's available.

Wilson is a K machine.

[Smizzy]

2 names for you guys....

Rickey Ledee

Shane Spencer

[madmike1]

Wilson is a K machine.

Strikeouts are another pretty meaningless stat if a guy has a good OPS.

[Barton]

2 names for you guys....

Rickey Ledee

Shane Spencer

Feel free to throw Clay Bellinger and Chad Curtis into that list.

Sometimes the smallest of stars come up the biggest on the big stage.

It's always been the Yankees MO when they win a world series, some nobody gets a huge hit to help them win the game or series. Curtis, Ledee, Soriano in the 01 WS, Cano last year vs the Angels came up huge, Sojo, Vizcaino etc etc.

[Barton]

Strikeouts are another pretty meaningless stat if a guy has a good OPS.

You love that OPS stat dont you. Its a good blanket, but it has some holes.

[madmike1]

You love that OPS stat dont you. Its a good blanket, but it has some holes.

It you have to judge players on one stat OPS is by far the best.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2617

Here's a good artice about why k's are meaningless.

[madmike1]

Feel free to throw Clay Bellinger and Chad Curtis into that list.

Sometimes the smallest of stars come up the biggest on the big stage.

It's always been the Yankees MO when they win a world series, some nobody gets a huge hit to help them win the game or series. Curtis, Ledee, Soriano in the 01 WS, Cano last year vs the Angels came up huge, Sojo, Vizcaino etc etc.

Thats not somthing you can bank on when building a team.

[Blackout]

i HIGHLY doubt that cano or melky will ever be as good hitters as bobby abreu.

and abreu won't be as good a hitter in 3-4 years as those 2 will

[madmike1]

and abreu won't be as good a hitter in 3-4 years as those 2 will

I'd trade melky for 3 years of abreu or wilson in a second. Abreu allows the yankees to let sheffield walk and have a good RF to step right in and Wilson gives them a solid DH/OF this year and a guy they can resign to play DH/Bench next year. Melky's ceiling is a good 4th outfielder, He'll never hit like abreu and he probably won't hit like wilson. Cano the yankees can't trade becuase he plays 2B and they have no one to replace him with.

[Matt39]

and abreu won't be as good a hitter in 3-4 years as those 2 will

[Sharrow]

I love Craig as a person, but I just don't think he has much of a place in the buc's future anymore. He would be a decent DH, and he's not really that bad in the outfield, he can spot start there or at first. And Burnitz can be decent lefty bat off the bench. We don't really need either of them. I don't know why we signed burnitz at all, maybe for the exact purpose to trade him.

Burnitz, C.Wilson, and Kip Wells for Melky and Hughes. Final offer.

Maybe we'll throw in humberto cota too.

[GimmeShelter]

Go look at Craig Wilson's stats. He's a VERY good hitter and thats exactly what the yankees need. Higher carrer OPS then matsui... the yankees have to do this trade if it's available.

We agree on something though why the BUCS would want Melky other than in a cut payroll move is beyond me. .

[GimmeShelter]

2 names for you guys....

Rickey Ledee

Shane Spencer

And two for you....

Melky Cabrera.

Andy Phillips.

Wilson would be a good move as everyone is trying to rip the Yanks off.

[Exit 117]

Strikeouts are another pretty meaningless stat if a guy has a good OPS.

Runner on 2nd, he's the tying run, and there is 1 out. You'll take a strikeout over a fly ball?

[madmike1]

Runner on 2nd, he's the tying run, and there is 1 out. You'll take a strikeout over a fly ball?

Obviously you can pull out indivdual situations where a strikeout hurts you but only any period of time there is no negitive effect on run production.

[Exit 117]

Oh, and BTW, Cano isn't the best 2nd basemen in the AL. Jose Lopez is.

[madmike1]

Oh, and BTW, Cano isn't the best 2nd basemen in the AL. Jose Lopez is.

Just ignore a silly little thing called stats.

[Exit 117]

Just ignore a silly little thing called stats.

You could, too. More runs scored, Lopez has more RBIs, grounded into less double plays, has a better slugging percentage... The only stats Cano has on him is AVG, OBP, and K's.

There is more to life than OPS.

[madmike1]

You could, too. More runs scored, Lopez has more RBIs, grounded into less double plays, has a better slugging percentage... The only stats Cano has on him is AVG, OBP, and K's.

There is more to life than OPS.

50 point higher OPS = Better hitter every time. You're just one of those met fans who will do anything to bash the yankees because you need to do that in order to validate your team.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Come on Mike...OBP? Have you ever heard of an award given out after the season for the best OBP? Have you ever heard of a player being traded based on OBP? Has a player ever been inducted into the HOF based on OBP?

[madmike1]

Come on Mike...OBP? Have you ever heard of an award given out after the season for the best OBP? Have you ever heard of a player being traded based on OBP? Has a player ever been inducted into the HOF based on OBP?

If more teams made personel decisions based on OBP and SLG and not meaningless stats like K's and batting avg then more teams woud be able to win with less money.

[Exit 117]

50 point higher OPS = Better hitter every time. You're just one of those met fans who will do anything to bash the yankees because you need to do that in order to validate your team.

Yeah, that is exactly what it is

I don't honestly give a damn about the Yankees, but you have to be the biggest biased poster towards the Yankees I have ever seen in my life. You obsess over stats that are important but need to work with other stats. OPS is good, but when every other stat doesn't lean your way, just seriously, admit your mistakes.

It's also pathetic that you attack me for being a Mets fan who will do anything to bash the Yankees. Honestly, **** you. You don't know me, so don't jump to conclusions. You're just insecure because you know there is a good chance your team won't make the postseason.

[GM]

Yeah, that is exactly what it is

I don't honestly give a damn about the Yankees, but you have to be the biggest biased poster towards the Yankees I have ever seen in my life. You obsess over stats that are important but need to work with other stats. OPS is good, but when every other stat doesn't lean your way, just seriously, admit your mistakes.

It's also pathetic that you attack me for being a Mets fan who will do anything to bash the Yankees. Honestly, **** you. You don't know me, so don't jump to conclusions. You're just insecure because you know there is a good chance your team won't make the postseason.

You need a hug Exit???? I am here for you.

[madmike1]

Yeah, that is exactly what it is

I don't honestly give a damn about the Yankees, but you have to be the biggest biased poster towards the Yankees I have ever seen in my life. You obsess over stats that are important but need to work with other stats. OPS is good, but when every other stat doesn't lean your way, just seriously, admit your mistakes.

It's also pathetic that you attack me for being a Mets fan who will do anything to bash the Yankees. Honestly, **** you. You don't know me, so don't jump to conclusions. You're just insecure because you know there is a good chance your team won't make the postseason.

What does Cano vs Lopez have to do with the yankees making the playoffs? Their are certian stats that mean somthing and there are certian stats that don't mean anything you keep bringing up stats that don't mean anything like K's AVG and DP's and try to use them to prove your point when the better stats already take those into account. I adhere to the same stats about every player yet i'm bias LOL

You think the Mets farm system is better then the yankees system RIGHT NOW based on Wright Reyes and Kazmir who have been in the majors for 3 year. Thats all anyone needs to know about how well you know what you're talking about. Thats the EXACT SAME THING as a yankee fan saying their system is great NOW because of jeter Rivera and Bernie. They are both morinic statements.

[NIGHT STALKER]

If more teams made personel decisions based on OBP and SLG and not meaningless stats like K's and batting avg then more teams woud be able to win with less money.

But, they don't! Teams weigh everything from how a player hits or pitches in day games compared to night games, how he plays on the road compared to home games, etc. A lot of stats go into decision making these days because of the the money...OBP is one of them, not the key factor.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Yeah, that is exactly what it is

I don't honestly give a damn about the Yankees, but you have to be the biggest biased poster towards the Yankees I have ever seen in my life. You obsess over stats that are important but need to work with other stats. OPS is good, but when every other stat doesn't lean your way, just seriously, admit your mistakes.

It's also pathetic that you attack me for being a Mets fan who will do anything to bash the Yankees. Honestly, **** you. You don't know me, so don't jump to conclusions. You're just insecure because you know there is a good chance your team won't make the postseason.[/quote

A good chance the Yanks won't make the postseason? Where did you come up with that?

[madmike1]

But, they don't! Teams weigh everything from how a player hits or pitches in day games compared to night games, how he plays on the road compared to home games, etc. A lot of stats go into decision making these days because of the the money...OBP is one of them, not the key factor.

Thats not true acctualy. the teams that have done the best job in personal lately like the red sox the a's and the bluejays. Weigh OBP and OPS much higher then other meaningless stats.

[Exit 117]

What does Cano vs Lopez have to do with the yankees making the playoffs?

And what does my so-called insecurity about the Mets and having to validate them have to do with Cano vs. Lopez?

Their are certian stats that mean somthing and there are certian stats that don't mean anything you keep bringing up stats that don't mean anything like K's AVG and DP's and try to use them to prove your point when the better stats already take those into account. I adhere to the same stats about every player yet i'm bias LOL

DP's are important, just ask A-Rod who GIDP'd last year in the playoffs in the 9th inning with nobody out. K's, I more or less agree with you about, as I said before. And average, I didn't even use it in my argument you thick-skulled moron. You ARE being biased because you're only using ONE stat and IGNORING the rest because they don't agree with you.

You think the Mets farm system is better then the yankees system RIGHT NOW based on Wright Reyes and Kazmir who have been in the majors for 3 year. Thats all anyone needs to know about how well you know what you're talking about. Thats the EXACT SAME THING as a yankee fan saying their system is great NOW because of jeter Rivera and Bernie. They are both morinic statements.

This entire thing right here was a ****ing moronic statement because I DIDN'T SAY IT YOU JACKASS. Please, quote me where I said this. Do it. Right now.