Santana Moss

[124]

Boy we should've never let him go. I love LC but Santana would've shined under the new offense that Mangini is going to install I believe.

Boy letting Santana go was a mistake.

[jetophile]

He isn't here any longer, and there's no use focusing on it. Vaya con Dios, Senor Oompa Loompa.

[aec4]

Boy we should've never let him go. I love LC but Santana would've shined under the new offense that Mangini is going to install I believe.

Boy letting Santana go was a mistake.

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE said it was an awesome deal and thought I was nuts when I said Moss was better than Coles... I think Coles is pretty good though and we'll be ok. Moss last year would have caught nothing.

[SeniorFlaJet]

Boy we should've never let him go. I love LC but Santana would've shined under the new offense that Mangini is going to install I believe.

Boy letting Santana go was a mistake.

Maybe,maybe not. Remember if he was here last year there would

be no LC. Moss would have suffered as the whole offensive did last year.

There would have been no knowledge of the career year that he had

with Wash. In fact I could see many posts screaming to get rid of

him this year.

[RSJ]

Maybe,maybe not. Remember if he was here last year there would

be no LC. Moss would have suffered as the whole offensive did last year.

There would have been no knowledge of the career year that he had

with Wash. In fact I could see many posts screaming to get rid of

him this year.

Good point - Moss would have just been another bad Bradway pick had he stuck around. I have a feeling Coles will do very well with this coaching staff.

[Barton]

Coles > S.Moss

[124]

Coles > S.Moss

Gamebreaker (Moss) > Possession Reciever (Coles)

Didn't last year proove this enough to you?

[Barton]

Gamebreaker (Moss) > Possession Reciever (Coles)

Didn't last year proove this enough to you?

What games did Coles have a chance to break?

What has their careers shown you? Coles > Moss. Moss had a running game, was on a good team, with a decent enough QB. Coles has always outperformed him aside from the season where he had 5 different QBs throwing him the ball and a dead running game. Plus, Coles is tougher than sideline santana.

I'll be here all night folks.

[jetophile]

Gamebreaker (Moss) > Possession Reciever (Coles)

Didn't last year proove this enough to you?

I feel like a broken record, but he played scared HERE after his injury. Why should I concern myself what he's doing THERE? What he's doing somewhere else, how he's back to pre-injury form, G-R-E-A-T; but that and a handful of pennies won't get me on the subway. It's irrelevant now. More Cotchery, please - and after we see what sort of foundation is forming over the course of the season, look to a deep threat next year. Besides, this is the year we throw out every schmoe there is on field and find our diamonds in the rough - WHICH IS WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE LAST YEAR WHEN THE SEASON WAS LOST TO US, BUT SUCH IS LIFE. It's a new regime, expect to lose, but we'll lose "productively", and I'm good with that.

[124]

What games did Coles have a chance to break?

What has their careers shown you? Coles > Moss. Moss had a running game, was on a good team, with a decent enough QB. Coles has always outperformed him aside from the season where he had 5 different QBs throwing him the ball and a dead running game. Plus, Coles is tougher than sideline santana.

I'll be here all night folks.

If he was so great he'd put up 1,000 yards. Period.

[Barton]

If he was so great he'd put up 1,000 yards. Period.

How many yards did Santana Moss have in the Jets playoff team in 2004?

Unlike Moss, Coles actually produces without a good QB. And has had back to back 1200 yard seasons, Moss has never done that.

845 yards with 5 different QBs is solid, give the guy a break, Moss would have gotten 500 yards and more sideline appearances than our kicker if he would have been on last years team, the soft pu55y.

[124]

How many yards did Santana Moss have in the Jets playoff team in 2004?

Unlike Moss, Coles actually produces without a good QB. And has had back to back 1200 yard seasons, Moss has never done that.

845 yards with 5 different QBs is solid, give the guy a break, Moss would have gotten 500 yards and more sideline appearances than our kicker if he would have been on last years team, the soft pu55y.

Are you trying to tell me that Mark Brunell is a good QB?

You can say he's consistently decent, but nothing close to good anymore.

[Smizzy]

He didn't do squat here. His contract was up and wanted #1 money. He is not a #1 WR.

He played well for the first half of the season....and was damn near invisible the 2nd half.

Ps...You miss Moss but Jordan is an overrated bum? LOL

[harris5214]

brunell was a better QB than anybody QB on our team last year, you really think moss wouldve put 1000+ yards on our team last year?

[Ten]

If he was so great he'd put up 1,000 yards. Period.

Sorry but it's just plain daft to think that anyone could gain 1000 yards in our offense last year.You realise that Santana,who you've said is a better receiver,would of probably of had less yards than Coles gained if he was in our offense.

Coles has had the bad luck of playing in the 2nd worst passing offense for two years in a row over two different teams,It's funny how the people who claim is Coles is done forget this little gem.Once/if our passing game gets better,Coles will have no problem reaching 1000 yards.

I have to agree with Barton as well. Coles>Moss

While Moss is more capable of the home run,the only two things he can do better than Coles is the long ball and screens.And that's only when the defense doesn't pay Moss attension.Last season was like 2003 but on a much bigger scale.Moss broke out and got the highlight plays at the start of the season,but once teams started paying the extra attension to him he was shut down.He had something like 7 100 yard games in the first 8 games,but only 1 100 yard game in the last 8 games.

[Sperm Edwards]

This is ALL silly. If you're going to play "what should have been" why do it half-assed? Here is the REAL bottom line:

Coles AND Moss should be our two starting WR's.

Instead, that money went to Pennington (whose presence behind center relegated burner Moss to possession receiver which he's ill-suited for) and Justin McCariens. Between the two of them we've paid like $30M just in bonus money alone since August '03.

Forget whether you think Moss deserved to be paid like a #1. The reality is there isn't THAT much of a difference betwen FA contracts for #2 WR's and #1 WR's - not like other positions - since they're both starters. Moss' "blockbuster" contract with Washington (excluding the last voidable year) is 5 years/$26.5M with $11M guaranteed over the first 2 years. Avg cap hit = $5.3M. We gave McCariens a contract for 7 years/$31M with $7M guaranteed. Avg cap hit = $4.4M. So enough about not being able to afford Moss. His cap hit is $1M/yr different from McCariens - who'd done FAR less on the field at the time of his signing than had Moss. The result of the Coles/Moss trade has led us to pay Coles more money than we declined to pay before Washington stole him. Shrewd negotiator, that Bradway.

So you want to REALLY play "what might have been"? Then do away with the stupid new/extension contracts given to Chad, Martin, Chrebet, & McCareins:

QB - (Who knows who? Pinto-gton certainly wasn't the answer anyway.)

HB - Jordan

WR1 - Coles

WR2 - Moss

If you're stubborn enough to STILL think we would've had a tough time cap-wise with them, consider this: if not for letting Coles go (we thought $10M was too much guaranteed money to give him), we never would've had the draft pick ammunition to trade up for DRob - who we then gave $11M guaranteed money to, not including the $2M roster bonus we just gave him in the spring this year as part of that same contract. Plus we would've had our high 2nd-rounder back instead of McCariens in 2004's draft as well as the picks we traded away to get DRob in the first place.

There was plenty of cap room for all these players. Viva Bradway!

• Pennington
  
• Martin
  
• Coles
  
• McCariens
  
• Chrebet
  
• DRob
  

instead of

• ? at QB
  
• Jordan
  
• Moss
  
• Coles (instead of Wash's #1 in 2003 that we traded for DRob)
  
• 1st-round pick in 2003 (traded for DRob)
  
• 4th-round pick in 2003 (traded for DRob)
  
• 2nd-round pick in 2004 (traded for JMac)
  
• AND more cap room available in both 2006 and 2007
  

Friggin imbecile.

You wonder how some teams can keep getting or re-signing high-priced players without "paying the piper" capwise?

• They don't give a pair of #3 receivers starter money each.
  
• They don't give a $64M contract with $22M guaranteed to a weak-armed QB who's never played a full season 4 years into his career.
  
• They don't give $46M contracts with $13M+ in bonus money to 29 year-old RB's.
  
• They don't trade three draft picks (including two first-rounders) and a $15-20M differential in cap room (over the life of the rookie contracts) for a short DT who was considered maybe the #20 player in a weak draft class 3-4 mos before the draft.
  

So enough of the "which one should we have had" discussion between Coles & Moss. We drafted both. Both had productive seasons for us under their rookie contracts so it's not like Joe Horn's surprise explosion from KC to NO. We should still have both. And much, much more.

[124]

He didn't do squat here. His contract was up and wanted #1 money. He is not a #1 WR.

He played well for the first half of the season....and was damn near invisible the 2nd half.

Ps...You miss Moss but Jordan is an overrated bum? LOL

Jordan was an over-rated bum and still is. Santana Moss is a game breaking WR who also brought us Punt Return ability. Did you all enjoy Miller and McCareins back there last season? Field position is criticle.

I like both Coles & Moss, but if you were to ask me now after seeing what Moss did after he got out of Herm's reign, I'd take Moss. This time last year, Coles, eaisly. But now, life after Herm, Moss.

Oh and Sperm, I agree, both Coles & Moss should be here today. Would've been great to keep those 2 together.

[#27TheDominator]

I wouldn't go so far as to say Moss is better than Coles, but what he brings to the game is harder to replace. I didn't hate the deal because I think Coles is a little better, but if Coles was coming here because he loved it and missed Penny then why did we have to redo his previously too huge to match contract? I wish we'd have kept both. Moss might not have had 1000 yards with last years offense, but I bet he'd have had more TDs than Coles.

[124]

I wouldn't go so far as to say Moss is better than Coles, but what he brings to the game is harder to replace.

[PatsFanTX]

Boy we should've never let him go. I love LC but Santana would've shined under the new offense that Mangini is going to install I believe.

Boy letting Santana go was a mistake.

It was not a mistake letting him go.

Moss thrives in a vertical passing game where he can utilize his speed to get open downfield.

When he was with the Jets, he did not have a QB capable of getting him the ball downfield.

He was pretty much useless in the Jets "dump and dink" WCO because that type of offense looks for yardage after the catch. Moss would head straight for the sidelines after the catch.

And if you seriously think Mangini is going to install a vertical passing offense with the Jets this season, you will be sadly mistaken.

Jets are far better off with Coles instead of Moss.

[Sperm Edwards]

It was not a mistake letting him go.

Moss thrives in a vertical passing game where he can utilize his speed to get open downfield.

When he was with the Jets, he did not have a QB capable of getting him the ball downfield.

He was pretty much useless in the Jets "dump and dink" WCO because that type of offense looks for yardage after the catch. Moss would head straight for the sidelines after the catch.

And if you seriously think Mangini is going to install a vertical passing offense with the Jets this season, you will be sadly mistaken.

Jets are far better off with Coles instead of Moss.

We don't have Coles instead of Moss. We have McCariens instead of Moss.

[rajensen088]

Sorry but it's just plain daft to think that anyone could gain 1000 yards in our offense last year.You realise that Santana,who you've said is a better receiver,would of probably of had less yards than Coles gained if he was in our offense.

Coles has had the bad luck of playing in the 2nd worst passing offense for two years in a row over two different teams,It's funny how the people who claim is Coles is done forget this little gem.Once/if our passing game gets better,Coles will have no problem reaching 1000 yards.

I have to agree with Barton as well. Coles>Moss

While Moss is more capable of the home run,the only two things he can do better than Coles is the long ball and screens.And that's only when the defense doesn't pay Moss attension.Last season was like 2003 but on a much bigger scale.Moss broke out and got the highlight plays at the start of the season,but once teams started paying the extra attension to him he was shut down.He had something like 7 100 yard games in the first 8 games,but only 1 100 yard game in the last 8 games.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235234/gamelogs/2005

Had his most productive game Dec 24th vs the Giants. 160 yds, 3TD's (most TD's in any game that year).

Finished up vs the Seahawks with a 100+ yard game and a TD.

The Jets should have both Santana Moss and Laverneous Coles. It was Bradway and Tannenbaums awful handling of Coles tender offer that broke up that terrific duo when the Redskins robbed him from Bradway/Tannenbaum.

The Jets added the Coles first round pick plus their own and a 4th on DeWayne Robertson, says it all.

[Ten]

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235234/gamelogs/2005

Had his most productive game in Dec vs the Giants. 163 yds, 3TD's.

Finished up vs the Seahawks with a 150 yard game.

Ahh so his one 100 yard game in the last 8 games was the game was against Will Allen.You'll remember in that game that Allen played like a complete spaz and fell down on a few of Moss big plays.

Also IIRC most of Moss yards came when the Skins were down by a few scores.I think he also dropped a TD in that game.

[johnny green balls]

Good point - Moss would have just been another bad Bradway pick had he stuck around. I have a feeling Coles will do very well with this coaching staff.

scary point; maybe bradway didn't make bad picks, maybe the jets ruined good ones.

[KSJets]

Ahh so his one 100 yard game in the last 8 games was the game was against Will Allen.You'll remember in that game that Allen played like a complete spaz and fell down on a few of Moss big plays.

Also IIRC most of Moss yards came when the Skins were down by a few scores.I think he also dropped a TD in that game.

What's funny is that Raj just edited his post to include the correct yardage. Nice going Raj. Post a link to a page full of stats and then get them wrong in your post.

Also, he forgot to include this gem:

@ TB on 1/7: 2 catches, 18 yards

Really productive that day.

Or how about this stat that you left out Raj:

Until that Giants' game, he had gone 8 straight games without cracking 100 yards, not even getting 80 yards (he got 79 twice and then the other six games were all under 75 yards). Then he finished up with 83 yards in the regular season finale against the Eagles.

He also had a total of five 100 yard games during the regular season (the Seattle game was in the playoffs). Four came at the beginning of the year (4 out of 5 weeks) and then he tailed off until the next to last game against the Giants.

So yeah, I think the post you had quoted was very accurate. He was on fire in the beginning of the season, but tailed off considerably at the end of the year.

[Sperm Edwards]

What's funny is that Raj just edited his post to include the correct yardage. Nice going Raj. Post a link to a page full of stats and then get them wrong in your post.

Also, he forgot to include this gem:

@ TB on 1/7: 2 catches, 18 yards

Really productive that day.

Or how about this stat that you left out Raj:

Until that Giants' game, he had gone 8 straight games without cracking 100 yards, not even getting 80 yards (he got 79 twice and then the other six games were all under 75 yards). Then he finished up with 83 yards in the regular season finale against the Eagles.

He also had a total of five 100 yard games during the regular season (the Seattle game was in the playoffs). Four came at the beginning of the year (4 out of 5 weeks) and then he tailed off until the next to last game against the Giants.

So yeah, I think the post you had quoted was very accurate. He was on fire in the beginning of the season, but tailed off considerably at the end of the year.

haha

I also noticed he threw in "and Tannenbaum" in there as though it was as much (or at all) MT's decision to let Coles go after 2002.

I hardly think Moss was the problem in the 2nd half. We stopped passing the ball > 8 yds until Herm announced to the country that we were going to before the NE game. Moss had an alligator-arm play that led to a pick, but Pennington & Herm did enough damage on their own without it.

[jetophile]

Santana Moss is a game breaking WR who also brought us Punt Return ability.

Yes, and his East/West runs as opposed to running upfield NORTH were just a-w-e-s-o-m-e.

Listen, I loved the guy pre-injury, but he wasn't the same player HERE, the operative word being HERE before he left HERE, you know, this team, this place, HERE. Scaredy Smurf.

What really is the point of how great he's doing anywhere else but HERE? Why don't we start singing the praises of that other midget, Dedric Ward, while we're at it? It isn't productive, generally. Our team was so decimated that Jerry Rice in his prime couldn't have helped us last year. Bollinger taking four steps back as opposed to seven and throwing the ball into the faces of the defense (something he was being trained out of - sort of), ugh, everything. It's just a useless debate in the here and the now.

[Sperm Edwards]

Yes, and his East/West runs as opposed to running upfield NORTH were just a-w-e-s-o-m-e.

Listen, I loved the guy pre-injury, but he wasn't the same player HERE, the operative word being HERE before he left HERE, you know, this team, this place, HERE. Scaredy Smurf.

What really is the point of how great he's doing anywhere else but HERE? Why don't we start singing the praises of that other midget, Dedric Ward, while we're at it? It isn't productive, generally. Our team was so decimated that Jerry Rice in his prime couldn't have helped us last year. Bollinger taking four steps back as opposed to seven and throwing the ball into the faces of the defense (something he was being trained out of - sort of), ugh, everything. It's just a useless debate in the here and the now.

Here at JetNation we aim to please. Please supply us with a list of acceptable topics to discuss. Also please provide a list of topics you deem unacceptable & counterproductive to the work we seek to accomplish here on a free message board.

Thanks in advance,

Sperm

hee-hee. Dedric Ward.

[Maxman]

This is ALL silly. If you're going to play "what should have been" why do it half-assed? Here is the REAL bottom line:

Coles AND Moss should be our two starting WR's.

Instead, that money went to Pennington (whose presence behind center relegated burner Moss to possession receiver which he's ill-suited for) and Justin McCariens. Between the two of them we've paid like $30M just in bonus money alone since August '03.

Forget whether you think Moss deserved to be paid like a #1. The reality is there isn't THAT much of a difference betwen FA contracts for #2 WR's and #1 WR's - not like other positions - since they're both starters. Moss' "blockbuster" contract with Washington (excluding the last voidable year) is 5 years/$26.5M with $11M guaranteed over the first 2 years. Avg cap hit = $5.3M. We gave McCariens a contract for 7 years/$31M with $7M guaranteed. Avg cap hit = $4.4M. So enough about not being able to afford Moss. His cap hit is $1M/yr different from McCariens - who'd done FAR less on the field at the time of his signing than had Moss. The result of the Coles/Moss trade has led us to pay Coles more money than we declined to pay before Washington stole him. Shrewd negotiator, that Bradway.

So you want to REALLY play "what might have been"? Then do away with the stupid new/extension contracts given to Chad, Martin, Chrebet, & McCareins:

QB - (Who knows who? Pinto-gton certainly wasn't the answer anyway.)

HB - Jordan

WR1 - Coles

WR2 - Moss

If you're stubborn enough to STILL think we would've had a tough time cap-wise with them, consider this: if not for letting Coles go (we thought $10M was too much guaranteed money to give him), we never would've had the draft pick ammunition to trade up for DRob - who we then gave $11M guaranteed money to, not including the $2M roster bonus we just gave him in the spring this year as part of that same contract. Plus we would've had our high 2nd-rounder back instead of McCariens in 2004's draft as well as the picks we traded away to get DRob in the first place.

There was plenty of cap room for all these players. Viva Bradway!

• Pennington
  
• Martin
  
• Coles
  
• McCariens
  
• Chrebet
  
• DRob

instead of

• ? at QB
  
• Jordan
  
• Moss
  
• Coles (instead of Wash's #1 in 2003 that we traded for DRob)
  
• 1st-round pick in 2003 (traded for DRob)
  
• 4th-round pick in 2003 (traded for DRob)
  
• 2nd-round pick in 2004 (traded for JMac)
  
• AND more cap room available in both 2006 and 2007

Friggin imbecile.

You wonder how some teams can keep getting or re-signing high-priced players without "paying the piper" capwise?

• They don't give a pair of #3 receivers starter money each.
  
• They don't give a $64M contract with $22M guaranteed to a weak-armed QB who's never played a full season 4 years into his career.
  
• They don't give $46M contracts with $13M+ in bonus money to 29 year-old RB's.
  
• They don't trade three draft picks (including two first-rounders) and a $15-20M differential in cap room (over the life of the rookie contracts) for a short DT who was considered maybe the #20 player in a weak draft class 3-4 mos before the draft.

So enough of the "which one should we have had" discussion between Coles & Moss. We drafted both. Both had productive seasons for us under their rookie contracts so it's not like Joe Horn's surprise explosion from KC to NO. We should still have both. And much, much more.

POTW NOM. This should be the POTW. It is well thought out, I can't dispute any of it and it looks pretty on my monitor. What more could you ask for?

[johnny green balls]

POTW NOM. This should be the POTW. It is well thought out, I can't dispute any of it and it looks pretty on my monitor. What more could you ask for?

too bad the average poster here will give up on the post when there's no homo jokes in the first 4 lines.

[shutout]

too bad the average poster here will give up on the post when there's no homo jokes in the first 4 lines.

4 lines??? What a crock....

if its not in the first 5 words,forget it.

[jetophile]

Here at JetNation we aim to please. Please supply us with a list of acceptable topics to discuss. Also please provide a list of topics you deem unacceptable & counterproductive to the work we seek to accomplish here on a free message board.

Thanks in advance,

Sperm

hee-hee. Dedric Ward.

HAH, no, it's all good. :wink: I'm about set to pull out my arm hair just to divert myself from the discomfort of the weather. It's hot as hell and I'm grumpy as all get out. Yep. TC will be starting soon, though. Holy Cr*p, KO already.

[Sperm Edwards]

HAH, no, it's all good. :wink: I'm about set to pull out my arm hair just to divert myself from the discomfort of the weather. It's hot as hell and I'm grumpy as all get out. Yep. TC will be starting soon, though. Holy Cr*p, KO already.

[PeterNorth09]

Coles > S.Moss

They are two very different receivers. Coles is a possession reciever, Moss is a big play guy. Moss has more speed and upside while Coles is a guy who can consistently give you 70-80 yards a game and help you move the chains.

Herman Edwards was the reason why Moss didn't become a superstar. He needs to be in a vertical offense and the ultra-conservative Edwards regime never let him play.

[#27TheDominator]

One other thing to remember: Moss was a very dangerous punt returner. Sure, sometimes he just ran out of bounds, but so did Franco Harris. Coles was a fairly feeble kick returner and gave it up. We did have some problems with punt returns last year, didn't we?