Nick Ferraro Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 The Jets need a RB and an upgrade at WR. Denver needs a DE. Broncos send Tatum Bell and Ashley Lelie to NY for Shaun Ellis and a third-round pick. What say the Nation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 We are thin on the line to begin with without trading Ellis Lelie is a underachiever in his career- that trade pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenBeans Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I'd say no thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I don't think we could absorb the hit. Over the past 2 years we've given Ellis something like $15M in bonus money. We'd take the hit on something like $11M of that plus we'd have to give Lelie (who couldn't beat out a 36 year-old or a gimp) the #1 receiver money he wants (minimum $8-9M SB). Then we'd be left shopping for a veteran 290+ lb DE to start 16 games in a 3-4 defense, assuming such a creature is available to us. So review: $11M in dead cap space $9M to another #2 WR with a history of dropsies from a QB who doesn't throw fastballs Hole at DE Tatum Bell is still a prospect (a talented one) who couldn't beat out Mike Anderson & won't have Denver's gigantic OL holes to run through this year. A good thought but I think it weakens the team, particularly after this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjets Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 wuch you talkin bout willis.... NO WAY... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.I.MikeBleedsGreen Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 That's a Negative ,on that trade ,I'll Pass for now thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Ferraro Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 I don't think we could absorb the hit. Over the past 2 years we've given Ellis something like $15M in bonus money. We'd take the hit on something like $11M of that plus we'd have to give Lelie (who couldn't beat out a 36 year-old or a gimp) the #1 receiver money he wants (minimum $8-9M SB). Then we'd be left shopping for a veteran 290+ lb DE to start 16 games in a 3-4 defense, assuming such a creature is available to us. So review: $11M in dead cap space $9M to another #2 WR with a history of dropsies from a QB who doesn't throw fastballs Hole at DE Tatum Bell is still a prospect (a talented one) who couldn't beat out Mike Anderson & won't have Denver's gigantic OL holes to run through this year. A good thought but I think it weakens the team, particularly after this year. You don't take a cap hit if you trade the guy. You take the hit if you cut him. Lelie is under contract. He is not holding out for money. He is holding out for #1 status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 You don't take a cap hit if you trade the guy. You take the hit if you cut him. Lelie is under contract. He is not holding out for money. He is holding out for #1 status. Nick... That is not the way it works. You take the hit either way. If he is not on the team all that money gets acelerated to this season. Besides the Jets are very shaky on the DL. They are shaky in several other spots as well. But I think they are just going to wait it out and address the skill positions in next years draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 If, like all the fans and writers are predicting, this season doesn't mean a lick, why would we try to go out and get a used back as opposed to just making it through the season and waiting for the draft. Personally, I think the three RBs we have could rotate in and out for the first few weeks until we see one emerge. There is a something in those guys, we just need to find it. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 There is a something in those guys, we just need to find it. BZ Those guys are all nice guys. And you could make the case that they would all be good second backs. None of them is a starting quality back though. The Jets next starting back is not currently on the team. BUt I would just ride it out this year regardless. Replace the skill position players next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alk Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I think the Broncos would have to be complete idiots to take that trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 i say we draft Michael Bush or Adrian Peterson next April Cedric houston and Blaylock can fight it out for '06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I think the Broncos would have to be complete idiots to take that trade. you know alot more about complete idiocy than I ever would so I won't doubt you there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.I.MikeBleedsGreen Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 i say we draft Michael Bush or Adrian Peterson next April Cedric houston and Blaylock can fight it out for '06 Agreed ,either one would be Nice for us,good call BO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 You don't take a cap hit if you trade the guy. You take the hit if you cut him. Not true. The reason for the cap hit has nothing to do with the reason he's no longer on the team. All that matters is that he isn't there. Otherwise there would be teams trading 10 players every year to avoid the cap hit for releasing him. The Redskins absorbed a $9M cap hit in 2005 when they traded Coles to us. The point is this: whatever you pay the player & he keeps must come off the salary cap of the team who gave it to him. When we give a player a big SB, that bonus $ gets spread equally over the length of the contract. For example a 5 year contract with a $15M SB up front would take $3M off the cap each year for 5 years (in addition to salary, roster bonuses & incentive bonuses, should any exist). After the first year, $3M of that $15M has counted against the cap. So $12M must still come off the cap. In year two, another $3M comes off, leaving $9M left to come off over the next 3 years. If the life of the contract is allowed to run out, wonderful; $3M/yr. But if the player isn't on the team anymore, and the reason why matters not, the rest of that yet-to-come-off money accelerates forward to right-now (or as you're likely familiar with, you can spread the right-now over two years if the player's let go after June 1st). But it doesn't matter why. You gave the player $15M then $15M must come off the cap eventually. Nothing other than the player giving the money back can avoid that cap hit - not even the player's death, which happened with a Raiders player in 1998. Leon Bender was drafted & received a $1.2M SB then died less than a month later. Guess what - the $1.2M had to come off the Raiders' salary cap even though training camp hadn't started before his death. So if death doesn't allow you to escape the cap hit of a SB, a trade certainly won't. Lelie is under contract. He is not holding out for money. He is holding out for #1 status. I don't think anyone "holds out" until a coach names him the #1 WR. That would be the first time I've ever heard of that. A player may choose one team over another for that reason, but no one holds out of TC because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Tatum Bell for a 3rd or 4th round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Nothing other than the player giving the money back can avoid that cap hit - not even the player's death, which happened with a Raiders player in 1998. Leon Bender was drafted & received a $1.2M SB then died less than a month later. Guess what - the $1.2M had to come off the Raiders' salary cap even though training camp hadn't started before his death. So if death doesn't allow you to escape the cap hit of a SB, a trade certainly won't. Is this why nobody signs their draft picks until the day before camp nowadays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 You don't take a cap hit if you trade the guy. You take the hit if you cut him. Lelie is under contract. He is not holding out for money. He is holding out for #1 status. #1 status = $$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Is this why nobody signs their draft picks until the day before camp nowadays? Never thought of that, but I don't think so. Bender's situation was special & Oakland knew it when they drafted him 31st in the country. I remember when it happened b/c we drafted another player from that same school's DL a few picks later (Dorian Boose). Really sad story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hasty Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 The Jets need a RB and an upgrade at WR. Denver needs a DE. Broncos send Tatum Bell and Ashley Lelie to NY for Shaun Ellis and a third-round pick. What say the Nation? Horrible trade for the Jets. If we still had Abraham, Ellis may have been expendable but our line falls apart without him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 If we do that trade, a Def. Line of Robertson, Thomas, and co. does not sound like it will putr much pressue on the Q/B. Pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Not true. The reason for the cap hit has nothing to do with the reason he's no longer on the team. All that matters is that he isn't there. Otherwise there would be teams trading 10 players every year to avoid the cap hit for releasing him. The Redskins absorbed a $9M cap hit in 2005 when they traded Coles to us. The point is this: whatever you pay the player & he keeps must come off the salary cap of the team who gave it to him. When we give a player a big SB, that bonus $ gets spread equally over the length of the contract. For example a 5 year contract with a $15M SB up front would take $3M off the cap each year for 5 years (in addition to salary, roster bonuses & incentive bonuses, should any exist). After the first year, $3M of that $15M has counted against the cap. So $12M must still come off the cap. In year two, another $3M comes off, leaving $9M left to come off over the next 3 years. If the life of the contract is allowed to run out, wonderful; $3M/yr. But if the player isn't on the team anymore, and the reason why matters not, the rest of that yet-to-come-off money accelerates forward to right-now (or as you're likely familiar with, you can spread the right-now over two years if the player's let go after June 1st). But it doesn't matter why. You gave the player $15M then $15M must come off the cap eventually. Nothing other than the player giving the money back can avoid that cap hit - not even the player's death, which happened with a Raiders player in 1998. Leon Bender was drafted & received a $1.2M SB then died less than a month later. Guess what - the $1.2M had to come off the Raiders' salary cap even though training camp hadn't started before his death. So if death doesn't allow you to escape the cap hit of a SB, a trade certainly won't. I don't think anyone "holds out" until a coach names him the #1 WR. That would be the first time I've ever heard of that. A player may choose one team over another for that reason, but no one holds out of TC because of it. I already addressed this on page 1. Now you are being both a ball hog and a show off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I'm all for playing the hand we have at the RB position...so we may suck; like some here, I would address that position in next years draft. Let's get our lines playing in sinc (maybe get another NT since Poo poo is lost when teams start cutting players) and build from there. RB is a luxury this team can wait on. You don't start buying furniture before you build your house...our O and D lines are the house we're trying to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I already addressed this on page 1. Now you are being both a ball hog and a show off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I feel like Pippen. I can score as well. Geez that Nike deal went straight to your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Nike deal? Max you got me a **** deal with Reebok...WTF!:Cuss: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I feel like Pippen. I can score as well. Geez that Nike deal went straight to your head. Air Pippens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Air Maxmans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNorth09 Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 The Jets need a RB and an upgrade at WR. Denver needs a DE. Broncos send Tatum Bell and Ashley Lelie to NY for Shaun Ellis and a third-round pick. What say the Nation? Don't like the trade. I know Ellis had an off-year last year but he is a better player than either Bell or overrated Ashley Lelie. Jets could easily get someone like Michael Bush in next year's draft anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bman Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Why on EARTH, would you ever trade the only good DE on the team? Jets need to grab a starting caliber NT and RB.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSFAN5180 Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 IF we still had ABE id say yes.As we speak i say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr nyjet Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 The Jets need a RB and an upgrade at WR. Denver needs a DE. Broncos send Tatum Bell and Ashley Lelie to NY for Shaun Ellis and a third-round pick. What say the Nation? i'd rather trade noodle arm and robertson for cutler. but, shanny is not that stupid. he would not want noodle arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 i'd rather trade noodle arm and robertson for cutler. but, shanny is not that stupid. he would not want noodle arm. the real question is would we trade Dbrick for Cutler? Cause they could have just taken the QB at 4... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Ferraro Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 IF we still had ABE id say yes.As we speak i say no. I think this is the best response to this question as of yet. The trade basically is Lelie for a 3rd-rounder and ellis for Bell. That's pretty solid for both sides, but if it leaves the Jets with no hope of pressuring the QB, than I guess you'd have to say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 The Jets need a RB and an upgrade at WR. Denver needs a DE. Broncos send Tatum Bell and Ashley Lelie to NY for Shaun Ellis and a third-round pick. What say the Nation? 2 word response: "Salary Cap" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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