A Jet fan's Lament

[Tinstar2]

Presently,the 2 most desperate needs on the Jets team are RB and DT/NT.During the 3rd round of the past NFL draft,Jerious Norwood and Gabe Watson were available for the picking.

We got a Boar hunting LBer and a smart safety who can't run.

Marc Magna and Steve Rosga all over again.

[KSJets]

The draft is over. Move on.

[Tinstar2]

Are you kidding.Herman Edwards left before the draft,and every day there's a Herman Edwards thread .He has no connection to the Jets anymore,but these 2 will be around for atleast 3 more yrs.b

[KSJets]

Maybe if it's a situation like Bryan Thomas over Ed Reed, then we can lament over the picks...in a few years. No rookie has played a down yet (I don't count preseason) so there's no way to know if Norwood or Watson will be any good. If they turn out to be a stud RB or DT in a few years, then lament all you want. There's just no point in doing it before they've played a game.

[Tinstar2]

If you ever saw either player excell,then you would not have to wait .Compared to what we got,those 2 guys were all stars.We got 2 2nd day picks on the 1st day,and Atlanta is talking about trading us their former 1st round RB because of Norwoods progress thus far.Gabe Watson with a little motivation is exactly what a team switching to the 34 defense needs.

Motivation ,isn't that something that's important to a HC.

[KSJets]

Whatever, they haven't done **** yet. But you go and lament.

[jetophile]

Lament? I thought this was a thread where we beat our breasts in grief and tear out our eyebrows in true classical Roman fashion. Damn it, why am I so naive!

[StraightCash]

Presently,the 2 most desperate needs on the Jets team are RB and DT/NT.During the 3rd round of the past NFL draft,Jerious Norwood and Gabe Watson were available for the picking.

We got a Boar hunting LBer and a smart safety who can't run.

Marc Magna and Steve Rosga all over again.

*Yawn* whatever you say raje... i mean tinstar

[Sperm Edwards]

Tinstar clearly was sad to see Herm go, but he isn't close to jensen. Tinstar is (still) a Jets fan. And to be honest, I agree with him.

I had no objection to Schlegel or Smith at all. I objected to taking them with day-one picks. Whether Watson or Norwood turn into starters or busts remains to be seen. Even if Schlegel & Smith turn into studs - we could've still had them & two other day-one talents on top of that; it wasn't them OR others. Basically we got Pociask instead of Watson/Norwood since Smith would've been available then; lots of people had him pegged as not being drafted at all.

It's analagous to us taking Clemens with the 29th pick. Even if he's a superstar it doesn't matter - burning the 29th pick in the country wasn't necessary to get that player.

[Ten]

The chances of a 3rd round nose tackle actualy doing anything in his first season is very slim.Gabe Watson wouldn't help our run defense this year.

[rajensen088]

Presently,the 2 most desperate needs on the Jets team are RB and DT/NT.During the 3rd round of the past NFL draft,Jerious Norwood and Gabe Watson were available for the picking.

We got a Boar hunting LBer and a smart safety who can't run.

Marc Magna and Steve Rosga all over again.

NT and RB and QB issues were known the day Tannenbaum hired his best friend, a failed Patriot DC as HC of the NYJ. So what was this 'we have a plan' mantra about. What plan?

[Preston Howley III]

Although I wasn't too ecstatic about it, the plan was to use Pouha as a NT, but he's out for the season with an injury. NT wasn't addressed in the draft, that is true.

But once again, it all goes back to Herm. From 2001 to 2003, he bleated about his "3 teqnique" DT, and Bradway traded away the farm to get the next Warren Sapp, Rerun Robertson.

A year later, the "3 teqnique" DT became obsolete when Herm hired Donnie Henderson, in yet another damage control maneuver.

So here we are, stuck with a shtty NT and no backup. The O-line was a priority in the draft and that was addressed. Gabe Watson? You putting him in Canton, already?

[Preston Howley III]

NT and RB and QB issues were known

So was O-line, Lia.

You think Tannenbaum and Mangini can fix five years of Herm and Bradway's blunders in one draft?

[Sperm Edwards]

Moses obviously Lia thinks only Herm is an expert at offensive & defensive lines. Just look at how much Herm has adapted over there. Best O-line in the league sucks, with known upcoming retirements of two tackles unaddressed? Check. NFL's #7 rush defense now making Wali Lundy & Brandon Jacobs look like Bo Jackson? Check.

At least his beloved Cover-2 is working like a charm. CB's have well learned, at all costs, to STAY AWAY from the WR's.

The KC offense collapsing was easy to see. When we heard reports out of camp that the defense was outplaying the offense badly - yes, that's the crappy Chiefs defense outplaying the league's #1 offense - you knew that something was rotten on the grill.

[faba]

Gabe Watson had a mediocre senior year so that dropped him in the draft. Also agree a rookie DT most likely is not going to excel in the NFL. Have to wait a couple of years to see if we blew the middle round picks or not.

[Preston Howley III]

What's the story with Titus Adams? Is this guy even making the team?

[Tinstar2]

Although I wasn't too ecstatic about it, the plan was to use Pouha as a NT, but he's out for the season with an injury. NT wasn't addressed in the draft, that is true.

But once again, it all goes back to Herm. From 2001 to 2003, he bleated about his "3 teqnique" DT, and Bradway traded away the farm to get the next Warren Sapp, Rerun Robertson.

A year later, the "3 teqnique" DT became obsolete when Herm hired Donnie Henderson, in yet another damage control maneuver.

So here we are, stuck with a shtty NT and no backup. The O-line was a priority in the draft and that was addressed. Gabe Watson? You putting him in Canton, already?

Look Moses,I`m not putting anyone anywhere.Both the players in question have talent that far exceed the players we drafted in the 3rd round.The RB excelled at Mississippi State,and thus far has done quite well showcasing his talents on the pro circuit even if it's in meaningless pre-season games.As Far as Gabe Watson goes,he is excatly the same as the player who now patrols the middle of the Patriots defensive line.Both Players suffered through poor senior campaigns and were consideredas slackers.Both Players have the talent that comes out when motivated.The Pats under Belichek and Mangini got Wilfork to exhibit his potential.Why couldn't mangini and his staff do the same with Watson.The Jets once passed on another DT who many said was a fat lazy turd with motivational issues .That player fell in the draft because of those reports,and the fact that he had a high ankle injury that kept him from working out at the combines due to the brace he was wearing at the time.Shaun Rodgers is now an elite DT in the NFL.

If a Player has talent,getting that talent to surface is the job of the coach.Taking a player with no talent and hoping to maximize what little talent he has ,is what keeps teams from getting to that next level.Watson had 1st round talent,and could have been had in the 3rd round.Instead we got a boar hunter.We already had a safety who maximized what little talent he had with a strong knowledge of the game in Eric Coleman.Now we have another in Smith.Give me a Kerry Rhodes anyday over those type of players.

If you have talent and excell iat the college level,you have the chance to be a great to solid pro.If you have no talent and excelled at the college level,you have a chance to be remembered as a great to solid college football player.Watson and Norwood have talent,and were available in round 3.Hell,we drafted those 2 mooks,and Brad Smith and Washington the 2 players we took 1 round later are much more talented both as collegeians and as pros.

I thought the days of Marc Magna and SAteve Rosga were over.Hell,even Bradway realized drafting players like derek Pagel is a waste of time.

[Tinstar2]

The chances of a 3rd round nose tackle actualy doing anything in his first season is very slim.Gabe Watson wouldn't help our run defense this year.

Everyone and their Mother think the Jets are going to suck this coming season,so what does it matter.If they took that kid,it would have given them 1 season to work on motivating him towards exhibitting his vast potential.That`s what the Pats did with Vince Wilfork,and look what they got for their trouble.You either have talent or you don't.Not 1 fan on this site can tell you that Gabe Watson doesn't have the talent.The problem is getting him to perform down in and down out.That myfriend is the job of the coach,his position coach and his HC.

[#27TheDominator]

Everyone and their Mother think the Jets are going to suck this coming season,so what does it matter.If they took that kid,it would have given them 1 season to work on motivating him towards exhibitting his vast potential.That`s what the Pats did with Vince Wilfork,and look what they got for their trouble.You either have talent or you don't.Not 1 fan on this site can tell you that Gabe Watson doesn't have the talent.The problem is getting him to perform down in and down out.That myfriend is the job of the coach,his position coach and his HC.

Not that I think that they shouldn't have picked them over Schlegel/Smith, but a rookie HC, particularly a young one that is looking to instill a "tough" system in place of an "easy" one has to consider that these slackers can make it difficult to keep the other players with the program. That is the last thing Mangini could deal with this at this point. Team mutiny is always a bad thing, but it certainly is a serious possibility in a situation like this. Also, NT might be a position best addressed through FA. Who is available next year?

[SoFlaJets]

Not that I think that they shouldn't have picked them over Schlegel/Smith, but a rookie HC, particularly a young one that is looking to instill a "tough" system in place of an "easy" one has to consider that these slackers can make it difficult to keep the other players with the program. That is the last thing Mangini could deal with this at this point. Team mutiny is always a bad thing, but it certainly is a serious possibility in a situation like this. Also, NT might be a position best addressed through FA. Who is available next year?

I don't know Ball and Tui played pretty good in mop up duty

[Ten]

Everyone and their Mother think the Jets are going to suck this coming season,so what does it matter.If they took that kid,it would have given them 1 season to work on motivating him towards exhibitting his vast potential.That`s what the Pats did with Vince Wilfork,and look what they got for their trouble.You either have talent or you don't.Not 1 fan on this site can tell you that Gabe Watson doesn't have the talent.The problem is getting him to perform down in and down out.That myfriend is the job of the coach,his position coach and his HC.

You also realise that Sione Pohua has all the tools and the potential to be great nose tackle?

It would also probably take more than a year for him to turn into a starter(Wilfork took one year and he's not even that good a starter),we'd be looking at two to three years before he develops.So you're basicly wanting a 3 year plan to fix an imediate problem.

I would of liked to of seen nose tackle addressed this offseason,but i wanted it addresed in free agency.Get somehelp at the position straight away and then look to develop a younger guy.I'm just not sure that Watson was that guy.

[Tinstar2]

You also realise that Sione Pohua has all the tools and the potential to be great nose tackle?

It would also probably take more than a year for him to turn into a starter(Wilfork took one year and he's not even that good a starter),we'd be looking at two to three years before he develops.So you're basicly wanting a 3 year plan to fix an imediate problem.

I would of liked to of seen nose tackle addressed this offseason,but i wanted it addresed in free agency.Get somehelp at the position straight away and then look to develop a younger guy.I'm just not sure that Watson was that guy.

Let me ask you this simple question.With the way the NFL salary cap is,would you rather give 3rd round money to a potential starting DT and RB,or to a backup safety and LB.

If Mangini is the HC everyone keeps swearing that he is,why would it take 3 yrs to get the potential out of a guy with supreme talent who just lacks motivation.

As for Pouha,this guy came into camp at a little over 300lbs,while at 330lbs,Watson has shown flashes of gretaness at times.

[Ten]

Let me ask you this simple question.With the way the NFL salary cap is,would you rather give 3rd round money to a potential starting DT and RB,or to a backup safety and LB.

If Mangini is the HC everyone keeps swearing that he is,why would it take 3 yrs to get the potential out of a guy with supreme talent who just lacks motivation.

As for Pouha,this guy came into camp at a little over 300lbs,while at 330lbs,Watson has shown flashes of gretaness at times.

Who says Smith and Shlegel are destined to be back ups?The same guys who predicted that Watson was a 1st round player?The funny thing is that 0 out of 32 teams would pay Watson 3rd round money,every team passed on him 3 times.I'm sorry but it's just plain nutty to of already judged players after two preseason games.

Pouha was 330lbs when he was drafted.Once Watson would go through our conditioning programme,he'd probably be under 310lbs.I never followed Watson in college but i was under the impression that he needed more than just motivation.I've heard his whole attitude and work ethic stinks and his technique needs a lot of work.

[Preston Howley III]

If you have talent and excell iat the college level,you have the chance to be a great to solid pro.If you have no talent and excelled at the college level,you have a chance to be remembered as a great to solid college football player.Watson and Norwood have talent,and were available in round 3.Hell,we drafted those 2 mooks,and Brad Smith and Washington the 2 players we took 1 round later are much more talented both as collegeians and as pros.

I thought the days of Marc Magna and SAteve Rosga were over.Hell,even Bradway realized drafting players like derek Pagel is a waste of time.

All I can say is, there are going to be players the Jets took, and over TC, realized "that's not what we were looking for/expected" and the player gets cut. Even second rounders can be monumental mistakes (Terry Day, drafted by Parcells in round two in April, was cut by August). It happens. We'll make mistakes, but so will other teams. Teams have to trim their rosters, there will be a NT who becomes expendable on another team simply because thats the way it shakes out, not because the guy sucked, but because the teams depth chart was already set at that position. We'll get a NT, don't worry.

Maybe Schlegel gets cut, maybe he doesn't. Let the coaches decide. Let's not drum the guy out of town already because some fans think he was unworthy of being drafted in the 3rd round. In the end, nobody cares where you got drafted. You make the 53 man roster, it doesn't matter if you were drafted in round one or round seven.

[Gibbon]

Amazing how a injuries to a starting RB and a backup DT bring out the "we never should have drafted Schlegel and Smith" crew again.

While you are assuming that Norwood and Watson will be superstars and that Schlegel and Smith will be backups why dont you also assume that the coaches and management of this team saw something in the latter two guys that made them think that they could be starters that they didnt see in the first two guys.

[Tinstar2]

This isn't about what they saw or didn't see.This is about having talent or not having talent.Anyone who ever saw either Jerious Norwood or Gabe Watson play,will tell you that both players have huge potential.

The same cannot be said for the 2 guys we got in the 3rd round of this past draft.You're not talking about the 1st or 2nd round,you're talking about the 3rd round.When you have the chance to get that type of talent,have it around for 4 to 5 yrs at that salary and have it reach it's potential,you get what every team in the NFl crave.

Cheap Starters.

Look,I didn't want to see Herm leave,but he quit.I happen to like what the new coaching staff is attempting to do,because dispite what most fans believe,it appears as thou they believe like i do that this team can win now.With that said,there's no way that i will just go along with every decision just because these guys deserve the benefit of the doubt.

[Sperm Edwards]

I don't know how much Martin's lingering injury really factors in like so many assume. If he came back from his surgery, Martin would only be able to be the starter on the Jets. Every other team in the NFL has at leasat one RB more dangerous than a 33 yo Curtis Martin.

[KSJets]

This isn't about what they saw or didn't see.This is about having talent or not having talent.Anyone who ever saw either Jerious Norwood or Gabe Watson play,will tell you that both players have huge potential.

They all said Blair Thomas had talent and huge potential too. Thank you for making me have to bring him up

[faba]

It will be a couple of years to know if any draft pick is a success or not- much as we like to think we know definitely including myself as someone that watches a lot of college ball-it is a crap shoot taking your best shot on who will succeed or not.

[Sperm Edwards]

Who was more of a sure thing than Andre Wadsworth? Imagine if we'd gotten HIM in the 3rd round. Then we wouldn't have had to piss away first round draft choices on Ellis and/or Abraham. Chew on THAT for a while.

[Tinstar2]

Who was more of a sure thing than Andre Wadsworth? Imagine if we'd gotten HIM in the 3rd round. Then we wouldn't have had to piss away first round draft choices on Ellis and/or Abraham. Chew on THAT for a while.

People we are missing the point here.It was the 3rd round,and these guys have the type of talent that could have gotten them drafted higher .Watson had motivation issues,and Norwood's team sucked and that's why those guys dropped .

[Sperm Edwards]

People we are missing the point here.It was the 3rd round,and these guys have the type of talent that could have gotten them drafted higher .Watson had motivation issues,and Norwood's team sucked and that's why those guys dropped .

First off, I generally agree with you, as I wouldn't have objected to drafting Watson in round 2 without trading down (after taking the same to OLmen in round 1). But the thing is there will be first-rounders who are busts. So who cares if those first-round-talent busts were taken in round one or round 3? I think they said that about Toby Myles when the Giants "stole" him in round 4 some years back. If I had the energy I'm sure I could find 30 more examples just like him.

[Tinstar2]

I care,especially if cutting that player and having his dead money left against the cap forces us to cut someone we need.That's why if you can add a potential starter in round 3 you do it and forget about players like boar Hunter.

I look at every part of what makes up a team,not just the Roster.Oh,and I know that you and i agree on this issue.

[RSJ]

Not really sure this is a mistake as of right now. As it looks at the moment Norwood could not start immediately anyway. He is not ready. As far as the DT situation goes I like this Tui kid as a prospect - but again not sure if a rookie could really start right away at the NG in a 3-4. Drafting for the NG position is really more about drafting for strength and attitude rather than the typical skill sets you look for in a DT. Besides both players are listed as 3rd stringers right now.