Premium Players

[Tinstar2]

The kind you give huge cap hits and build your franchise around.

QB

RB

OLT

DE _ Julius Peppers Richard Seymour type

OLB _ Willie Mcginest type

CB _ ability to cover 1 side of the field mano a mano.

How many of these players exist on our current roster.Feel free to include players you believe may have the Talent .

QB _ undecided/no

RB _ Hell no

OLT _ Ferguson/?

DE _ Hell no

OLB _ Thomas/?

CB _ Miller/?/Dyson/?

Clemens has to become special so next yr we can add 2 names to that list.His own and Adrian Peterson.

Thoughts

[RSJ]

Center is also very important and I think Mangold will be a great one too. MLB is also important and Vilma is a star in the making if not already. Eveything starts upfront which is why the good teams all start with building a team there. I'm not sure what you are getting at here. If you are saying the Jets lack talent we already know that as a fact.

[Tinstar2]

Center is also very important and I think Mangold will be a great one too. MLB is also important and Vilma is a star in the making if not already. Eveything starts upfront which is why the good teams all start with building a team there. I'm not sure what you are getting at here. If you are saying the Jets lack talent we already know that as a fact.

All the positions that make up a pro football team are important,but not all of em are worth investing huge cap dollars on.OC is the type of position that could demand a huge cap hit,but that player would have to be a perennial probowl starter.John Vilma is a solid to elite player,but he's not a premium player.Vilma's worth is being tested in the 34 defense as an ILBer and a premium player would have the ability to play equally effective in either scheme.Also,I don't consider ILBer as a premium position.

You should know that i believe the jets to have very good talent within the roster.What they don't have are special players that can take over a game.Ferguson could develop into such a player.So could Justin Miller and Bryan Thomas because they have the skills to reah that type of potential.

[#27TheDominator]

All the positions that make up a pro football team are important,but not all of em are worth investing huge cap dollars on.OC is the type of position that could demand a huge cap hit,but that player would have to be a perennial probowl starter.John Vilma is a solid to elite player,but he's not a premium player.Vilma's worth is being tested in the 34 defense as an ILBer and a premium player would have the ability to play equally effective in either scheme.Also,I don't consider ILBer as a premium position.

You should know that i believe the jets to have very good talent within the roster.What they don't have are special players that can take over a game.Ferguson could develop into such a player.So could Justin Miller and Bryan Thomas because they have the skills to reah that type of potential.

I agree with your analysis. I'd have listed all the same guys, with question marks near them all. I'd add Vilma as a premium with a ? as well because if he shows he's as good as last year in a 4-3/3-4 hybrid then I think he'd be worth taking a fairly big cap hit. Not a John Abraham hit, but a pretty big one. The Jets don't have any players I think have had real good seasons back to back over the last 2 years and I think you need that to be "premium."

[James Hasty]

Offense

Coles

Fergeson

Mangold

Defense

Ellis

Vilma

Barton

Rhodes

Miller (Maybe)

[Preston Howley III]

If Clemens can get some starts this season, and does good, then we can pass on Brady Quinn and take a DE in round one next year, like Clemson's Gaines Adams.

[Tinstar2]

Offense

Coles

Fergeson

Mangold

Defense

Ellis

Vilma

Barton

Rhodes

Miller (Maybe)

WR is not premium position

Ellis,you have got to be kidding,Getting paid like a premium player,doesn't make you a premium player

Barton not a chance.

Rhodes has a shot to be a great Player,but safety is not a premium position.If this player develops into a probowler,I have no problem paying him thou.

[AVM]

if youre going off sheer potential(which you seem to be doing), then ellis does belong up there, as does rhodes. Ellis had been one of the better DE's in the league until last years complete meltdown of the D-line. Rhodes has shown serious, serious potential, and was one of the few bright spots last year, imo. I'd like to say we have some on offense, but unless washington was to add pass blocking to his skills set, or brad smith turns out to be a better version of antwan randle-el(which i think is possible)...theres just not much there that you haven't already stated.

[Tinstar2]

Here's what i'm interested in.The positions i listed as premium positions,are players i have no problem paying huge cap hits to.If those positions take yp 60-75% of the team's cap,then that's fine with me.The others you can upgrade on a yearly basis and insert when the vets become to pricey to keep.

Now i full understand that sometimes a player from a non premium position is so outstanding,that you have to make an exception.

Rhodes is on his way to becoming that type of player.Shaun Ellis never was and never will.Shaun Ellis can be nothing more than a LDE.He's capable of being serviceable in the 34 or 43,but nothing special.He's no Richard Seymour.

[Preston Howley III]

Here's what i'm interested in.The positions i listed as premium positions,are players i have no problem paying huge cap hits to.If those positions take yp 60-75% of the team's cap,then that's fine with me.The others you can upgrade on a yearly basis and insert when the vets become to pricey to keep.

Now i full understand that sometimes a player from a non premium position is so outstanding,that you have to make an exception.

Rhodes is on his way to becoming that type of player.Shaun Ellis never was and never will.Shaun Ellis can be nothing more than a LDE.He's capable of being serviceable in the 34 or 43,but nothing special.He's no Richard Seymour.

Can you name one team that has every "premium position" filled? Not only that, but dispersed the cap funds proportionately?

I'm having a hard time following the point in all of this. I mean, you got teams in the NFL, where one or two "premium positions" eats up 60% of the cap. You make it sound like finding these players in the space of two or three years, and signing them all to contracts convenient to the salary cap structure is a walk in the park. It just doesn't happen like that. And if you look at the one team that has won more SB's in the past 6 years, they didn't have any of those premium players. They had Brady. And Brady wasn't even getting paid in 2001. He was a zero cap hit. Seymour, ok. McGinnist? A premium player? Ellis is a POS according to you, but McGinnist is a premium player.

[Preston Howley III]

It's real easy to say "give most of your cap to premium players". Hey thats great. First you gotta find them. And how many times you dump a huge chunk of change on a QB, a shutdown CB, or a RB, and the guy winds up a bust? Now what?

I guess the point you are trying to make is, you're angry because the Jets drafted an OT in round one.

[James Hasty]

WR is not premium position

Ellis,you have got to be kidding,Getting paid like a premium player,doesn't make you a premium player

Barton not a chance.

Rhodes has a shot to be a great Player,but safety is not a premium position.If this player develops into a probowler,I have no problem paying him thou.

Aside from special teams, any position can produce a premium player. Please explain to me how Ronnie Lott, Jerry Rice, and Larry Allen are not premium players.

Ellis is the best player on our DL right now. He is in the prime of his career and one of the players that we are bulding around.

Due to last year's injury people forget how good Barton is. I am not putting him above Vilma but Baton is one hell of a good player.

[Tinstar2]

It's real easy to say "give most of your cap to premium players". Hey thats great. First you gotta find them. And how many times you dump a huge chunk of change on a QB, a shutdown CB, or a RB, and the guy winds up a bust? Now what?

I guess the point you are trying to make is, you're angry because the Jets drafted an OT in round one.

Why would i be angry when the position they took fits 1 of my premium positions.What I'm attempting to say is that all the talk about a WR in round 1 using a top 10 pick makes no sense.That goes for TE,and DT,unless the DT has the ability to move outside ala Seymour.

Some guys just make it impossible to release them,but that's why using your draft picks wisely to add quality depth is so important.

[#27TheDominator]

Why would i be angry when the position they took fits 1 of my premium positions.What I'm attempting to say is that all the talk about a WR in round 1 using a top 10 pick makes no sense.That goes for TE,and DT,unless the DT has the ability to move outside ala Seymour.

I think a true monster DT is worth burning a top 10 pick. If Robertson was as good as advertised I would have no problem with picking him fourth. In fact, I don't really have a problem with picking him fourth so much as all we gave up to get to fourth.

Ellis is the best player on our DL right now. He is in the prime of his career and one of the players that we are bulding around.

Due to last year's injury people forget how good Barton is. I am not putting him above Vilma but Baton is one hell of a good player.

Ellis is good, but as far as I have seen he has only had one REAL good season. There is nothing wrong with him, but I wouldn't say we are building around him, so much as hoping he continues to have a good career and trying to fill holes around him.

Barton may be one hell of a good player, but he is in no way a "premium player." He's not a guy you bust the cap to keep. He's never been great. To be what I consider a premium player you'd have to be great (pro-bowl level) for more than 1 year consecutive.

I agree that any position player can be a "premium player" but if they aren't from one of the "premium" spots they have to be that much better. For example, being a pro-bowl FB doesn't make you a premium player, but a pro-bowl QB/RB most likely is. Sure Ronnie Lott was, but he may be the only safety that has been one in the last couple of decades.

[The Troll]

The kind you give huge cap hits and build your franchise around.

QB

RB

OLT

DE _ Julius Peppers Richard Seymour type

OLB _ Willie Mcginest type

CB _ ability to cover 1 side of the field mano a mano.

How many of these players exist on our current roster.Feel free to include players you believe may have the Talent .

QB _ undecided/no

RB _ Hell no

OLT _ Ferguson/?

DE _ Hell no

OLB _ Thomas/?

CB _ Miller/?/Dyson/?

Clemens has to become special so next yr we can add 2 names to that list.His own and Adrian Peterson.

Thoughts

WTF? When the hell did Bryan Thomas become a "premium" player?

[#27TheDominator]

WTF? When the hell did Bryan Thomas become a "premium" player?

He said "or may have the talent." I don't think ANY of those guys actually IS a premium player, they just "may have the talent."

[Tinstar2]

WTF? When the hell did Bryan Thomas become a "premium" player?

See that ? mark after his name.It's there for a reason.Bryan Thomashas Played DE/DT and now OLBer for the Jets and didn't embarrassed himself at any of the positions.He has the ability to be a premium player.He just need someone to get that ability to mature.

[The Troll]

Well, then you think much more highly of Thomas than I do.

The dude was drafted as a speed rusher, and he ended up being a serviceable run stopper with little to no pass rushing skills from the defensive end position. I hope he succeeds at OLB, but I ain't banking on it.

[James Hasty]

Barton may be one hell of a good player, but he is in no way a "premium player." He's not a guy you bust the cap to keep. He's never been great. To be what I consider a premium player you'd have to be great (pro-bowl level) for more than 1 year consecutive.

Give him time.

I agree that any position player can be a "premium player" but if they aren't from one of the "premium" spots they have to be that much better. For example, being a pro-bowl FB doesn't make you a premium player, but a pro-bowl QB/RB most likely is. Sure Ronnie Lott was, but he may be the only safety that has been one in the last couple of decades.

How about Kenny Easley or Rod Woodson?

[Preston Howley III]

Why would i be angry when the position they took fits 1 of my premium positions.What I'm attempting to say is that all the talk about a WR in round 1 using a top 10 pick makes no sense.That goes for TE,and DT,unless the DT has the ability to move outside ala Seymour.

Some guys just make it impossible to release them,but that's why using your draft picks wisely to add quality depth is so important.

What are you talking about? Who keeps saying we should draft a WR in round 1 of 2007? You said on the "scenarios" thread that the Jets should have drafted Cutler, Maroney and Chad Jackson. You also said that since they didn't do that, that we should grab Quinn or Peterson in round one of 2007. So you definitely wanted/want a QB or RB.

You also said the Jets should have kept Mawae and that Adrian Jones "just needed more time to develop".

All of this adds up to you being very angry the Jets drafted D'Brick and Mangold.

[Tinstar2]

Ok doctor spock,you figured me out.Can't hide anything from you,but just for s#!ts and giggles how about this little senario.

I happen to read quite a few Jet message boards,and from time to time I have seen where fans have called for the Jets to look at drafting a Calvin Johnson,Dwayne Jarrett or Sydney Rice with our 1st round draft pick next yr even if it's a top 10 pick.That's what led me to make this thread.

The 1st thing i did was point out what i believe to be premium positions worthy of such a draft pick and the cap hit that goes with it.The next thing i did was reference how many of those type players the jets may currently have on the roster using potential talent and expectations as a guide.The next thing i did was note how the Jets could have filled some of those positions had they made certain selections in this past april's draft.Lastly,I noted that Clemens need to comeup big so the jets can go ahead and have 2 additional premium position players added to the team in Clemens and hopefull 2007 1st rounder Adrian Peterson.If the Jets are unsure about Clemens,they may be forced to look at taking Brady Quinn which would negate the chance to add that premium position RB .

That's ok thou,your analysis works too,just as long as you're happy.

[Preston Howley III]

Ok doctor spock,you figured me out.Can't hide anything from you,but just for s#!ts and giggles how about this little senario.

I happen to read quite a few Jet message boards,and from time to time I have seen where fans have called for the Jets to look at drafting a Calvin Johnson,Dwayne Jarrett or Sydney Rice with our 1st round draft pick next yr even if it's a top 10 pick.That's what led me to make this thread.

Nobody on this board has "called for" the Jets to draft Calvin Johnson in the first round. So why post it, here? The whole premise of your "premium players" thread is based on some 14 year old kid on JI saying the Jets should draft a WR in round 1 of the 2007 draft? Sounds like BS, but what the hey, I'll indulge you...

The 1st thing i did was point out what i believe to be premium positions worthy of such a draft pick and the cap hit that goes with it.The next thing i did was reference how many of those type players the jets may currently have on the roster using potential talent and expectations as a guide.

So LT is a premium position, according to you, but you didn't list anybody's name next to it, even though your criteria describes a player who may have potential talent and expections. D'Brick doesn't have "potential talent and expectations"?

The next thing i did was note how the Jets could have filled some of those positions had they made certain selections in this past april's draft.

Had they made? Just because you make a list of "premium positions" and then put some drafted players name next to it, doesn't mean crap. Sure, you could have filled some of those positions with your picks, but what makes you think Mangini didn't with his?

You can sit here and say that you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jay Cutler will go on to have a better NFL career than Kellen Clemens? Dude, what are you wasting your time on a friggin' internet MB? Get your butt to Vegas, pronto!

Lastly,I noted that Clemens need to come up big so the jets can go ahead and have 2 additional premium position players added to the team in Clemens and hopefull 2007 1st rounder Adrian Peterson.

Hey, I'm sure the Cardinals are hoping Leinart comes up big. I'm sure the Broncos want Jay Cutler to come up big. We want Clemens to come up big. If we're wrong, we aint lost sh*t, but if they're wrong, they just f*cked themselves for the next five years, and we have Brady Quinn ripe for the taking. They don't. They won't.

If the Jets are unsure about Clemens,they may be forced to look at taking Brady Quinn which would negate the chance to add that premium position RB .

And if the Jets drafted Cutler, and he sht the bed, we'd negate the chance to "add that premium position RB", be out of LT, and be in a bigger cap nightmare than we have been with Chad Pennington.

The way I see it, you're on record picking Cutler, Maroney and Jackson. Mangini is on record grabbing D'Brick, Mangold and Clemens.

Let time be the judge.

[Tinstar2]

To borrow a line from Jetcane.

That is all.