More bad news: Papi has irregular heartbeat

[TaborJet]

More bad news: Papi has irregular heartbeat

Red Sox star sent home to Boston as Red Sox lose fourth straight

OAKLAND, Calif. - The Boston Red Sox were hurting enough as it was before learning that slugger David Ortiz had a recurrence of an irregular heartbeat.

After losing to the Oakland Athletics 9-0 on Monday night, the Red Sox announced that Ortiz would leave the team Tuesday and return to Boston to be examined again for medical tests.

[mbn007]

That Bosox lineup without Manny and Ortiz looked very pedestrian last night. Now they know how it feels to lose a Sheff and Matsui, not that Sheff/Matsui are equal production-wise to the Bosox 2.

But that's how it is when 2 big guns are removed. Hurts a lot. So the Yankees deserve some credit for hanging in there all season, before taking over some 10 days ago.

[JonEJet]

Irregular heartbeat=Side effect from roid use

[Blackout]

without papi and manny, the red sox have the worst lineup in the AL East, hands down

[Garb]

David's having issues carrying the entire team on his shoulders.

The first time he had this issue, doctors attributed it to stress and dehydration. I hope the same holds true this time. No need to rush this guy back - the season is over for the Sox anyway. Get healthy, Papi.

[Green Jets & Ham]

That Bosox lineup without Manny and Ortiz looked very pedestrian last night. Now they know how it feels to lose a Sheff and Matsui, not that Sheff/Matsui are equal production-wise to the Bosox 2.

But that's how it is when 2 big guns are removed. Hurts a lot. So the Yankees deserve some credit for hanging in there all season, before taking over some 10 days ago.

EXACTLY RIGHT

I caught hell for pointing out what a huge hit the Yankees took, losing two of their 3-5 thumpers for the entire season ... that is a massive, massive blow for any team to overcome ... Just look at the Red Sox without Manny and Ortiz, suddenly one of the best offensive teams in baseball, a lethal offensive team, looks like they can barely score a run ... its a massive blow

Now consider this, the Sox have been without Manny and Ortiz {simultaniously} for what, less than a week?

TRY DOING THAT FOR THREE MONTHS!!

TRY DOING THAT FOR AN ENTIRE SEASON!!

IMO Joe Torre is the manager of the year ... what he did this year is a borderline miracle

Gotta remember, the Yankees were also without Cano {Hitting .330} for 6 Weeks ... this kid is challenging Jeter for the highest BA on the team, in what many are calling a possible MVP season for Jeter, and we were without Cano for 6 Weeks as well

As for Bobby Abreu, that was a huge pickup but it didn't happen till the deadline ... the Yanks were without Shef, Matsui and Cano {simultaniously} for 6 Weeks, the first two for three months, and all before Abreu came to town

And Arod is having the worse season of his career as well, so he hasn't exactly picked up the slack ... not in a big way ... but Giambi has exceeded expectations so we'll call this one a wash

BOTTOM LINE: This is the best Job of Joe Torre's career as a manger in my mind, and while I can understand Jim Leyland winning the award, I don't think anyone needs to explain their vote for Joe Torre

As for David Ortiz, I sincerely wish him a speedy and full recovery ... this is scary news ... anything to do with the heart is scary ... some things are more important than baseball and this is one of those things ... baseball is a game, but this is life and death ... so I hope David Ortiz is back on the field, AND HEALTHY, 100% clean bill of health, ASAP

[DireJet38]

EXACTLY RIGHT

I caught hell for pointing out what a huge hit the Yankees took, losing two of their 3-5 thumpers for the entire season ... that is a massive, massive blow for any team to overcome ... Just look at the Red Sox without Manny and Ortiz, suddenly one of the best offensive teams in baseball, a lethal offensive team, looks like they can barely score a run ... its a massive blow

Now consider this, the Sox have been without Manny and Ortiz {simultaniously} for what, less than a week?

TRY DOING THAT FOR THREE MONTHS!!

TRY DOING THAT FOR AN ENTIRE SEASON!!

IMO Joe Torre is the manager of the year ... what he did this year is a borderline miracle

Gotta remember, the Yankees were also without Cano {Hitting .330} for 6 Weeks ... this kid is challenging Jeter for the highest BA on the team, in what many are calling a possible MVP season for Jeter, and we were without Cano for 6 Weeks as well

As for Bobby Abreu, that was a huge pickup but it didn't happen till the deadline ... the Yanks were without Shef, Matsui and Cano {simultaniously} for 6 Weeks, the first two for three months, and all before Abreu came to town

And Arod is having the worse season of his career as well, so he hasn't exactly picked up the slack ... not in a big way ... but Giambi has exceeded expectations so we'll call this one a wash

BOTTOM LINE: This is the best Job of Joe Torre's career as a manger in my mind, and while I can understand Jim Leyland winning the award, I don't think anyone needs to explain their vote for Joe Torre

As for David Ortiz, I sincerely wish him a speedy and full recovery ... this is scary news ... anything to do with the heart is scary ... some things are more important than baseball and this is one of those things ... baseball is a game, but this is life and death ... so I hope David Ortiz is back on the field, AND HEALTHY, 100% clean bill of health, ASAP

Easy, this all goes back to the loss of Varitek.

He was a rock.

[Thor99]

You're wrong, Ham. And here's why.

The Sox don't have anyone capable of picking up the slack.

The Yanks are still able to send out Jeter, A-Rod, Damon and Giambi. The Sox don't have anyone comparable to those guys.

To lose Matsui and Sheff hurt, no doubt about it. But it obviously didn't kill your team, the Yanks still have big guns. Losing Manny and Ortiz makes the Sox offense a pop gun.

[Jet/BosoxFan]

Easy, this all goes back to the loss of Varitek.

He was a rock.

I couldnt agree more...V-tek is the man. But the other ppl are right too, the season is over, Big Papi should shut it down. And...I wont even care if he walks away with the huge contract he just signed this past spring and never plays again.

He's already earned it.

[Exit 117]

You're wrong, Ham. And here's why.

The Sox don't have anyone capable of picking up the slack.

The Yanks are still able to send out Jeter, A-Rod, Damon and Giambi. The Sox don't have anyone comparable to those guys.

To lose Matsui and Sheff hurt, no doubt about it. But it obviously didn't kill your team, the Yanks still have big guns. Losing Manny and Ortiz makes the Sox offense a pop gun.

You broke a rule: you used logic that goes against a Yankees fan's point. Shame on you. To the death chamber!

[124]

Best of luck to Papi, I hope things get better for him. I've had that kind of stuff before, scary crap. As someone whose had 3 open heart surgerys before he was 7 years old, I'm not a holder of one of the greatest hearts either. Kept me from playing Football competively at the High School level becasue I was never medically cleared to play because I can't take too hard of a hit to the chest area. Sucks but here's hoping that Papi gets better ASAP. You never like to see any player get a serious injury / defect or anything along those lines.

[Thor99]

Best of luck to Papi, I hope things get better for him. I've had that kind of stuff before, scary crap. As someone whose had 3 open heart surgerys before he was 7 years old, I'm not a holder of one of the greatest hearts either. Kept me from playing Football competively at the High School level becasue I was never medically cleared to play because I can't take too hard of a hit to the chest area. Sucks but here's hoping that Papi gets better ASAP. You never like to see any player get a serious injury / defect or anything along those lines.

Did it have something to do with the fact that you are a giant?

Glad you made it through all of that.

[mbn007]

Here's hoping Ortiz gets a clean bill of health. Whether he comes back or not is irrelavent. I hope he does return, and soon. But anyone's health is way more important.

[124]

Did it have something to do with the fact that you are a giant?

Glad you made it through all of that.

Nah not cause I'm a giant like Papi...I was born with a hole in my heart and yeah...just not a good start to life for the little 124.

[wildthing2022000]

That Bosox lineup without Manny and Ortiz looked very pedestrian last night. Now they know how it feels to lose a Sheff and Matsui, not that Sheff/Matsui are equal production-wise to the Bosox 2.

But that's how it is when 2 big guns are removed. Hurts a lot. So the Yankees deserve some credit for hanging in there all season, before taking over some 10 days ago.

More like losing Jeter, Giambi(pre-collapse),& A-rod(2005 version).

[kloogy]

As much as I don't give 2 squirts about him, I hope he gets his health issues resolved. I know he has kids and a family.

[mbn007]

More like losing Jeter, Giambi(pre-collapse),& A-rod(2005 version).

Nope. The Yankees would suffer a far worse loss in your senario. My example was closer, albeit tilted, as the Bosox loss is greater than Sheff/Matsui.

[Maxman]

Best of luck to Papi, I hope things get better for him. I've had that kind of stuff before, scary crap. As someone whose had 3 open heart surgerys before he was 7 years old, I'm not a holder of one of the greatest hearts either. Kept me from playing Football competively at the High School level becasue I was never medically cleared to play because I can't take too hard of a hit to the chest area. Sucks but here's hoping that Papi gets better ASAP. You never like to see any player get a serious injury / defect or anything along those lines.

Bro you had 3 open heart surgery 3 times? Wow -- I did not now that. You learn something new every day!

You sure you just didn't get cut from JV and this is a story you made up? lol.

[wildthing2022000]

Nope. The Yankees would suffer a far worse loss in your senario. My example was closer, albeit tilted, as the Bosox loss is greater than Sheff/Matsui.

Well I'm counting Varitek also.

[CrazyCarl40]

The difference between the Yanks and Sox injuries:

Yanks lose Sheff and Matsui, their 3+4 hitters are still Giambi and A-Rod.

Sox lose Papi and Manny and their 3+4 hitters are Mark Loretta and Kevin Youkilis, guys who spent the majority of their time as leadoff and #2 this season.

Yankees injuries also happened before the AS break. Red Sox happened after the trade deadline, so not much could be accomplished that way. It's truly amazing we are missing our 3-6 hitters right now, our #3 and #5 starters, and not to mention a few guys who played well replacing those already injured. Heck, two sure fire September pitching call-ups are done for the season. Not an excuse mind you, just a fact.

[GM]

Yankees injuries also happened before the AS break. .

So why didn't Boston have a huge lead before Manny and Ortiz went out?

[Exit 117]

So why didn't Boston have a huge lead before Manny and Ortiz went out?

You're wrong, Ham. And here's why.

The Sox don't have anyone capable of picking up the slack.

The Yanks are still able to send out Jeter, A-Rod, Damon and Giambi. The Sox don't have anyone comparable to those guys.

To lose Matsui and Sheff hurt, no doubt about it. But it obviously didn't kill your team, the Yanks still have big guns. Losing Manny and Ortiz makes the Sox offense a pop gun.

What he said.

[124]

Bro you had 3 open heart surgery 3 times? Wow -- I did not now that. You learn something new every day!

You sure you just didn't get cut from JV and this is a story you made up? lol.

No joke man.

I'll show you the scar at the Patriot game if you'd like...goes from basically right under the neck to the belly button...I'm glad I was too young where I don't remember all of it. Sucks being limited.

[GM]

What he said.

So I guess that makes the Yankees a better team....

[Exit 117]

So I guess that makes the Yankees a better team....

That is what I was implying. When both fully healthy, the Yankees lineup is far superior to Boston's.

[Thor99]

So I guess that makes the Yankees a better team....

Nobody ever said that the Yankees lineup isn't better than the Sox lineup.

The Sox were hoping to win with better pitching and defense.

[Thor99]

Irregular heartbeat=Side effect from roid use

I guess Giambis and Sheffs heart are going to blow up the toilet any day now.

I hear A-Rod's heart goes pitter patter whenever he sees DJ in the shower.

[GM]

Nobody ever said that the Yankees lineup isn't better than the Sox lineup.

The Sox were hoping to win with better pitching and defense.

So losing Manny and Ortiz hurts your defense??

[mbn007]

The difference between the Yanks and Sox injuries:

Yanks lose Sheff and Matsui, their 3+4 hitters are still Giambi and A-Rod.

Sox lose Papi and Manny and their 3+4 hitters are Mark Loretta and Kevin Youkilis, guys who spent the majority of their time as leadoff and #2 this season.

Yankees injuries also happened before the AS break. Red Sox happened after the trade deadline, so not much could be accomplished that way. It's truly amazing we are missing our 3-6 hitters right now, our #3 and #5 starters, and not to mention a few guys who played well replacing those already injured. Heck, two sure fire September pitching call-ups are done for the season. Not an excuse mind you, just a fact.

Well, you had all these guys before the AS Break. Why did you not build up a 7 game lead then, especially when the Yanks were reeling in June, with a 14-12 record (accomplished by winning the last 2 games of the month, and 7 of the last 9).

Bosox had a chance, and flushed it down. Yankees had a chance, and took big time advantage. That's the diffrence between the 2 teams.

[PFSIKH]

Well, you had all these guys before the AS Break. Why did you not build up a 7 game lead then, especially when the Yanks were reeling in June, with a 14-12 record (accomplished by winning the last 2 games of the month, and 7 of the last 9).

Bosox had a chance, and flushed it down. Yankees had a chance, and took big time advantage. That's the diffrence between the 2 teams.

Not exactly a fair or acurate statement there mbn.

If Papelbon was only half as good as he was through June, the Sox would be challenging the Orioles for 4th place. This does not even factor in the heroics of Big Papi.

The Red Sox showed signs they were not as good as their record suggested. Streaky hitting. Streaky Pitching. One reliable set-up man. As mnuch as some Yankee fans bitched and moaned about injuries, the Sox had their fair share early also.

The Sox did not take advantage early because they were incapable. As been mentioned alot, take out their NL record and they are under .500. Take out the Orioles record and they are swimming with the Fishes (i.e. D-Rays).

[mbn007]

Not exactly a fair or acurate statement there mbn.

If Papelbon was only half as good as he was through June, the Sox would be challenging the Orioles for 4th place. This does not even factor in the heroics of Big Papi.

The Red Sox showed signs they were not as good as their record suggested. Streaky hitting. Streaky Pitching. One reliable set-up man. As mnuch as some Yankee fans bitched and moaned about injuries, the Sox had their fair share early also.

The Sox did not take advantage early because they were incapable. As been mentioned alot, take out their NL record and they are under .500. Take out the Orioles record and they are swimming with the Fishes (i.e. D-Rays).

In other words, you are agreeing with the writer of the article I posted on teh other thread I started today. In that case, the blame must lay at the feet of young Theo.

So, I pose my question from last week again. Is Theo treading water now? Does he have this offseason to turn it around, and if he fails, he's gone?

[PFSIKH]

In other words, you are agreeing with the writer of the article I posted on teh other thread I started today. In that case, the blame must lay at the feet of young Theo.

So, I pose my question from last week again. Is Theo treading water now? Does he have this offseason to turn it around, and if he fails, he's gone?

No.

He does get some blame obviously, but how could he forsee all that went wrong?

As I said before, I do not hate any of his moves.

Getting a CF that put up similar numbers and is 6 years younger is a good move, but it imploded under and injury and/or Brightlightitis and Damon has exceled.

Sign a young stud pitcher and a throw-in 3rd baseman. Beckett continues his hot cold season and Lowell's hitting, while colling off, helped the team early. He plugged a hole, that allowed Youk to play 1st.

They trade their 6th pitcher, a career .500 guy and their 4th and 5th miss most of the season and are sporadic when they did or do pitch.

Knock Wily Mo, but he has contributed. He filled in for Coco and Trot and has contributed, but now he is down, again.

Tek and Big Papi are down.

I do not knock him for Manny. He was dealt that hand and tried to divest the team of him and it has not worked.

WHere I think you can knock him, but he said as much in Spring Training, he was going to rely on the young guns to help augment this team. They either wore out, need more time or as good as they are going to get. You can knock him for his lack of action at the All-Star break, but really short of contracting the bottom four teams and taking the pick of the litter, this team had too many holes to fill. There was no trade Nomar and Get Mieky and Cabrera (should not have allowed him to leave) to complete the team. The Sox would have probably needed to cleanout their farm system to get the 5 bodies they needed to contiunue to hold onto first.

[mbn007]

As I said before, I do not hate any of his moves.

1. Getting a CF that put up similar numbers and is 6 years younger is a good move, but it imploded under and injury and/or Brightlightitis and Damon has exceled.

2. They trade their 6th pitcher, a career .500 guy and their 4th and 5th miss most of the season and are sporadic when they did or do pitch.

Your 2 points above...........

If it turns out that Crisp is fried under the big lights of Boston (same as NY, from a Baseball standpoint), then it was a bad move letting Damon go. This turns into a move like bringing Vasquez here from Montreal, bringing Whitson here, bringing Rogers here, et al. A whole list of guys who can't play under the slightest media attention.

You say it was no big deal letting Arroyo go, yet admit he was your 6 starter. Then you lament the injury to #4 and #5. So it was a rotten move allowing your #6 to leave, knowing you had 3 guys [past their 38th birthday in the rotation, another (Beckett) who was known as Mr. Blister his whole career, and another guy (Clement) who at the end of 2005, also looked like he could not handle Boston.

So trading away Arroyo, a young, live arm, who was at worst, adequate in Boston (in reality he was better than that) while not protecting your rotation from an injury, was a bad move.

IMO, these 2 moves by Theo and Crew (Theo may not have been in the GM seat in person, but he knew what was going on, and had his imput there) were bad moves.

[Alk]

Irregular heartbeat=Side effect from roid use

Next time you're about to call someone a douchebag, take a quick look in the mirror. That is if you keep any in your ship cap'n.

[PFSIKH]

Your 2 points above...........

If it turns out that Crisp is fried under the big lights of Boston (same as NY, from a Baseball standpoint), then it was a bad move letting Damon go. This turns into a move like bringing Vasquez here from Montreal, bringing Whitson here, bringing Rogers here, et al. A whole list of guys who can't play under the slightest media attention.

You say it was no big deal letting Arroyo go, yet admit he was your 6 starter. Then you lament the injury to #4 and #5. So it was a rotten move allowing your #6 to leave, knowing you had 3 guys [past their 38th birthday in the rotation, another (Beckett) who was known as Mr. Blister his whole career, and another guy (Clement) who at the end of 2005, also looked like he could not handle Boston.

So trading away Arroyo, a young, live arm, who was at worst, adequate in Boston (in reality he was better than that) while not protecting your rotation from an injury, was a bad move.

IMO, these 2 moves by Theo and Crew (Theo may not have been in the GM seat in person, but he knew what was going on, and had his imput there) were bad moves.

mbn

Point 1. Until they invent a time machine, it is tough to knock him on this. I agree with your point. If the talk is true, that Coco is like Edgar Renteria, Pavano, to name but two, 'fried under the lights' it was a bad move. No doubt about it. My point only is, trying to get younger is not necessarily a bad move. It had bad consequences and he should be faulted for that. I think we disagree on semantics.

Point 2. Again, with hindsight it is a bad move. I think it goes a little deeper though. When Theo signed Loretta, Gonzalez and took Lowell to, he said he was trying to get better defensively. He was sacrificing offense to get better defensively. Now, the Arroyo/Wily Mo trade looks a little better, because there is a need for another bat. Especially, an OFer because you have the flaky Manny on one side and the oft injured Trot on the other. As I said above and before, I am not knocking him on the move. He gambled that a pitcher that took a ball off the head and a 42yo POS would be healthier then Manny and Trot. He was wrong.

I do not disagree, that with hindsight, the moves ended up bad. They did. The homer in me is not giving up on Coco yet, but I digress. I just do not think the moves are akin to trading Bagwell for Larry Anderson.