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Green Jets & Ham

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AMERICAN LEAGUE

MVP - Derek Jeter

CYY - Johan Santana

ROY - Francisco Liriano

RRA - Joe Nathan

CPOY - Jim Thome

MGR - Leyland if Detriot wins the Central, Gardenhire if the Twins wins the Central

NATIONAL LEAGUE

MVP - Ryan Howard

CYY - Chris Carpenter

ROY - Hanley Ramirez

RRA - Billy Wagner

CPOY - Scott Rolen

MGR - Willie Randolph

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Cannot really argue your selections, but I will. ;-)

I think AL ROY should goto Verlander. Unlike Liriano and Papelbon, he has made it the whole year.

Although they have slumped recently, I think Giradi deserves NL MOY. Is Randolph the reason the Mess are 18 games better (so far) at the same point as last year? Or is it that division which had all 5 teams above .500 last year has fallen off and four of the five teams has been under .500 for the better part of this season?

IMHO taken a team that gutted itself and was 20 games under .500 a month into the season and having them in contention for the wildcard is more deserving.

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Cannot really argue your selections, but I will. ;-)

I think AL ROY should goto Verlander. Unlike Liriano and Papelbon, he has made it the whole year.

Although they have slumped recently, I think Giradi deserves NL MOY. Is Randolph the reason the Mess are 18 games better (so far) at the same point as last year? Or is it that division which had all 5 teams above .500 last year has fallen off and four of the five teams has been under .500 for the better part of this season?

IMHO taken a team that gutted itself and was 20 games under .500 a month into the season and having them in contention for the wildcard is more deserving.

florida and mets in same division,,

dont penalize someone for having a great team,, it takes talent to manage superstars..

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Cannot really argue your selections, but I will. ;-)

I think AL ROY should goto Verlander. Unlike Liriano and Papelbon, he has made it the whole year.

Although they have slumped recently, I think Giradi deserves NL MOY. Is Randolph the reason the Mess are 18 games better (so far) at the same point as last year? Or is it that division which had all 5 teams above .500 last year has fallen off and four of the five teams has been under .500 for the better part of this season?

IMHO taken a team that gutted itself and was 20 games under .500 a month into the season and having them in contention for the wildcard is more deserving.

My reasons for Liriano and Randolph ...

Verlander has been Good, VERY GOOD, but Liriano and Paplebon were dominant

Therefore I would vote for the dominant player over the durable player, because the dominant players played long enough to sustain their dominance over a prolonged period of time

Having said that, for me it came down to Liriano and Paplebon ... both equally as dominant ... but because the dominance is so equal, neither one more {or less} dominant than the other, I give the nod to the dominant SP

Lastly, had Paplebon remained healthy, THEN durability would have been the deciding factor for me ... the tiebreaker, if you will ... and Paplebon would have received my vote ... but because both players were shutdown, SP over RP became my tiebreaker

As for the NL MGR OF THE YEAR, too me its Gotta be Willie ... his team ran through the NL like a bull in a china closet ... they have a double-digit lead over the rest of the league ... REST OF THE LEAGUE ... so I can't reward mediocrity when there is one team that makes the rest of the NL {entire league!!} look like a pile of dog$hit ... in that case I have to vote for the MGR of the runaway locomotive

I would have done the same for Torre but the circumstances are different ... in the AL we have MGR's with much smaller payrolls, Leyland and Gardenhire, not only battling one another for the division title, but still battling the Yankees for the #1 Seed as well ... so the circumstances in the AL are much different, even taking the Yankees early injuries into account, thus its Leyland or Gardenhire {whoever wins the central?}

Torre will receive the ultimate lifetime achievement award when all is said and done, his amazing tenure of success with the Yankees will receive the ultimate recognition ... Cooperstown is beckoning

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florida and mets in same division,,

dont penalize someone for having a great team,, it takes talent to manage superstars..

Great point. Since when did the Marlins leave the "awful" NL East? They should be held to the same standards.

As for the NL MGR OF THE YEAR, too me its Gotta be Willie ... his team ran through the NL like a bull in a china closet ... they have a double-digit lead over the rest of the league ... REST OF THE LEAGUE ... so I can't reward mediocrity when there is one team that makes the rest of the NL {entire league!!} look like a pile of dog$hit ... in that case I have to vote for the MGR of the runaway locomotive

BINGO. As I have said many times, Willie wins not necesarilly because he did an amazing job compared to other managers of the past, nor would his team have had such success without a lot of help from his highly paid team. He wins it by default because there are no other candidates in the NL that stand out besides Girardi, and HIS team will be finishing 3rd and possibly below .500. You can't "award" a guy like that as the best manager in his league when another manager's team, in his 2nd year, has led a team to the best record in baseball and is miles ahead of any other NL team, after not making the playoffs the previous 5 seasons.

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BINGO. As I have said many times, Willie wins not necesarilly because he did an amazing job compared to other managers of the past, nor would his team have had such success without a lot of help from his highly paid team. He wins it by default because there are no other candidates in the NL that stand out besides Girardi, and HIS team will be finishing 3rd and possibly below .500. You can't "award" a guy like that as the best manager in his league when another manager's team, in his 2nd year, has led a team to the best record in baseball and is miles ahead of any other NL team, after not making the playoffs the previous 5 seasons.

I agree, and even if someone says the Mets didn't make the rest of the NL look like $hit, the rest of the NL "is dog$hit", the point remains the same ... then why reward the MGR of dog$hit over the MGR of the "one team" that consistantly stood above the mediocrity and established a dominant presense in the face of mediocrity?

Too me its Willie by a landslide, and I respect what Girardi has done with the team he inherited ... I have no doubt the Marlins performed at a much higher level than anyone had a right to expect, with so many neophytes ... he's one of the best young MGR's in the Game ... but the Mets stand alone on the NL as the only dominant team and you have to reward Willie Randolph for that, as opposed to rewarding mediocrity in the face of dominance

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80 & GJH

Aside from SJ's valid point about managing egos, the Mess spent alot of money on payroll. We know that is not a gurantee to success, but they did manage to win 83 games last year and should win 93-97 this year. Given their additional spending on FAs this year and the below expectations seasons of the Braves and Phillies, Randolph's managing does not compare to Girardi's.

Girardi took over a team that returned one starter from the rotation and one everyday player. That one player, Cabrera, switched positions LF to 3B. Girardi a first year manager, inherited a team that slashed payroll to a league low 15 million with 4+ tied into one player (Willis) and managed to survive a disatourous 20 games under .500 start. The mess were supposed to be good. There was no expectations for the Marlins. Most thought they would lose then 100 games. Not be within 2 games of .500 and in contention for a wildcard this season after 150 games.

GJH those are fair points about Liriano. He was sick when pitching. Hopefully, his injury is not too bad.

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80 & GJH

Aside from SJ's valid point about managing egos, the Mess spent alot of money on payroll. We know that is not a gurantee to success, but they did manage to win 83 games last year and should win 93-97 this year. Given their additional spending on FAs this year and the below expectations seasons of the Braves and Phillies, Randolph's managing does not compare to Girardi's.

Girardi took over a team that returned one starter from the rotation and one everyday player. That one player, Cabrera, switched positions LF to 3B. Girardi a first year manager, inherited a team that slashed payroll to a league low 15 million with 4+ tied into one player (Willis) and managed to survive a disatourous 20 games under .500 start. The mess were supposed to be good. There was no expectations for the Marlins. Most thought they would lose then 100 games. Not be within 2 games of .500 and in contention for a wildcard this season after 150 games.

GJH those are fair points about Liriano. He was sick when pitching. Hopefully, his injury is not too bad.

The Mets payroll barely changed. Piazza, Cameron, Benson, Looper all came off the books and were replaced by Delgado, Wagner and assorted role players.

I agree the team was expected to be good but that shouldn't be held against Willie and the team running away with the division despite a ton of injuries that they never complained about.

Girardi has done a fine job but when you look how Willie has juggled his entire rotation, replaced Matsui with Valentin at 2B and dealt with corner outfield injuries all season while only adding marginal players in Shawn Greene, Roberto Hernandez and Mota, he is the NL Manager of the year.

On Frank Thomas subject, I think he is not only the Comeback Player of the year but also a MVP candidate.

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80 & GJH

Aside from SJ's valid point about managing egos, the Mess spent alot of money on payroll. We know that is not a gurantee to success, but they did manage to win 83 games last year and should win 93-97 this year. Given their additional spending on FAs this year and the below expectations seasons of the Braves and Phillies, Randolph's managing does not compare to Girardi's.

Girardi took over a team that returned one starter from the rotation and one everyday player. That one player, Cabrera, switched positions LF to 3B. Girardi a first year manager, inherited a team that slashed payroll to a league low 15 million with 4+ tied into one player (Willis) and managed to survive a disatourous 20 games under .500 start. The mess were supposed to be good. There was no expectations for the Marlins. Most thought they would lose then 100 games. Not be within 2 games of .500 and in contention for a wildcard this season after 150 games.

GJH those are fair points about Liriano. He was sick when pitching. Hopefully, his injury is not too bad.

You CANNOT argue in favor of Girardi at this point. If the Marlins won the wild card or at least came close, that would be one thing. But you can't tell me Girardi is the best manager in the league when his team is 3 games under .500, well out of the wild card race and struggling to stay in 3rd in a weak division, REGARDLESS of how bad the team looked at the start of the season. Willie cannot be BLAMED for having all the talent. In any other year, Willie would probably be beaten out by another NL manager whose team beat expectations.

But NO OTHER MANAGER stands out in the crowd. Girardi was the ONLY ONE and his team has come back to earth. San Diego, STL, Philly and LA were SUPPOSED to be contenders. The Reds under Chuck Narron fell completely out of the race. So that leaves Willie BY DEFAULT. The team obliterated any other NL team in its path. Not to mention, even with the division wrapped up in JUNE, the Mets continued to play hard and leave the rest of the NL in the dust. Can you really fault him for having talent to help him? Would Girardi have won 120 games with the team or something? Willie is in his SECOND SEASON, mind you, and as I said, the Mets haven't been contenders for a while. Minaya deserves the most credit for the '06 Mets, but because no other managers came even CLOSE to what Willie's team has accomplished, he will win the award for his work.

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No mention of Morneau????

If he played anywhere but Minnesota he would probably be the favorite.

The media though is all over Jeter and Ortiz...have been for the past 3 months and they will probably end up 1-2 in the voting.

Thomas:If people jump on Ortiz because he is primarily a DH then the same standard should be held for Thomas. His number are unreal though for someone in his 17th season.

That is why alot of these awards mean nothing to me now. Once the media gets into it, it takes guys like Morneau and or Thomas out of the mix.

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my AL MVP list:

1-Jeter

2-Dye

3-Ortiz

4-Santana

5-Morenau

6-Thomas

7-Mauer

8-Vladdy

9-Hafner

10-Damon (yes, not a typo)

11-Thome

12-Sizemore

13-Rivera (missing the last 2 and a half weeks or whatever has really killed his chances of being higher)

14-Nathan

15-Manny

my NL MVP list

1-Pujols

2-Howard

3-Cabrera

4-Reyes

5-Beltran

6-Soriano

7-Berkman

8-Carpenter

9-Wagner

10-Hanley

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Look at the Twins season, and then look at Morneau's production. Right when they went on their tear, he heated up. A lot. Sure Liriano and Santana pitch well, but they provide the games for the runs to count. Justin Morneau has hands down been the most important guy on that team, and now that they are pushing for the playoffs, you have to say MVP.

I say the kid from the Twin Cities should get it.

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Look at the Twins season, and then look at Morneau's production. Right when they went on their tear, he heated up. A lot. Sure Liriano and Santana pitch well, but they provide the games for the runs to count. Justin Morneau has hands down been the most important guy on that team, and now that they are pushing for the playoffs, you have to say MVP.

I say the kid from the Twin Cities should get it.

I agree totally. Morneau would be my pick for mvp. Unfortunately you and I don't get a vote,so Jeter will probably take it,and that would really bother me if I weren't a Yankee fan.

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Morneau: .325/.381/.576, 33 home runs, 125 RBI, 91 runs scored,

Dye: .320/.388/.635, 43 home runs, 118 RBI, 97 runs scored

Ortiz: .282/.403/.625, 50 home runs, 130 RBI, 108 runs scored

Don't see how Morneau is more valuable than Ortiz or Dye. Ortiz and Dye may have protection behind them (Manny and thome), they don't have the league's BA champion in the begining of his lineup

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You CANNOT argue in favor of Girardi at this point. If the Marlins won the wild card or at least came close, that would be one thing. But you can't tell me Girardi is the best manager in the league when his team is 3 games under .500, well out of the wild card race and struggling to stay in 3rd in a weak division, REGARDLESS of how bad the team looked at the start of the season. Willie cannot be BLAMED for having all the talent. In any other year, Willie would probably be beaten out by another NL manager whose team beat expectations.

But NO OTHER MANAGER stands out in the crowd. Girardi was the ONLY ONE and his team has come back to earth. San Diego, STL, Philly and LA were SUPPOSED to be contenders. The Reds under Chuck Narron fell completely out of the race. So that leaves Willie BY DEFAULT. The team obliterated any other NL team in its path. Not to mention, even with the division wrapped up in JUNE, the Mets continued to play hard and leave the rest of the NL in the dust. Can you really fault him for having talent to help him? Would Girardi have won 120 games with the team or something? Willie is in his SECOND SEASON, mind you, and as I said, the Mets haven't been contenders for a while. Minaya deserves the most credit for the '06 Mets, but because no other managers came even CLOSE to what Willie's team has accomplished, he will win the award for his work.

Sorry but I disagree. This was a Marlins team that for all intensive purposes was supposed to lose 100 games this year. Girardi managed to take a team composed almost entirely of rookies and get them to within a few games of teh wildcard before fading out. It would be hard to see a team push for a wild card being as inexperienced as florida is in playing important games in September (kind of like what we're seeing a bit in Detroit), but look at it in the context of it and I think Girardi should be right there for MOY. Not to discredit Willie at all, I think he's done a great job this year. But the Mets were expected to win. The Fish weren't. They especially weren't expected to finish anywhere near where they're goin to.

As for AL MOY, I'll stick with Leyland. Same reason. You don't turn a team from a 90 game loser to a 90 game winner and not expect a handshake and a medal.

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Sorry but I disagree. This was a Marlins team that for all intensive purposes was supposed to lose 100 games this year. Girardi managed to take a team composed almost entirely of rookies and get them to within a few games of teh wildcard before fading out. It would be hard to see a team push for a wild card being as inexperienced as florida is in playing important games in September (kind of like what we're seeing a bit in Detroit), but look at it in the context of it and I think Girardi should be right there for MOY. Not to discredit Willie at all, I think he's done a great job this year. But the Mets were expected to win. The Fish weren't. They especially weren't expected to finish anywhere near where they're goin to.

As for AL MOY, I'll stick with Leyland. Same reason. You don't turn a team from a 90 game loser to a 90 game winner and not expect a handshake and a medal.

intents and purposes, people

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Morneau: .325/.381/.576, 33 home runs, 125 RBI, 91 runs scored,

Dye: .320/.388/.635, 43 home runs, 118 RBI, 97 runs scored

Ortiz: .282/.403/.625, 50 home runs, 130 RBI, 108 runs scored

Don't see how Morneau is more valuable than Ortiz or Dye. Ortiz and Dye may have protection behind them (Manny and thome), they don't have the league's BA champion in the begining of his lineup

So if you're just using numbers to decide, does Jeter get it?

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The Mets payroll barely changed. Piazza, Cameron, Benson, Looper all came off the books and were replaced by Delgado, Wagner and assorted role players.

I agree the team was expected to be good but that shouldn't be held against Willie and the team running away with the division despite a ton of injuries that they never complained about.

Girardi has done a fine job but when you look how Willie has juggled his entire rotation, replaced Matsui with Valentin at 2B and dealt with corner outfield injuries all season while only adding marginal players in Shawn Greene, Roberto Hernandez and Mota, he is the NL Manager of the year.

On Frank Thomas subject, I think he is not only the Comeback Player of the year but also a MVP candidate.

Based on this statement, Torre is the AL MOY. Substitute Torre for Willie and you have your same argument for AL MOY.But he isn't because of your arguments posted earlier regarding Leyland/Gardenhire. So the same logic applies to Giradi. In fact, when adding in the payroll argument, Giradi wins in a landslide. Not even close.

Florida was expected to lose as much as 120 games in 2006. They have a shot at near-break-even. When you start 4 rookies in your rotation, and have more then half your everyday regulars with less then a full year of experience, and vastly exceed expectations, you are the MOY.

Willie did a very fine job. He also had injuries to contend with. But did he win more games then he was expected to? Maybe a few, and that's it. But Giradi may win 35+ more then he was expected to.

That, my good man, is the MOY in the NL.

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AMERICAN LEAGUE

MVP - Derek Jeter

CYY - Johan Santana

ROY - Francisco Liriano

RRA - Joe Nathan

CPOY - Jim Thome

MGR - Leyland if Detriot wins the Central, Gardenhire if the Twins wins the Central

NATIONAL LEAGUE

MVP - Ryan Howard

CYY - Chris Carpenter

ROY - Hanley Ramirez

RRA - Billy Wagner

CPOY - Scott Rolen

MGR - Willie Randolph

Solid selection, all around. There is merit for all of them.

But I disagree with Willie for NL MOY, as stated in a post above.

I also disagree with Thome. He is a reasonable selection, but Thomas has come back from the dead, quite literally!! The last time Thomas made this kind of "noise" was about 4 years ago. That, is a decent comeback, IMO.

AL ROY is a fair choice, but how can a guy who was shut down twice in the span of 5 weeks get it? He didin't even start the season on the big club. Verlander has cooled off, but he survived the whole season. IMO, he gets it, sort of like "Survivor".

Off tpoic, how did that trade the Giants make a few years ago, AJ Perzinski for Nathan and Liarino, work out?? "Disaster" does not even come close to describing it.

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Willie did a very fine job. He also had injuries to contend with. But did he win more games then he was expected to? Maybe a few, and that's it. But Giradi may win 35+ more then he was expected to.

That, my good man, is the MOY in the NL.

hahaha,, in the tick tick tick thread many didnt think that ;)

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So if you're just using numbers to decide, does Jeter get it?

no, I still think Dye and Ortiz are better hitters than Morneau, and that Dye gets a defensive edge by being an outfielder and Ortiz's slugging prowess and ability to get on base outweighs Morneau's defense

but numbers are what keep people from over-estimating a players preformance from the hype from the media (like if someone were to say "Nolan Ryan threw 7 no hitters and is the strike out king, he must be the best pitcher of all time")

Ortiz and Dye had a better effect on their team, although the rest of their teams sucked and failed to hold up their end (unlike Johan Santana, Joe Nathan and Joe Mauer)

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AMERICAN LEAGUE

MVP - Derek Jeter

CYY - Johan Santana

ROY - Francisco Liriano

RRA - Joe Nathan

CPOY - Jim Thome

MGR - Leyland if Detriot wins the Central, Gardenhire if the Twins wins the Central

Come on Ham - Regardless of the rough late August and September, there's no way, NONE, that Leyland doesn't deserve Manager of the year. It's in the bag and there's nothing that can be done about it. Leyland has taken a team with a previous record of 20, 18, 76. 51 & 30 less wins then losses over a 5 year period respecitvely and put them in the hunt for a division title and the best record in the AL.

No offense, Gardenhire did a great job of turning the season around. But he also turned it around to where it should have been the entire time. No one picked the Twinkies to suck and while it's commendable what Gardenhire did, finally getting them to perform to their abilities is what Managers get paid to do. You guys laughed me out of the park in March when I picked the Tigers to even compete for a WC. You all need to admit that there is no way that ANY of you ever thought the Tigers would be where they are now. Hell in June I was STILL hearing the Tigers are a fluke crap.

Leyland just gave the Tigers their first winning season since 1993, with nothing more then a 41 year old Kenny Rogers asn their 'big' offseason acquisition, using home grown talent in rookies Justin Verlander, Joel Zumaya & Curtis Granderson all long making perrenial underachievers under the old regime like Bonderman, Jamie Walker, Craig Monroe and Brandon Inge shine.

Sorry man, that award is Leylands and anything less would be pure robbery.

As for the Verlander vs Liriano/Papelbon debate, I don't agree with you either. Verlander is 16-9 with a 3.63 ERA over 29 Games started and unlike Liriano and Papelbon, he's still around on September 21st. If it was the Rookie of the quarter, first half or Rookie of the first 100 games award they might have an argument, but it's not, It's the Rookie of the Year and part of that award involves endurance down the stretch. Papelbon might be dominant in his role, yet's it's september and the guy who pitches one inning at a time a few games a week is nowhere to be found. Liriano was without a doubt a dominant force with a lower ERA but the fact is, he's home watching things on TV.

ROY Is Verlanders. Anything less is a crime.

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But the Mets were expected to win. The Fish weren't. They especially weren't expected to finish anywhere near where they're goin to.

But the Marlins DID NOT win in the end. They are going to finish in 3rd with a losing record, and are pretty well out of the Wild Card race. Even if the Marlins were expected to lose over 100 games, losing 80-85 isn't a big enough jump to warrant Manager of the Year honors.

If the Marlins were in CONTENTION for a playoff spot, I would agree here. But they aren't. For all intents and purposes, the Fish are done and will finish with an unimpressive record. Girardi would be in my top 3 choices for NL MOY, but its not like he pulled off a miracle. He led the Marlins to what will end up around a 79-83 or 80-82 type of record, which will place them 17-20 games out in their division and about 5 out in the Wild Card. In the weak NL, that IS NOT that impressive despite having some "no-namers" on the squad.

Let me ask you this; would Girardi have done a significantly better job with the Mets, a team that absolutely DOMINATED their league and the same division?

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But the Marlins DID NOT win in the end. They are going to finish in 3rd with a losing record, and are pretty well out of the Wild Card race. Even if the Marlins were expected to lose over 100 games, losing 80-85 isn't a big enough jump to warrant Manager of the Year honors.

If the Marlins were in CONTENTION for a playoff spot, I would agree here. But they aren't. For all intents and purposes, the Fish are done and will finish with an unimpressive record. Girardi would be in my top 3 choices for NL MOY, but its not like he pulled off a miracle. He led the Marlins to what will end up around a 79-83 or 80-82 type of record, which will place them 17-20 games out in their division and about 5 out in the Wild Card. In the weak NL, that IS NOT that impressive despite having some "no-namers" on the squad.

Let me ask you this; would Girardi have done a significantly better job with the Mets, a team that absolutely DOMINATED their league and the same division?

So 'dominating' the 'weak' NL with a team that was expected to do good is more of an accomplishment? :-s

The Mess were supposed to be good. They were supposed to win and be contenders for the title. Many 'media experts' predicted that they would contend/win the division title and some even selcted them for a WS appearance. I do not see where Randolph has done anything exceptional. Yes, he guided a good team and managing the egos is an accomplishment, but not at the level of what Girardi did.

He took over an 83 win team that returned 1 everyday starter who was playing a new position 1 starting pitcher and a team that slashed it's payroll from 60.4 million to 14.9 million. Six of their everyday starters had less then 162 games of combined experience prior to this season. Their rotation after Willis had less then 10 career starts.

This was not just going to be just a 100 loss team. This team had the makings of a 1960 Mets or 2003 Tigers. For the first 42 games, they played that part stumbling to an 11-31 record. After that horrendous start, the team could have tanked the whole season, but they did not. They did eventually break the .500 mark becoming the first team to accomplish the feat of being 20 games under .500 and eventually being above .500 in the same season. At 76-77 and 4 games out, they are still in contention for the WC and a .500 record.

Again, all Willie did was meet expectations. Girardi on the other hand, exceeded expectations by alot. Girardi's Marlins probably came close to doubling the expected win total.

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But the Marlins DID NOT win in the end. They are going to finish in 3rd with a losing record, and are pretty well out of the Wild Card race. Even if the Marlins were expected to lose over 100 games, losing 80-85 isn't a big enough jump to warrant Manager of the Year honors.

If the Marlins were in CONTENTION for a playoff spot, I would agree here. But they aren't. For all intents and purposes, the Fish are done and will finish with an unimpressive record. Girardi would be in my top 3 choices for NL MOY, but its not like he pulled off a miracle. He led the Marlins to what will end up around a 79-83 or 80-82 type of record, which will place them 17-20 games out in their division and about 5 out in the Wild Card. In the weak NL, that IS NOT that impressive despite having some "no-namers" on the squad.

Let me ask you this; would Girardi have done a significantly better job with the Mets, a team that absolutely DOMINATED their league and the same division?

All I'm saying is that I think it attests more to a manager that takes a team with considerable less talent and turn it into a respectable franchise in the span of one season. I'm not saying that his marlins team isn't talented, because it is, but it is talented through potential and not through experience. The Mets have a team full of experienced vets which were put on that team for one reason: to win. Regardless of the manager, that team would have at least been competitive. Now, it was Randolph who turned them into a great team. And kudos to him for it. But I just think that taking a team with zero experience in what was considered by some before the season to be turning into the worst season the Fish would ever have, and to finish 79-83 speaks volumes about who's running the team, in this case, Girardi.

Randolph may, and probably will, win the MOY and I wouldn't have a problem with it if he did. I just think Girardi warrants some serious thought.

It's hard to say what kind of job Girardi would do on the Mets, because I think each manager's particular coaching style is different from team to team. Joe Torre was for the most part a losing manager before coming into the Yankees. Lou Pinella managed a Mariners team that was compettive for years, but then came to Tampa Bay and floundered. I could probably give you some more examples but that would take too long. But what may work well on one team, might not work well for another. And maybe Randolph's coaching style for this particular Mets team is better suited than the coaching style of Girardi.

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Based on this statement, Torre is the AL MOY. Substitute Torre for Willie and you have your same argument for AL MOY.But he isn't because of your arguments posted earlier regarding Leyland/Gardenhire. So the same logic applies to Giradi. In fact, when adding in the payroll argument, Giradi wins in a landslide. Not even close.

Florida was expected to lose as much as 120 games in 2006. They have a shot at near-break-even. When you start 4 rookies in your rotation, and have more then half your everyday regulars with less then a full year of experience, and vastly exceed expectations, you are the MOY.

Willie did a very fine job. He also had injuries to contend with. But did he win more games then he was expected to? Maybe a few, and that's it. But Giradi may win 35+ more then he was expected to.

That, my good man, is the MOY in the NL.

Nope. Torre being a manager of a roster 100mill above the remainder of the leagues payroll will never get my vote for MOY. That's just my opinion.

Listen Girardi and the Marlins is a nice story but at the end of the day they are a .500 team which means they were bad but just not as bad as was expected. We are to reward that?

My earlier vote for Leyland would not hold up now due to the Tiger collapse down the stretch.

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Nope. Torre being a manager of a roster 100mill above the remainder of the leagues payroll will never get my vote for MOY. That's just my opinion.

Listen Girardi and the Marlins is a nice story but at the end of the day they are a .500 team which means they were bad but just not as bad as was expected. We are to reward that?

My earlier vote for Leyland would not hold up now due to the Tiger collapse down the stretch.

But didn't someone earlier post that being a successful manager of millionaires is also a difficult job?

Can't have it both ways. Every argument for Willie, gets the same for Torre. Every argument for Leyland gets the same for Giradi.

Put all "homerism" aside. Put all "fandom" aside. Leyland and Giradi are the correct choices.

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But didn't someone earlier post that being a successful manager of millionaires is also a difficult job?

Can't have it both ways. Every argument for Willie, gets the same for Torre. Every argument for Leyland gets the same for Giradi.

Put all "homerism" aside. Put all "fandom" aside. Leyland and Giradi are the correct choices.

I never stated managing millionaires was a difficult job.

Not sure what the problem is with Mets being mentioned for awards. Willie has been great . It is what it is and we'll just have to see how the voting plays out.

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I never stated managing millionaires was a difficult job.

Not sure what the problem is with Mets being mentioned for awards. Willie has been great . It is what it is and we'll just have to see how the voting plays out.

I did say "someone". I did not imply that you were the someone. But re-read the first page of this thread.

You are right though. We will just have to wait and see what happens. But if the voting is not close, either way, I would be quite surprised.

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