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I think their being late to go to Sanchez had to do with his mediocore minor league numbers. Not many people could've predicted how well he'd pitch in the majors.

The acomplishment is taking a team that was supposed to lose 110 games and losing around 30 games less then expected. thats pretty impressive in my book...

"Supposed to" is thrown out when game 1 starts. That is for prognosticators, and those, as we know are horrible.

YOU want to say the NL is "awful" Fine, I can live with that.

But, If you are then going to try and trumpet the accomplishments of a .500 team in an "awful" league, well I have to call you on that. It makes no sense.

The Marlins are closer in record to the team with the worst record in an awful league, than teh team with the best record in an awful league.

In my book, that is hardly reward worthy. And I am not necessarily pushing Willie either.

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I said 120 you said 101 neither of us had the 100% right numbers and because I wasn't here to argue about the mets payroll a ballpark figure was fine. My point was that the MARLINS have a MUCH LOWER payroll then the mets and thats true no matter what number is right.

silly to get into th epayroll argument,,

u can have great young players who havent reaped the big payday yet (like reyes and wright before recently),, but when they are up for new contracts if the Marlins want to keep them they will have a huge payroll,,

so best way to look at what a manager did is to actually rate t hepitchers and positio nguys to see what he actually has to work with. Those young Marlins will be makin alot of money soon, somewhere, but they are still very talented and capable of alot of wins, regardless of manager

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"Supposed to" is thrown out when game 1 starts. That is for prognosticators, and those, as we know are horrible.

YOU want to say the NL is "awful" Fine, I can live with that.

But, If you are then going to try and trumpet the accomplishments of a .500 team in an "awful" league, well I have to call you on that. It makes no sense.

The Marlins are closer in record to the team with the worst record in an awful league, than teh team with the best record in an awful league.

In my book, that is hardly reward worthy. And I am not necessarily pushing Willie either.

You can make the arguement that expectations don't mean anything and thats fine but a manager taking a team with a 15 million dollar payroll and basicly ALL rookies and playing 500 ball with them and being 4 out of the playoffs in late september in the same division as the mets is a great job any way you spin it.

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silly to get into th epayroll argument,,

u can have great young players who havent reaped the big payday yet (like reyes and wright before recently),, but when they are up for new contracts if the Marlins want to keep them they will have a huge payroll,,

so best way to look at what a manager did is to actually rate t hepitchers and positio nguys to see what he actually has to work with. Those young Marlins will be makin alot of money soon, somewhere, but they are still very talented and capable of alot of wins, regardless of manager

The marlins will be great in 3 years but teams that young hardly EVER play as competitive ball as they have. They are at the same stage as the tigers were 4 years ago when they lost 118 games.

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who did a better job this year? Willie or Torre?

Ehh I'd say they are about even. Torre did a great job holding the team together through the injuries but he's also HORRIBLE at managing the bullpen. Willie did a good job but he really had no competition in the division. Neither of them should win manager of the year.

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Ehh I'd say they are about even. Torre did a great job holding the team together through the injuries but he's also HORRIBLE at managing the bullpen. Willie did a good job but he really had no competition in the division. Neither of them should win manager of the year.

;)

cant bring yourself to say it can ya

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i am bored,, goin home,

my job of unmasking a yankee troll crappin on willie is accomplished ;)

so me saying that he did about as good a job as torre did this year is crapping on him? i know i'm not a met hater but i garuntee you're a yankee hater who would never give the yankees any credit for anything.

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Let me ask you a question. You don't think that if the mets had lost Wright and Delgado for 4 months each and Reyes for almost 2 months that they might have a different record? because thats what the yankees lost in matsui sheffield and cano. Torre don't deserve credit for holding the team together after that?

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Let me ask you a question. You don't think that if the mets had lost Wright and Delgado for 4 months each and Reyes for almost 2 months that they might have a different record? because thats what the yankees lost in matsui sheffield and cano. Torre don't deserve credit for holding the team together after that?

You equate teh Yankees losing outfielders the same as the Mets losing infielders.

What kind of foolhardy equation is that? Everyone knows you can replace outfielders much more easily than infielders. Terrible comparison

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You equate teh Yankees losing outfielders the same as the Mets losing infielders.

What kind of foolhardy equation is that? Everyone knows you can replace outfielders much more easily than infielders. Terrible comparison

Forget what posision they play. I'm talking about OFFENSIVE production in the lineup as a whole.It dosn't matter why posision it is. If you take 2 100 RBI 30 HR hitters out of a lineup for 4 months and another 340 17 90 guy out for 2 months thats VERY hard to overcome.

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Forget what posision they play. I'm talking about OFFENSIVE production in the lineup as a whole.

The Mets lost Floyd at Left Field and had to trade away their starting Right fielder.

Are you trying to play the hypothetical game? That's a tough one to play.

If you are going to take the silly route of trying to make me feel sorry for a 200 million payroll that suffers from injuries, I will laugh directly at your face.

Please don't go down that route.

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The Mets lost Floyd at Right Field and had to trade away their starting Right fielder.

Are you trying to play the hypothetical game? That's a tough one to play.

If you are going to take the silly route of trying to make me feel sorry for a 200 million payroll that suffers from injuries, I will laugh directly at your face.

Please don't go down that route.

First of all neither Floyd or Nady is as good as Matsui or Sheffield. Second of all no matter WHAT the payroll is losing players of that caliber is a huge blow to any team. The yankees obviously don't need sympathy but that dosn't mean that torre dosn't deserve credit for holding the team together behind the scenes.
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First of all neither Floyd or Nady is as good as Matsui or Sheffield. Second of all no matter WHAT the payroll is losing players of that caliber is a huge blow to any team. The yankees obviously don't need sympathy but that dosn't mean that torre dosn't deserve credit for holding the team together behind the scenes.

Your other Yankee brethren would argue that the Yankees are a BETTER TEAM without those players. I would agree.

Exactly what point are you trying to make?

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Your other Yankee brethren would argue that the Yankees are a BETTER TEAM without those players. I would agree.

Exactly what point are you trying to make?

I don't know if i'd say that without Matsui Sheffield and Cano and before the Abreu trade the yankees were better then the mets... I'm trying to defend the fact that Willie and Torre both have pluses and minuses this year and i feel they have done about an equal managing job.

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First of all neither Floyd or Nady is as good as Matsui or Sheffield. Second of all no matter WHAT the payroll is losing players of that caliber is a huge blow to any team. The yankees obviously don't need sympathy but that dosn't mean that torre dosn't deserve credit for holding the team together behind the scenes.

In this case, shouldn't you be voting Grady Little as NL MOY as look at all the players that he lost and all the rookies he is starting.

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I don't know if i'd say that without Matsui Sheffield and Cano and before the Abreu trade the yankees were better then the mets... I'm trying to defend the fact that Willie and Torre both have pluses and minuses this year and i feel they have done about an equal managing job.

I meant that the Yanks were a better OVERALL TEAM without those players. Not in comparison with the Mets. that remains to be seen.

Torre has done a great job this year, one of his best

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I meant that the Yanks were a better OVERALL TEAM without those players. Not in comparison with the Mets. that remains to be seen.

Torre has done a great job this year, one of his best

As i said before torre does a great job behind the scenes but a terrible job managing the bullpen which has cost the yankees games this year.
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