Time to play Schlegel?

[Gibbon]

refutes the claim????

is schelgel playing? is he 2nd string even????

who cares what tressel says,, proof is in pudding,,

he was his coach for gods sake,,

i beleive the fact that schegel isnt on field or even 2nd string, more that what tressel says about a explayer,,

gee,, is that a hard concept? shoudl we start schelgel cause Tressel says he was a swell guy?

Apparantly something still isnt sinking in. Let me try again.

I never said that Tressell's statement about Schlegel meant that he should be playing for the Jets. I mentioned the statement because you or PeteNorth09 claimed that Schlegel only looked good because he played with Hawk and Carpenter and Tressell's statement proves that your (or PN09's statement) was at best uninformed and probably the statement of someone completely ignorant of Ohio State football.

I believe that Schlegel should (and will) get the opportunity to play this season (soon) because he was drafted to be a run stopper and the Jets are struggling stopping the run.

You seem to want to slam Schlegel as a bust for not playing and at the same time keep him off the field so you can call him a bust. This is a Catch22 and poor logic.

To counter your claims that Schlegel hasnt shown anything in practice to be worthy of getting on the field I pointed out (notice this has nothing to do with Jim Tressell) that Schlegel plays the same position as three good ILBs with more experience and therefore probably doesnt get as many reps as those guys and therefore less of a chance to prove himself worthy of dressing and playing. I further said that (based on his being named practice player of the week) I believe that he will get a chance to play sometime soon (and that therefore he has been doing things to improve his position on the team during practice).

I'm sure at this point you are thinking of some snyde point to make about the relative unimportance of "practice player of the week" and that Schlegel still hasnt been able to get on the dress list. To which I would respond by pointing out that he is a rookie and this weeks game will only be the 5th game of the season.

[#27TheDominator]

I didn't like the pick. I think Schlegel's main problem is that he didn't really wow anybody on special teams. I expected Schlegel and Eric Smith to be special team monsters. They weren't in preseason. If Schlegel played well on specials he might dress over on of the other LBs. Then he might see some limited time, like goal line stands.

[Gibbon]

I didn't like the pick. I think Schlegel's main problem is that he didn't really wow anybody on special teams. I expected Schlegel and Eric Smith to be special team monsters. They weren't in preseason. If Schlegel played well on specials he might dress over on of the other LBs. Then he might see some limited time, like goal line stands.

I think you have definitely hit on an important point. The fact that Schlegel hasnt dressed yet probably has more to do with the fact that he hasnt made one of the special teams units yet than anything else.

This is dissapointing. Westhoff demands alot more from his special teams units than most other teams and his word about who he needs on specials carries alot of weight. His and Mangini's constant desire to upgrade special teams explains Ryan Myer being cut and Cody Spencer being brought in. Neither of those guys is expected to contribute on Defense, but are strictly special teams LBS. I suspect that most teams dress their rookie LBs for special teams because they want them to play and figure the drop off wont be that big a deal. Mangini and Westhoff are perfectionists and they want the best possible special teams guys to play special teams. If you put Schlegel, who didnt play much special teams at tOSU, up against a professional special teams LB he probably isnt going to look real good. Right now the Jets have three LBs who more or less fit the description of a professional special teams linebacker -- Chatham, Spencer, and Kassell -- before last season I believe this was Kassells primary role. Ironically, Schlegel may have more chance of getting to dress as a Defensive sub than as a special teamer.

[JetCane]

If you put Schlegel, who didnt play much special teams at OSU*

That is very telling. A starting LB who isnt adept enough to play ST in college.

Vilma, McClover, DJ, Leon Johnson, Beason now, they all played special teams.

Schlegel and Coleman have the flaw that often afflicts solid Big 10 players: they are too slow.

[Gibbon]

Sorry I should have been clearer.

Schlegel didnt play special teams at tOSU the last part of his junior year because he had a knee injury that required surgery after the season. His senior year he was rehabing the knee through the spring and the coaches didnt want to risk reinjury on specials early so he didnt see action on the return or coverage teams but did see action on FG and EXP coverage. Granted there really isnt much action there. His failure to play specials at tOSU had more to do with injury than with a lack of speed. The guys runs about a 4.75. That aint burning it up or anything, but its not like he is impossibly slow over short distances. Reports of his slowness have been vastly exagerated.

[JetCane]

Reports of his slowness have been vastly exagerated.

I really hope he gets in the game soon so we can all watch him and have some current basis to assess him.

Being slow isnt always about 40 times. The step up in the speed of play at the pro level is a little too much for some guys. His inexperience at ST isnt helping him.

[Preston Howley III]

Hey Gibbon, thanks for the feedback. I for one haven't given up on Schlegel-

Heck, he hasn't even had a chance to play yet.

The reason why I think Schlegel would be a good fit right now is, he strikes me as the kind of guy who really doesn't care what the assignment is, as long as he gets to play.

And I just think he would be the perfect guy to take on whatever guard who didn't have to double team Rerun and is looking for Vilma.

I think he would really enjoy that. Quite frankly, I just think the guys on the field right now don't want to be anybody elses second fiddle, they're too busy looking to make the play themselves, and tackle the RB. We need a guy out there who doesn't give a sht if it's him getting all the glory while doing the grunt work.

I think for the first few weeks we experienced the same crap with trying to run the ball, you got guys who just don't want to block. Well, now we got a guy, Sean Ryan, who's willing to do anything, just to suit up on Sunday.

Look, the way I see it, suiting up Schlegel-

It can't get any worse, so why not?

[Gibbon]

I really hope he gets in the game soon so we can all watch him and have some current basis to assess him.

Being slow isnt always about 40 times. The step up in the speed of play at the pro level is a little too much for some guys. His inexperience at ST isnt helping him.

I agree with this post completely. Only game conditions will really be able to test whether he can get it done. But, what we will all need to keep in mind when he does play is that he wont be perfect. Vilma, Barton, Ray Lewis, Dick Butkus, etc made mistakes and Schlegel will too.

[EM31]

It is clearly premature to label schlegel as a bust at this point. Yes he had a couple of awful moments in the preseason but he was also to be found making solid contact at the point of attack on other plays in that same game.

Of course natural speed helps at any position on this level but it is very possible to play ILB in the NFL with so-so speed if you bring other tools to the table. Smarts and toughness being two of those. How fast was Kyle Clifton? Vilma is fast as hell and gets freight-trained on a regular basis, yet many here go through extraordinarly torturous logic to explain why none of that is really his fault. Pick your poison.

BLT was a complete bust as a FIRST-ROUNDER until he became not a complete bust.

If we look back two years from now and find no regular season Schlegel moments and no special teams moments then bust will be the correct call. Maybe even at this point next year if he shows absolutely nothing. But come on now, we are in week 5 of year one in his NFL career.

[AFJF]

I never like to say a player was a bad pick without having the chance to play. What makes this situation different IMO is that we have a HC who is more than willing to let young guys get on the field. I think we've seen a little bit of each of our rookies on the roster except Clemens (for obvious reasons) and Schlegel. Schlegel is a concern because our run defense has been so bad I'd expect him to get a shot with a different LB getting a rest on some of these long drives we're seeing. I'm not quitting on the guy, just wondering how much he's shown if he's one of the few rooks not getting on the field. If this were Herm, we could consider it a possibility that Schlegel has all-world talent with Marvin Jones playing in front of him.

[JetCane]

Good point about the other young guys playing, AF.

Additionally, if putting Schlegel in means Barton or Vilma sits, I dont see the advantage.

[Gibbon]

I never like to say a player was a bad pick without having the chance to play. What makes this situation different IMO is that we have a HC who is more than willing to let young guys get on the field. I think we've seen a little bit of each of our rookies on the roster except Clemens (for obvious reasons) and Schlegel. Schlegel is a concern because our run defense has been so bad I'd expect him to get a shot with a different LB getting a rest on some of these long drives we're seeing. I'm not quitting on the guy, just wondering how much he's shown if he's one of the few rooks not getting on the field. If this were Herm, we could consider it a possibility that Schlegel has all-world talent with Marvin Jones playing in front of him.

You pose a good question, but how many of the other rookies had as many NFL calibre starters in front of them as Schlegel and Clemmons?

D' Brick -- No

Mangold -- No

Leon Washington -- No injury and uncertainty

Eric Smith -- there are some vets at his position but there isnt much depth or

at least there isnt as much healthy depth.

Brad Smith -- he's a hybrid. There wasnt any competition at that position.

The fact that he could step in and play QB in an emergency,

but you can carry him as a WR and a PR meant that as long

as he proved he could get it done he'd be out there.

Schlegel's competition on D includes Vilma (which really just narrows the spots for ILBs to play to 1 position) Barton and Kassell. This is actually tougher than Clemons competition -- Pennington, Ramsey, and Smith.

His special teams competition includes Kassell (again) Chatham (special teams captain) and now Spencer (special teams specialist brought in to replace special teams specialist Ryan Myers).

You can question why he hasnt seen any PT, but you have to keep in mind that he is facing the highest level of competition for PT of any rookie.

[AFJF]

You pose a good question, but how many of the other rookies had as many NFL calibre starters in front of them as Schlegel and Clemmons?

D' Brick -- No

Mangold -- No

Leon Washington -- No injury and uncertainty

Eric Smith -- there are some vets at his position but there isnt much depth or

at least there isnt as much healthy depth.

Brad Smith -- he's a hybrid. There wasnt any competition at that position.

The fact that he could step in and play QB in an emergency,

but you can carry him as a WR and a PR meant that as long

as he proved he could get it done he'd be out there.

Schlegel's competition on D includes Vilma (which really just narrows the spots for ILBs to play to 1 position) Barton and Kassell. This is actually tougher than Clemons competition -- Pennington, Ramsey, and Smith.

His special teams competition includes Kassell (again) Chatham (special teams captain) and now Spencer (special teams specialist brought in to replace special teams specialist Ryan Myers).

You can question why he hasnt seen any PT, but you have to keep in mind that he is facing the highest level of competition for PT of any rookie.

Good points but take in to account the fact that Mangini comes from NE where BB does the same thing. At the very least he takes a peek at what each guy can do on the field. That was the single biggest change I expected from Herm to Mangini. A willingness to let every guy on the roster show something.

Also, as I had said...with some of the long drives our defense has surrendered, I would think if Schlagel was any good at all he would have been plugged in for one or two series to give another LB a breather and to see how he does in game situations.

Again, I'm not about to quit on the guy...way too early for that. I'm just surprised we haven't seen him. Especially on goal line situations. His strength is supposed to be against the run. I'm not sure if he was on the field against Tenn. during their two point conversions but it seems to me that goal line situations would suit him best. High probability for a run (his strength) and very little ground to cover on a pass (limiting his weakness).

JMO

[faba]

Considering that Schlegel's strength is supposedly defending against the run and the staff has not seen fit to put him in there yet is not a good sign obviously. Too early to call any rookie a bust though. Sometimes you have to have patience so that is how I view him right now.

[SouthernJet]

I think you have definitely hit on an important point. The fact that Schlegel hasnt dressed yet probably has more to do with the fact that he hasnt made one of the special teams units yet than anything else.

This is dissapointing. Westhoff demands alot more from his special teams units than most other teams and his word about who he needs on specials carries alot of weight. His and Mangini's constant desire to upgrade special teams explains Ryan Myer being cut and Cody Spencer being brought in. Neither of those guys is expected to contribute on Defense, but are strictly special teams LBS. I suspect that most teams dress their rookie LBs for special teams because they want them to play and figure the drop off wont be that big a deal. Mangini and Westhoff are perfectionists and they want the best possible special teams guys to play special teams. If you put Schlegel, who didnt play much special teams at tOSU, up against a professional special teams LB he probably isnt going to look real good. Right now the Jets have three LBs who more or less fit the description of a professional special teams linebacker -- Chatham, Spencer, and Kassell -- before last season I believe this was Kassells primary role. Ironically, Schlegel may have more chance of getting to dress as a Defensive sub than as a special teamer.

wrong, if he cant crack special teams he will be cut next year,, unless he starts as LB..

hope he makes it,, but please dont use tressel anymore, ,he has proven he has serious character flaws as a human being and wouldnt put much stock in this thug collector

[Gibbon]

[quote name='

Also, as I had said...with some of the long drives our defense has surrendered, I would think if Schlagel was any good at all he would have been plugged in for one or two series to give another LB a breather and to see how he does in game situations.

JMO[/quote']

Since he hasnt dressed for a game yet, he cant have been plugged in for any series to this point. This is a big part of my point about the guys who play the same position as Schlegel. For him to make the dress list he has to get into the two deep at ILB or beat out one of the special teams LB specialists. Since Kassell can play either ILB position Coach M saves himself a roster spot by just dressing Kassell for ILB. Because two (three if you count Kassell) of the ST spots are occupied by LBs whose primary purpose is to play special teams and whose careers have been based on their special teams play it makes it more difficult for Schlegel to earn a spot on the 45 man dress list and therefore Mangini cant use him in a game.

Look, I'm not saying that I'm not dissapointed that Schlegel hasnt played. It is a concern. All I'm saying is that comparing his situation to any other rookies is a little unfair because of the depth and experience in front of him. Combine this with Westhoff and Mangini's willingness to carry two LBs just for the ST ability and its hard for Schlegel to make the dress list.

[SouthernJet]

Since he hasnt dressed for a game yet, he cant have been plugged in for any series to this point. This is a big part of my point about the guys who play the same position as Schlegel. For him to make the dress list he has to get into the two deep at ILB or beat out one of the special teams LB specialists. Since Kassell can play either ILB position Coach M saves himself a roster spot by just dressing Kassell for ILB. Because two (three if you count Kassell) of the ST spots are occupied by LBs whose primary purpose is to play special teams and whose careers have been based on their special teams play it makes it more difficult for Schlegel to earn a spot on the 45 man dress list and therefore Mangini cant use him in a game.

Look, I'm not saying that I'm not dissapointed that Schlegel hasnt played. It is a concern. All I'm saying is that comparing his situation to any other rookies is a little unfair because of the depth and experience in front of him. Combine this with Westhoff and Mangini's willingness to carry two LBs just for the ST ability and its hard for Schlegel to make the dress list.

hopefully he makes it,,

his smarts seem to be his biggest asset

[Gibbon]

wrong, if he cant crack special teams he will be cut next year,, unless he starts as LB..

hope he makes it,, but please dont use tressel anymore, ,he has proven he has serious character flaws as a human being and wouldnt put much stock in this thug collector

You could be right about the first part of your statement. Next year more will be expected from Schlegel, but I suspect one of those other ILBs will not be with the team next year.

As far as Tressell is concerned I used his statement not to support or refute statements about Schlegel's character, but about his playing ability. Tressell's ability to evaluate football talent is probably more acute than his ability to judge character. That said, Tressell has a pretty good record of suspending and/ or kicking players off the team who violate the law and NCAA rules. You might take note of the fact that after the stories about Clarret broke that he did not play another down of footbal for tOSU.

[Gibbon]

hopefully he makes it,,

his smarts seem to be his biggest asset

This is true, but I would add toughness and work ethic to that list.

[SouthernJet]

You could be right about the first part of your statement. Next year more will be expected from Schlegel, but I suspect one of those other ILBs will not be with the team next year.

As far as Tressell is concerned I used his statement not to support or refute statements about Schlegel's character, but about his playing ability. Tressell's ability to evaluate football talent is probably more acute than his ability to judge character. That said, Tressell has a pretty good record of suspending and/ or kicking players off the team who violate the law and NCAA rules. You might take note of the fact that after the stories about Clarret broke that he did not play another down of footbal for tOSU.

i know, ,tressel is a great gameday coach,,

just some of the stuff taht came out looked like he looke dthe other way,, mainly the 'tutor' stuff..

[Gibbon]

i know, ,tressel is a great gameday coach,,

just some of the stuff taht came out looked like he looke dthe other way,, mainly the 'tutor' stuff..

Fair enough. It did seem that Tressell was either intentionally ignorant of what was going on or just naive and unaware.

[JetCane]

That is very telling. A starting LB who isnt adept enough to play ST in college.

Vilma, McClover, DJ, Leon Johnson, Beason now, they all played special teams.

Schlegel and Coleman have the flaw that often afflicts solid Big 10 players: they are too slow.

CORRECTION. I meant to say Schlegel and E. SMITH are the Big 10 players who may be too slow.

[SouthernJet]

CORRECTION. I meant to say Schlegel and E. SMITH are the Big 10 players who may be too slow.

like thier basketball players