Chad Question...

[strange_andy]

Before the season many, if not a majority, wanted to see someone else besides Chad take over the reigns of the Jets or see him gone after this season.

If Chad can stay healthy and start all 16 games this season with a decent to good record (including personal stats), who would you like to see as the QB for the Jets beginning 2007?

I'm behind #10 100%.

[strange_andy]

No need to answer TX, I know.

[PatsFanTX]

No need to answer TX, I know.

Just to go on record, PennyBoy will never take the Jets to the Promised Land.

[Maxman]

Just to go on record, PennyBoy will never take the Jets to the Promised Land.

You don't believe that.

[PatsFanTX]

You don't believe that.

I absolutely do.

Based on his performance over his entire career, what specific indicator tells you that PennyBoy could beat a very good, defensive minded team, in the Divisional Round, AFC Championship game or the friggn' Super Bowl?

He hasn't done it yet, and it is pure homerism, if you think he can.

Have another sip of kool aide Max.

[aec4]

Well a decent FG kicker, and he did it in the divisional round.. I know... woulda-shoulda-coulda, but I think he showed he could do it with a torn rotator cuff no less.

[PatsFanTX]

Well a decent FG kicker, and he did it in the divisional round.

You couldn't be more wrong.

In PennyBoy's last Divisional playoff game, he led the Jets offense to a whopping 3 points in 5 quarters of football.

Brien didn't lose that game, PennyBoy did.

If PennyBoy was half the QB you clowns think he is, the Jets would have played for the AFC Championship game in Foxboro that year.

Brien was the scapegoat, PennyBoy was the real reason the Jets lost.

[EM31]

TX is feeling the man-love for the Chad'ster he just hasn't figured out how to have his Jimmy Swaggart coming to Jesus moment in public is all. "Lord I have sinned against you and the entire Jets Nation... <sniff> <sniff>...." Well, something along those lines anyway.

Baby steps TX, baby steps. You can begin by fessing up to the notion that you are firmly in the camp of those who felt that our Penny would never again perform as well as he has done so far this year. And that you were wrong to think that. I say "our Penny" because I know that after all this time you have grown to admire him. "I have worshipped at the altar of false quarterbacks lord.... Vile, sinful quarterbacks who look upon other men with lust in their hearts..."

Trust me it would go over well. Maybe we couldn't get yhou on Oprah but Beningo might not be out of the question....

[PatsFanTX]

Baby steps TX, baby steps. You can begin by fessing up to the notion that you are firmly in the camp of those who felt that our Penny would never again perform as well as he has done so far this year.

EM,

What is your definition of "performing well"?

Putting up big stats against two bottom feeding teams in the NFL?

Throwing for 300+ yards against the Pats when his team was down 24-0?

Bottom line, in the NFL, it's all about wins and losses.

PennyBoy did a great job leading the Jets to victory against two poor teams.

When he played the big boys, the results were the same as always; a Jets loss.

Let me know when PennyBoyWonder beats an elite NFL team.

Trust me, I won't hold my breath.

[Pragmatic Bus]

You couldn't be more wrong.

In PennyBoy's last Divisional playoff game, he led the Jets offense to a whopping 3 points in 5 quarters of football.

Brien didn't lose that game, PennyBoy did.

If PennyBoy was half the QB you clowns think he is, the Jets would have played for the AFC Championship game in Foxboro that year.

Brien was the scapegoat, PennyBoy was the real reason the Jets lost.

i agree with tx over her. normally i dont. but unless penny boy proves me i'm noot buyin. this is a "show me" league not a "i think he can do it" league

[PatsFanTX]

i agree with tx over her. normally i dont. but unless penny boy proves me i'm noot buyin. this is a "show me" league not a "i think he can do it" league

Thank you, it's nice to get a realistic perspective from a Jets fan.

[JerryK]

It would be nice to see a complete season first.

[EM31]

EM,

What is your definition of "performing well"?

Putting up big stats against two bottom feeding teams in the NFL?

Throwing for 300+ yards against the Pats when his team was down 24-0?

Bottom line, in the NFL, it's all about wins and losses.

PennyBoy did a great job leading the Jets to victory against two poor teams.

When he played the big boys, the results were the same as always; a Jets loss.

Let me know when PennyBoyWonder beats an elite NFL team.

Trust me, I won't hold my breath.

TX,

Teams beat teams. An impartial observer would probably agree that the Jets failings this year have been more because the defense has not held up its end of the deal rather than problems with the offense. Please note that this is also all happening with zero running game. 31st in the league coming into last week. Chad Pennington has played well. Physically he has shown no after effects of the two surguries and in fact to these eyes he seems to have a little more mustard on the ball if anything. There really have never been questions about his football smarts and his ability to manage a game. Everything else being equal, the smarter field general is going to walk away a winner more often than not.

The Jets were an awful team last year and not all of that was Herman Edwards. We have fairly big talent gaps in all areas which still need to be addressed. Mangini has been doing much of this with smoke and mirrors and the time tested appraoch of not standing in the way if the other team is intent on self destructing. Even so we managed to throw a pretty decent sized scare into a very good Colts team this week even if they were looking past us a little bit. Guess what, we are "improved". In fact I think that kickoff return by Miller cost us the game because I think we were going to move down the field for a win or a tie the way the game was going.

I don't know how you measure excellence. Let me stipulate for the record my opinion that Tom Brady end up as the best quarterback to ever play the game when he finally hangs them up. I think he in the top three already depending on who is doing the counting. That said this is a game of teams and Chad has not had the benefit of good teams around him very often or he has been burdened by truly attrocious coaching during much of his pro career. When even partially healthy all the signs are that he can take a good team deep into a playoff run.

I understand there are questions about his health and the only way to address those is to take hits and stay healthy. That will dog him probably for the rest of his career unless he goes five whole seasons without missing a snap. I am not a doctor so I don't know but I would put it to you that he has already performed way better than many people would have predicted.

The were non-medical peaople on many Jets boards who were firmly of the opinion that Chad would never play a meaningful or well played game ever again at the NFL level. I for one have been quite impressed so far this year. The team still needs alot of work but Chad along with LC, Cotchery and Mangold have been gold up to this point.

Please enumerate for me your current list of "elite" teams so there will be no ambiguity if we should ever go out and beat one of them.

P.S. I do understand the use of the term "Pennyboy" but be aware also that if you continue to use it then you are possibly exposing yourself to charges that your are preoccupied with "boys" who play althletic sports. Somewhat like that Republican congressman who is finding himself in so much hot water of late.

[PatsFanTX]

TX,

Teams beat teams. An impartial observer would probably agree that the Jets failings this year have been more because the defense has not held up its end of the deal rather than problems with the offense. Please note that this is also all happening with zero running game. 31st in the league coming into last week. Chad Pennington has played well. Physically he has shown no after effects of the two surguries and in fact to these eyes he seems to have a little more mustard on the ball if anything. There really have never been questions about his football smarts and his ability to manage a game. Everything else being equal, the smarter field general is going to walk away a winner more often than not.

The Jets were an awful team last year and not all of that was Herman Edwards. We have fairly big talent gaps in all areas which still need to be addressed. Mangini has been doing much of this with smoke and mirrors and the time tested appraoch of not standing in the way if the other team is intent on self destructing. Even so we managed to throw a pretty decent sized scare into a very good Colts team this week even if they were looking past us a little bit. Guess what, we are "improved". In fact I think that kickoff return by Miller cost us the game because I think we were going to move down the field for a win or a tie the way the game was going.

I don't know how you measure excellence. Let me stipulate for the record my opinion that Tom Brady end up as the best quarterback to ever play the game when he finally hangs them up. I think he in the top three already depending on who is doing the counting. That said this is a game of teams and Chad has not had the benefit of good teams around him very often or he has been burdened by truly attrocious coaching during much of his pro career. When even partially healthy all the signs are that he can take a good team deep into a playoff run.

I understand there are questions about his health and the only way to address those is to take hits and stay healthy. That will dog him probably for the rest of his career unless he goes five whole seasons without missing a snap. I am not a doctor so I don't know but I would put it to you that he has already performed way better than many people would have predicted.

The were non-medical peaople on many Jets boards who were firmly of the opinion that Chad would never play a meaningful or well played game ever again at the NFL level. I for one have been quite impressed so far this year. The team still needs alot of work but Chad along with LC, Cotchery and Mangold have been gold up to this point.

Please enumerate for me your current list of "elite" teams so there will be no ambiguity if we should ever go out and beat one of them.

P.S. I do understand the use of the term "Pennyboy" but be aware also that if you continue to use it then you are possibly exposing yourself to charges that your are preoccupied with "boys" who play althletic sports. Somewhat like that Republican congressman who is finding himself in so much hot water of late.

EM,

I owe you a response to that post.

It's been a lousy, long day.

I'll respond to you in the AM.

[GimmeShelter]

I absolutely do.

Based on his performance over his entire career, what specific indicator tells you that PennyBoy could beat a very good, defensive minded team, in the Divisional Round, AFC Championship game or the friggn' Super Bowl?

He hasn't done it yet, and it is pure homerism, if you think he can.

Have another sip of kool aide Max.

Notice how the play-off rounds have been conveniently shortened to support TX's argument. Pennington's Jets are 2-2 in the play-offs.

His two losses were to better teams than the Jets. Same for Brady's losses in 05. Your argument is like us asking what proof do you have that Brady can win a divisional round, championship game or SB game without Charlie Weiss.

Chad's health which has triggered his return to form has aggravated your OCD condition.

[#27TheDominator]

Notice how the play-off rounds have been conveniently shortened to support TX's argument. Pennington's Jets are 2-2 in the play-offs.

His two losses were to better teams than the Jets. Same for Brady's losses in 05. Your argument is like us asking what proof do you have that Brady can win a divisional round, championship game or SB game without Charlie Weiss.

Chad's health which has triggered his return to form has aggravated your OCD condition.

Tex is right, Pennington didn't put up big numbers against the Steelers in '04. He was 21-33 for 182 with a pick and no TDs. The Pats demolished them the following week, Brady was 14 for 21 and 207 yards, but 2 tds and no picks. Of course, Pennington delayed his shoulder surgery until after the season. You remember, the shoulder surgery that he wasn't supposed to come back from?

One thing I don't buy is that Penny's throwing with more velocity than ever before. I hope his throws continue to get better, because he is still limited in the throws he can make. Don't see why that means we should dump him prior to having somebody better.

[GimmeShelter]

Tex is right, Pennington didn't put up big numbers against the Steelers in '04. He was 21-33 for 182 with a pick and no TDs. The Pats demolished them the following week, Brady was 14 for 21 and 207 yards, but 2 tds and no picks. Of course, Pennington delayed his shoulder surgery until after the season. You remember, the shoulder surgery that he wasn't supposed to come back from?

One thing I don't buy is that Penny's throwing with more velocity than ever before. I hope his throws continue to get better, because he is still limited in the throws he can make. Don't see why that means we should dump him prior to having somebody better.

True the Pats beat the Steelers in 04 after we lost but not many other teams had any success against that defense.

You guys make it sound as if struggling against the 04 Steelers and Patriots was exclusive to just the Jets and more so, a injured Pennington.

[joewilly]

Thank you, it's nice to get a realistic perspective from a Jets fan.

pennington > brady ..........good morning tx

[bitonti]

considering Chad's long history of arm weakness and his own admitted mechanics problems we can't use 2004 as an example why Chad can't win a divisional playoff game

he's got a new arm and a new throwing motion

new chad can beat anyone

[AFJF]

I love the spin Tx. After your Pats narrowly escaped Buffalo with a victory I recall you saying that Buffalo had "maybe the fastest defense in the NFL" and they were "better than people thought they would be". Now that the Jets went in to that same stadium and beat that same team, they're "bottom feeders":yawn:

[EM31]

I love the spin Tx. After your Pats narrowly escaped Buffalo with a victory I recall you saying that Buffalo had "maybe the fastest defense in the NFL" and they were "better than people thought they would be". Now that the Jets went in to that same stadium and beat that same team, they're "bottom feeders":yawn:

"Bottom feeders".... There's a Tom Brady joke in there somewhere methinks.

[strange_andy]

I love the spin Tx. After your Pats narrowly escaped Buffalo with a victory I recall you saying that Buffalo had "maybe the fastest defense in the NFL" and they were "better than people thought they would be". Now that the Jets went in to that same stadium and beat that same team, they're "bottom feeders":yawn:

TX does it all the time. Watch, if the Phins take the Pats down to the wire, TX will be inflating the Phins D and placing Saban on his "to-suck-off" list.

Reading his stuff exhausts me, I have to go back to bed now.

[PatsFanTX]

new chad can beat anyone

Right, too bad he still can't beat the Pats and Colts.

[EM31]

For TX,

False Dichotomy - The logical fallacy of false dilemma, also known as fallacy of the excluded middle, false dichotomy, either/or dilemma or bifurcation, is to set up two alternative points of view as if they were the only options, when they are not.

[PatsFanTX]

For TX,

False Dichotomy - The logical fallacy of false dilemma, also known as fallacy of the excluded middle, false dichotomy, either/or dilemma or bifurcation, is to set up two alternative points of view as if they were the only options, when they are not.

For EM31:

de

[EM31]

For EM31:

de

[#27TheDominator]

I feel like I'm as SAT prep.

[DW10]

Oh for God's sake you knuckleheads. ...and i'm really not trying to start stuff, BUT, bottom line, Pennington still has a noodle arm and is just an average QB. THAT'S IT!! A-V-E-R-A-G-E!!!!!A-V-E-R-A-G-E!!!!

There's really nothing that can be said or shown to dispute that.

A-V-E-R-A-G-E

[#27TheDominator]

Oh for God's sake you knuckleheads. ...and i'm really not trying to start stuff, BUT, bottom line, Pennington still has a noodle arm and is just an average QB. THAT'S IT!! A-V-E-R-A-G-E!!!!!A-V-E-R-A-G-E!!!!

There's really nothing that can be said or shown to dispute that.

A-V-E-R-A-G-E

You using the mean or median to determine average? Average starter or average in the NFL or average of all people playing qb professionally?

[EM31]

Oh for God's sake you knuckleheads. ...and i'm really not trying to start stuff, BUT, bottom line, Pennington still has a noodle arm and is just an average QB. THAT'S IT!! A-V-E-R-A-G-E!!!!!A-V-E-R-A-G-E!!!!

There's really nothing that can be said or shown to dispute that.

A-V-E-R-A-G-E

Are we using the larger fonts to compensate for a lack of size elsewhere perhaps?

His arm is good enough period. Canon arms and two cent IQ's (can you relate?) are common as dirt on the NFL unemployment line. If a canon arm were all that was required then people like Ryan Leaf would probably still be drawing a paycheck.

Is there a maximum IQ size requirement before which you can become a Dolphin fan? All others are schlepped off to Jacksonville or something?

[DW10]

then tell me what Pennyboy has done. And don't tell me you guys beat the Colts in the playoffs a few years ago. I'll just come back and say that Fiedler beat the Colts the year before in the playoffs too.

But WHAT has the great Pennyboy done to help you clowns win on a consistent basis. What has he done to seperate your team from others that other QB's aren't capable of.

On the other hand, I can understand and appreciate your unwavering homerism, as I think the Dolphins are still going to the Superbowl. So, if it's not homerism, tell me why he's better than average...or as many of you say, borderline great.

[DireJet38]

then tell me what Pennyboy has done. And don't tell me you guys beat the Colts in the playoffs a few years ago. I'll just come back and say that Fiedler beat the Colts the year before in the playoffs too.

But WHAT has the great Pennyboy done to help you clowns win on a consistent basis. What has he done to seperate your team from others that other QB's aren't capable of.

On the other hand, I can understand and appreciate your unwavering homerism, as I think the Dolphins are still going to the Superbowl. So, if it's not homerism, tell me why he's better than average...or as many of you say, borderline great.

Leader.

Smart.

Good red zone percentages.

Magages the game well.

Puts the team in a position to win.

Minimizes to's.

Playoff experience.

Unselfish.

[strange_andy]

then tell me what Pennyboy has done. And don't tell me you guys beat the Colts in the playoffs a few years ago. I'll just come back and say that Fiedler beat the Colts the year before in the playoffs too.

But WHAT has the great Pennyboy done to help you clowns win on a consistent basis. What has he done to seperate your team from others that other QB's aren't capable of.

On the other hand, I can understand and appreciate your unwavering homerism, as I think the Dolphins are still going to the Superbowl. So, if it's not homerism, tell me why he's better than average...or as many of you say, borderline great.

For one, Pennington has not played on a consistent basis.

I have no idea why people like this have a hard time accepting that Chad Pennington is a good NFL QB, notice I said GOOD and not GREAT. I do belive he has to prove that he can guide the Jets offense against the top tier defenses with W's before he can be labeled great.

But like pasts posts have stated, the guy has been injured every season, has been under bad coaching, and (at times) the personel have not been there.

So far this season Chad has proven that he's back and has put up the numbers to back it up, although not the wins, due to a porous Jets defense.

ADMIT THAT PENNINGTON HAS DONE HIS JOB!

[#27TheDominator]

For one, Pennington has not played on a consistent basis.

I have no idea why people like this have a hard time accepting that Chad Pennington is a good NFL QB, notice I said GOOD and not GREAT. I do belive he has to prove that he can guide the Jets offense against the top tier defenses with W's before he can be labeled great.

But like pasts posts have stated, the guy has been injured every season, has been under bad coaching, and (at times) the personel have not been there.

So far this season Chad has proven that he's back and has put up the numbers to back it up, although not the wins, due to a porous Jets defense.

ADMIT THAT PENNINGTON HAS DONE HIS JOB!

Couldn't agree more. Pennington does his job. He almost never loses the game for you. Even in the Steelers game that Tex loves to cite, he managed the game well and had us in a position to win, even with a coach that works the clock worse than a trained hamster.

[war ensemble]

Just to go on record, PennyBoy will never take the Jets to the Promised Land.

It's about time someone brings us to the Promised Land, we've been wandering in the desert for forty years!