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3rd round pick: LB Anthony Schlegel


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I know I spelled his name wrong but what happened to this guy? Hes on the practice squad? Couldn't even make the active roster?

This is a case when Tan-gini went with too many boyscouts and not enough talent. I didnt like the pick then, hate it now.

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In all my life, I have never seen this amount of attention on a third round draft pick.

I think some of the extra attention is due to the fact that he was the first defensive player selected by this regime, and hasnt panned out yet. In fact, he and E Smith are the first TWO defensive players taken in the 2006 by the NYJ, and neither has distinguished themselves. The only defensive player they drafted that has made an impact at all is D Coleman.

In a year where the defensive flaws have been glaring, I dont find it unusual to wonder what happened to our first defensive pick of the 2006 draft.

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I think some of the extra attention is due to the fact that he was the first defensive player selected by this regime, and hasnt panned out yet. In fact, he and E Smith are the first TWO defensive players taken in the 2006 by the NYJ, and neither has distinguished themselves. The only defensive player they drafted that has made an impact at all is D Coleman.

In a year where the defensive flaws have been glaring, I dont find it unusual to wonder what happened to our first defensive pick of the 2006 draft.

Fair enough, but off the top of your head without looking can you name all the 3rd round picks Edwards/Dumbway made?

Or even Parcells and Groh for that matter.

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Fair enough, but off the top of your head without looking can you name all the 3rd round picks Edwards/Dumbway made?

Or even Parcells and Groh for that matter.

Are you kidding me? I had to look up the 2006 draft picks to make sure I had it right before I posted Lol

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Exactly.;)

We can second guess Schlegel (and Smith to a lesser extent) until the cows come home. Bigger Faux Pas' have occured.

What do you think about Leon Washington and Brad Smith, though? :Typotux:

I liked the Leon pick from day one.

After seeing him and Smith in tc I knew they would have good seasons.

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I feel like I post this once a week, but given Mangini's comments during Wednesday's press conference this week I think a number of things about Schlegel's situation are now clear.

1. Mangini is happy with the progress Schlegel has made and he will give Schlegel opportunities to play at some point this season if his development continues.

2. The deepest position (not just numbers but quality) on the team is/was ILB (Schlegel's position) Vilma and Barton were going to be starters and the addition of the experienced Brad Kassell meant that Schlegel had a tough row to hoe in the preseason to earn early playing time. For all intents and purposes Kassell backs up Barton and Vilma now matter what the depth chart says.

3. Mangini addressed the special teams issue with Schlegel somewhat mentioning that the guys in front of him have been doing a good job so finding his niche there has been difficult. I thought he would have been on ST instead of Riddle the last two weeks but after Riddle was brought in to play a special pass rush package near the end of the Lions game the decision to play him on ST instead of Schlegel seemed clear. Why put Schlegel on ST when you want to try Riddle as a pass rusher in the dime package?

Its important to keep in mind that no matter the cirumstances or the consensus of opinion of the pick, Schlegel was a 3rd rounder and not a first. A third round pick can be a project pick who the coaches have little intention of playing the first year and whose playing time will come primarily on ST. However, if that player isnt in the two deep (Because you didnt intend to put him in the two deep) then there might be more priority given to dressing another guy who you want to try out in the two deep.

That said it may still seem surprising to many that he hasnt played on ST to this point. Again, there is a lot of depth at ST linebacker in front of him. Chatham is the ST captain -- he's not going to sit, Brad Kassell is in the two deep so you are going to play him on ST, Cody Spencer was picked up to be the ST specialist LB who replaced Myers who replaced McClover, and Riddle was brought in as a potential pass rush specialist on 3rd and long situations and just go up to speed so they dressed him the past two games. Thats four other LBs on ST coverage units. Add the kicker punter, two gunners (does anyone expect Schlegel or any LB to be one of these) and then two or three other speed guys who might also return kicks or punts (Miller, Dwight, Brad Smith) and/or the extra RB and ST are pretty difficult to make for an LB who has the toughest competition in terms of cracking the two deep in front of him.

I think Schlegel is Mangini's LB project. I expect to see him contribute by years end and I think he will have a good shot at being a starter by the start of next season.

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The Jets defense is struggling like crazy and he is still not playing..enough said

The Jets defense is struggling like crazy (despite the fact that they are off to a surprising 4-3 record?) because everybody is learning to play the 3-4. If the veterans who know what its like to play in the NFL are struggling with it (as you say) then how the hell do you expect a rookie with no 3-4 experience to have picked it up well enough to move either a Pro-Bowler, an eight year veteran, or a five year veteran out of their spot?

Do you people actually think about what you are posting or do you just repeat the stupid crap that you've read from other fantasy football experts?

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The Jets defense is struggling like crazy (despite the fact that they are off to a surprising 4-3 record?) because everybody is learning to play the 3-4. If the veterans who know what its like to play in the NFL are struggling with it (as you say) then how the hell do you expect a rookie with no 3-4 experience to have picked it up well enough to move either a Pro-Bowler, an eight year veteran, or a five year veteran out of their spot?

Do you people actually think about what you are posting or do you just repeat the stupid crap that you've read from other fantasy football experts?

Keep fighting the good fight, Gibs :D

As you know, i stick up for players from my alma mater, too.

However, looking back on this, I do not think it was a wise draft choice for several reasons. I dont usually get into heavy analyzing of draft picks (eg., I accepted the Nuge pick, understood their reasons, and dealt with it) but they could have done MUCH better with this pick, and gotten somebody who had a better chance of making an immediate impact on the defense.

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The only problem I ever had with that pick was age, I don't mind a 22 year old project player like Miller, he has time to grow into a starting role...but Schlegel is older than Vilma...how can we have a project that's older than our starter?

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Keep fighting the good fight, Gibs :D

As you know, i stick up for players from my alma mater, too.

However, looking back on this, I do not think it was a wise draft choice for several reasons. I dont usually get into heavy analyzing of draft picks (eg., I accepted the Nuge pick, understood their reasons, and dealt with it) but they could have done MUCH better with this pick, and gotten somebody who had a better chance of making an immediate impact on the defense.

I can completely understand those who are critical of the pick (eventhough I firmly believe it will pay off in the long run). The draft experts didnt have Schlegel rated anywhere near that high and given the Jets depth at ILB drafting an ILB in the third didnt seem to make much sense. I'm not sure who you had in mind as an immediate impact guy with that pick (Gabe Watson?), but I dont recall that many immediate impact guys on D being on the board at that time (I'm sure there were some).

What bothers me about those who are already claiming that he is a bust is that they seem to feel that since Schlegel was considered a "reach" that to justify the pick he had to walk into camp and win a starting role. And, if he didnt, he must suck. How many 3rd rounders this year fought their way through the kind of depth in front of Schlegel and are starting in the NFL right now?

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The criticism isn't just that he was a 3rd-round pick. It's that 2006 was a very unusual draft. I've never seen so many high-potential players come out in 1 year. And there were plenty of them available in round 3 (particularly where the Jets picked.

If he was considered a concensus 3rd-round pick & didn't pan out the criticism would be far less. The criticism stems more from the notion that Schlegel was predicted to go in the 5th-round (at the earliest) and Eric Smith was expected to be either a 7th-rounder or an UDFA.

No one knows whether these higher-graded players will pan out, but who wouldn't (on draft day or today) rather have taken Max Jean-Gilles (who many projected us taking with the #35 overall pick) or Gabe Watson. Jean-Gilles went 4(2) to Philly and Watson went 4(10) to Arizona. Or Chris Gocong 3(7), Jerious Norwood (not that I'm unhappy with Leon at all) at 3(15), TE's Pope 3(9) or Byrd 3(28), among others - all at glaring areas of need.

They were both bad picks. You find overachiever/projects in the late rounds, not in the 3rd round of a deep, deep draft.

Like I said before (edit - and Biggs just said now) - hopefully they've learned.

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My big thing is this. And I also have posted it a million times it seems. Mangini keeps saying we are deep at this position and that is why he isn't getting the playing time. Well, why did we draft him if Mangini felt the team was so deep there. We could have used a guard, a d tackle, or if he wanted a st player someone with some speed. I think we had a great speed and tackler. Mcclover who the bears just signed.

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Bradway did the same thing with the Hawain NT last year. If you fall in love with a player it's okay to think some one else might have also and reach in the third round. We have done a lot stupider things, a lot earlier in the past.

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The criticism isn't just that he was a 3rd-round pick. It's that 2006 was a very unusual draft. I've never seen so many high-potential players come out in 1 year. And there were plenty of them available in round 3 (particularly where the Jets picked.

If he was considered a concensus 3rd-round pick & didn't pan out the criticism would be far less. The criticism stems more from the notion that Schlegel was predicted to go in the 5th-round (at the earliest) and Eric Smith was expected to be either a 7th-rounder or an UDFA.

No one knows whether these higher-graded players will pan out, but who wouldn't (on draft day or today) rather have taken Max Jean-Gilles (who many projected us taking with the #35 overall pick) or Gabe Watson. Jean-Gilles went 4(2) to Philly and Watson went 4(10) to Arizona. Or Chris Gocong 3(7), Jerious Norwood (not that I'm unhappy with Leon at all) at 3(15), TE's Pope 3(9) or Byrd 3(28), among others - all at glaring areas of need.

^

What he said

Well, why did we draft him if Mangini felt the team was so deep there.

That, too.

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You can never have too much depth. Look at the Giants last year. They were decimated by injuries and had to sign guys off the street.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have liked to see a NT, but they probably felt fine going in with what we had. Remember, our two big NT's are both out for the year, and Moore is filling in nicely. They were gambling that DRob can play. Hopefully he continues to improve.

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The criticism isn't just that he was a 3rd-round pick. It's that 2006 was a very unusual draft. I've never seen so many high-potential players come out in 1 year. And there were plenty of them available in round 3 (particularly where the Jets picked.

If he was considered a concensus 3rd-round pick & didn't pan out the criticism would be far less. The criticism stems more from the notion that Schlegel was predicted to go in the 5th-round (at the earliest) and Eric Smith was expected to be either a 7th-rounder or an UDFA.

No one knows whether these higher-graded players will pan out, but who wouldn't (on draft day or today) rather have taken Max Jean-Gilles (who many projected us taking with the #35 overall pick) or Gabe Watson. Jean-Gilles went 4(2) to Philly and Watson went 4(10) to Arizona. Or Chris Gocong 3(7), Jerious Norwood (not that I'm unhappy with Leon at all) at 3(15), TE's Pope 3(9) or Byrd 3(28), among others - all at glaring areas of need.

They were both bad picks. You find overachiever/projects in the late rounds, not in the 3rd round of a deep, deep draft.

Like I said before (edit - and Biggs just said now) - hopefully they've learned.

Your second paragraph is an example of exactly what bothers me about criticism of Schlegel. Whether he was a consencus 3rd or not shouldnt make any difference in terms of evaluating him. Its not his fault that he wasnt a consencus 3rd rounder. He is doing what the coach wants him to do and from the coaches statements he is doing it well. Sometimes guys are drafted to fill future gaps. What I wonder is if Schlegel plays the next 9 games on ST will people still criticize him? Criticize the pick all you want, but where he was picked has no bearing on whether or not he is a bust.

As for the players you listed, you are forgeting the Jets situation on draft day.

Gabe Watson -- the Jets had Pouha and Robertson that they were going to give a shot at NT. Tui Ale . . . . showed well in preseason before his injury. NT didnt seem like a glaring need on draft day.

Max Jean Giles -- the Jets drafted the two best Olineman in the draft in the 1st round and had an experienced guard and Trey Teague giving them 4 solid Olineman and several guys on the roster with experience. Giles hasnt shown anything that would indicate that he would have been worth a third.

Chris Gocong -- is on IR for the year. So he wouldnt have made an impact. Plus he is way more of an unknown quantity than Schlegel. He might be great, his greatness in college might have been the result of the quality of his competition at the D1AA level.

Norwood -- is an explosive runner who is making an impact. But since the Jets got the same thing in the 4th round (plus better character) I cant see complaining about passing on Norwood.

Pope -- He's been an unspectacular Rookie TE, but given Bakers success there's no way he'd be making much of an impact for the Jets. Not an area of glaring need. Plus on draft day the Jets had Jolley on the roster as well.

Byrd -- is probably a lesser version of Pope and has done nothing this year to make me think that he would have supplanted Baker at TE. Again the Jets had Jolley and Baker on the roster on draft day. TE was not a glaring need.

With the exception of Norwood none of these guys would be making much more of an impact on the Jets than Schlegel is. And, if the Jets get Norwood they dont take Washington. So, evaluation of Schlegel as a bust or a bad pick has nothing to do with what he has actually done or not done because the guys you listed havent done anything much either so far this season, your problem with Schlegel and the reason you are so eager to write him offi s that you didnt like the pick in the first place his not playing yet gives you the satisfaction of saying "I told you so".

I still believe if you give the guy time -- more than 7 games for a 3rd round pick -- in the end you wont be dissapointed with the pick.

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Where someone is selected has a lot to do with the expectations, and being a bust = not meeting particular expectations

I agree with this statement if you are talking about a 1st rounder who is drafted to fill a specific need and expected to step into a starting role. But a 3rd rounder? I think expecting Schlegel to be doing much more than he is doing right now (anything beyond ST) was setting expectations ureasonably high.

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I agree with this statement if you are talking about a 1st rounder who is drafted to fill a specific need and expected to step into a starting role. But a 3rd rounder? I think expecting Schlegel to be doing much more than he is doing right now (anything beyond ST) was setting expectations ureasonably high.

I do not think that expecting him to at least get a sniff of the field was an unreasonable expectation.

He may turn out to be a good player, but if he never makes it on to the field, there's no chance of that happening.

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Your second paragraph is an example of exactly what bothers me about criticism of Schlegel. Whether he was a consencus 3rd or not shouldnt make any difference in terms of evaluating him. Its not his fault that he wasnt a consencus 3rd rounder. He is doing what the coach wants him to do and from the coaches statements he is doing it well. Sometimes guys are drafted to fill future gaps. What I wonder is if Schlegel plays the next 9 games on ST will people still criticize him? Criticize the pick all you want, but where he was picked has no bearing on whether or not he is a bust.

Well that IS the criticism. Look - the draft has a certain # of players. Some are expected to go earlier than others. Just because you love a certain player doesn't mean you reach for him 2-4 rounds ahead of where he's expected to go.

The Jets were obviously enamored with Kellen Clemens. But they weren't so stupid as to take him with the #4 overall pick. Because you can still get him later AND get a premiere talent that would be totally unavailable where we ended up taking Clemens.

So players getting taken in round 3 when they were projected in round 5 or later (if taken at all) IS a bad move. Even if Schlegel was starting. We could have STILL had him PLUS a legit 3rd-round talent (which in this draft was like a 1st- or 2nd- round talent in other years).

As for the players you listed, you are forgeting the Jets situation on draft day.

Gabe Watson -- the Jets had Pouha and Robertson that they were going to give a shot at NT. Tui Ale . . . . showed well in preseason before his injury. NT didnt seem like a glaring need on draft day.

Expecting a guy who was a total reach the year before and/or a player unsuited for the position to suddenly become a prototypical NT was foolish. I love the job Mangini & Tannenbaum are doing overall - I'm a big fan - but that was just dumb and shortsighted. Almost bordering on naive. Players with prototypical NT size who can move laterally are VERY, VERY RARE. You don't just throw someone in there and say "oh - he's 320 lbs, therefore he'll fit" and pass on someone who truly fits such a critical position - arguably THE most important position in the 3-4.

Max Jean Giles -- the Jets drafted the two best Olineman in the draft in the 1st round and had an experienced guard and Trey Teague giving them 4 solid Olineman and several guys on the roster with experience. Giles hasnt shown anything that would indicate that he would have been worth a third.
You're not serious, are you? First of all, Jean-Gilles is a rookie on a team that doesn't have any issues at the OG position. Because the veterans there are playing more than aptly enough to continue starting does not make Jean-Gilles a player who "hasn't shown anything" - Philly is plenty happy with him.

And RG is clearly the weakest position on our OL. Moore is worse than Clement. By a lot. And that's saying something. He would make a top-notch backup - one of the better ones around. But as a starter, he's crap.

Chris Gocong -- is on IR for the year. So he wouldnt have made an impact. Plus he is way more of an unknown quantity than Schlegel. He might be great, his greatness in college might have been the result of the quality of his competition at the D1AA level.
Drawing attention to his injury is ridiculous. You are assuming that one freak injury on one team would translate to the identical injury at the identical time on another? Gocong was projected as a great fit as a pass-rushing 3-4 OLB; an area of big-time need here.

Would he have worked out? Who knows. But if he didn't, the criticism wouldn't be as strong. He was a true pass-rusher at an area of need. If he didn't work out, then he didn't work out. But he was not a reach there & you try to make the best pick possible.

Oh - and we DEFINITELY wanted him. We just thought he'd be there 5 picks later. I believe that is the reason we jumped on Schlegel so early. Having been burned by missing a player they wanted, they reached 2 rounds to make sure it didn't happen again. Problem with that is that no one else likely wanted him in round 3.

Norwood -- is an explosive runner who is making an impact. But since the Jets got the same thing in the 4th round (plus better character) I cant see complaining about passing on Norwood.
Jets didn't get the same thing. Norwood doesn't need to be taken out of the game on short-yardage due to size. In fact he comes IN the game, relieving Warrick Dunn, in those situations. This also caused us to piss away a 4th-rounder in 2007 (and $3M in cap space) for Barlow.

Pope -- He's been an unspectacular Rookie TE, but given Bakers success there's no way he'd be making much of an impact for the Jets. Not an area of glaring need. Plus on draft day the Jets had Jolley on the roster as well.
Baker's success? Which is what - catching 14 passes in 7 games and 6 in the past 4? He's a solid #2 TE but is no playmaker. And Jolley? He was 3rd-string on Oakland as a 3 year veteran. And can't block. Surely NE's DC from the prior year was aware of that. And he was cut, as we all expected.

This guy was touted as a late first-rounder until the combine. Even then he was thought to be a lock for round 2. Slipping 9 slots into round 3 should've been a steal. Because he was so highly touted, if he doesn't work out it's easier to accept than a guy who had no business getting taken that early flopping.

Byrd -- is probably a lesser version of Pope and has done nothing this year to make me think that he would have supplanted Baker at TE. Again the Jets had Jolley and Baker on the roster on draft day. TE was not a glaring need.

Again, because he's not tearing up the league as a rookie is poor logic. It has nothing to do with supplanting Baker as a rookie. Baker is not our long-term solution at TE. A Pope or Byrd could be.

With the exception of Norwood none of these guys would be making much more of an impact on the Jets than Schlegel is.
Nonsense. They may not be making as much of an impact b/c they went to better teams. How much of an impact would Leon Washington be making on KC? None. Because they already have an every-down starter firmly entrenched there.

And, if the Jets get Norwood they dont take Washington. So, evaluation of Schlegel as a bust or a bad pick has nothing to do with what he has actually done or not done because the guys you listed havent done anything much either so far this season, your problem with Schlegel and the reason you are so eager to write him offi s that you didnt like the pick in the first place his not playing yet gives you the satisfaction of saying "I told you so".
I take no satisfaction in the Jets reaching 2-4 rounds for players and having them perform like the players they were expected to be. After the pick, I was optimistic about Schlegel and his boar-hunting crap. But at the end of the day, he's the player he looked like before the draft. A big lummox who's too slow for the pro's. He can't even contribute on special teams b/c he's so slow. Now if he was injured & didn't make an impact for that reason (like the TE/FB we drafted), I can't fault that.

I still believe if you give the guy time -- more than 7 games for a 3rd round pick -- in the end you wont be dissapointed with the pick.
Top prospects turn into busts in every draft. Every draft also has low-ranked guys who turn into great players. But most of the top players in the league were day-one picks. So you don't take day-two talent with a day-one pick. You take day-two talent on day two. You STILL GET that day-two talent player PLUS a day-one talent.

Schlegel was only a "3rd-round pick" because WE stupidly picked him there. Not because he was a 3rd-round talent (which in this draft was 2nd and sometimes 1st round talent getting taken in the 3rd round).

I believe that he went with the all-character route b/c he was a new coach and didn't want to deal with egos. Next year he won't be a rookie, will have a track record for some success with a team that most expected to win 4-5 games, and shouldn't worry about rookies not buying into what he's saying/doing as much.

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Fair enough, but off the top of your head without looking can you name all the 3rd round picks Edwards/Dumbway made?

Or even Parcells and Groh for that matter.

Uh I can name two: Parcells drafted Lavernues Coles in Round 3 in 2000 and Dumbway drafted Jericho Cotchery in Round 4 in 2004.

Look, a third round pick may not seem all that important but getting value in rounds 3-7 separates the good teams from the bad teams in the NFL.

Jets passed up big strong players they could have stuck into the offensive and defensive lines. Ryan O'Callaghan, Gabe Watson, Jonathan Scott to name a few.

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Well that IS the criticism. Look - the draft has a certain # of players. Some are expected to go earlier than others. Just because you love a certain player doesn't mean you reach for him 2-4 rounds ahead of where he's expected to go.

The Jets were obviously enamored with Kellen Clemens. But they weren't so stupid as to take him with the #4 overall pick. Because you can still get him later AND get a premiere talent that would be totally unavailable where we ended up taking Clemens.

So players getting taken in round 3 when they were projected in round 5 or later (if taken at all) IS a bad move. Even if Schlegel was starting. We could have STILL had him PLUS a legit 3rd-round talent (which in this draft was like a 1st- or 2nd- round talent in other years).

Expecting a guy who was a total reach the year before and/or a player unsuited for the position to suddenly become a prototypical NT was foolish. I love the job Mangini & Tannenbaum are doing overall - I'm a big fan - but that was just dumb and shortsighted. Almost bordering on naive. Players with prototypical NT size who can move laterally are VERY, VERY RARE. You don't just throw someone in there and say "oh - he's 320 lbs, therefore he'll fit" and pass on someone who truly fits such a critical position - arguably THE most important position in the 3-4.

You're not serious, are you? First of all, Jean-Gilles is a rookie on a team that doesn't have any issues at the OG position. Because the veterans there are playing more than aptly enough to continue starting does not make Jean-Gilles a player who "hasn't shown anything" - Philly is plenty happy with him.

And RG is clearly the weakest position on our OL. Moore is worse than Clement. By a lot. And that's saying something. He would make a top-notch backup - one of the better ones around. But as a starter, he's crap.

Drawing attention to his injury is ridiculous. You are assuming that one freak injury on one team would translate to the identical injury at the identical time on another? Gocong was projected as a great fit as a pass-rushing 3-4 OLB; an area of big-time need here.

Would he have worked out? Who knows. But if he didn't, the criticism wouldn't be as strong. He was a true pass-rusher at an area of need. If he didn't work out, then he didn't work out. But he was not a reach there & you try to make the best pick possible.

Oh - and we DEFINITELY wanted him. We just thought he'd be there 5 picks later. I believe that is the reason we jumped on Schlegel so early. Having been burned by missing a player they wanted, they reached 2 rounds to make sure it didn't happen again. Problem with that is that no one else likely wanted him in round 3.

Jets didn't get the same thing. Norwood doesn't need to be taken out of the game on short-yardage due to size. In fact he comes IN the game, relieving Warrick Dunn, in those situations. This also caused us to piss away a 4th-rounder in 2007 (and $3M in cap space) for Barlow.

Baker's success? Which is what - catching 14 passes in 7 games and 6 in the past 4? He's a solid #2 TE but is no playmaker. And Jolley? He was 3rd-string on Oakland as a 3 year veteran. And can't block. Surely NE's DC from the prior year was aware of that. And he was cut, as we all expected.

This guy was touted as a late first-rounder until the combine. Even then he was thought to be a lock for round 2. Slipping 9 slots into round 3 should've been a steal. Because he was so highly touted, if he doesn't work out it's easier to accept than a guy who had no business getting taken that early flopping.

Again, because he's not tearing up the league as a rookie is poor logic. It has nothing to do with supplanting Baker as a rookie. Baker is not our long-term solution at TE. A Pope or Byrd could be.

Nonsense. They may not be making as much of an impact b/c they went to better teams. How much of an impact would Leon Washington be making on KC? None. Because they already have an every-down starter firmly entrenched there.

I take no satisfaction in the Jets reaching 2-4 rounds for players and having them perform like the players they were expected to be. After the pick, I was optimistic about Schlegel and his boar-hunting crap. But at the end of the day, he's the player he looked like before the draft. A big lummox who's too slow for the pro's. He can't even contribute on special teams b/c he's so slow. Now if he was injured & didn't make an impact for that reason (like the TE/FB we drafted), I can't fault that.

Top prospects turn into busts in every draft. Every draft also has low-ranked guys who turn into great players. But most of the top players in the league were day-one picks. So you don't take day-two talent with a day-one pick. You take day-two talent on day two. You STILL GET that day-two talent player PLUS a day-one talent.

Schlegel was only a "3rd-round pick" because WE stupidly picked him there. Not because he was a 3rd-round talent (which in this draft was 2nd and sometimes 1st round talent getting taken in the 3rd round).

I believe that he went with the all-character route b/c he was a new coach and didn't want to deal with egos. Next year he won't be a rookie, will have a track record for some success with a team that most expected to win 4-5 games, and shouldn't worry about rookies not buying into what he's saying/doing as much.

Wow, that was a long one. I hated to quote the whole thing, but I didnt want to have to keep going back and forth.

First, I'm not against your feeling that Schlegel was a bad pick in the 3rd round. I'm against you and others using the fact that you felt he was a bad pick to lable him a bust this early. I understand that you feel that you and the "draft experts" you hold in such high esteem are better evaluators of talent than Mangini and Tanny. That's your right as a fan (moderator). Just because they see film, were actually there when a guy worked out, had actual scouting reports, talked to the players in question before the draft is no reason to think that those guys know more than you and Mel Kiper. If you want to think of him as a 5th rounder or whatever then go ahead. It really makes no difference at this point. If the Jets over "paid" for the guy then hold against the management not the player.

As for the players that you and others insist would have been better picks for the Jets you are again entitled to your (Kiper's) opinion. But my comments were more directed at your statement that these players would have filled a "glaring need"

Watson -- stupid or not I believe the number of NT's the Jets had on the roster made NT a low priority. You can call the coaching staff of a surprising 4-3 team that was picked to be the worst in the league stupid if you want. Lots of other teams seemed to think that Watson as a 1st or 2nd rounder was a reach and waited to pick him until the 4th and many of those teams needed more D line help than the Jets. At any rate with Robertson getting paid big money and Pouha on the roster the NT position wasnt a glaring need.

Gocong -- you point about the injury is valid. There is absolutely no way of knowing if Gocong would have been healthy for the Jets and in fact he probably would have. However, again the Jets had someone who was a highly touted young prospect from the previous administration that they planned to convert to that OLB spot (convert a rookie from 1AA or a first round draft pick whose actually played in the league, hmm . . . . ). I dont doubt that the Jets wanted him, but if they really wanted him that badly they wouldnt have taken the chance and traded down.

Max Jean Giles -- The injury to Teague, the seriousness of which was not know until after the draft, makes Giles look like a better pick than he looked on draft Day. Trey Teague is healthy we're not talking about him. On draft day not a glaring need.

Norwood -- If Norwood comes in on short ydg plays doesnt that mean he isnt in in ordinary situations? I'd rather have a guy who has to be taken out on short ydg. but can carry the ball 20-25 times a game than a guy who comes in on short ydg. with my 3rd rounder. But the real point is that there was not clearly a glaring need. CMart, Blaylock, Houston, and they picked Washington. Three veteran RBs and a guy whose having as good or better year drafted in the 4th. Not a glaring need.

Pope/ Bird -- these guys may turn out to be far better than Chris Baker (who by the way has two TD catches one of them a game winner). But again Baker and Jolly were veterans who had played their position and Baker had the potential to develop into the every day TE that he has become. So, TE was not a glaring need.

All of these guys may turn out to be star players in the league. But then again so may Schlegel. After all like you said most star players were drafted on the first day of the draft. None of the guys you mention, barring injury, would have been a starter for the Jets (except Norwood). Schlegel isnt a starter, so the only difference between picking Schlegel and one of them was that the "draft experts" thought those guys had first day talent and Schlegel didnt. Well, the draft experts for the Jets -- you know the actual guys that an NFL team pays to evaluate the right talent for their team -- thought that he did. They might have been wrong. On the other hand, given the fact that we are only 7 games into his rookie season, its really too early to tell.

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I do not think that expecting him to at least get a sniff of the field was an unreasonable expectation.

He may turn out to be a good player, but if he never makes it on to the field, there's no chance of that happening.

I expected him to play on ST. I still think he will. Is the difference between him being a bust or a successful pick the difference in him playing on ST in 8 games or 16?

In an early post in this thread I set out a theory about why he might not have gotten to play specials yet. I respect your opinion so I'd like to know what you think of it.

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In an early post in this thread I set out a theory about why he might not have gotten to play specials yet. I respect your opinion so I'd like to know what you think of it.

Thanks for the kind words. I have some stuff going on here at home, so let me think about it and get back to you later or manana.

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