Why I got pIssed off yesterday

[Preston Howley III]

Real quick because I'm really not in the mood but I gotta get his off my chest-

First of all, where is it written that a team "doesn't deserve to win" a football game because they play like sht? I know Pennington was awful, I know our defense couldnt stop Knute Rockne from getting a first down on 3rd and 8 and he's been dead for 60 years. But where is it written that it then becomes ok for the refs to screw a team out of a TD?

Second of all, whats with this "It's a rebuilding year"? Where is it written that you are allowed to play like dogs because it's a "rebuilding year"? The Jets mailed in a disgusting performance, and I'm not letting the coaching staff off the hook after that fiasco, neither. Whether it's a "rebuilding" year or not, you got out and play the f*cking game, right. I really thought I was going to lose it when Leon Washington fumbled the ball- or was that a loaf of bread he was carrying? Jayzus Kayrist, visions of Blair Thomas all over again.

I know why the ref's jobbed the Jets out of the TD. It was late, the fans were drunk and restless, the Browns are 1-5, and Romeo let a team that had no business getting back in the game, right back in it. Well shame on them for thinking it was there duty to save Romeo from the same fate he meted out on Carthon. Deserves has nothing to do with any of this sht.

You play the game the way its supposed to be played, and you call the game fairly the way you see it. Enough with this goddamn "well the Browns deserved to win" and the "Jets didn't deserve to win" because thats a crock o' sht.

Right now I'm just too pissed off to even discuss this nonsense any further. Its a good thing the Jets bye and I hope after a few weeks I'll settle down enough to come to my senses and take a bye when this team plays it's next 8 games. I'll take a bye of my own because I'm sick of this crap. And don't tell me I have to be "patient" cos this is a "rebuilding year". Take the rebuilding year rhetoric and stick it. Thats just a built in f'ng excuse for giving these guys a pass to dog it.

And another thing, for you guys that want to blame it all on Pennington, fair enough. He stunk it up good last night. But next year, when the Jets are in the same situation, and Clemens has 4 completions for 12 yards and 3 INT's and the Jets once again get stovepiped on the road by a BS call, WHAT THEN, RAISENBRAN, WHAT THEN?

You'll all be clamoring for Clemens head on a platter just like you are with "1 cent".

What a f'n bunch of BS.

[RSJ]

It was a sad performance no doubt and there are no excuses for it. But this is the first year in a totally new system. I'm still excited about the future. One more good draft and a good free agent crop with all the cap space we have and we will be a major, major force next year. And you can forget about Clemens because he will not be starting next year. Chad is a good QB who does not have the horses right now.

[Preston Howley III]

It was a sad performance no doubt and there are no excuses for it. But this is the first year in a totally new system. I'm still excited about the future. One more good draft and a good free agent crop with all the cap space we have and we will be a major, major force next year. And you can forget about Clemens because he will not be starting next year. Chad is a good QB who does not have the horses right now.

I can't accept that, bro.

It's not about next year. It's about the game on Sunday.

It's about going out on the field and playing the game right, and not looking like a bunch of horses *sses.

Go look at Thor's post from a few days ago. He called it. This team mailed it in against the Browns. THE BROWNS.

I guess they get a pass the rest of the way, because this was pivot game to determine which direction this season was going.

I'm not gonna sit here week after week and ACCEPT a team mailing it in, under the tentative assumption that next year will be better.

Next year could be worse. It's just a sht sandwich over and over with this team. Nothing ever fcking changes.

[doggystyle]

big freakin' deal...they weren't great yesterday...but the fact is no team gets up for every game no matter how much the armchair QB's want them too. Moses, you may not see another Jet title in your lifetime, but i'm a lot younger than you so i'm confident i will

[RSJ]

I can't accept that, bro.

It's not about next year. It's about the game on Sunday.

It's about going out on the field and playing the game right, and not looking like a bunch of horses *sses.

Go look at Thor's post from a few days ago. He called it. This team mailed it in against the Browns. THE BROWNS.

I guess they get a pass the rest of the way, because this was pivot game to determine which direction this season was going.

I'm not gonna sit here week after week and ACCEPT a team mailing it in, under the tentative assumption that next year will be better.

Next year could be worse. It's just a sht sandwich over and over with this team. Nothing ever fcking changes.

The Jets did not mail it in they were just outplayed. Face it the Browns are more talented overall right now in comparison to the Jets. Don't let the record fool you the Jets have beaten 2 one win teams and 2 two win teams. The Browns in comparison have had a tough schedule. Let me ask you this. Who would you rather have? Braylon Edwards, Kellen Winslow and Rueben Droughns or Lava Coles, Chris Baker and Leon Washington? Who would you rather have Ted Washington or ReRun? Willie McGinest or Bryan Thomas? (who is getting better every week btw). The Browns are a good team. Even their OL is underrated.

[JETSFAN5180]

The "SYSTEM" isnt working we LOST to the Cleveland Browns. Totally UNACCEPTABLE this team is more unprepared than a Herm coached team.The play calling is horrendous. This game was ours to win.REGARDLESS of the bad call it should have not come down to that.

I am a longtime JET fan who will die a JET fan. WIN OR LOSE but this performance ranks amongst the worst!

And yes im still PISSED.

[Sharrow]

I wonder what the conversations would be like if they had gotten that call right, we score the TD and tied it up, then they get the ball back and we stop them for the 7th consecutive time, and we go into overtime with the momentum, and win...

[JETSFAN5180]

I would have said WOW a LUCKY WIN!!!!!!!!!

[jetophile]

This is about the 20th time I'm saying this. Repeating the same sentiment and stream of thought in different ways. We lost the game by our own hand, but we also got robbed of the chance to stay in it. One does not justify or neutralize the other. That's the long and short of it. And we got screwed, my friends.

An email from my cousin, a rabid - yecccccch! - Giants fan:

Subject Line: You Got Screwed!

"I rarely feel sorry for the Jets, but they got screwed yesterday! Your TE was definitely in. He should have bee ruled inbounds and the game should have gone into OT. I hope this evens out for you guys this year. Sorry.

-Joe"

[Preston Howley III]

I wonder what the conversations would be like if they had gotten that call right, we score the TD and tied it up, then they get the ball back and we stop them for the 7th consecutive time, and we go into overtime with the momentum, and win...

I wonder what the conversation would be, if the Jets played mistake free football the whole game, and then get jobbed like that in the end.

The only reason so many Jets fans are taking this in stride is because "oh well, it's a rebuilding year" and "oh well, we didn't deserve to win, anyway".

That call was absolute horseshi#.

You know what? Maybe I take it too seriously. Maybe I should just treat it all like the clown show it is. The players are a bunch of horses *sses. They should be in a zoo, and we should throw peanuts at them.

[jetophile]

Tuck Rule. There aren't many calls as bad as that. This was up there. Atrocious.

I'm definitely not in the mode of we played poorly so "oh, well". That would be if he didn't catch the ball at all or if it was cleanly defensed.

[JetCane]

The Jets did not mail it in they were just outplayed.

I think the better cliche here is they didnt answer the bell.

Getting whomped on both sides of the LOS makes for an ugly performance. It still all starts up front, even though the skill players are higher profile.

So, while CP's bad game is the talk of the town (other than the blown call at the end) it has been pathetic watching an overmatched DL get it's butts kicked every week. The offense just didnt produce yesterday, for a variety of reasons. The Browns' D played with a chip on its shoulder, and the NYJ didnt respond in kind.

JMo, a little advice from an OLD sports fan: sometimes, you have to take a step back from it. When you have so much emotional energy invested in a team that a bad performance in a regular season game blows your mind, you need to step back and regroup. Methinks the bye week came at a good time for you.

[jetophile]

The Jets did not mail it in they were just outplayed.

No-one is denying that. It still doesn't mean the Jets didn't get screwed - and terribly - on a bad call. If you think we'd be having this conversation if Peyton Manning was trying to tie the game, think again.

EDIT: Holy Cr*p, I spelled 'still' wrong. What the hell is going on here?!

[Lady Jet]

Jetmo, you're right.

Although I will cut them some slack as it is the first year in a new system, I won't/can't cut them slack for the huge lackadaisical performance yesterday.

Like Bugg pointed out last night, there are some big money players, especially on the D side that are simply not playing up to what their salary dictates. It's unexcusable, and it happens far too often with this lot.

Here's hoping that they use the bye wisely.

[JetCane]

Here's hoping that they use the bye wisely.

They trading Vilma for Wilfork?

[Preston Howley III]

JMo, a little advice from an OLD sports fan: sometimes, you have to take a step back from it. When you have so much emotional energy invested in a team that a bad performance in a regular season game blows your mind, you need to step back and regroup. Methinks the bye week came at a good time for you.

You watching these two teams playing right now, that are on the schedule? I think I'll take the rest of the season off. I'll only wind up throwing peanuts at the horses *sses on the tv.

[Preston Howley III]

Jetmo, you're right.

Although I will cut them some slack as it is the first year in a new system, I won't/can't cut them slack for the huge lackadaisical performance yesterday.

Like Bugg pointed out last night, there are some big money players, especially on the D side that are simply not playing up to what their salary dictates. It's unexcusable, and it happens far too often with this lot.

Here's hoping that they use the bye wisely.

Contracts and salary cap implications provides these horses *sses with a huge safety net. They know they can't get cut or traded. You can't bench them, because you can't afford to pay somebody else. So you get stuck with a bunch of horses *sses.

Oh well. I'm not going to get mad, anymore. I'm going to get a bicycle horn and and a flower that squirts water, and throw peanuts at the tv when the jets are on.

[Lady Jet]

Oh well. I'm not going to get mad, anymore. I'm going to get a bicycle horn and and a flower that squirts water, and throw peanuts at the tv when the jets are on.

LOL, there ya go.

[JetCane]

You watching these two teams playing right now, that are on the schedule? I think I'll take the rest of the season off. I'll only wind up throwing peanuts at the horses *sses on the tv.

I hear you. I wish there was a more benign explanation, like "they played down to the competition" but that isnt the case. The Jets got destroyed by Jax, and didnt show up in the first half of the NE game, either. They didnt match Cleveland's intensity for much of the game. It goes against the level of effort that this CS seemingly demands.

Maybe someone will step up in the lockerrom before the next game and give them some he** like you are feeling like doing. Ed Reed, anyone?

Oh wait-

[Bugg]

To reiterate-seems like whether the CS is allowing it or the players are accepting it, we have 4 guys who are paid as well as anybody at their respective positions on the defense-Ellis, Robertson, Vilma and Barton-who are nothing special. They do not make plays. This defense cannot get the QB, the cannot sop the run and they cannot get off the field on a 3rd down. And they blitzed a lot yesterday and mostly until late in the game it got picked up with not much problem. And I don't think 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, nickel, dime, what ever has a damn thing to do with it. I tend to think given the prior regime's indulgence of nonsense and stupidity they seem very comfortable to whine via backchannels about how they cannot play the 3-4, and that's complete crap. Problem is the CS cannot now wholesale dump 4 starters midseason. Seriously-I don't care what he did as a rookie in the 4-3-Vilma looks completely clueless. And in midseason, after camp and work in the film room, I dont think you can blame that on the CS. The guy may not be that good. Or may be more important, not that big.

To recap-from ESPN's rosters-

Vilma-6'1". listed at 230;

the 2 guys everyone compares him to-

Ray Lewis(past him prime, but everyone's touchstone) 6'1", 250;

Brian Urlacher-college safety- 6'4". listed at 258.

Point being he's 20-35 lbs. lighter than either, and if he's 6'1" it's just barely. I don't think you can play LB at that weight. Unless he's suddenly gonna add 25-30 lbs. of muscle the scheme isn't going to matter. Fulllbacks and TEs are knocking him back.

[Barton]

To reiterate-seems like whether the CS is allowing it or the players are accepting it, we have 4 guys who are paid as well as anybody at their respective positions on the defense-Ellis, Robertson, Vilma and Barton-who are nothing special. They do not make plays. This defense cannot get the QB, the cannot sop the run and they cannot get off the field on a 3rd down. And they blitzed a lot yesterday and mostly until late in the game it got picked up with not much problem. And I don't think 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, nickel, dime, what ever has a damn thing to do with it. I tend to think given the prior regime's indulgence of nonsense and stupidity they seem very comfortable to whine via backchannels about how they cannot play the 3-4, and that's complete crap. Problem is the CS cannot now wholesale dump 4 starters midseason. Seriously-I don't care what he did as a rookie in the 4-3-Vilma looks completely clueless. And in midseason, after camp and work in the film room, I dont think you can blame that on the CS. The guy may not be that good. Or may be more important, not that big.

To recap-from ESPN's rosters-

Vilma-6'1". listed at 230;

the 2 guys everyone compares him to-

Ray Lewis(past him prime, but everyone's touchstone) 6'1", 250;

Brian Urlacher-college safety- 6'4". listed at 258.

Point being he's 20-35 lbs. lighter than either, and if he's 6'1" it's just barely. I don't think you can play LB at that weight. Unless he's suddenly gonna add 25-30 lbs. of muscle the scheme isn't going to matter. Fulllbacks and TEs are knocking him back.

For the last time. You need good nosetackle play or else. Its that simple.

Ray Lewis or Urlacher wouldnt do jack sh#t on this defense, and thats the truth. When you are getting mauled by guards because your nosetackle gets beaten 1 on 1 and pushed back 5 yards on run plays, there isnt much you can do.

Seems like you are insinuating that Vilma is a bust? Was he a bust his 1st 2 seasons? No. Because we were in the 4-3.

He'll never be a 3-4 backer. Unless we find gold at NT in the offseason, I would not be opposed to trading him for a 1st rd pick in the future.

[Bugg]

No dispute that they need an NT and Robertson isn't it.

But Mangini has coached the 3-4 forever. The Steelers and Pats have been successful with it. And they might tweak it a bit, but this CS is not going to ditch it.

Vilma ain't making plays. And if you want to cite what he did in the past or that he's tackling running backs 7-9 yards upfield as evidence of his greatness, I'm not buying it. Again it's not just guards getting out to him, it's FBs and TES blowing him out, and he looks lost. At some point,damn the scheme, he has to make some plays, bust some things up. And he's not doing it. And again, citing the 2 guys VIlmaniacs like you always point to as his points of comparsion, there's no store to get him 25 lbs. of neede muscle midseason.

[RSJ]

Seems like you are insinuating that Vilma is a bust? Was he a bust his 1st 2 seasons? No. Because we were in the 4-3.

Vilma looked great in his first season - his second season was less than great. We definitly need a NT but I'm still not sure that will matter much. Vilma may ultimatly need to move to OLB in a Rosevelt Colvin type role or even SS. But I believe Vilma's greatest value at this point is as trade bait.

[RSJ]

No dispute that they need an NT and Robertson isn't it.

But Mangini has coached the 3-4 forever. The Steelers and Pats have been successful with it. And they might tweak it a bit, but this CS is not going to ditch it.

Vilma ain't making plays. And if you want to cite what he did in the past or that he's tackling running backs 7-9 yards upfield as evidence of his greatness, I'm not buying it. Again it's not just guards getting out to him, it's FBs and TES blowing him out, and he looks lost. At some point,damn the scheme, he has to make some plays, bust some things up. And he's not doing it. And again, citing the 2 guys VIlmaniacs like you always point to as his points of comparsion, there's no store to get him 25 lbs. of neede muscle midseason.

And to just add onto this a bit Eric Barton who is playing right next to Vilma is making plays despite a weak NT. Barton has been effective many times against the run.

[JetCane]

Seriously-I don't care what he did as a rookie in the 4-3-Vilma looks completely clueless.

The cs doesnt care, either. And it shows up in how bad the D has played.

They took some risks by switching to the 3-4 this season. No one knew who would adjust and who wouldnt, including Vilma.

So, they turned the Jets best defensive player into an undersized-for-his position, playing-without-a NT ILB. And they got what? A crappy defense.

Would he be drafted by a team playing a 3-4? No way. But they sacrificed the play of the Def ROTY to install their scheme w/o having adequate personnel. This is how its turning out.

Edit: I wanted to add something that i just saw posted on a Ham thread. D-Rob is also a guy who is much better in the 4-3 and is not cut out to do what he is being asked to do by this cs in the 3-4. There is definitely frustration seeing the D underperform b/c the cs is not putting them in the best position to thrive.

[RSJ]

The cs doesnt care, either. And it shows up in how bad the D has played.

They took some risks by switching to the 3-4 this season. No one knew who would adjust and who wouldnt, including Vilma.

So, they turned the Jets best defensive player into an undersized-for-his position, playing-without-a NT ILB. And they got what? A crappy defense.

Would he be drafted by a team playing a 3-4? No way. But they sacrificed the play of the Def ROTY to install their scheme w/o having adequate personnel. This is how its turning out.

And that could be a reason why Vilma will be traded after this season alas Hugh Douglas. The first hint for me was when Mangini cut McClover. I get the feeling Mangini is not in love with Vilma (and I have no specifics to point to just a gut feeling). I could be wrong but I'm starting to think rerun has a better shot to be on this tam next year than Vilma does.

[JetCane]

I have no idea what his feelings are about Vilma.

But i will say this: if mangin's idea is to get rid of quick defensive players and replace them with the likes of slower guys out of the big 10, like E Smith and the Boar hunter, I dont see that plan succeeding.

[Lady Jet]

I have no idea what his feelings are about Vilma.

But i will say this: if mangin's idea is to get rid of quick defensive players and replace them with the likes of slower guys out of the big 10, like E Smith and the Boar hunter, I dont see that plan succeeding.

The Boar hunter doesn't look like he's panning out at all. Has he been activated at all this year?

But E Smith, everyone says he's slow, but this kid is always, always where the ball is whenever he takes the field.

[LionelRichie]

i use the word rebuilding to avoid total meltdowns like the one you are apparently having. the game is over there is nothing anyone can do except move on.

the performance on sunday was pathetic. beating bad teams has covered a lot of warts which were all exposed on sunday. to think the rest of the season will be any different is just setting yourself up for another meltdown.

[KSJets]

So, while CP's bad game is the talk of the town (other than the blown call at the end) it has been pathetic watching an overmatched DL get it's butts kicked every week. The offense just didnt produce yesterday, for a variety of reasons. The Browns' D played with a chip on its shoulder, and the NYJ didnt respond in kind.

If there's one thing that is really annoying, it's seeing our DL getting pushed back several yards on just about every rush. It's disheartening. It almost forces the offense to play mistake-free, which is nice when it happens, but can't be expected every week.

[KSJets]

I could be wrong but I'm starting to think rerun has a better shot to be on this tam next year than Vilma does.

Can he play NT?

[Mawaeman]

The Jets did not mail it in they were just outplayed. Face it the Browns are more talented overall right now in comparison to the Jets. Don't let the record fool you the Jets have beaten 2 one win teams and 2 two win teams. The Browns in comparison have had a tough schedule. Let me ask you this. Who would you rather have? Braylon Edwards, Kellen Winslow and Rueben Droughns or Lava Coles, Chris Baker and Leon Washington? Who would you rather have Ted Washington or ReRun? Willie McGinest or Bryan Thomas? (who is getting better every week btw). The Browns are a good team. Even their OL is underrated.

As much as it pains me to quote the idiot but "You play to WIN THE GAME"

[JetsMan57]

the 2 guys VIlmaniacs like you always point to as his points of comparsion, there's no store to get him 25 lbs. of neede muscle midseason.

I dont know if Id consider my self a vimamaniac, but more like one who recognizes that the kid is a very good player who is in the wrong defense. I didnt compare him to Urlacher, but Ray Lewis even at 20 pounds heavier than Vilma got pushed around in the 3-4 too when his dline didnt do their jobs in front of him. Go pop in the tape from KC two years ago and watch Ray Lewis be Tony Richardson's biatch that game.... Later on that year against the Jets Peter Kendall and Kevin Mawae were having their way with Ray Ray too. Asking LBers to defeat linemen who outweight them by 60-70 pounds or Fullbacks coming at them with a full steam ahead is a little too much.

No team drafts Vilma to play inside in the 3-4. He is out of position. Put him in a 4-3 with a solid DLINE and he will perform well. He has already proved that.

[PatsFanTX]

For the last time. You need good nosetackle play or else. Its that simple.

Anybody catch Vince Wilfork's performance last night?

[Verde]

No-one is denying that. It stil doesn't mean the Jets didn't get screwed - and terribly - on a bad call. If you think we'd be having this conversation if Peyton Manning was trying to tie the game, think again.

Seems to be true.

Former QB, Jim Miller, was complaining on Sirius radio a few weeks ago that refs definitely play favorites and that, for example, the hit on Trent Green WOULD have been roughing the passer were it a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.