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late season collapse? the al groh factor


bitonti
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if the Jets lose out it will be considered a late season collapse

here's my question, if this happens, how much of it will be due to the Junction Boys training camp Mangini was running this summer? Will he do it again?

It could be they just ran out of luck, combined with Brick hitting a rookie wall (I agree on that one; it's rough for rookie starters, particularly linemen & RB's). They caught some breaks with a favorable schedule & injuries in the Pats game, playing Miami when they were pitiful, other things too.

But even if it were the case, I doubt it. It wouldn't surprise me though & I wouldn't expect the same collapse next year, as these guys will show up to camp next year in better condition in the first place. I mean, consider their conditioning from the prior year.

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I am very pleased with how most of the team has played. I think Spermy is correct, I wouldn't call it a collapse. I would call it us playing over our heads and it catching up with us. Now, that doesn't mean I'm with the "well they are playing better then we thought they would so lets excuse crappy play from our QB and so forth". I really think it is still going to be close if we get into the playoffs. We are going to win at least 2 of the 3 remaining games and are going to need help from other teams to get in. Where as before we controlled our own destiny....

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if the Jets lose out it will be considered a late season collapse

here's my question, if this happens, how much of it will be due to the Junction Boys training camp Mangini was running this summer? Will he do it again?

I think if they lose to Oakland the last week it would be.

at Minnesota and at Miami were thought to be easy wins that just a few weeks ago. Now both games look tough.

That Groh team was an older, more veteran group that were basically on the verge of a revolt when they went down the tubes.

Bruce Coslet didn't exactly have the hardest camps and his teams went down the drain in 91 (Yes they did beat Miami the last week to sneak in) with losses to Buffalo, Detroit and New England) and in 93 when the lost 4 of 5.

Walton routinely killed his teams in camp and it showed in 86 and 87.

With a coach you have to know when to push them and when to back off. The best ones are the ones that know when to back off.

We will see with Mangini.

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Anyone who is bashing Mangini is just dead wrong..The NFL is a league where anyone can beat anyone at anytime..Last week should prove that to any doubters,Pat's, Indy, Dallas white wash..Big picture here fella's and ladies..We need some more high performance parts for this engine to seriously compete on the big stage..we all know this to be true..What Mangini and his staff has done in year one is pretty amazing and will get better every year..We made like a two year leap this year compared to what we all thought was realistic for the 2006 version if the NYJ's. most of the rookies have gotten serious PT and will make quatum leaps next year.. We have 3 picks in the first two rounds in the 2007 draft..We have the right guy coaching now!!..Let's enjoy these last three games in this playoff chase and realize its week 14 and we are still in the hunt..who would of THUNK it!!!

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I think if they lose to Oakland the last week it would be.

at Minnesota and at Miami were thought to be easy wins that just a few weeks ago. Now both games look tough.

That Groh team was an older, more veteran group that were basically on the verge of a revolt when they went down the tubes.

Bruce Coslet didn't exactly have the hardest camps and his teams went down the drain in 91 (Yes they did beat Miami the last week to sneak in) with losses to Buffalo, Detroit and New England) and in 93 when the lost 4 of 5.

Walton routinely killed his teams in camp and it showed in 86 and 87.

With a coach you have to know when to push them and when to back off. The best ones are the ones that know when to back off.

We will see with Mangini.

Hermie runs as soft a camp as anyone. How's that panning out?

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Take a giant step back and look at the big picture-

This season, even if they lose out, has been and unmitigated success.

But they aren't losing out. The Jets have 2 tough raod games and a gimme home game. I'm rooting for the Alabama/Saban rumors to run rampant for the next 2 weeks to make at least one of those road games more winnable.

We got rid of the idiot HC and got the best young coach in football.We demoted a GM who, while a good scout, fell in love with workout warriors, and elevated to GM a guy who works hand-in-glove with said young coach. And this young coach has brought along numerous young players who languished under the Idiot. We've also lost fewer man games to injury than any other team in the NFL. So as far as Groh/Junction, the players are on the field. At this time of year, everyone plays hurt.

We dumped the overpaid center and said farewell to the over-the-hill running back.

We installed 2 rookies at the most improtnat spots on the OL and they've performed magnificently.

We've had improvment on both sides of the ball,. And we've done that without a feature back, and with a flawed QB and a MLB that's probably ill-suited to the 3-4.

We have good cap room (Michael Turner mentioned today in Cimini's column; for a staff that doesn't talk, this is becoming a screaming chorus that they want this guy and don't expect the Bolts to match) and 3 picks likely within the top 40(the Skins have to losoe out, which could happen).

If the Jets get a WC, it will be a cherry on top. But no matter what, this franchise is FINALLY turned around and headed in the right direction.

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Hermie runs as soft a camp as anyone. How's that panning out?

That is what I'm saying.

The Jets have had coaches that have run brutal camps. (Walton) and coaches that have run soft camps (Herm, Coslet, you could throw Carroll in there as well but I think the players quit on him)

Herm was 9-11 in December-January (Not including playoffs)

Walton was 7-16

Coslet 5-12

The only coach the Jets have had that good December records was Parcells and Parcells wasn't exactly running "Club Jet" when he was there.

We are going to find out about Mangini.

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This is ridiculous. When our starting QB plays as bad as he has over the last 9 games, it is an amzing wonder that we are where we are. To blame the fact that our QB sucks on the coaching staff is just assinine.

Wait a second-herm was an idiot for playing a sub-par Curtis Martin.

What does that make Mangini playing a qb "that sucks"

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if the Jets lose out it will be considered a late season collapse

here's my question, if this happens, how much of it will be due to the Junction Boys training camp Mangini was running this summer? Will he do it again?

Easy on the Junction Boys reference there Bit; I know the camp this year was a tad more strenuious than Herm's Fantasy Land, but Paul "BEAR" Bryant, Mangini is not! To answer your question, I do not think the tough camp has any correlation to the poor play last week. To credit Mangini, up until now everyone was full of praise for what he has accomplished, thus his camp style has yet to be harshly criticized; however, now that there is a speed bump, camp questions come in to play. Personally, I do not see any relevance with th etough camp affecting the Jets play on Sun. If anything, it appeared as though they were playing in their first scrimmage, still in desperate need of more grouling camp work! CRANK THE MUSIC UP AND GET TO WORK M-F'RS!

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Easy on the Junction Boys reference there Bit; I know the camp this year was a tad more strenuious than Herm's Fantasy Land, but Paul "BEAR" Bryant, Mangini is not! To answer your question, I do not think the tough camp has any correlation to the poor play last week. To credit Mangini, up until now everyone was full of praise for what he has accomplished, thus his camp style has yet to be harshly criticized; however, now that there is a speed bump, camp questions come in to play. Personally, I do not see any relevance with th etough camp affecting the Jets play on Sun. If anything, it appeared as though they were playing in their first scrimmage, still in desperate need of more grouling camp work! CRANK THE MUSIC UP AND GET TO WORK M-F'RS!

The difference between Graoh and Mangini's camp is that it was wide out in the open that the playrs were abhorrant to teh manner that Groh ran his camp and went to him on several occassions, at least. This was public knowledge before Groh even left.

There are no such reverberations with Mangini, that I am aware of. And this stuff would trickle out, believe me.

The difference, I think Grohs camp and practices were PHYSICALLY exhausting. I think Mangini's are more of a mental challenge.

Look at the Jet performances in 2nd halves this year. They are not playing liek a physically tired team.

I take no stock in this premise

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The difference between Graoh and Mangini's camp is that it was wide out in the open that the playrs were abhorrant to teh manner that Groh ran his camp and went to him on several occassions, at least. This was public knowledge before Groh even left.

There are no such reverberations with Mangini, that I am aware of. And this stuff would trickle out, believe me.

The difference, I think Grohs camp and practices were PHYSICALLY exhausting. I think Mangini's are more of a mental challenge.

Look at the Jet performances in 2nd halves this year. They are not playing liek a physically tired team.

I take no stock in this premise

hit_nail_on_head.jpg

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Wait a second-herm was an idiot for playing a sub-par Curtis Martin.

What does that make Mangini playing a qb "that sucks"

Don't put words in my mouth. Herm was an idiot for allowing a badly injured player out on the field. Herm was an idiot for an enormous amount of reasons that I don't feel I need to get into at this point.

We don't have a QB that can play well enough to take this team into the playoffs. 2 are inept and 1 is a rookie. That's not the coaching staff's fault.

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Don't put words in my mouth. Herm was an idiot for allowing a badly injured player out on the field. Herm was an idiot for an enormous amount of reasons that I don't feel I need to get into at this point.

We don't have a QB that can play well enough to take this team into the playoffs. 2 are inept and 1 is a rookie. That's not the coaching staff's fault.

I thought the point was to "see what Clemens has"? Isn't that the coaches fault?

Or has all your calling of posters out who don't agree with yolur premise in full throat just a display of machisimo?

BTW-I was referring more to teh Lamont Jordan situation with Martin

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I thought the point was to "see what Clemens has"? Isn't that the coaches fault?

Or has all your calling of posters out who don't agree with yolur premise in full throat just a display of machisimo?

BTW-I was referring more to teh Lamont Jordan situation with Martin

Hey Scott, the topic of this thread is referring to whether or not Mangini's tough camp is why we have seem to begun a late season slide. It infers that the players are tired because of it. I disagree with that, IMO the late season slide has alot more to do with our QB's play than anything else.

If you want to debate why the CS staff hasn't put Clemens in, why don't you go to the thread where that debate would be appropriate. Otherwise, stop following me around asking the same ridiculous question over and over. I already answered it 3 days ago.

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