Herm- luck not involved in Chiefs making playoffs

[Preston Howley III]

BS.

Bradways last 3 interviews were Marvin Lewis (also pushed by Tags as minority candidate, but Marvin was a established DC), John Fox (established DC and wanted job badly, as Giant Dc he wouldnt have to move for Gods sake) and Herm (established as Monte Kiffins DB coach, never a DC). Bradway had a 66% chance of getting it right. Oh well, nice try Terry.

If I'm not mistaken, the candidates the Jets interviewed were: Mo Carthon, Ted Cottrell, and Herman Edwards. I don't think they interviewed Fox or Lewis, because they were still employed by teams that were in the playoffs. Nonetheless, Herm was a done deal. Even if the jets did intervew Lewis, and liked him more, Woody HAD to take Herm, because Herm was the only one who was in the NFL minority program. Marv Lewis was asked to join it, and refused.

[Preston Howley III]

here you go again posting nonsense, waht that link has to do w/ herm I haven't a clue but keep posting it and some people might think you are posting something relevant.

I didn't think I should have to preface it like I did the last link I posted, you disengenuous, dishonest creep.

[Preston Howley III]

Run away? it was long post and took awhile to respond. he has SOME good points and some misinformed poitns. I corrected him on the misinformed points.

"What exactly happened?"

I'm still waiting.

[johnny green balls]

You seem to forget Chad had a torn rotator cuff down the stretch and in the playoffs which is the main reason our O struggled

haha i find it hilarious that you think this is a defense of herm. yep, our O struggled because chad was hurt, not because herm refused to yank him even though the whole league knew he couldn't throw.

and even if you think chad with a broken wing gave us the best chance to win-- herm is a scoundrel for risking the career of our franchise qb.

[Preston Howley III]

haha i find it hilarious that you think this is a defense of herm. yep, our O struggled because chad was hurt, not because herm refused to yank him even though the whole league knew he couldn't throw.

he couldn't play Quincy Carter any more that year, 'cos he already threw him under the wheels after the Baltimore fiasco. The Jets were 2-1 with Carter, and should have been 3-0 if not for Herm and Hacketts idiocy.

[nyjunc]

"What exactly happened?"

I'm still waiting.

Did you not see my post? keep looking it's not that hard to find.

[nyjunc]

haha i find it hilarious that you think this is a defense of herm. yep, our O struggled because chad was hurt, not because herm refused to yank him even though the whole league knew he couldn't throw.

and even if you think chad with a broken wing gave us the best chance to win-- herm is a scoundrel for risking the career of our franchise qb.

You are probably one of the same folks who criticized Abraham for not playing in the '04 playoffs. Chad is a tough player, he gave us the best chance to win, the shoulder was give the ok by Dr's to play and he played through it.

[johnny green balls]

You are probably one of the same folks who criticized Abraham for not playing in the '04 playoffs. Chad is a tough player, he gave us the best chance to win, the shoulder was give the ok by Dr's to play and he played through it.

someone please tell me this guy is joking.

[nyjunc]

he couldn't play Quincy Carter any more that year, 'cos he already threw him under the wheels after the Baltimore fiasco. The Jets were 2-1 with Carter, and should have been 3-0 if not for Herm and Hacketts idiocy.

He led us to 23 pts at ARi and Cle in the 2 wins when Ari and Cle the next week after the Jet games gave up a combined 84 points. Yeah Quincy gave us the best chance to win.

[johnny green balls]

He led us to 23 pts at ARi and Cle in the 2 wins when Ari and Cle the next week after the Jet games gave up a combined 84 points. Yeah Quincy gave us the best chance to win.

chad>quincy

chad with a TORN ROTATOR CUFF<anyone

not to mention playing him could risk further damage and the rest of his career. all this about herm being a "player's coach" b.s. herm is a "herm's coach" he doesn't give two ****s about his guys. he just lacks the moral courage and toughness to instill disipline and tell guys to drop weight and thus he's euphamized as a "player's coach" when in reality he's a spineless pussy.

[BP]

It's the opposite to Jet fans, everytime we lost it was b/c of herm but when we won it was b/c of the players. Herm sahres blame for losses and credit for wins. he wasn't a great coahc but he did a very good job here and is doing so in KC. He wasn't the GM here, the few bad signings we had(outside of white) were not high salary mistakes anyway. The guys they brought in for '02(Beasley, Garnes, Cowart) helped us win only our 2nd EVER AFC East Title.

I know you like to be redundant..but can you reply to this??

Garnes and Cowart sucked..are you kidding me??I used to get aggravated when we won with Herm..he always got the blame..even if we won..

[Preston Howley III]

Did you not see my post? keep looking it's not that hard to find.

The response to Sperm? That?

I find it fascinating that their are people like you who fanatically defend Herm, and rationalize his incompetence. It truly is astounding.

Woody owes you deprogramming, and lifelong counseling. It's the least he could do, for the damage he has inflicted on you psychologically.

[nyjunc]

chad>quincy

chad with a TORN ROTATOR CUFF<anyone

not to mention playing him could risk further damage and the rest of his career. all this about herm being a "player's coach" b.s. herm is a "herm's coach" he doesn't give two ****s about his guys. he just lacks the moral courage and toughness to instill disipline and tell guys to drop weight and thus he's euphamized as a "player's coach" when in reality he's a spineless pussy.

Chad at 50% is better than Quincy at 100%.

[SouthernJet]

You are probably one of the same folks who criticized Abraham for not playing in the '04 playoffs. Chad is a tough player, he gave us the best chance to win, the shoulder was give the ok by Dr's to play and he played through it.

At JN his name isnt Abraham.

Its POS.

He has earned that moniker.

Please dont tell me you BOTH a HermaRoid AND a AbraTurd fan?

[nyjunc]

I know you like to be redundant..but can you reply to this??

They sucked early on in '02 but they , like the rest of the D, played alot better down the stretch and were a big reason why we won 7 of 9 to end the season. These guys were part of a D that is the ONLY D to shutout Peyton manning & the Colts.

[johnny green balls]

Chad at 50% is better than Quincy at 100%.

was it worth risking further injury to chad? in fact that's exactly what happened, didn't it. playing him strained it further, delayed his surgery then when that "player's coach" threw him unready into the next season he tore it again. that herm, always looking out for his guys.

[Preston Howley III]

He led us to 23 pts at ARi and Cle in the 2 wins when Ari and Cle the next week after the Jet games gave up a combined 84 points. Yeah Quincy gave us the best chance to win.

Ha ha ha!

Are you serious? Sheeeeeeeeeeit, if we're going to start cookie cutting wins and losses based on points scored, I can rip through Hermy's track record of games the Jets won, but my God, did they look like sh*t doing it. Vinny, Chad, Quincy, Brooks... It didn't matter.

Herm had that uncanny ability to bring out the worst in his players, and underachieve, and barely eke out wins the oponent had no business being in in the first place. Don't even go down that road. We'll be discussing the 2003 season until April.

[SouthernJet]

Lets not even get into playing a OBVIOUS injured and ineffective Curtis Martin. Who cares if CM says 'I can go coach'. CM has great courage but at some point the HC has to have the balls to say 'You are last in yards/per carry in NFL. I know you THINK you can play, but I am benching you. For THE TEAMS SAKE AND YOUR SAKE'

[nyjunc]

The response to Sperm? That?

I find it fascinating that their are people like you who fanatically defend Herm, and rationalize his incompetence. It truly is astounding.

Woody owes you deprogramming, and lifelong counseling. It's the least he could do, for the damage he has inflicted on you psychologically.

this is where the anti-Herm gets crazy, just b/c I defend Herm doesn't mean I think he is a great coahc. I appreciate what he was able to accomplish here but I don't think he was a great coach. He was one of the greatest in Jets history but that's not saying much. I defend Herm b/c of the irrational hatred of him by the anti-Herm. they act like he did nothing good and that he was responsible for every loss and not a part of any win. You don't go to the playoffs 4 tims in 6 years(w/ 2 diff teams) by accident. I think he is a good coach that can get a team to a certain leevl and if everything broke perfect he could lead a team to a Championship. I would much rather have had Parcells stay or Belichick stay than herm but Herm took over a team NO ONE wanted to coach and brought some stability back to the franchise and respectability. I appreciate that, I was at every home game in the 90s when there were 20-30,000 people in Dec in '90, '92, '94, '95, '96 so I appreciate dwaht we did under him. In the 40+ years prior to Herm we made the playoffs 8 times, in 5 years Herm led us to 3- that's almost half in a fraction of the time. I appreciate that and he did it in a division w/ a dynasty team!

[Preston Howley III]

someone please tell me this guy is joking.

Johnny, he's sick. he needs help.

[nyjunc]

was it worth risking further injury to chad? in fact that's exactly what happened, didn't it. playing him strained it further, delayed his surgery then when that "player's coach" threw him unready into the next season he tore it again. that herm, always looking out for his guys.

we were a kick away from the title game, yeah it was worth it. As long as Chad was willing to risk it.

[BP]

They sucked early on in '02 but they , like the rest of the D, played alot better down the stretch and were a big reason why we won 7 of 9 to end the season. These guys were part of a D that is the ONLY D to shutout Peyton manning & the Colts.

They sucked the next week against the Raiders..The Raiders were jumping our receivers routs all day..and stacked the line with 10 men and we ran right into it..NO adjustments all game..and no sense of urgency when we were behind..but wait..that's not Herm's fault..right??

[SouthernJet]

this is where the anti-Herm gets crazy, just b/c I defend Herm doesn't mean I think he is a great coahc. I appreciate what he was able to accomplish here but I don't think he was a great coach. He was one of the greatest in Jets history but that's not saying much. I defend Herm b/c of the irrational hatred of him by the anti-Herm. they act like he did nothing good and that he was responsible for every loss and not a part of any win. You don't go to the playoffs 4 tims in 6 years(w/ 2 diff teams) by accident. I think he is a good coach that can get a team to a certain leevl and if everything broke perfect he could lead a team to a Championship. I would much rather have had Parcells stay or Belichick stay than herm but Herm took over a team NO ONE wanted to coach and brought some stability back to the franchise and respectability. I appreciate that, I was at every home game in the 90s when there were 20-30,000 people in Dec in '90, '92, '94, '95, '96 so I appreciate dwaht we did under him. In the 40+ years prior to Herm we made the playoffs 8 times, in 5 years Herm led us to 3- that's almost half in a fraction of the time. I appreciate that and he did it in a division w/ a dynasty team!

OK fair.

Who do you think right now, today is a better HC? Herm or Mangini?

Right now, you own a team and you can hire either Eric or Herm. Who do you hire?

No if the team is this or that, just bottom line. Who is better RIGHT NOW in your opinion as a NFL HC?

[nyjunc]

Lets not even get into playing a OBVIOUS injured and ineffective Curtis Martin. Who cares if CM says 'I can go coach'. CM has great courage but at some point the HC has to have the balls to say 'You are last in yards/per carry in NFL. I know you THINK you can play, but I am benching you. For THE TEAMS SAKE AND YOUR SAKE'

Who did we have to go to? Ced was ineffective until late in the year. Curtis has always played through pain, in retrospect should he have taken him out? yeah but Curtis is a guy that always play through pain. Parcells gave it to curtis over 400 times in '98(including postseason) and Curtis was playing hurt all year long(and missed a reg season game).

[nyjunc]

OK fair.

Who do you think right now, today is a better HC? Herm or Mangini?

Right now, you own a team and you can hire either Eric or Herm. Who do you hire?

No if the team is this or that, just bottom line. Who is better RIGHT NOW in your opinion as a NFL HC?

I wouldn't trade back, I think Mangini has more potnetial to be a HC that can lead a team to a SB. I appreciate what Herm did but after last season I thought it was time for a change and I am very happy w/ where we are at and w/ our CS.

[SouthernJet]

we were a kick away from the title game, yeah it was worth it. As long as Chad was willing to risk it.

at what point does a HC have to say 'You cant throw over 20 yards, you have no velocity, you could get ruin yourself for life' .

Anyone who went to preseason camp saw that Chad couldnt throw yet. He wasnt ready.

The HC just cant take the players word on it (see Curtis martin fiasco). Sometimes they have to make the tough calls.

[SouthernJet]

Who did we have to go to? Ced was ineffective until late in the year. Curtis has always played through pain, in retrospect should he have taken him out? yeah but Curtis is a guy that always play through pain. Parcells gave it to curtis over 400 times in '98(including postseason) and Curtis was playing hurt all year long(and missed a reg season game).

CM wasnt last in NFL in yards/per carry those years. I am saying it was OBVIOUS HE WAS THROUGH.

[SouthernJet]

I wouldn't trade back, I think Mangini has more potnetial to be a HC that can lead a team to a SB. I appreciate what Herm did but after last season I thought it was time for a change and I am very happy w/ where we are at and w/ our CS.

Who is a better HC TODAY? Herm or Mangini.

Simple question.

[nyjunc]

CM wasnt last in NFL in yards/per carry those years. I am saying it was OBVIOUS HE WAS THROUGH.

I think he was averaging about 3.2 YPC most of last year and Lamont was averging around 3.5- why didn't Oak sit him down? We also had no OL so it wasn't like a healthy Curtis would have done much better.

[nyjunc]

Who is a better HC TODAY? Herm or Mangini.

Simple question.

I'd rather have Mangini, mangini is a much better schemer and adapts much better, herms' stergnth is delgating to coordinators and motivating his team. Both have strengths and weaknesses and long term I think mangini is the choice but Herm had a very good year w/ less talent and a more difficult sched.

[SouthernJet]

I'd rather have Mangini, mangini is a much better schemer and adapts much better, herms' stergnth is delgating to coordinators and motivating his team. Both have strengths and weaknesses and long term I think mangini is the choice but Herm had a very good year w/ less talent and a more difficult sched.

OK fair. I agree Mangini is the better NFL coach .

Debatable about KC vs Jets talent level.

But thanks for answering.

[Sperm Edwards]

First of all, while I likely won't agree with you much, I will at least give you props for not running away like jensen.

Went to the WCO offense b/c of CHAD, they were thinking down the road not for 2001 and in 2001 they didn't allow Vinny to ruin their season like he had in 2000. I am not blaming Vinny for '00 as he was back from the injury and had no WRs which made it all the more inexplicable that the Jets would throw the ball so much. In 2000 Vinny threw 590 times in 15 games and threw 25 INTs, in 2001 Vinny threw it just 441 times in 16 games.

Hackett was hired. That is the reason for the WCO. He's never coached anything other than the WCO. Chad had little to do with it, as he wasn't even given an opportunity to play until Vinny got injured. We did not install a WCO because maybe in a year or two a QB we drafted would be suited for it. And if it was, it's doubly stupid with a team capable of winning now.

They tried something our of despertaion since they lost Fergsuon to injury, it didn't work but at least they tried.

You have to be kidding me. Herm was not shy about turning Ellis into Warren Sapp. He had Ellis put on >10 lbs and turned him from a HUGE end with decent speed into a puny DT who ran like a sloth. This was planned before Ferguson got injured. Ferguson was their NT. Ellis was put inside to play 3-DT, not NT.

The Colts ended up 6-10 but they were healthy and good in Game 1.

They were not as good as they looked against us. They suffered no injuries during the game that I can remember, yet after that first game they went 5-10. They were a terrible defense that we did not exploit. James' injury had little (if anything) to do with their record, as Rhodes was frankly better than James that year anyway & they still finished with the #2 offense.

No injuries to sepak of? 4/5 of our Ol were either out(Szott) or playing hurt(Mawae, Thomas and Fabini). Curtis was hurt in game 1 and playing w/ a high ankle sprain. he gained less than 100 yds in the first 4 games combined. The D had 6 new players and Sam Cowart was banged up as was John Abraham who was playing w/ a knee injury from late in preseason.

Why are Herm's players (particularly linemen) always hurt?

Why did he play Martin instead of sitting him for a couple of weeks to let him heal properly?

I agree we should have seen more of Lamont.

no comment needed

it didn't help that Chrebet fumbled a ball at the Cle 2.

Chrebet didn't blow a 3-TD lead. C'mon.

Still carrying extra weight from the year before?

I doubt Herm was convinced the move-Ellis-to-DT was over. After all, they did draft Bryan Thomas. Still carrying the weight doesn't mean he had trouble dieting.

The jets also beat up NE at NE on a Sunday Night the week before the GB game. NE's last home loss until 2005 and their last back to back losses until we beat them in Nov this year.

First of all, NE was good but not special in 2002.

Second of all, it is more relevant how they did in 2002 than 2003-beyond. And IN 2002 they had not only had lost back-to-back games before, but they lost back-to-back-to-back-to-back games. FOUR in a row earlier that season.

How they did the following season is hardly relevant.

That was a 10-10 game late in the 3rd and we were down a TD in the 4th when it began to get away from us. A slaughetring is like Miami at Jax or Den a few years earlier.

Fine; pick a different adjective for futility. When I see a team score 3 unanswered TD's against us like we weren't even there, you're talking semantics.

Herm was not the GM.

Herm knew perfectly well that Coles was without a contract for the next year.

We were down 14-10 at the half. We led 10-7 in the 2nd qtr. the giant game was Chad's first start and we got screwed on multiple calls that game. Chad led us back from 28-14 down in the 4th qtr to send it to OT.

When Chad went into the game we were up 10-0. What POSSIBLE explanation could be made for ANNOUNCING that Chad will come in 5 days before the game?

Don't give me that "Chad was rusty" crap. If he's unfit to play he should stay on the bench until he is. The Giants were mercilessly horrible that season. Only a win vs the Jets prevented them from having the worst record in the NFL.

Becht had cuaght a 2 pt conversion that they ruled incomplete and we lost by 2. Herm would lead us to a sweep of Miami the next year so I guess the demons were back?

We used to find a way to beat them no matter what; that was over.

2004 I hardly consider beating Miami an accomplishment worthy of praise, since pretty much everyone beat them.

It looked that way heading into the season but SD would go 12-4 and Buf 9-7 and we gave SD their only loss at SD(plus SD was 1-0 heading into the game) during the reg season plus Cincy was an up and coming team.

That's fiddling with numbers for your own agenda.

We beat SD after they were 1-0...after beating the Texans. Two weeks later they would be 1-2. In week 2, we did not face the 12-4 Chargers. They were still sucky (and considered so). I mean in our game Flutie was getting significant playing-time. They had all but given up on Brees, drafting a QB with the #1 pick they earned by being the suckiest.

When we played Buffalo they were 0-3 and 2-5 (those 2 wins coming against the 0-5 Dolphins and the 2-4 Cardinals). They were not 9-7. You make it sound like they were some powerhouse when we faced them. And this marvelous team couldn't beat the Steelers' second & third stringers anyway. They were a total paper tiger by the end of the season. But when we played them they sucked even on paper.

Cincy was up-and-coming later in the season. And since when is up-and-coming the same as up-and here? Spin it however you want, Cincy started the season 0-4. We didn't play the 8-8 Bengals in week 1.

embarrassed? we lost 22-17 and we were winning when Chad got hurt.

A 6-1 team losing to a 2-5 team is an embarrassment. Yes.

Stupid play but alot of caoches do that. mangini 4th and G from 3 against Indy, OSK against Chi, parcells halfback pass against det '97,...

Not the same. We were destroying Baltimore with conventional plays. We were up 14-0 already and driving down the field with ease. Those games you mentioned we were trying for a spark. And pointing to Parcells' stupidity in that game hardly excuses Edwards for doing it.

You seem to forget Chad had a torn rotator cuff down the stretch and in the playoffs which is the main reason our O struggled.

Chad's rotator cuff affected him more after surgery & rehab than right after the injury. He seemed to be throwing just fine in between his bad games.

Brien missed a 47 yarder by inched, if he kicks it the same way on the 43 yarder we win.

There is no justification for making a difficult kick more difficult by adding distance, particularly with a weak-legged kicker with recent chokes under his belt. I'm not 100% sure that Mornhinweg electing to kick in overtime was dumber than this.

the next week in the same direction Vinatieri booted a 47 yarder.

Brien doesn't have nearly the leg that Vinatieri has (both in terms of strength and being clutch) & you know it. Herm should've known it also.

yep it was all about the TC that's why we were healthy for the most part in '01, '02(late) and '04 and why under parcells we had an injury plagued '99 seaso despite his tough camp.

OK fine. Players being in better shape has no relevance to injuries. Vinny's ruptured Achilles was because a tough camp is no better than a soft one. Right.

[Preston Howley III]

this is where the anti-Herm gets crazy, just b/c I defend Herm doesn't mean I think he is a great coahc. I appreciate what he was able to accomplish here but I don't think he was a great coach. He was one of the greatest in Jets history but that's not saying much. I defend Herm b/c of the irrational hatred of him by the anti-Herm. they act like he did nothing good and that he was responsible for every loss and not a part of any win. You don't go to the playoffs 4 tims in 6 years(w/ 2 diff teams) by accident. I think he is a good coach that can get a team to a certain leevl and if everything broke perfect he could lead a team to a Championship. I would much rather have had Parcells stay or Belichick stay than herm but Herm took over a team NO ONE wanted to coach and brought some stability back to the franchise and respectability. I appreciate that, I was at every home game in the 90s when there were 20-30,000 people in Dec in '90, '92, '94, '95, '96 so I appreciate dwaht we did under him. In the 40+ years prior to Herm we made the playoffs 8 times, in 5 years Herm led us to 3- that's almost half in a fraction of the time. I appreciate that and he did it in a division w/ a dynasty team!

The team got progressively worse, under Herm. He gutted the secondary, the offensive line, did nothing to improve it in five years, starters were penciled in and given veteran preferential treatment, he developed no players. He exhausted the shelf life out of an aging veteran core, and when it expired, he quit the team with two years remaining on his contract and negotiated a new deal with Kansas City while he was still obligated to the Jets, during a season in which his players were dropping like flies, the franchise QB was put BACK INTO A GAME after re-injuring a career ending shoulder...

How can you defend this guy?

How?

he scapegoated his players, his coaches, and when their was nobody left to throw under the bus, he orchestrated his way out of town. He's a scumbag. And he can't coach. 6 years in the league, and he's still doing the same predictable sht. He knows how to make himself look good on paper. He's already got them discussing "rebuilding" in KC. Carl Peterson already wrote the season off, by placing starters on the IR he could have used in the playoffs, so he can put practice squad guys on the 53 man roster. Nobody in their right mind thought Cincy, Denver, and whoever was going to simeltaneously lose and backdoor Herm into the playoffs.

But Herm, once again lucks into it. And, he looks good on paper-

His team was "rebuilding" after all, and he still got them in the playoffs!!!

Wow, that herm is something else, isn't he?

This is a guy who simply overcomes his own folly, lucks out, and then gets commended for it. It's mind blowing to see this Emporer has no clothes drama played out, time and time again.

[Bugg]

Why didn't we hire Marvin lewis then? if we were just looking for a black candiate then why not hire Marvin? or Cottrell? both had success as coordinators and lewis just guided the best D in 15 years.

Edwards, the DB coach for Tampa, was part of Tags' NFL minority program;Marv Lewis, busy coordinating the 2000 Ravens defense rather than kissing the commish's a$$, wasn't. Woody's an owner for about 5 minutes, and to get his bid approved had to do as he was told by Tagliabue.Tags forced Johnson's hand to hire his guy. It was a disgrace, and I don't think Johnson has since forgotten how the NFL stuck him with Coach Jerk Chicken. It's probably why when Edwards started squawking about an extension last year Johnson was looking to fire him anayway.

[SouthernJet]

I don't think Johnson has since forgotten how the NFL stuck him with Coach Jerk Chicken. It's probably why when Edwards started squawking about an extension last year Johnson was looking to fire him anayway.

agree 100%.

and its why Woody didnt flinch in stealin one of Tags Power Owners (Kraft) coaches.

he basically said 'fool me once shame on you...'