Scouting reports on Yanks' new young talent

[AFJF]

Cashman is the man. He continues to impress me this off-season. Every single move has addressed a need or dumped significant salary while importing several young arms (three for sheff, one for Wright, and now two more for RJ)

Steven Jackson RHP

Another college pitcher who jumps straight to Double-A after spending last year in Lo-A South Bend, Jackson is a pure power pitcher who has a devastating slider that caused, among other things, 12 wild pitches last season. The Diamondbacks made have openly stated they feel their Double-A rotation could be the big league rotation before too long, and for a long time, and expect big things from Jackson, a 10th round pick out of Clemson in 2004, this season.

Last season in AA

8-11 2.65 ERA 149.2 IP 42 BB 125 Ks 1.18 WHIP

Alberto Gonzalez

For a minute there is looked like the best defensive shortstop in the Diamondbacks system might be getting buried. Stephen Drew is still the SS of the future (and before too long the present), but Gonzalez, and his incredible defense (he started last season with a 30+ game errorless streak at Lo-A South Bend), started hitting last season, and his continued development will be something to watch, as he could play every infield position, and do it with better defense than almost anyone else in the system.

Last season in AA

.290 BA 37 BB 42 Ks 6 HR 50 RBI 5 SB 13 Sac bunts .356 OBP

Ross Ohlendorf RHP

Ohlendorf is one of several bright pitching prospects the Diamondbacks took high in the last two drafts. A fourth round pick out of Princeton, where he returned early in the 2005 season to receive his diploma, Ohlendorf jumps straight to Double-A after spending last season in Lo-A South Bend and at 23 years old is primed to get fast tracked.

Last season in AA

10-8 177.2 IP 125 Ks 29 BBs 1.18 WHIP

[madmike1]

This is a bad trade. They should've gotten more value for Johnson. These guys are marginal prospects.

[AFJF]

This is a bad trade. They should've gotten more value for Johnson. These guys are marginal prospects.

Wake up dude. They just dumped an over the hill 43 year old coming off of back surgery. Getting ANYTHING at all in that scenario is a steal. They added pitchers who have performed very well in AA. Convincing a team to take Randy Johnson off your hands for nothing would have been a good deal. Dump 14 mil in salary and make room for a pitcher who can post a sub 5.00 ERA, give up less than 87 long balls, and get better over time..not worse.

Oh wait, they're marginal because you say so?

[madmike1]

Wake up dude. They just dumped an over the hill 43 year old coming off of back surgery. Getting ANYTHING at all in that scenario is a steal. They added pitchers who have performed very well at every level they've been so far.

Oh wait, they're marginal because you say so?

They are marginal because their numbers say they are marginal. They didn't get Owings OR Nippert who are the dbacks' 2 best pitching prospects. They basically got an AVG middle RP and 2 C+ prospects for a guy who had more value then that.

[AFJF]

They are marginal because their numbers say they are marginal. They didn't get Owings OR Nippert who are the dbacks' 2 best pitching prospects. They basically got an AVG middle RP and 2 C+ prospects for a guy who had more value then that.

Do you even pay attention to the things you say? Since when is a 1.18 WHIP marginal with a 3-1 K/BB ratio and a sub 3.00 ERA? Yeah, that's absolutely friggin disgraceful. Home Runs are fun to watch. Cashman should have gotten two RJ clones so we could watch more balls fly out of Yankee Stadium for years to come. You've got to be kidding me. Finding young arms with excellent control is not an easy thing to do.

[madmike1]

Do you even pay attention to the things you say? Since when is a 1.18 WHIP marginal with a 3-1 K/BB ratio?

Thats as a 24 year old in AA who is too old for his league. All the rest of his numbers are amazingly unimpressive too. There is a reason he's not in anyones top 50 prospects list. He's a C+ prospect. Same with Jackson. They are both too old for the leagues they were in last year and neither of them dominated.

[AFJF]

They are marginal because their numbers say they are marginal. They didn't get Owings OR Nippert who are the dbacks' 2 best pitching prospects. They basically got an AVG middle RP and 2 C+ prospects for a guy who had more value then that.

Please answer me this Mike and do me a favor and stay on topic. I know you tend to change the subject and your story when you get called out and/or proven wrong. Just answer this.

How can you sit there and say you would prefer Nippert who got SHELLED in AAA (4.87 ERA and 1.52 WHIP with a 2-1 BB/K ratio) or Owings? Do you honestly expect a GM to hand over a blue chip prospect for an over the hill POS who makes 16 mil per season? What GM would be able to justify to the owner and fans that it was worth giving up one of the best pitching prospects in MLB for a guy who will give you one or two years while you're in the middle of rebuilding? Please explain your line of thinking and list the names of all the MLB GMs that would give up a prized arm for a 43 year old coming off back surgery.

[AFJF]

Thats as a 24 year old in AA who is too old for his league. All the rest of his numbers are amazingly unimpressive too. There is a reason he's not in anyones top 50 prospects list. He's a C+ prospect. Same with Jackson. They are both too old for the leagues they were in last year and neither of them dominated.

Way to change your story. That didn't take very long at all.

MM: Their numbers say they're marginal

ME: No, their numbers say they're good

MM: Um..I mean they're playing with younger players

It took you exactly one response to completely change your argument. You're unreal.

[madmike1]

Please answer me this Mike and do me a favor and stay on topic. I know you tend to change the subject and your story when you get called out and/or proven wrong. Just answer this simple question.

How can you sit there and say you would prefer Nippert who got SHELLED in AAA (4.87 ERA and 1.52 WHIP with a 2-1 BB/K ratio) or Owings? Do you honestly expect a GM to hand over a blue chip prospect for an over the hill POS who makes 16 mil per season? What GM would be able to justify to the owner and fans that it was worth giving up one of the best pitching prospects in MLB for a guy who will give you one or two years while you're in the middle of rebuilding? Please explain your line of thinking and list the names of all the MLB GMs that would give up a prized arm for a 43 year old coming off back surgery.

I'm not changing the subject. You're taking one stat (WHIP) and taking it out of context with the rest of the stats and the FACT that both Jackson and Ohlindorf are too old for the leagues they are in. Is Nippert great? No. But he pitched better then AA then either of the guys the yankees got and at a younger age and Owings just blows both of them away.

As far as johnson goes. The yankees didn't have to trade him for such a sorry return. You want to use WHIP as the be all end all? Johnson's whip was 1.24 and his k9 was WELL over 3-1 so you calling him a POS is just taking one stat (his ERA) and blowing that out of the proportion. Would i trade him if we could get GOOD PROSPECTS back for him? Sure but these guys arn't good prospects.

The yankees are a worse team today then they were yesterday

[madmike1]

Way to change your story. That didn't take very long at all.

MM: Their numbers say they're marginal

ME: No, their numbers say they're good

MM: Um..I mean they're playing with younger players

It took you exactly one response to completely change your argument. You're unreal.

Thats a HORRIBLE characterization of this argument. They are MARGINAL PROSPECTS thats with their numbers taken into consideration.

[AFJF]

I'm not changing the subject. You're taking one stat (WHIP) and taking it out of context with the rest of the stats and the FACT that both Jackson and Ohlindorf are too old for the leagues they are in. Is Nippert great? No. But he pitched better then AA then either of the guys the yankees got and at a younger age and Owings just blows both of them away.

As far as johnson goes. The yankees didn't have to trade him for such a sorry return. You want to use WHIP as the be all end all? Johnson's whip was 1.24 and his k9 was WELL over 3-1 so you calling him a POS is just taking one stat (his ERA) and blowing that out of the proportion. Would i trade him if we could get GOOD PROSPECTS back for him? Sure but these guys arn't good prospects.

The yankees are a worse team today then they were yesterday

Actually, I hate WHIP and think it is a riddiculously over-rated stat but I used it because you had a love affair with it when you were trying to convince me that Mike Gonzalez was terrible because he had a high WHIP. I told you that it was worthless **** but you insisted that it was a vital stat. Me? I look at ERA and BB/K ratio. It shows the ability to pitch with control and not give up a lot of runs. That is what matters in baseball MM.

Well Mike, maybe it's just time for you to realize that GMs who trade what you consider to be "good prospects" for over the hill 43 year olds just don't last very long. Maybe the D' Backs GM just wanted to look like a bad GM as opposed to the worst GM in baseball.

[AFJF]

Thats a HORRIBLE characterization of this argument. They are MARGINAL PROSPECTS thats with their numbers taken into consideration.

Horrible because youre upset at how quickly I showed your tendancy to change your argument as your points are shot down one at a time?

[AFJF]

Okay Mike....another serious question for you.

You're Brian Cashman and you need a player (any player, any position) and a GM from another team calls you up and says...

"Hey Brian, I think we have a guy who can help you. Now, granted he just had back surgery, has a history of knee trouble, is coming off of two of the worst seasons of his career, and he's 43 years old and his salary is around 16 million"

Tell me which Yankee prospects you/Cashman would give up while imagining that the Yankees, like the D' Backs are in the process of re-building.

[madmike1]

Actually, I hate WHIP and think it is a riddiculously over-rated stat but I used it because you had a love affair with it when you were trying to convince me that Mike Gonzalez was terrible because he had a high WHIP. I told you that it was worthless **** but you insisted that it was a vital stat. Me? I look at ERA and BB/K ratio. It shows the ability to pitch with control and not give up a lot of runs. That is what matters in baseball MM.

Well Mike, maybe it's just time for you to realize that GMs who trade what you consider to be "good prospects" for over the hill 43 year olds just don't last very long. Maybe the D' Backs GM just wanted to look like a bad GM as opposed to the worst GM in baseball.

I made many points about why i didn't want Gonzalez but you chose WHIP to concentrate on. I never called him terrible either.

ERA is a product of other stats. bb/K ratio is a stat that is pretty meaningless too. k9 is much more important then bb/k and both these guys have bad k9's.

The yankees would be better off keeping johnson then trading him for the marginal package they got.

[madmike1]

Okay Mike....another serious question for you.

You're Brian Cashman and you need a player (any player, any position) and a GM from another team calls you up and says...

"Hey Brian, I think we have a guy who can help you. Now, granted he just had back surgery, has a history of knee trouble, is coming off of two of the worst seasons of his career, and he's 43 years old and his salary is around 16 million"

Tell me which Yankee prospects you/Cashman would give up while imagining that the Yankees, like the D' Backs are in the process of re-building.

Thats a useless hypothetical because the Dbacks wanted RJ and they showed they wanted him by giving him a contract extension. The yankees didn't have to trade randy unless they got the real deal.

[AFJF]

I made many points about why i didn't want Gonzalez but you chose WHIP to concentrate on. I never called him terrible either.

ERA is a product of other stats. bb/K ratio is a stat that is pretty meaningless too. k9 is much more important then bb/k and both these guys have bad k9's.

The yankees would be better off keeping johnson then trading him for the marginal package they got.

Beacuse they're in dire need of a bloated 5.00+ ERA at the price of 16 million dollars.

[madmike1]

Horrible because youre upset at how quickly I showed your tendancy to change your argument as your points are shot down one at a time?

You couldn't be more wrong. You used WHIP and k/bb to try to prove something but your argument was COMPLETELY flawed because you didn't mention any of the contextual factors that are important.

[AFJF]

Thats a useless hypothetical because the Dbacks wanted RJ and they showed they wanted him by giving him a contract extension. The yankees didn't have to trade randy unless they got the real deal.

please answer the question Mike. Stop running around in circles and changing the subject.

[madmike1]

Beacuse they're in dire need of a bloated 5.00+ ERA at the price of 16 million dollars.

ERA is a product of other stats and Randy's other stats weren't as bad as the ERA would make you think.

[AFJF]

You couldn't be more wrong. You used WHIP and k/bb to try to prove something but your argument was COMPLETELY flawed because you didn't mention any of the contextual factors that are important.

Mike....what would it take to get you to start rooting for the Mets?

[madmike1]

please answer the question Mike. Stop running around in circles and changing the subject.

I'm getting sick and tired of your attackts. Your stupid hypothetical had NOTHING to do with this situation so why should i treat it seriously?

THE DBACKS CAME TO THE YANKEES ASKING FOR JOHNSON

THEY GAVE HIM AN EXTENTION

THE YANKEES DIDN'T HAVE TO TRADE HIM

[AFJF]

I'm getting sick and tired of your attackts. Your stupid hypothetical had NOTHING to do with this situation so why should i treat it seriously?

THE DBACKS CAME TO THE YANKEES ASKING FOR JOHNSON

THEY GAVE HIM AN EXTENTION

THE YANKEES DIDN'T HAVE TO TRADE HIM

Please show me where I "attacked" you. Asking you to settle down and answer a question? That's an attack nowadays.

Also, your caps lock key is stuck. Just press it again and it'll go back to normal.

[AFJF]

I'm getting sick and tired of your attackts. Your stupid hypothetical had NOTHING to do with this situation so why should i treat it seriously?

THE DBACKS CAME TO THE YANKEES ASKING FOR JOHNSON

THEY GAVE HIM AN EXTENTION

THE YANKEES DIDN'T HAVE TO TRADE HIM

Mike, the Yankees are about winning rings. Randy Johnson proved himself to be worthless in the post season. Sorry. Your boy is gone. Brian Cashman and I agree on this one.

[madmike1]

Please show me where I "attacked" you. Asking you to settle down and answer a question? That's an attack nowadays.

Also, your caps lock key is stuck. Just press it again and it'll go back to normal.

You keep saying that i'm changing the subject but you're the one who is talking about things that are completely offtopic.

[madmike1]

Mike, the Yankees are about winning rings. Randy Johnson proved himself to be worthless in the post season. Sorry. Your boy is gone. Brian Cashman and I agree on this one.

How are 2 C+ prospects and an AVG RP gonna help the yankees win a ring? And johnson isn't "my boy" i just wanted a decent return for him.

[AFJF]

You keep saying that i'm changing the subject but you're the one who is talking about things that are completely offtopic.

Only because I'm trying very, very, very, very, very hard to help you understand the position the Yankees were in.

Okay...let's try this again.

If you were any GM in baseball and a team called asking for a 43 year old coming off of surgery/history of injuries/two worst seasons of his career/16 million dollar a year contract/choked in the post season, would you give up one of the best young pitching prospects in baseball to get that player. Any team, any GM. See, I'm not changing the subject, I'm simply trying to get you to think.

[AFJF]

How are 2 C+ prospects and an AVG RP gonna help the yankees win a ring? And johnson isn't "my boy" i just wanted a decent return for him.

Then you were being greedy and unrealistic. Any other logical fan would be thrilled to dump the overpaid POS who choked in the post season. Again, I agree with Cashman on this one as opposed to you.

[AFJF]

How are 2 C+ prospects and an AVG RP gonna help the yankees win a ring? And johnson isn't "my boy" i just wanted a decent return for him.

Have you ever heard the term addition by subtraction Mike? It means making a team better by simply getting rid of a player who is not very good. RJ was not very good last season and there is no reason to expect him to be better with another year marked off on the calendar and fresh off back surgery. Addition by subtraction Mike.

[madmike1]

Only because I'm trying very, very, very, very, very hard to help you understand the position the Yankees were in.

Okay...let's try this again.

If you were any GM in baseball and a team called asking for a 43 year old coming off of surgery/history of injuries/two worst seasons of his career/16 million dollar a year contract/choked in the post season, would you give up one of the best young pitching prospects in baseball to get that player. Any team, any GM. See, I'm not changing the subject, I'm simply trying to get you to think.

Thats not this situation. THIS situation is the yankees have a player who the dbacks are ASKING FOR and want to give an extention to PLUS the yankees don't have to trade him. The yankees should've either gotten a good package or told arizona sorry and kept johnson.

[madmike1]

Then you were being greedy and unrealistic. Any other logical fan would be thrilled to dump the overpaid POS who choked in the post season. Again, I agree with Cashman on this one as opposed to you.

You're using 2 postseason starts to value a guy who made 60+ starts as a yankee. thats extremely foolish.

[madmike1]

Have you ever heard the term addition by subtraction Mike? It means making a team better by simply getting rid of a player who is not very good. RJ was not very good last season and there is no reason to expect him to be better with another year marked off on the calendar and fresh off back surgery. Addition by subtraction Mike.

This isn't addition by subtraction. Johnson could be a fine pitcher for the yankees next year if the surgery works and his upside is much higher then any of the guys they got.

[AFJF]

You're using 2 postseason starts to value a guy who made 60+ starts as a yankee. thats extremely foolish.

Maybe you didn't read every other point I made in this thread Mike.

He's old

He had a 5.00 ERA

He's responsible for more objects in space than NASA

He just had back surgery

He's grossly overpaid at 16 mil per season

and he choked in the post season.

That's what I'm using. Logic. Common sense.

[AFJF]

This isn't addition by subtraction. Johnson could be a fine pitcher for the yankees next year if the surgery works and his upside is much higher then any of the guys they got.

Again, I agree with Brian Cashman....not you.

[madmike1]

Maybe you didn't read every other point I made in this thread Mike.

He's old

He had a 5.00 ERA

He's responsible for more objects in space than NASA

He just had back surgery

He's grossly overpaid at 16 mil per season

and he choked in the post season.

That's what I'm using. Logic. Common sense.

Pitchers pitch well at older ages now days.

His numbers weren't as bad as that ERA and in fact some of his peripherals show that he could improve next year.

Alot of good pitchers give up alot of homers. Meaningless stat.

The surgery could make him better too.

He is overpaid but he's also only signed for one more year.

His post season stats are EXTREMELY small sample sizes and can't be taken to mean anything.

[madmike1]

Again, I agree with Brian Cashman....not you.

I like Chasman as a GM but he's made bad moves in the past and he did again today.. Twice.