A Word on the Pats Draft

[TomShane]

Logan Mankins, OG, Fresno State

Ellis Hobbs, DB, Iowa State

Nick Kaczur, OT, Toledo

James Sanders, DB, Fresno State

Ryan Claridge, LB, UNLV

Matt Cassell, QB, USC

Andy Stokes, TE, William Penn

The word is "pathetic." Don't get me wrong, you can't really 'grade' Belichick's drafts because he molds these guys into players, but even the staunchest Pats fan has to agree that he pissed away all of these picks and didn't even TRY to get top players with the picks. This, my friends, is the sign of an out-of-control arrogance. Also factor in that his two best teachers are now gone. This sh*t may have worked when Crennell and Weis were here to shape these kids, but they're not, and you better hope that their replacements are as good as they were--not even on game day--but in giving these kids the fundamentals that define the Pats style of play. Good luck, I say.

[nj meadowlands]

Matt Cassell.....sweet pick.

[Garb]

You know what I find pathetic, eh Matt? I find the self-absorbed antics - certainly fueled by poor self-esteeem - round here Pathetic. You ought to change this site's name to Cheapimitation.com or Jetsinside.com or something like that......

Kidding - I like some of you, honest.

Truth be told, the last three Pats drafts have been off the charts. The last four years in Pats land have been a dream - and BB/Pioli orchestrated the whole thing. Not for nothing - but this guy has my blind faith and devotion. Plus, I love the fact that he/they stocked up on next years draft who many say will be far superior to this years.

[nj meadowlands]

You know what I find pathetic, eh Matt? I find the self-absorbed antics - certainly fueled by poor self-esteeem - round here Pathetic. You ought to change this site's name to Cheapimitation.com or Jetsinside.com or something like that......

Kidding - I like some of you, honest.

Truth be told, the last three Pats drafts have been off the charts. The last four years in Pats land have been a dream - and BB/Pioli orchestrated the whole thing. Not for nothing - but this guy has my blind faith and devotion. Plus, I love the fact that he/they stocked up on next years draft who many say will be far superior to this years.

Hmm...... I think that's more off topic and stupid sounding than ANYTHING greengal has ever even thought about writing!

honestly, you can't be happy with the patriots draft even if you tried. so don't piss in our kool aid

[TomShane]

Not for nothing - but this guy has my blind faith and devotion.

You, Garb? Never would have suspected.

[Garb]

Hmm...... I think that's more off topic and stupid sounding than ANYTHING greengal has ever even thought about writing!

honestly, you can't be happy with the patriots draft even if you tried. so don't piss in our kool aid

That is because it was a joke intended for Tom Shane - you silly little 15 year old. Please, go do your homework.

I am about as excited about this past draft as I was about the others - not excited. They turned out quite well, however.

Only Jest fans can claim victory after a freakin' draft. Although - I get the feeling this Sebastion Janikowski (ooops - wrong savior ) may not be the difference maker you all think you need.

[RichardSeymour]

Logan Mankins, OG, Fresno State

Ellis Hobbs, DB, Iowa State

Nick Kaczur, OT, Toledo

James Sanders, DB, Fresno State

Ryan Claridge, LB, UNLV

Matt Cassell, QB, USC

Andy Stokes, TE, William Penn

The word is "pathetic." Don't get me wrong, you can't really 'grade' Belichick's drafts because he molds these guys into players, but even the staunchest Pats fan has to agree that he pissed away all of these picks and didn't even TRY to get top players with the picks. This, my friends, is the sign of an out-of-control arrogance. Also factor in that his two best teachers are now gone. This Sh#t may have worked when Crennell and Weis were here to shape these kids, but they're not, and you better hope that their replacements are as good as they were--not even on game day--but in giving these kids the fundamentals that define the Pats style of play. Good luck, I say.

Sigh.

Tom, should I rip you a new one in post form, or should I just send it to you as an article since it's going to be a very sizable bit of script?

Choose your method of destruction....

... and remember, the stay-puft marshmallow man is not an option.

It took some research and understanding to figure out why it went down the way it did, but believe me, at this point this looks like a very good draft.

[Garb]

what....this: :wink: is supposed to give you a free pass, Pizza Face? Eh? How's post graduate HS, dummy???

[TomShane]

80, show some respect, dude. Garb's a hot piece of ass.

And RS, COME ON BRO! WTF is ELLIS HOBBS?!?!?

[Garb]

....yah, I bet you have lot's of "friends" here 80....God, I am so afraid for America's future. A bunch a Social Retards with Carpel Tunnel....

[nj meadowlands]

....yah, I bet you have lot's of "friends" here 80....God, I am so afraid for America's future. A bunch a Social Retards with Carpel Tunnel....

you're just afraid of your social security being stripped

[TomShane]

People, people. Have you ever seen the rage of Matthew Modine ?

[faba]

Everyone needs to read what is in my signature and apply it-Case closed!

[nj meadowlands]

True.

Everyone.

[RichardSeymour]

Alright Mr. Modine.... you asked for it...

but first I'm going to drive home so I can rip your new orifice from the comfort of my own computer and not the dungeon at work.

[Garb]

you're just afraid of your social security being stripped

Now that was pretty darn funny....see, I'll give credit where credit is due. Damn!!!

[bitonti]

Nick Kazcur is HORRIBLE. Logan Mankins was a great pick... if it was 2 rounds later - a guard tackle tweener with a bad back? good luck - a career nickel back in Ellis Hobbs? Claridge a chunky white dude LB to replace ted johnson?

here's the reality of the situation - Bill bellichek could take a crap in a bucket and draft that, announce that the bucket will wear jersey #2 and the press would call him a visionary.

[TomShane]

Nick Kazcur is HORRIBLE. Logan Mankins was a great pick... if it was 2 rounds later - a guard tackle tweener with a bad back? good luck - a career nickel back in Ellis Hobbs? Claridge a chunky white dude LB to replace ted johnson?

here's the reality of the situation - Bill bellichek could take a crap in a bucket and draft that and the press would call him a visionary.

Post of the Day! HAHA!

[elotk]

I dont want to argue about whether the picks were good or had "value", im just tired of Pats fans going "well since BB made the picks then they are amazing".

IBBWT

eLOT

[PatsFanTX]

Logan Mankins, OG, Fresno State

Ellis Hobbs, DB, Iowa State

Nick Kaczur, OT, Toledo

James Sanders, DB, Fresno State

Ryan Claridge, LB, UNLV

Matt Cassell, QB, USC

Andy Stokes, TE, William Penn

The word is "pathetic." Don't get me wrong, you can't really 'grade' Belichick's drafts because he molds these guys into players, but even the staunchest Pats fan has to agree that he pissed away all of these picks and didn't even TRY to get top players with the picks. This, my friends, is the sign of an out-of-control arrogance. Also factor in that his two best teachers are now gone. This Sh#t may have worked when Crennell and Weis were here to shape these kids, but they're not, and you better hope that their replacements are as good as they were--not even on game day--but in giving these kids the fundamentals that define the Pats style of play. Good luck, I say.

Yo Matty boy.

It's not nice to post things just to rile up opposing fans. Pats fans would never think about doing something like that.

BTW, is that 5'1", 105 lbs Steeler fan that you ran away from still after your ass?

[Garb]

I dont want to argue about whether the picks were good or had "value", im just tired of Pats fans going "well since BB made the picks then they are amazing".

IBBWT

eLOT

See, Jets fans have it all wrong. Pats fans will ALWAYS give BB the benefit of the doubt and pronouce his moves as "we beleive they are for the best" because winning three of the last for SB gives you that sort of credibility.

Therefore, no offense Bit, I know you are a draft guru - the next Mel Kiper (shoot - better than Mr. Hair) but until proven otherwise - Pats fans BELIEVE.

[bitonti]

Therefore, no offense Bit, I know you are a draft guru - the next Mel Kiper (shoot - better than Mr. Hair) but until proven otherwise - Pats fans BELIEVE.

no offense taken Garb - the point i was trying to make is you take the PATS draft - and imagine a parallel universe where the JETS somehow draft every single player at the same point in the draft (even though they aren't SB champions, lets say the JETS and the PATS switched picks in this parallel universe) -

the press would be ripping that draft to shreds if the JETS were the ones bringing in those players. Belly will probably turn chicken you know what into chicken salad like he does every time but in terms of pure draft evaluation, forget about the fans, cause that's the job of a fan to believe - it's the press that would unfairly damn that draft if those were JETS players and unfairly praise it if they were PATS players -

[PatsFanTX]

it's the press that would unfairly damn that draft if those were JETS players and unfairly praise it if they were PATS players -

bit, the draft is just one component of building a successful football team.

Name one draft class where they single-handidly won the Super Bowl for their team. You can't.

Who cares what the press says. The draft is so over rated by so many fans. Sure it's a way to instill youthful talent on your team, but it's only one component of successful teams.

Managing the cap, acquiring free agents, signing cut players are just as important as the draft.

Hell, what paid more dividends for the Jets on offense last year:

the 2nd round pick you gave up for McCariens, the 4th round selection of Crothery or the signing of Pete Kendall when he was cut?

See my point?

[Barton]

Patriots drafted a bunch of losers.

[Farm Implement]

Maybe they'd be losers on your team, but highly unlikely they'll be losers for the Pats.

A good read from Usa Today:

Inside Slant

DRAFT REVIEW

[RichardSeymour]

Logan Mankins, OG, Fresno State

Ellis Hobbs, DB, Iowa State

Nick Kaczur, OT, Toledo

James Sanders, DB, Fresno State

Ryan Claridge, LB, UNLV

Matt Cassell, QB, USC

Andy Stokes, TE, William Penn

The word is "pathetic." Don't get me wrong, you can't really 'grade' Belichick's drafts because he molds these guys into players, but even the staunchest Pats fan has to agree that he pissed away all of these picks and didn't even TRY to get top players with the picks. This, my friends, is the sign of an out-of-control arrogance. Also factor in that his two best teachers are now gone. This Sh#t may have worked when Crennell and Weis were here to shape these kids, but they're not, and you better hope that their replacements are as good as they were--not even on game day--but in giving these kids the fundamentals that define the Pats style of play. Good luck, I say.

OK, lets go to war.

First off I'd like to correct the confused Tom Shane's draft list.

Logan Mankins, OG, Fresno State

Ellis Hobbs, DB, Iowa State

Nick Kaczur, OT, Toledo

James Sanders, DB, Fresno State

Ryan Claridge, LB, UNLV

Matt Cassell, QB, USC

Andy Stokes, TE, William Penn

---

veteran CB Duane Starks

'06 3rd (Baltimore's)

'06 4th (Oakland's)

'06 5th (Detroit's)

There. That's the complete draft.

Now, point by point....

1) LT Logan Mankins--- I love the way things work. A guy gets projected at guard, he's a guard. That's it. Nevermind that other than at the senior bowl and one brief stint at RT, Mankins played LT throughout college and did so extremely well. Why is he projected as a guard? Because he's "short" and "light".

Matt Light 6'4 305 lbs

Logan Mankins 6'4 307 lbs

The Pats like light, athletic linemen. I don't expect Mankins to displace Light at LT any time soon, and he may well be a guard for a few years (though RT is also a possibility). The point is that for the Patriots he can play LT if need be. Mankins is, conservatively, slotted to be our starting OG and our backup swing tackle.

So what?

So where else was a rookie going to start for us? Not many places, and the pickings were slim.

This may come as a shock to many of you but Mankins was a projected mid to highish 2nd rounder by many. The Pats "reached" for him like they reached for Watson and Warren. Belichick has never been afraid to take his guy. Mankins is ideally suited for the Patriots system: he is tough, hard working, technically sound, and his head is screwed on straight.

This is a guy called by one drafting service (and not a fly by night one) "the most technically sound lineman" in college football. This last season Mankins set a school record with 82 knockdown blocks and didn't allow a single sack. There's a highlight clip of him holding off a blocker, then knocking him down, running forward and knocking him down again as he tries to get up, then running at him and shoving him again even as the whistle is being blown. That's not a fluke. That's who this guy is.

I don't see the disaster in adding a guy like that to our OL--- an athletic, accomplished blue-chipper who can play multiple positions and whose work ethic, drive, and effort are all impeccable.

Or maybe I just fail to see the sure-thing that was sitting there at #32 and would have been a much better choice for the Patriots.

2) Ellis Hobbs--- Terry Bradway liked him. That's a good reason to doubt him, but also a reason you might want to go easy on tearing into the guy. Bradway says there were 4 CBs he really liked available at 47, Hobbs, Bartell, the Green Bay kid, and Miller. Miller goes at 46 and Hobbs might well be in a Jets uni right now.

Never mind for a minute that the Patriots also got a future 3rd rounder and a 7th that they used to help them get a future 5th when they traded down from 64 and snagged this kid. The only people holding Hobbs in low esteem are ignorant Jets fans who don't know the kids name because he lacked the requisite sex appeal.

The Patriots take Brandon Browner at 84--- the undrafted Brandon Browner--- and you guys are oohing and ahing because he's tall, and because he looks like he could be a #1 cornerback. Hobbs looks like Antoine Winfield, not Champ Bailey, and so you guys criticize him.

This is a kid who was ranked by Gil Brandt as the #1 kick coverage STer in the entire draft.

Here's an interview with his college secondary coach.

Question: How would you describe him as a player?

Answer: "He

[BaumerJet]

People, people. Have you ever seen the rage of Matthew Modine ?

Yeah, haven't any of you seen "VISION QUEST?"

Now be careful 80, he might mistake you for Shoop!

Don't worry Tom, I've got your back bro...

[RichardSeymour]

I don't see people trashing the Sanders pick, and trashing 7th rounders is comical, so I'm going to ignore that for now.

Lemme just put in a word for my boy Claridge.

I corresponded with a reporter who covers UNLV football, he had this to say....

When asked if Ryan Claridge is "the truth" ..

If he can stay healthy he will be. No-nonsense guy who lives to play the game and works his butt off. Got overshadowed by Seward who was a P.R. hound who was more interested in his stats. I really thought Claridge would go first in the third round. He's a perfect fit for the Pats and Belichick. Robinson predicted a year ago he thought a team like New England would draft him because he fits their system so well. I know Belichick talked with him about Ryan just like he did before he took Willie McGinest. The guy led the MWC in sacks despite missing a game and playing two others with basically one arm.

and when a guy is described as a "no-nonsense guy who lives to play the game and works his butt off".... you know he's the Patriots kind of player. Particularly when he's a big LB who can rush the passer.

As to why Claridge went so late when his resume is so impressive and he's a high character/motor guy....probably injuries played a prominent role, since he missed an entire year in '02 with a sports hernia, and had ligament damage in his shoulder at the end of this year.

I asked whether Claridge might be too top heavy, and the reporter suggested perhaps a bit, though it's not like he has weak legs.

Claridge is huge (6'2, 259 lbs), has extensive experience at 3-4 ILB and 4-3 MLB, and is good at rushing the passer. He's got good lateral movement, impeccable intangibles and attitude, and is generally described as being pretty capable in pass coverage as well.

The two big knocks on him are his injury history (nothing that seems to foreshadow future problems specifically, but between the hernia and his shoulder you do wonder if he's injury prone), and his strength.

The reporter actually sent me a huge pic of Claridge running in shorts at his pro day. The kid is ginormous, but you can see some baby fat and it looks like he could use some work on his calves.

I'd put it up here, but I just have the pic itself, I don't have any place to link to. No doubt TS will pester me for it to add to his collection of homoerotic photography. Perhaps he'll be kind enough to post it here when he does, because it really gives you a good idea of just how BIG this kid is.... and then when you remember that he has good lateral agility, decent speed, and was a sack artist AND sound in coverage in college, you start to get really intrigued...

I am 100% convinced that if Claridge stays healthy, after a full offseason in the Patriots strength and conditioning program he will be a fine rotational guy/depth guy, and I believe potentially quite a bit more than that.

How you can knock him as a 5th round pick is beyond me.

[RichardSeymour]

Broadly speaking...

Bill Belichick said publicaly before the draft and after that he didn't think this was a very good draft. Didn't think the talent was great overall.

When you're picking last in each round in a weak draft, it's tough to do well.

I think adding a starting, flexible, nasty OG/OT, an elite STer and quality nickelback (for now) at the end of the 2nd, a well-regarded OG/OT late in the 3rd round, a quality safety in the 4th, and a very impressive and intriguing 260 lb ILB with athleticism and experience in the 3-4 in the 5th round isn't bad.

When you consider that the Patriots also loaded up the clip for next years draft by acquiring a 3rd, a 4th, and a 5th in what most believe will be a MUCH stronger draft.... and you throw in a solid veteran CB acquired by pick as a bonus...

I think it's a pretty good job. Remember, this team doesn't have a lot of holes. There aren't a lot of places for rookies to stick or make contributions.

Rather than take chances or gamble on flawed prospects, Belichick played it safe. He addressed many of the Patriots biggest needs (and our biggest needs are pretty small). EVERY ONE of his first five picks seems to be straight from the mold of the Patriots draftbook---- Smart, tough, hard working, loves football, unselfish.

Well OK, Kaczur was a Recreation & Leisure Studies major. And he's Candadian. So he's not that smart.

Other than that though they're all cut from the right cloth for this team. On a team that isn't looking for immediate starters in the 3rd round, we didn't sweat it. We took guys who CAN have an impact now, in limited roles.... and who also project well in our system.

It would be a terrible draft for the Jets because these aren't the right PLAYERS for the Jets. Likewise the Jets draft would be a terrible one for the Patriots.

The Patriots did a very good job in a weak draft of getting the right players for THEIR team, not for Joe Mocker's draftboard.

[LionelRichie]

no offense taken Garb - the point i was trying to make is you take the PATS draft - and imagine a parallel universe where the JETS somehow draft every single player at the same point in the draft (even though they aren't SB champions, lets say the JETS and the PATS switched picks in this parallel universe) -

the press would be ripping that draft to shreds if the JETS were the ones bringing in those players. Belly will probably turn chicken you know what into chicken salad like he does every time but in terms of pure draft evaluation, forget about the fans, cause that's the job of a fan to believe - it's the press that would unfairly damn that draft if those were JETS players and unfairly praise it if they were PATS players -

this couldn't be anymore accurate. BB and the pats have had a great run, but all of a sudden BB's sh!t don't stink.

this great run was a nice combination of skill, luck, and timing.

[RichardSeymour]

this couldn't be anymore accurate. BB and the pats have had a great run, but all of a sudden BB's sh!t don't stink.

this great run was a nice combination of skill, luck, and timing.

No, that would be the '68 Jets.

When you win 3 superbowls in 4 years, it's a combination of skill, big game play, and dominance.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

People, people. Have you ever seen the rage of Matthew Modine ?

I have....it's ugly.

[TomShane]

Does anyone know if RichardSeymour ever responded to my inquiry about the Pats draft? All I saw was some dude screaming about adding 'quality' players and 'depth' without addressing the fact that Hobbs isn't even listed in many draft guides and Logan Mankins can't be seen in any draft guide picked higher than the bottom of round two? And what about filling holes? Some dude said that the Pats had no real holes to fill, except for MLB and RCB (unless career washout Duane Starks is better than nothing, I guess). So let me know when RS gets back in, K?

[YJF]

Nick Kazcur is HORRIBLE. Logan Mankins was a great pick... if it was 2 rounds later - a guard tackle tweener with a bad back? good luck - a career nickel back in Ellis Hobbs? Claridge a chunky white dude LB to replace ted johnson?

here's the reality of the situation - Bill bellichek could take a crap in a bucket and draft that, announce that the bucket will wear jersey #2 and the press would call him a visionary.

This is a funny post.

Let's face it if The Jets had drafted Matt Cassel. a backup QB in college. I'd have to sit through a ton of Herm and Bradway are idiots posts. I'd have to read "Your front office is so horrible, They don't even draft starting college QB's"

But since The Pats drafted a backup college QB. They get the benefit of the doubt because of their superior track record.

Jets take Cassel. We are blithering idiots.

Pats take Cassel. They found a diamond in the rough and outsmarted everybody.

Yes, I know RS. Brad Johnson was a backup QB in college and he turned out OK.. I know..I know.

I like Logan Mankins (Not where he was drafted) and I like James Sanders (special teams ability).

But the rest of the draft picks are not too impressive. They may turn out OK and The Pats have earned the faith of their fan base and the critics. But on paper, That was a weak draft. Might turn out to be better than people think. Time will tell.

[bitonti]

Hell, what paid more dividends for the Jets on offense last year:

the 2nd round pick you gave up for McCariens, the 4th round selection of Crothery or the signing of Pete Kendall when he was cut?

See my point?

to an extent but super bowls are built during the draft -

it could be argued that the acquistion last year of Vilma @ 12 overall was more significant than all of those moves.

it could be further argued that the trade up for DRob a year previous enabled the success of Vilma -

don't get me wrong Logan Mankins is a good player. this is my own personal writeup

A great Senior Bowl week for Mr. Mankins has solidified him as a solid first day prospect. Uses his hips very well for a big man, can create holes not only using strength and power but agility and leverage. Good hand attack, excellent lateral quickness and aggressiveness are highlights for this all-american caliber guard/tackle, who expresses both in quantities that should make him a fixture in the league.

im not lying, i'd have been content if the JETS took him at 47. That being said the needs of this team are slated more toward the picks they made -

yes being the Super Bowl Champ gets any team the benefit of the doubt from hacks in the media -

hopefully JETS fans can find that out first hand very soon.