More whistling past the graveyard

[johnny green balls]

you don't deserve to be a HC in this league if you can't manage the clock. high school coaches have been fired for this. this is proof alone that he was an unqualified tagliabue sweetheart candidate that had no business in headphones.

[afosomf]

you don't deserve to be a HC in this league if you can't manage the clock. high school coaches have been fired for this. this is proof alone that he was an unqualified tagliabue sweetheart candidate that had no business in headphones.

I nominate Nyjunc for a new Award

Turd of the Week!!!!!!!!!

[Lurker]

that man's incompitance should be commemorated. Not made fun of.

How many other men with IQ's comparable to some of the slower veggies in the garden get to be a head coach of an NFL team?

Art Shell?

First and foremost, it's fun. Herman Edwards is a source of amusement for many people. I enjoy it when Sperm or Bugg or Green Balls or SJ et al post an article or a comment about Herm, and I know they get a kick out of it when I post one, as well. Herm is our 'Page 6'. Some people like to follow the daily adventures of Paris Hilton, for us it's Hermy. I don't read page 6 in the daily news, I go right past it. But it doesn't bother me that its there.

6 pages in this thread. Coincidence? I think not.

[johnny green balls]

I nominate Nyjunc for a new Award

Turd of the Week!!!!!!!!!

a huge unflushable turd. the "winner" has to put this in his sig for the week:

[drago]

OK, this is why people get pissed at you. Allow me to retort to your answers because they will show how much of a shill for this guy you are and how your "truth" is not exactly accurate...

1. Herm had them playing better then the prior two seasons? That is simply false. Look beyond the superficial w/l record. The 1999 team lost its starting QB in game 1 and Tuna screwed up wiht no replacement until he put in LUcas and that team went 8-8, 7-2 down the stretch and was playjg GREAT football. had he inserted Lucas sooner (rather thenplaying a piece of dung like Mirer), they probably go 10-6 or better. Also in 1999, they played exactly 3 teams that landed up sub 500. In 2000, they started 6-1, ended 9-7, played only 3 sub 500 teams (beating all 3) AND played whopping 8 games against teams that finsihed wiht 10 or more wins...going 4 and 4 in those games. Yes, they folded the last 3 weeks but they also played Oakland and eventual SB champ Balt in two of them. Now 2001...they played a whopping 8 games against sub 500 teams wiht 6 of their 10 wins coming in those games and actually losing 4 to those teams. Of those 6 wins, 3 were by 1 point and one was a gift from NO when Kyle Turley lost his mind as NO was going in for the tying score. Of the 8 games against "better teams, they beat Miami twice, NE once and Oak on Halls 53 yarder. In 2001 aside from a 4 game win streak (3 v terrible teams) they never won more then 2 in a row, got embarrassed by Buf at home in a playoff clincher, and were ossibly the worst run D team all year. To say Herm had the 2001 team playing better then the 1999 or 2000 is total BS and a blanket statement by you that has no factual backup to it.

2 and 3. I'll combine these because the answer is simple...HE WAS THE HC!!!! How is he a good HC in your eyes when he totally relied n his coordinators because he was not competent enough to do anything himself? Howveer, HE dictated the overall "play not to lose" strategy of the O and (even as a supposed defensive coach) could do NOTHING to help a D that was lousy v the run almost every year. HE is the HC...THAT'S why he gets blamed. When the D struggled this year, mangini straegized to fix it...Herm NEVER did that, he just blamed personel, tossed DCs under the bus, and tunred the roster over 3 times.

4. Uh OK, lets start with 2001 where they look embarassing on opening day v INdy, got smoked by STL, squeeked out 1 pt wins v terrible Carolina, Cincy and Indy teams, lost at hme to a 2 win BUf team in a playoff clinching game. Lets ee, in 2002 we started out 2-5, lost to a 3 win Bear team late in the year in a playoff clinching game and looked totally lost v oak in the playoffs. 2003? How about the first 4 weeks when we essenatially gave up and Vinny wasnt allowed to throw a pass longer then 5 yards? 2004? Even during the 5-0 start (of whihc 4 were v cupcakes), we looked awful v SF (I was there), and eeked past Buffalo. We also got our asses handed to us in weeks 15 and 16 when we had playoff spots on the line. 2005...yeah we looked really prpepared v KC. I mena please, if you think the herm Jets were a well prepared, ready to play unit you didnt watch the Jets.

5. Bullsh*t. His clock management was ajoke from beginning to end and the ONLY reason it LOOKED like it got better was because the moron actually had to hire a COACH to help him wiht clock management. That was an embarassment.

6. Waltons inheritted a young team that was 30 minutes form the SB? They didnt have any turnover? Are you JOKING? You clearly have NO idea about the past of this team then considering the team Walton took to the playoffs in 1985 and 1986 had new startes at QB, WR, FB, LG, RT, LT, OLB, CB, and both S spots and had a totally different defensive scheme. But why let facts get in your way right? And the FA issues cuts both ways. No, he did lose guys, but he also couldnt GET guys either like Herm did every tijme he changed the roster over. Walton took over a team that went ot the AFC title game in 1982 and three years later he took them back to the playoof after revamping the roster. Herm took over a team that went to the AFC title game three years earlier and was essentially the SAME team!!!!

7. Yeah, all coahces are liars. But not all coahces stood their and preached how honest they were and hw much intergity they had...and THEN llied and showed no integrity.as he skipped out of town.

So, as you can see, YOU are the one tossing out the misinformation...whihc is what Hermy Lovers usually do. They toss out balnket sttements and try to pass them off as fact. They indirectly use the race card, they toss out meaningless and under analyzed stats. The guy was ableow average HC at best who had a penchant for plaing the media in order to make him look competent (see the hwole you poay to win the game BS and its original context), he tossed players and coahces under the bus to save hs own ass, herode vetreans (just as hes ding in KC) untl they dropped, and then, when it became apparant he couldnt hide his incompetence any lnger...he bolted.

And THIS is the guy you are on some assinine crusade to defend...nice judge of character you must be.

I think that is a rather harsh analysis to a reasonable argument. To say Herm had the same team in 02 as he three years earlier is an overstatement. Mo Lewis, and Jones were on the decline, new QB, an older C-Mart, Abraham, and Ellis. It was a lot of new players, and a lot of the same players.

I'm not an advicate of Herm's but in 02 I thought he did a good job with a good team. When we did lose to the Raiders, they were the better team. IMO

[MSGold12]

I think that is a rather harsh analysis to a reasonable argument. To say Herm had the same team in 02 as he three years earlier is an overstatement. Mo Lewis, and Jones were on the decline, new QB, an older C-Mart, Abraham, and Ellis. It was a lot of new players, and a lot of the same players.

I'm not an advicate of Herm's but in 02 I thought he did a good job with a good team. When we did lose to the Raiders, they were the better team. IMO

First off, it was 2001 I was referring to, not 2002. The Hermy Lover stated that Herm may have had the same team Groh and Tuna did but they played bnetter for Herm in 2001 then they did in 2000 or 1999. That was a false statemtn and I proved it as such.

Secondly, and on that same subject, when you factor in that Herm had 4 #1 picks AND Lav Coles who all had a year under their belts, Vinny two years removed from achilles surgery, a healthy Martin (he played hurt most of 2000), the addition of Moss and Jordan to the team AND that most of the core from 1998-2000 was still young and productive (Mawae, Fabini, Fergy, Glenn, Farrior, Lewis, JOnes, Thomas, Coleman, Green) an arguement can be made that he had a BETTER talented team then Groh did in 2000. Herm did NOT have a new QB when he took over in 2001, his RB was in his prime and HEALTIER then the year before, and unlike Groh did not have 4 ROOKIE #1s...Herm had them with a years experience.

Finally, if you want to argue 2002, thats fine too. He all but dismissed Chad in TC saying he had no chance to take the job from Vinny, The team then started 2-5 and looked AWFUL and ONLY made a run because Chad was inserted AFTER Vinny got hurt and had the season of his life! We blew a VERY crucial game to a terrible Chi team in week 15 that would have clinched a playoff spot for us and then had to rely on two (not one, two) Miami collapses in the last two weeks to even have the CHANCE to make the playoffs. I give him and the team credit for the GB win and the INdyblowout but better team or not, Oakland made us look foolish in the second half of that game and Herm did NOTHING to adjust...because he couldnt.

I think my argeemtn is dead on balls accuarte and not harsh at all. Herm had a MUCH better team then alost ANY first time HC could possibly hope to inherit.

[nyjunc]

1. Herm had them playing better then the prior two seasons? That is simply false. Look beyond the superficial w/l record. The 1999 team lost its starting QB in game 1 and Tuna screwed up wiht no replacement until he put in LUcas and that team went 8-8, 7-2 down the stretch and was playjg GREAT football. had he inserted Lucas sooner (rather thenplaying a piece of dung like Mirer), they probably go 10-6 or better. Also in 1999, they played exactly 3 teams that landed up sub 500.

The last 4 wins were windonw dressing to get them to 8-8. They had a chance to beat the Colts when they were 4-6 and faild, they ahd a chance to beat a bad Giants team and they got embarrassed, the playoffs were now out of reach and they won 4 straight against 3 teams that were playing awful football. They beat Miami twice, Miami lost 5 of 6 games to end the year then would lose 62-7 in the playoffs. They beat Dallas, Dallas lost 3 of 5 finished 8-8 and were crushed in the WC rd. They also beat Seattle, Seattle also lost 5 of 6 to end the year and lost to the struggling dolphins at home in the WC rd.

In 2000, they started 6-1, ended 9-7, played only 3 sub 500 teams (beating all 3) AND played whopping 8 games against teams that finsihed wiht 10 or more wins...going 4 and 4 in those games. Yes, they folded the last 3 weeks but they also played Oakland and eventual SB champ Balt in two of them.

They startd 6-1 and needed 4 miracle wins to get to that deceiving record. They were down 19-7 to NE w/ about 2 mins left and won, they needed a hail mary and a KR TD to beat Buffalo, they were down 17-6 w/ under 2 mins at Tampa and won and down 30-7 in the 4th qtr to Miami. Those wins were fools gold and when the comeback magic wore off the team folded losing 6 of their last 9 games.

Now 2001...they played a whopping 8 games against sub 500 teams wiht 6 of their 10 wins coming in those games and actually losing 4 to those teams. Of those 6 wins, 3 were by 1 point and one was a gift from NO when Kyle Turley lost his mind as NO was going in for the tying score.

They finished 7-3 in the last 10 games and the beaqt eventual Champ NE, they swpt playoff team Miami, they beat NO who was playing well at the time(and if we didn't gte a poor spot on the last series we would have run out the clock and beaten No w/ Turley), we beat oak at oak for the first time since we were the Titans and Oak waas playing for a 1st rd bye which probably cost them a SB trip as they lost in the snow at NE.

To say Herm had the 2001 team playing better then the 1999 or 2000 is total BS and a blanket statement by you that has no factual backup to it.

No it's not especially when he was implementing new systems and working in some younger players as the core got old quickly around them.

2 and 3. I'll combine these because the answer is simple...HE WAS THE HC!!!! How is he a good HC in your eyes when he totally relied n his coordinators because he was not competent enough to do anything himself? Howveer, HE dictated the overall "play not to lose" strategy of the O and (even as a supposed defensive coach) could do NOTHING to help a D that was lousy v the run almost every year. HE is the HC...THAT'S why he gets blamed. When the D struggled this year, mangini straegized to fix it...Herm NEVER did that, he just blamed personel, tossed DCs under the bus, and tunred the roster over 3 times.

So you agree the players and coordinators get all the credit when they play wella nd Herm takes all the blame when they play poorly?

Uh OK, lets start with 2001 where they look embarassing on opening day v INdy

that was their 1st game against a top team and the score was deceiving. we were down 38-24 and were going in for a TD to cut it to 7 when we fumbled at the Indy GL and they returned it for a TD.

got smoked by STL, squeeked out 1 pt wins v terrible Carolina, Cincy and Indy teams,

SL was pretty good that year, they lost 3 games in the reg season. they made alot of teams look bad. Squeeking out a 1 pt win at carolina was that like squeaking out a 7 pt win over 3 win Det at home this year? or a 3 pt win over Miami? A win is a win. We never played well at Indy(even our '98 team lost at a 3-13 Indy) so any win at Indy is impressive especially when manning and harrison were still playing.

lost at hme to a 2 win BUf team in a playoff clinching game.

as it turns out we would have clinched but I don't think that was a win and in game going itno the day. In 1997 we lost at home to a 3 win colt team and a 6 win Bills team and we missed the postseason by agme, in '98 we lost to a 6 win bal team, a 4 win SL team and a 3 win Indy team and if we won 2 of those we host the Championship game instead of playing at Denver. in '99 we lost to a bad Giants team in Dec that cost us a playoff spot. in '00 it was detroit at home. The difference btw '97, '99 and '00 is that under Herm we bounced back after bad losses.

Lets ee, in 2002 we started out 2-5, lost to a 3 win Bear team late in the year in a playoff clinching game and looked totally lost v oak in the playoffs.

We had alot of injuries early on, Curits was hurt in week1 and had less than 100 yds total after 4 gams, 4/5 of the OL was playing hurt or out, we had 6 new starters on defense. As the team got healthy and the D came together we started to win and at a good oak team we were tied 10-10 late in the 3rd. if that was looking lost then I gusss the NE playoff game this year we looked even more lost?

2003? How about the first 4 weeks when we essenatially gave up and Vinny wasnt allowed to throw a pass longer then 5 yards?

2003 was a wasted year, we lost alot in FA(thanks to the cap problems left to us by BP) and we had major injuries. They fought back and beat some good teams downb the stretch.

2004? Even during the 5-0 start (of whihc 4 were v cupcakes), we looked awful v SF (I was there), and eeked past Buffalo.

SD was 12-4, buf was 9-7- how were 4 of the 5 cupcakes? The bottom line is we won. We had a chance to go 5-0 in 2000 playing a 1-3 Pitt team at home and we lost. in '99 we lost 3 games to teams w/ a combined 13 wins.

We also got our asses handed to us in weeks 15 and 16 when we had playoff spots on the line.

we lost in OT at SL, we got our asses handed to us? we then went on the road and beat 12-4 SD and were a makeable kick away from the AFC Title Game.

2005...yeah we looked really prpepared v KC. I mena please, if you think the herm Jets were a well prepared, ready to play unit you didnt watch the Jets.

They got beat up at KC, it happens. NE lost 31-0 at Buf in the '03 opener. heck in Jets history we were crushed 31-0 in week 1 in '81 and made the playoffs, crushed 31-0 in week 1 in '85 and made playoffs, started 0-2 in '98 and made the tile game, were crushed in week 1 of '01 and made the playoffs.

5. Bullsh*t. His clock management was ajoke from beginning to end and the ONLY reason it LOOKED like it got better was because the moron actually had to hire a COACH to help him wiht clock management. That was an embarassment.

it was overblown b/c of early struggles. his clock mgmt never cost su a big game but in the last couple of weeks Seattle lost a game b/c of poor clock mgmt, SD did, NE did, chi tried but none of those coaches were grilled.

6. Waltons inheritted a young team that was 30 minutes form the SB? They didnt have any turnover? Are you JOKING? You clearly have NO idea about the past of this team then considering the team Walton took to the playoffs in 1985 and 1986

It's not about '85 and '86, in '83 he inherited a team 30 mins from the SB in '82. We were a young, talented team and it took him 3 years to make the postseason and went out in the WC rd at home in '85 and collapsed in '86. 2 POs in 7 years is very different from 3 POs in 5 years.

Walton took over a team that went ot the AFC title game in 1982 and three years later he took them back to the playoof after revamping the roster. Herm took over a team that went to the AFC title game three years earlier and was essentially the SAME team!!!!

completely incorrect. in '01 we had Vinny at QB, young at RT, Jenkins at G, thomas at G, Chrebet as our #1 WR, burton, Green, Glenn, Coleman, Farrior, Steve Martin and that team was overhauled after '01 and he took us back w/ Chad at QB, Coles as our #1 WR, Moss as a contributor, Mckenzie at RT, Machado at G until Szott came back in Dec, Cowart in place of Farrior, Donnie Abe, garnes, Beasley, Ferguson. THEN in 2004 we were revamped again as McCareins replaced Chrebet, Kendall, Moore, Moss was a starting WR, Barton came over, Vilma, erik Coleman, mark brown became a contributor, Robertson, Tongue, Bryan Thomas started to contribute, hobson became a starter.

We basically made 3 playoffs w/ 3 different teams under Herm.

7. Yeah, all coahces are liars. But not all coahces stood their and preached how honest they were and hw much intergity they had...and THEN llied and showed no integrity.as he skipped out of town.

Like Saban, Parcells, Belichick, holmgren, Vermeil,...

So, as you can see, YOU are the one tossing out the misinformation...whihc is what Hermy Lovers usually do. They toss out balnket sttements and try to pass them off as fact. They indirectly use the race card, they toss out meaningless and under analyzed stats. The guy was ableow average HC at best who had a penchant for plaing the media in order to make him look competent (see the hwole you poay to win the game BS and its original context), he tossed players and coahces under the bus to save hs own ass, herode vetreans (just as hes ding in KC) untl they dropped, and then, when it became apparant he couldnt hide his incompetence any lnger...he bolted.

as usual you bring nothing and I destroyed yout pathetic argument.

I think due to nyjunk's lack of facts, he must be just a shill for herm due to rooting for the underdog. herm gets a lot of this since he is 1st Caucasian/African-American NFL HC.

lack of facts? My posts vare all facts. This debate is a joke, I have proven over and over again Herm did a good job but since you hate herm for some reason(you bring up race alot) you always try to belittle my well detailed argument.

First off, it was 2001 I was referring to, not 2002. The Hermy Lover stated that Herm may have had the same team Groh and Tuna did but they played bnetter for Herm in 2001 then they did in 2000 or 1999. That was a false statemtn and I proved it as such.

You THINK you did, in reality I showed you that you were wrong AGAIN.

Secondly, and on that same subject, when you factor in that Herm had 4 #1 picks AND Lav Coles who all had a year under their belts

Everyone wants Chad out of here, Abe was always hurt, people have been whining about Ellis for years and Becht is universally hated. Herm and Tb did not make those picks and Coles barely played in 2000. I love how Cotchery's credit goes to mangini when he played last year and struggled but when Coles struggled in '00 w/ groh then began to take off in '01 w/ Herm it was b/c BP and Groh left him for Herm. You guys are funny.

Herm did NOT have a new QB when he took over in 2001, his RB was in his prime and HEALTIER then the year before, and unlike Groh did not have 4 ROOKIE #1s...Herm had them with a years experience.

He inherited a QB who threw TWENTY FIVE INTERCEPTIONS the year before and we were changing systems. Curtis was past his prime, He was almost 30 when Herm took over. He still had some excellent years left but his prime years were over.

Finally, if you want to argue 2002, thats fine too. He all but dismissed Chad in TC saying he had no chance to take the job from Vinny,

He didn't dismiss Chad, he motivated Chad. he said he was thinking too much and not just playing. A theory alos brought up by Brian Schottenheimer this year.

[We blew a VERY crucial game to a terrible Chi team in week 15 that would have clinched a playoff spot for us /QUOTE]

we would not ahve clinched a playofff spot. why do you keep making stuff up? If we beat chi then beat NE and GB you know who we would have played in the playoffs? INDY. If we win that Chi game we go 10-6, Pitt was the 3 seed and was 10-5-1 so we would have remianed the 4 seed.

[Bugg]

"it was overblown b/c of early struggles. his clock mgmt never cost su a big game but in the last couple of weeks Seattle lost a game b/c of poor clock mgmt, SD did, NE did, chi tried but none of those coaches were grilled. "

NONSENSE.

Bills, Jints and Ravens off the top of my head. We could go on. He habitually wastes timeouts.Those short practices players love so much in August obviously didn't include any hurry up drills.He didn't have a shotgun formation for years, and when he finally put it in and some snaps were mishandled. he acted like it was the fans' fault for questioning him about it. As if the shotgun is so dangerous that it cannot be run. Meanwhile, 31 other NFL teams and hundreds of college and high school teams practice it and have no problems.

Heck, look at his 2-minute drills at the end of the Chiefs/COlts halves. At the end of the 1st half, coculdn't make up his mind if he wanted to run the clock out or throw.That's a decision a real coach like Mangini has made before his offense goes out on the field. His mismanagement alllowed the Colts enough time to score again. With 7 minutes left at the end, the CHiefs were down 2 TDs-and still huddling up and running the ball. That's the kind of moronic clock management we saw year after year. the Jets didn't have a no huddle because Edwards never trusted any QB or offense enough to give them control. And that's with either a 15-year vet in Tetstaverde and a bright, coach's son in Pennington. And he didn't trust a Pro Bowler like Trent Green either. And that sends a message-don't eff up, or else. It's no way to run an offense.Offense has a great deal to do with players' confidence, and QB's especially. Edwards' approach is "glass half full" and it shows. If you walk around all day with fear of failure rather than confidence, you know the result.

Ask Quincy Carter. And for all the "nice guy" press Edwards gets, how that doesn't haunt a coach and his career amazes me. Here's a guy who, despite his failings as a person, was having some success with the Jets. And when one thing went wrong, a thing that was the Edwards' fault rather than Carter's, Edwards didn't have a 2nd thought about underbussing this fragile guy. Now, Carter has made some awful choices since, and he should be responsible from them. But cannot help but think Edwards' actions may have played a very large role in pushing this guy down that road. And seeing what a lying dishonest cowardly bastard Edwards is, I have no doubt he doesn't give Quincy Carter a 2nd thought or a prayer. And that is much worse than anything else you could say about Edwards.

NYJUNC-you've been mostly a good poster here, not like lia/rajensen.

You're wrong and very wrong. But rather than write these treatises defending that lying low-rent douchebag, let's drop it.

If you want to keep going, however, we'll have no choice but to keep it going.

[mangenious420]

Herm Edwards sucks.

[nyjunc]

Bills, Jints and Ravens off the top of my head.

I don't know what the problem was in the giants game, that wasn't a clokc mgmt problem it was a communication problem.

The Bills game was a bad play call.

The Bal game was Quincy wasting a TO. We almost played that perfectly where Bal wouldn't have any time to come back but Quincy wasted our last TO and we ahd no choice but to kick it and tie the game. The biggest problem of that game was the LJ pass, he never should have allowed that to happen.

He didn't have a shotgun formation for years, and when he finally put it in and some snaps were mishandled.

I think that had alot to do w/ Mawae, we didn't run a shotgun for years. I think we used it w/ Lucas but it was w/ O'Donnell and Foley beforee that.

Heck, look at his 2-minute drills at the end of the Chiefs/COlts halves. At the end of the 1st half, coculdn't make up his mind if he wanted to run the clock out or throw.That's a decision a real coach like Mangini has made before his offense goes out on the field. His mismanagement alllowed the Colts enough time to score again. With 7 minutes left at the end, the CHiefs were down 2 TDs-and still huddling up and running the ball. That's the kind of moronic clock management we saw year after year. the Jets didn't have a no huddle because Edwards never trusted any QB or offense enough to give them control. And that's with either a 15-year vet in Tetstaverde and a bright, coach's son in Pennington. And he didn't trust a Pro Bowler like Trent Green either. And that sends a message-don't eff up, or else. It's no way to run an offense.Offense has a great deal to do with players' confidence, and QB's especially. Edwards' approach is "glass half full" and it shows. If you walk around all day with fear of failure rather than confidence, you know the result.

It never cost us in a big game and the one time he tried to run clock down so Pitt wouldn't have a chance our K blew it.

Ask Quincy Carter. And for all the "nice guy" press Edwards gets, how that doesn't haunt a coach and his career amazes me. Here's a guy who, despite his failings as a person, was having some success with the Jets. And when one thing went wrong, a thing that was the Edwards' fault rather than Carter's, Edwards didn't have a 2nd thought about underbussing this fragile guy.

Quincy wasted our last TO.

Now, Carter has made some awful choices since, and he should be responsible from them. But cannot help but think Edwards' actions may have played a very large role in pushing this guy down that road. And seeing what a lying dishonest cowardly bastard Edwards is, I have no doubt he doesn't give Quincy Carter a 2nd thought or a prayer. And that is much worse than anything else you could say about Edwards.

quincy wouldn't have been back in the NFl if not for Herm. brooks showed more than Quincy did in that Arizona game and he went right back to Quincy after Quincy was ok. (I never said I didn't question moves of his)

NYJUNC-you've been mostly a good poster here, not like lia/rajensen.

You're wrong and very wrong. But rather than write these treatises defending that lying low-rent douchebag, let's drop it.

If you want to keep going, however, we'll have no choice but to keep it going.

All the facts are in my favor. Just b/c a gang of folks are against me doesn't make me wrong. Any objective person could easily see that Herm did a good job here. He wasn't great but he wasn't awful either he was good and everyone forgets how NO ONE wanted the job when Herm took over. How BP walked out then BP then Groh then BP declined again then Capers took his name out of the running then it was either Herm or Carthon- we made the right choice and we had alot of success.

[mangenious420]

All the facts are in my favor. Just b/c a gang of folks are against me doesn't make me wrong. Any objective person could easily see that Herm did a good job here. He wasn't great but he wasn't awful either he was good and everyone forgets how NO ONE wanted the job when Herm took over. How BP walked out then BP then Groh then BP declined again then Capers took his name out of the running then it was either Herm or Carthon- we made the right choice and we had alot of success.

Alot of success?

[Bugg]

NYJUNC-

So since Edwards gave Carter a chance, it was okay to humiliate him for somethingt hatw as really Edwards' own fault?

If you're a UNC fan, you remember Jordan's title win over Georgetown. The Hoyas still had a chance at the end, but Freddy Brown of Georgetown brainfarted it away.

While the Tar Heels were celebrating, John Thompson, to his eternal credit, went over and hugged Freddy Brown. And whent he question got asked, Thompson noted the Hoyas wouldn't have been there but for Freddy Brown, and his msitake was just the last one ina series of them by the Hoyas. There's a lot of people who don't like John Thompson, and some have good reasons. But I always thought that one moment of kindness was a real plus for hm as a person.

I thought that a real man in Edwards' position, once with decency and honor, would've fessed up and taken the blame for his own failings rather than blame a very vulnerable guy who for the msot part did his job very well. But Edwards isn't a real man like John Thompson.

[mangenious420]

YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME, YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!

no, i thought you played it for other reasons.

[Preston Howley III]

I don't know what the problem was in the giants game, that wasn't a clokc mgmt problem it was a communication problem.

It was Doug Brien's fault. No, it was...

It was Ted Cottrells fault.

It was Hacketts fault, too. But Herm couldn't throw both of them under the bus at the end of the season, because it wouldn't look good. So we were forced to suffer through another wasted season (and opportunity) so Herm could save face.

At least Cumar got to reach 10 seasons with 1000+ yards, though. We can all hang our hats on that, in perpetuity.

[drago]

First off, it was 2001 I was referring to, not 2002. The Hermy Lover stated that Herm may have had the same team Groh and Tuna did but they played bnetter for Herm in 2001 then they did in 2000 or 1999. That was a false statemtn and I proved it as such.

Secondly, and on that same subject, when you factor in that Herm had 4 #1 picks AND Lav Coles who all had a year under their belts, Vinny two years removed from achilles surgery, a healthy Martin (he played hurt most of 2000), the addition of Moss and Jordan to the team AND that most of the core from 1998-2000 was still young and productive (Mawae, Fabini, Fergy, Glenn, Farrior, Lewis, JOnes, Thomas, Coleman, Green) an arguement can be made that he had a BETTER talented team then Groh did in 2000. Herm did NOT have a new QB when he took over in 2001, his RB was in his prime and HEALTIER then the year before, and unlike Groh did not have 4 ROOKIE #1s...Herm had them with a years experience.

Finally, if you want to argue 2002, thats fine too. He all but dismissed Chad in TC saying he had no chance to take the job from Vinny, The team then started 2-5 and looked AWFUL and ONLY made a run because Chad was inserted AFTER Vinny got hurt and had the season of his life! We blew a VERY crucial game to a terrible Chi team in week 15 that would have clinched a playoff spot for us and then had to rely on two (not one, two) Miami collapses in the last two weeks to even have the CHANCE to make the playoffs. I give him and the team credit for the GB win and the INdyblowout but better team or not, Oakland made us look foolish in the second half of that game and Herm did NOTHING to adjust...because he couldnt.

I think my argeemtn is dead on balls accuarte and not harsh at all. Herm had a MUCH better team then alost ANY first time HC could possibly hope to inherit.

i said it before. he had a good team, he made a good run at the mid-point of the season. Killed the Packers, killed the Colts.

I said it before, it was a good season, he did a pretty good job. Are you missing something?

[jetophile]

Aye-yigh, again?! Or should I stay, STILL?! Here, here's a pack of Bic Pens. Pick a color. Here's a photo of Herm Edwards' face. Scribble away and be done with it already. I did it long ago. Symbolic. Refreshing. He did us a favor, and it's closure you should all welcome. Me, I'm a dweller, but even I know when holding onto the past is unhealthy and thankless.

They're on sale at Walgreen's.

I prefer the classic, old High School boyfriend Bic ballpoint scribbler outter. Gives better, angry, circular, "Take that, you b*stard!" former face in photo eradication action.

[Preston Howley III]

Aye-yigh, again?! Or should I stay, STILL?! Here, here's a pack of Bic Pens. Pick a color. Here's a photo of Herm Edwards' face. Scribble away and be done with it already. I did it long ago. Symbolic. Refreshing. He did us a favor, and it's closure you should all welcome. Me, I'm a dweller, but even I know when holding onto the past is unhealthy and thankless.

They're on sale at Walgreen's.

I prefer the classic, old High School boyfriend Bic ballpoint scribbler outter. Gives better, angry, circular, "Take that, you b*stard!" former face in photo eradication action.

Hi Ho Silver we were singing all your cowboy songs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMrXO5pK5g4

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMrXO5pK5g4]

[Bugg]

It was Doug Brien's fault. No, it was...

It was Ted Cottrells fault.

It was Hacketts fault, too. But Herm couldn't throw both of them under the bus at the end of the season, because it wouldn't look good. So we were forced to suffer through another wasted season (and opportunity) so Herm could save face.

At least Cumar got to reach 10 seasons with 1000+ yards, though. We can all hang our hats on that, in perpetuity.

HE'S A WARRIOR! ALL THOSE BIG GAMES, BIG PLAYOFF GAMES,LOMBARDIS!Memoroies, for the corner of my NIGTHMARES!

But when you're an unimaginitve fool trying to keep your career going, it's easier to fall back on that Warrior crap than put Jordan in there. Was this about the Jets winning football games or getting one very good(not great) player milestones?

Reminder-2 NFL teams have hired a coach who's primary job is watching the clock for Herman Edwards. This is a skill you kid's Pop Warner coach grasps before the 1st day of practice. This guy is so dumb that even after they hire a guy to do the simplest of tasks for him and he still cannot get it right.

[MSGold12]

The last 4 wins were windonw dressing to get them to 8-8. They had a chance to beat the Colts when they were 4-6 and faild, they ahd a chance to beat a bad Giants team and they got embarrassed, the playoffs were now out of reach and they won 4 straight against 3 teams that were playing awful football. They beat Miami twice, Miami lost 5 of 6 games to end the year then would lose 62-7 in the playoffs. They beat Dallas, Dallas lost 3 of 5 finished 8-8 and were crushed in the WC rd. They also beat Seattle, Seattle also lost 5 of 6 to end the year and lost to the struggling dolphins at home in the WC rd.

They startd 6-1 and needed 4 miracle wins to get to that deceiving record. They were down 19-7 to NE w/ about 2 mins left and won, they needed a hail mary and a KR TD to beat Buffalo, they were down 17-6 w/ under 2 mins at Tampa and won and down 30-7 in the 4th qtr to Miami. Those wins were fools gold and when the comeback magic wore off the team folded losing 6 of their last 9 games.

They finished 7-3 in the last 10 games and the beaqt eventual Champ NE, they swpt playoff team Miami, they beat NO who was playing well at the time(and if we didn't gte a poor spot on the last series we would have run out the clock and beaten No w/ Turley), we beat oak at oak for the first time since we were the Titans and Oak waas playing for a 1st rd bye which probably cost them a SB trip as they lost in the snow at NE.

No it's not especially when he was implementing new systems and working in some younger players as the core got old quickly around them.

So you agree the players and coordinators get all the credit when they play wella nd Herm takes all the blame when they play poorly?

that was their 1st game against a top team and the score was deceiving. we were down 38-24 and were going in for a TD to cut it to 7 when we fumbled at the Indy GL and they returned it for a TD.

SL was pretty good that year, they lost 3 games in the reg season. they made alot of teams look bad. Squeeking out a 1 pt win at carolina was that like squeaking out a 7 pt win over 3 win Det at home this year? or a 3 pt win over Miami? A win is a win. We never played well at Indy(even our '98 team lost at a 3-13 Indy) so any win at Indy is impressive especially when manning and harrison were still playing.

as it turns out we would have clinched but I don't think that was a win and in game going itno the day. In 1997 we lost at home to a 3 win colt team and a 6 win Bills team and we missed the postseason by agme, in '98 we lost to a 6 win bal team, a 4 win SL team and a 3 win Indy team and if we won 2 of those we host the Championship game instead of playing at Denver. in '99 we lost to a bad Giants team in Dec that cost us a playoff spot. in '00 it was detroit at home. The difference btw '97, '99 and '00 is that under Herm we bounced back after bad losses.

We had alot of injuries early on, Curits was hurt in week1 and had less than 100 yds total after 4 gams, 4/5 of the OL was playing hurt or out, we had 6 new starters on defense. As the team got healthy and the D came together we started to win and at a good oak team we were tied 10-10 late in the 3rd. if that was looking lost then I gusss the NE playoff game this year we looked even more lost?

2003 was a wasted year, we lost alot in FA(thanks to the cap problems left to us by BP) and we had major injuries. They fought back and beat some good teams downb the stretch.

SD was 12-4, buf was 9-7- how were 4 of the 5 cupcakes? The bottom line is we won. We had a chance to go 5-0 in 2000 playing a 1-3 Pitt team at home and we lost. in '99 we lost 3 games to teams w/ a combined 13 wins.

we lost in OT at SL, we got our asses handed to us? we then went on the road and beat 12-4 SD and were a makeable kick away from the AFC Title Game.

They got beat up at KC, it happens. NE lost 31-0 at Buf in the '03 opener. heck in Jets history we were crushed 31-0 in week 1 in '81 and made the playoffs, crushed 31-0 in week 1 in '85 and made playoffs, started 0-2 in '98 and made the tile game, were crushed in week 1 of '01 and made the playoffs.

it was overblown b/c of early struggles. his clock mgmt never cost su a big game but in the last couple of weeks Seattle lost a game b/c of poor clock mgmt, SD did, NE did, chi tried but none of those coaches were grilled.

It's not about '85 and '86, in '83 he inherited a team 30 mins from the SB in '82. We were a young, talented team and it took him 3 years to make the postseason and went out in the WC rd at home in '85 and collapsed in '86. 2 POs in 7 years is very different from 3 POs in 5 years.

completely incorrect. in '01 we had Vinny at QB, young at RT, Jenkins at G, thomas at G, Chrebet as our #1 WR, burton, Green, Glenn, Coleman, Farrior, Steve Martin and that team was overhauled after '01 and he took us back w/ Chad at QB, Coles as our #1 WR, Moss as a contributor, Mckenzie at RT, Machado at G until Szott came back in Dec, Cowart in place of Farrior, Donnie Abe, garnes, Beasley, Ferguson. THEN in 2004 we were revamped again as McCareins replaced Chrebet, Kendall, Moore, Moss was a starting WR, Barton came over, Vilma, erik Coleman, mark brown became a contributor, Robertson, Tongue, Bryan Thomas started to contribute, hobson became a starter.

We basically made 3 playoffs w/ 3 different teams under Herm.

Like Saban, Parcells, Belichick, holmgren, Vermeil,...

as usual you bring nothing and I destroyed yout pathetic argument.

lack of facts? My posts vare all facts. This debate is a joke, I have proven over and over again Herm did a good job but since you hate herm for some reason(you bring up race alot) you always try to belittle my well detailed argument.

You THINK you did, in reality I showed you that you were wrong AGAIN.

Everyone wants Chad out of here, Abe was always hurt, people have been whining about Ellis for years and Becht is universally hated. Herm and Tb did not make those picks and Coles barely played in 2000. I love how Cotchery's credit goes to mangini when he played last year and struggled but when Coles struggled in '00 w/ groh then began to take off in '01 w/ Herm it was b/c BP and Groh left him for Herm. You guys are funny.

He inherited a QB who threw TWENTY FIVE INTERCEPTIONS the year before and we were changing systems. Curtis was past his prime, He was almost 30 when Herm took over. He still had some excellent years left but his prime years were over.

He didn't dismiss Chad, he motivated Chad. he said he was thinking too much and not just playing. A theory alos brought up by Brian Schottenheimer this year.

There is so much BS, incorrect fact and spin in your post I cant even know where to begin...so I am not going to bother. Never mod you dont bother to even acknowledge the schedule arguement or the fact that they squeeked by 3 crappy teams by 1 point. Nah...why acknowledge that stuff. Better to ignore it and continue spewing your crap.

You are a joke...and obviously easily fooled. You have been taken in by a charlatan. Dont worry, many others were too for many yeras. The diffeence between themn and you is that they were smart enough to see the truth. You on the other hand will continue your assinein crusade to defend a man who is not worth defending.

Fine...go aherad and think herm is a great coach. BUt your defense of him is a joke no matter nhow many times you want to claim i am "bringing nhting to the table". If you thinm you are THAT right and eveyrone else is THAT worng then you are noting more then a naive fool and I am not wasting any more time wiht a naive fool...especially one that defends an unqualified, lying a-hole like Hermna Edwards.

The bigest joke abu all you Hermy Lovers is you are all so alike and so prediuctable. The biggest difercne is that you fools NEVER criticize the guy and have an answer for everything. I mena even I, the biggest Herm Hater of them all, can give him his credit when it was due (whihc wasnt often). You geniuses NEVER find fualt wiht him...you even DEFENDFED his clock management! LOL!!! You all ignore counter arguemnts and proivide nice spin to defend the moron. Fine...but yur wrong...and you know your wrong. Its the deep seeded betrayal you feel and the embarassment you feel about being sop wrong about a man you defende dfor 5 years. get over it. You were worng about him...move on. He wa sunderqualified from day 1, he did not improve at all and made the same mistakes in year 1 he did in year 5, he threw everyone and anyone under the bus to save his own ass, he made excuses galore, he took talented teams and never made them any better, his overall record wa sno better then Joe Waltons, and then as soon as the going truly got tough...he bolted. And after telling us for 5 years how honior and integrity were SO important. And this is the man you defend? Nice judge of character you are.

BUt I'm done. You want the last word...be my guest. BUt at the end of the day, anyone who defends that man wioht the type of passion you do is nohting but a naive, misinformed fool.

[MSGold12]

It was Doug Brien's fault. No, it was...

It was Ted Cottrells fault.

It was Hacketts fault, too. But Herm couldn't throw both of them under the bus at the end of the season, because it wouldn't look good. So we were forced to suffer through another wasted season (and opportunity) so Herm could save face.

At least Cumar got to reach 10 seasons with 1000+ yards, though. We can all hang our hats on that, in perpetuity.

MOses.

Who IS this moron NYJUnc? Does he go buy ohter names on other boards as he spews this BS??? He sounds like GG76 or like Bitonti used to. I mena NO ONE defended Herm like BIt did and even BIt saw the light.

This guy is a bigger fool the GG76...whihc I thought was mpossibe.

And I love the whole "just because the crowd is against me doesnt mean Im wrong" garabge. That is a losers lament.

BL, anyone who defends Herm as a coach (especially after his embarassment v Indy), is a ill informed fool..end of story.

[MSGold12]

Oh and one last thing Mr. Captain of the Obvious.

I hgvae brought up race exactly twice (this being the second time) and BOTH times in response to you interjectig it into this thread. If yu cant sustain an arguement on facts alone and need to run to the race card to try a solidfy your point then you are even more turly pathetic then I originally thought. I mena seriously, blatanly ignoring vaild challenges to your arguemtns is one thing. I can even live wiht this little "your arguement proves nothing and my arhguement is truth" charade you try to put on to make yourself believe you are wining an arguement you are in reality losing badly. But bringin up the race issue to try and salavge whats left of your credibiity? I truly feel sorry for the likes of you. What a sorry existance you must lead.

So I guess wiht you its when in doubt, throw race into it. Whats next Mr. I'm to Simpe to be bale to See the Forest Throught the Trees? You gonnna make fun of my typos to try and sustain your weak excuse for a positon? Buh-bye.

LOL!!!!!

[Thai Jet]

Oh and one last thing Mr. Captain of the Obvious.

I hgvae brought up race exactly twice (this being the second time) and BOTH times in response to you interjectig it into this thread. If yu cant sustain an arguement on facts alone and need to run to the race card to try a solidfy your point then you are even more turly pathetic then I originally thought. I mena seriously, blatanly ignoring vaild challenges to your arguemtns is one thing. I can even live wiht this little "your arguement proves nothing and my arhguement is truth" charade you try to put on to make yourself believe you are wining an arguement you are in reality losing badly. But bringin up the race issue to try and salavge whats left of your credibiity? I truly feel sorry for the likes of you. What a sorry existance you must lead.

So I guess wiht you its when in doubt, throw race into it. Whats next Mr. I'm to Simpe to be bale to See the Forest Throught the Trees? You gonnna make fun of my typos to try and sustain your weak excuse for a positon? Buh-bye.

LOL!!!!!

I'll do it for him; the typos made reading your post quite the chore. Please re read before you submit. Thank you.

[Preston Howley III]

MOses.

Who IS this moron NYJUnc? Does he go buy ohter names on other boards as he spews this BS??? He sounds like GG76 or like Bitonti used to. I mena NO ONE defended Herm like BIt did and even BIt saw the light.

This guy is a bigger fool the GG76...whihc I thought was mpossibe.

And I love the whole "just because the crowd is against me doesnt mean Im wrong" garabge. That is a losers lament.

BL, anyone who defends Herm as a coach (especially after his embarassment v Indy), is a ill informed fool..end of story.

I truly marvel at nyjunc's defense of Herman Edwards.

I didn't think my contempt for the man could intensify any further, and then I watched him as he BS'ed with a camereman on the sideline during a playoff game.

Unbelievable.

[MSGold12]

I truly marvel at nyjunc's defense of Herman Edwards.

I didn't think my contempt for the man could intensify any further, and then I watched him as he BS'ed with a camereman on the sideline during a playoff game.

Unbelievable.

I can understand some not having the intensity of hatred for the man that you and I and many others do...I get that. But to be defdning the man as a coach SO vehemently? No, sorry...that just reminds me of the Hermy Lovers from 2001-2005. PLus, the way he just negates all the challenges to his defense or his "I'm right, you're wrong...therefore you're wrong" way he argues the point....ridiculous.

BL, Herm was a well below average strategist, well below average coach on game day, slightly above average in motivation, below average in persoinell decision making. How that translates for some into "good coach" based on notinhg more then a w/l record is beyond me. And to continue to defend hi when he just had the EXACT same season in KC that he had here in 01, 02, and 04? A season in whihc his team was wildly inconsistent, often unprepared, backed into the playoffs based on other teams failures and then was absolutely embarassed by some of the worst coahing EVER in the history of post season?

Nah, thats juts a pig headed fool refusing to accept reality and arguing juts because he can't fathom he was wrong about the guy. Not to mention tossing i the race card whenever he feels like hes losing the battle. Pathetic. Bt Im done wiht the guy...no sense in banging your head against the wall. Once he started using the race card, he lost bth my repsect and my time.

PS- If he starts defending Cannizzaro, I will be convinced he is Sooth in disguise!

[Preston Howley III]

I can understand some not having the intensity of hatred for the man that you and I and many others do...I get that. But to be defdning the man as a coach SO vehemently? No, sorry...that just reminds me of the Hermy Lovers from 2001-2005. PLus, the way he just negates all the challenges to his defense or his "I'm right, you're wrong...therefore you're wrong" way he argues the point....ridiculous.

BL, Herm was a well below average strategist, well below average coach on game day, slightly above average in motivation, below average in persoinell decision making. How that translates for some into "good coach" based on notinhg more then a w/l record is beyond me. And to continue to defend hi when he just had the EXACT same season in KC that he had here in 01, 02, and 04? A season in whihc his team was wildly inconsistent, often unprepared, backed into the playoffs based on other teams failures and then was absolutely embarassed by some of the worst coahing EVER in the history of post season?

Nah, thats juts a pig headed fool refusing to accept reality and arguing juts because he can't fathom he was wrong about the guy. Not to mention tossing i the race card whenever he feels like hes losing the battle. Pathetic. Bt Im done wiht the guy...no sense in banging your head against the wall. Once he started using the race card, he lost bth my repsect and my time.

PS- If he starts defending Cannizzaro, I will be convinced he is Sooth in disguise!

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters to the fanatical Herm apologists is he "gets" his teams into the playoffs. So did Joe Walton and Dave Wannstedt but the difference is, reasonable, rational, and logical people can see the big picture with Walton and Wannstedt but the good soldiers who defend Herm like to focus in on how their wasn't any unemployment or inflation from 1934 to 1943. Yeah but, what about this, that and the other thing? Oh, well, he got his team to the playoffs.

End of discussion. It's like talking to a brick wall.

[MSGold12]

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters to the fanatical Herm apologists is he "gets" his teams into the playoffs. So did Joe Walton and Dave Wannstedt but the difference is, reasonable, rational, and logical people can see the big picture with Walton and Wannstedt but the good soldiers who defend Herm like to focus in on how their wasn't any unemployment or inflation from 1934 to 1943. Yeah but, what about this, that and the other thing? Oh, well, he got his team to the playoffs.

End of discussion. It's like talking to a brick wall.

One of Herms greatest "tircks" wa subtly lowering the bar to make his very average accompishments look more impressive. How often did we have to hear about how impressive that it was that they "made the playoffs" (remember him pulling out that stupid letter?). How abuot the ridicuoous hub bub when they srtarted out 5-0...as if that was some season making accomplishemnt. The goal is to win a SB. Culd you EVER see Tuna or BB or Cowher or any good coach making that big a deal out of just making the playoffs???

BL on Herm...39-41 career record, two appearcences in the playoffs as a 6 seed, one division win at 9-7 on the third tie break after collapses by other teams, 2 playoffs wins, 3 playoff losses (2 where he was BADLY out coached and one where his 'play not to lose' mentality cost us the game. He had massive roster turn over 3 times in 5 years, went though 2 OCs and 2 DCs, and then, the man who always talked abuot truth, honor and integrity lied his ass off and skipped town. THAT is his legacy.

[jetophile]

How abuot the ridicuoous hub bub when they srtarted out 5-0...as if that was some season making accomplishemnt. The goal is to win a SB. Culd you EVER see Tuna or BB or Cowher or any good coach making that big a deal out of just making the playoffs???

I thought starting out 0-4 was pretty snappy. We also have no ring under Fat Parcells. Just sayin'...

He had massive roster turn over 3 times in 5 years, went though 2 OCs and 2 DCs, and then, the man who always talked abuot truth, honor and integrity lied his ass off and skipped town. THAT is his legacy.

But didn't we all get what we wanted regardless of HOW he left? Here. It's on me.

Blue, Green, Red, or Black built right in. Best invention ever.

[JetCane]

We also have no ring under Fat Parcells. Just sayin'...

BP was on M&and Mad Dog this week, and mentioned a couple of times that Denver 98 was the worst loss of his career.

Though he didnt leave the Jets in great shape, he's aight in my book, having restored a winning attitude to the organization following the kotite debacle.

[jetophile]

BP was on M&and Mad Dog this week, and mentioned a couple of times that Denver 98 was the worst loss of his career.

Though he didnt leave the Jets in great shape, he's aight in my book, having restored a winning attitude to the organization following the kotite debacle.

Holysmokessonofab*tch (shakes fist)! If I ever see him, I'll run him over - and you better steer me right into him from your spot in the passenger seat.

[Bugg]

I thought starting out 0-4 was pretty snappy. We also have no ring under Fat Parcells. Just sayin'...

But didn't we all get what we wanted regardless of HOW he left? Here. It's on me.

Blue, Green, Red, or Black built right in. Best invention ever.

There's a lot ot say about the Parcells regime, good and bad.Salary cap hell for huge contracts, stuck drafting Me-shawn over Peyton, some questionable drafts, the annual "will he or won't he?"/Man in the Mirror nonsense. On balance, though, he was far superior to Edwards in every way. And anyone who's watched football knows they'd take Parcells over Edwards in a heartbeat. In fact, on the one occasion I can recall, Parcells' Boys spanked Edwards' Jets in the Meadowlands in 2003.

But in both 1997 and 2000, the Jets were in many ways victims of bad luck the same way Edwards was always on the beneficiary of good luck. In 1999 the Jets were the favorite in the AFC until Testaverde's opeing day injury, and still almost made the playoffs. And in 1998, the Jets had a 10-0 lead in the 3rd quarter of the AFC title game in Denver.I've even heard Parcells that that game is his biggest disappointment in coaching because so much went wrong in those 20 minutes. And I can remembrr that at his next presser he amde the point that 1998 guaranteed nothing for 1999. I'd say that's a better record than Edwards; no losing seasons,and he turned this franchise around. And he got us to within 20 minutes of a Super Bowl, which is further than Edwards ever got.

Always got the sense that Parcells understood just how hard this was, and he never let his teams get overly excited but rather did his best to focus and prepare them for the next game and nothing more. And there's a lot of that in Mangini-a loss isn't grounds for slitting your wrists and a win spare the Super Bowl isn't a reason for a party; get ready for next week. In contrast, with the emotional Edwards, every victory was grounds for the Thanksgiving Day parade, every loss a crisis. And it showed; the problem with emotion and "motivation" practice by Edwards is he clearly thinks it's a susbstitute for hard work and preparation, and it's not. After the first hit, all that screaming and BS is by the boards. The fact that you were physically ready from offseason workouts and camp and prepared thoroughly by a good coach matters much more than some Knute Rockne crap.

ABove all, Parcells is one of the best gameday coaches ever. Edwards is a complete disaster.

[JetCane]

Holysmokessonofab*tch (shakes fist)! If I ever see him, I'll run him over - and you better steer me right into him from your spot in the passenger seat.

No way. I only have so much hate to around, and BP is not the object of mine. There are too many other deserving subjects on which to focus.

[MSGold12]

There's a lot ot say about the Parcells regime, good and bad.Salary cap hell for huge contracts, stuck drafting Me-shawn over Peyton, some questionable drafts, the annual "will he or won't he?"/Man in the Mirror nonsense. On balance, though, he was far superior to Edwards in every way. And anyone who's watched football knows they'd take Parcells over Edwards in a heartbeat. In fact, on the one occasion I can recall, Parcells' Boys spanked Edwards' Jets in the Meadowlands in 2003.

But in both 1997 and 2000, the Jets were in many ways victims of bad luck the same way Edwards was always on the beneficiary of good luck. In 1999 the Jets were the favorite in the AFC until Testaverde's opeing day injury, and still almost made the playoffs. And in 1998, the Jets had a 10-0 lead in the 3rd quarter of the AFC title game in Denver.I've even heard Parcells that that game is his biggest disappointment in coaching because so much went wrong in those 20 minutes. And I can remembrr that at his next presser he amde the point that 1998 guaranteed nothing for 1999. I'd say that's a better record than Edwards; no losing seasons,and he turned this franchise around. And he got us to within 20 minutes of a Super Bowl, which is further than Edwards ever got.

Always got the sense that Parcells understood just how hard this was, and he never let his teams get overly excited but rather did his best to focus and prepare them for the next game and nothing more. And there's a lot of that in Mangini-a loss isn't grounds for slitting your wrists and a win spare the Super Bowl isn't a reason for a party; get ready for next week. In contrast, with the emotional Edwards, every victory was grounds for the Thanksgiving Day parade, every loss a crisis. And it showed; the problem with emotion and "motivation" practice by Edwards is he clearly thinks it's a susbstitute for hard work and preparation, and it's not. After the first hit, all that screaming and BS is by the boards. The fact that you were physically ready from offseason workouts and camp and prepared thoroughly by a good coach matters much more than some Knute Rockne crap.

ABove all, Parcells is one of the best gameday coaches ever. Edwards is a complete disaster.

I thini your analysis is dead n about Herm. Well said.

Parcells was far from perfect...specifcally as a GM. But to even compare Herym to Tna as a game day coach or stretgist is comical.

Parcells had his blunders (1997 v Detroit, going with Mirer, etc) but overall (his drafting aside) he did a very good job as a HC taking a 1-15 team to an AFC title game 2 years later. He left alot to be desired as a GM wiht his poor drafting and slaary cap handling.

Edwards never built anyting, never got past round 2 of the playoffs, was a useless strategist ad game day coach. The onyl thin the two have in common is they both bolted on us. That aside, mentioning Hermy and Tuna in the same setence is ridiculous.

And I love how Hermy supporters always have to use comparisons to bolster thir case. Tell them just making the playoffs is no great accomplishemt and they'll tell you Herm made it more then any other Jet coach. As if our teams wreched past has lowerd the bar so much that merely making the playoffs somehow equates to superlative results.

[TBrady]

BP was on M&and Mad Dog this week, and mentioned a couple of times that Denver 98 was the worst loss of his career.

Though he didnt leave the Jets in great shape, he's aight in my book, having restored a winning attitude to the organization following the kotite debacle.

Anyone could've followed Kotite and looked good, Parcells stepped into a perfect situation, the team had talent but sucked because of poor coaching, they had nowhere to go but up, as a coach he did a decent job, made some mistakes, as a GM he did a poor job, throwing out crazy contracts with his mortgage the future to win now mentality, not having a quaity backup for Vinny in case of an injury, getting rid of our only solid pass rusher in Hugh Douglas for nothing, instead of taking Olando Pace, only one of the best linemen, trading down and getting poor quality in return.

And then when it came to stability, he gave us none, Coaching from year to year gave us no stability, I was actually happy to see Parcells go to get some stability back in the team to build on.

[jetophile]

No way. I only have so much hate to around, and BP is not the object of mine. There are too many other deserving subjects on which to focus.

What?! Hints of lovefests undeserving puts a bee in my bonnet. Me, I'd rather beat the hell out of a Parcells pinata with a bat that says 'Respectability' on it, maybe some candy that says 'Big Deal' falls out.

[MSGold12]

What?! Hints of lovefests undeserving puts a bee in my bonnet. Me, I'd rather beat the hell out of a Parcells pinata with a bat that says 'Respectability' on it, maybe some candy that says 'Big Deal' falls out.

My biggest issue wiht Parcells is that not once but twice he abandoned us. When BB bolted, Tuna shouod have sucked it up and coached us aohter year...especially after such a strong finish in 1999. Instead he picked Groh. The when Groh bolted on us, once again HE shoud have gone back to the field for us...instead he saddled us with Bradway and Herm.

Parcells is a great coach but a scum bag of a human being as he has proved over and over. Jet fans should thank him for righting the ship after the Kotite disaster but we do not owe him any great debt of gratitude considering how he exited.