The Troll Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 LT only had a 3.6 YPC his rookie season... that would be 544 yards with 151 carries (carries Leon had this year) While if Leon had 339 carries (what LT had his rookie year) he would have had 1,458 yards this season at his 4.3 YPC pace... Im not saying Leon is anything near LT right now, but to discredit his ability to be a starter based on his rookie year with limited carries and a medicore O line is not right. I think Leon would be wheeled into an infirmary before he could come remotely close to getting 339 carries in a season. That is my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 I think Leon would be wheeled into an infirmary before he could come remotely close to getting 339 carries in a season. That is my point. Leon Washington - 5'8" 202lbs Warrick Dunn - 5'9" 180lbs Warrick Dunn has had 831 carries in the past 3 seasons (277 a year avg) and Im sure he could have taken 4 more carries per game a year which would bring it to about 340 carries per year... He also did that while starting all 16 games for the past 3 years... not to mention he is 20 pounds lighter... Dunn also had 1000+ yards all 3 of those seasons while having a 4.43 YPC for those 3 years.... There is my hard evidence to back up Leon, have anything except "he cant do it" to back up your case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 LT was a beast in college. Nothing workout warrior-like there. The bottom line is that we don't know what Leon can do. ****ty offensive line and lady-armed QB be damned. My point is that it's not very wise to assume Leon can be the man whenever he has never carried the ball 20 times in multiple games, is under-sized, and had injury problems in college. Read into it what you will, but when Houston came back, Leon's role was minimized. Is that because Mangini felt he would wear down if he kept getting a nearly full load? Is it because Leon failed to impress the coaching staff enough? I think if Mangini thought Leon was the future at running back, then he wouldn't have been relegated to an afterthought midway through the season. I don't understand the argument that leon saw less time late in the year. The last game of the year he was almost exclusive, I think houston got his first carry in the 3rd quarter? (if i'm wrong there it can't be by much). You can't really count the Raider game anyway, i mean that was a JV team. So regardless who had the carries there, its a moot point. Either way I like Leon A LOT, as a tandem with whoever they see fit. If i could i'd beg them not to trade up for a Back. Get a damn Gaurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 I think if Mangini thought Leon was the future at running back, then he wouldn't have been relegated to an afterthought midway through the season. Playoffs - JETS vs PATS Carries Leon - 11 Cedric - 1 Hell even Chad and Cotch had 2 attempts... I would hardly say that Houston passed him late in the year, I would say it was more of a chance for Houston to prove himself and get Leon some rest (rookie)... The fact that they used LEON almost exclusively in a PLAYOFF game pretty much sums up that they do consider him the future, unless of course we bring in an upgrade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34st GANG Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 ecurb There is no article needed to prove what Payton wants today much less 2 years from now. So let talk about the facts, Payton had "The Best" Running back in the draft all year, Bush played in 16 games, how many times did he have 20+ carries. ONCE vs the Giants he carried 20 times. (Duce carred 27 times that day). Duce also carried 20+ times 5 times this year. Even adding Bushes 88 catches and Duce's 30 he still comes up short of what he could have done. Now I don't profess to know what Payton is thinking, but he could have easly called Bushed Number more then Duce. And the FACT that he dind not speaks volumes. With that said I can only hope that Leon is used right, and at his size, and with the added size of the players today vs when Cutis was a rookie, the smart money is to move him around the offense for the next ten years, not plunge him into the line 300+ times a year. Here is the link to the Saints stats page. http://www.neworleanssaints.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 ecurb There is no article needed to prove what Payton wants today much less 2 years from now. So let talk about the facts, Payton had "The Best" Running back in the draft all year, Bush played in 16 games, how many times did he have 20+ carries. ONCE vs the Giants he carried 20 times. (Duce carred 27 times that day). Duce also carried 20+ times 5 times this year. Even adding Bushes 88 catches and Duce's 30 he still comes up short of what he could have done. Now I don't profess to know what Payton is thinking, but he could have easly called Bushed Number more then Duce. And the FACT that he dind not speaks volumes. With that said I can only hope that Leon is used right, and at his size, and with the added size of the players today vs when Cutis was a rookie, the smart money is to move him around the offense for the next ten years, not plunge him into the line 300+ times a year. Look at my post http://jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=414990&postcount=37 Thats what Warrick Dunn, a smaller RB than leon has done for the past 3 seasons... in TODAYS NFL.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Leon Washington - 5'8" 202lbs Warrick Dunn - 5'9" 180lbs Warrick Dunn has had 831 carries in the past 3 seasons (277 a year avg) and Im sure he could have taken 4 more carries per game a year which would bring it to about 340 carries per year... He also did that while starting all 16 games for the past 3 years... not to mention he is 20 pounds lighter... Dunn also had 1000+ yards all 3 of those seasons while having a 4.43 YPC for those 3 years.... There is my hard evidence to back up Leon, have anything except "he cant do it" to back up your case? So, your "hard evidence" is nothing more than "Look what Warrick Dunn did. He is smaller". As if every other running back in the history of the NFL that was larger than Warrick Dunn has been 100% able to sustain a full load of carries season after season. Warrick Dunn is the exception, not the rule. Dunn also remained healthy in college, something Leon did not do. Hell, look at Brian Westbrook. Great back, but he's never played a full season in his entire career. He is 5-8, 200, which is closer to Leon than Dunn is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 So, your "hard evidence" is nothing more than "Look what Warrick Dunn did. He is smaller". As if every other running back in the history of the NFL that was larger than Warrick Dunn has been 100% able to sustain a full load of carries season after season. Warrick Dunn is the exception, not the rule. Dunn also remained healthy in college, something Leon did not do. Hell, look at Brian Westbrook. Great back, but he's never played a full season in his entire career. He is 5-8, 200, which is closer to Leon than Dunn is. If Leon turns out anything like Brian Westbrook then the premise is right. We have out #1 back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 I don't understand the argument that leon saw less time late in the year. The last game of the year he was almost exclusive, I think houston got his first carry in the 3rd quarter? (if i'm wrong there it can't be by much). You can't really count the Raider game anyway, i mean that was a JV team. So regardless who had the carries there, its a moot point. Either way I like Leon A LOT, as a tandem with whoever they see fit. If i could i'd beg them not to trade up for a Back. Get a damn Gaurd. Following the Chicago game, in our stretch run to the playoffs Leon received 5, 7, 7, 3, 6, and finally 15 carries in the regular season finale against Oakland. The only times Leon was the primary back past week eleven were in week 17 and the playoff game. If they thought he was THE FUTURE, I doubt he would have been sitting on the bench for most of the time in our must win games. He showed a spark in the Miami game and that is why he got the carries in the final two. But, I highly doubt his performances in those last two games made Mangini believe he had his RB of the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 If Leon turns out anything like Brian Westbrook then the premise is right. We have out #1 back. It took Brian Westbrook five years to be Brian Westbrook. Prior to this season, his career high in rushing yards was 812 yards. He succeeded because he didn't get murdered. He didn't get murdered because Andy Reid would put the ball in the air 35 times every single game. So, if we get a QB like Donovan McNabb, sure, Leon can be our Westbrook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangenious420 Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 It took Brian Westbrook five years to be Brian Westbrook. Prior to this season, his career high in rushing yards was 812 yards. He succeeded because he didn't get murdered. He didn't get murdered because Andy Reid would put the ball in the air 35 times every single game. So, if we get a QB like Donovan McNabb, sure, Leon can be our Westbrook. Thank you for saving me the trouble of typing something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 OK now that we all know where we stand... Unless we bring in a SURE UPGRADE... Leon Washington will be the #1 guy next year and recieve the BULK load of carries for the NYJ offense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Thank you for saving me the trouble of typing something similar. I think I'm getting confused. Is this the Leon is a solid half of a 1-2 punch thread or the Leon is going to be Warrick Dunn thread? As part of a 1-2 he'll be fine and I'm sure he can handle many more carries than he got this year. I don't advocate giving him 25 per and the Jets throw the ball plenty, but I agree they need more than just Leon. I'll take my chances with him before going nuts for a back be it Turner, Bush, or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangenious420 Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 I think I'm getting confused. Is this the Leon is a solid half of a 1-2 punch thread or the Leon is going to be Warrick Dunn thread? As part of a 1-2 he'll be fine and I'm sure he can handle many more carries than he got this year. I don't advocate giving him 25 per and the Jets throw the ball plenty, but I agree they need more than just Leon. I'll take my chances with him before going nuts for a back be it Turner, Bush, or whatever. Aslong as we have a quarterback with a 25 yard deep ball, come playoff time the BB's and Mike Shanahan's are going to walk 8 up in the box. So yes we need help in the running back position. And ecurb of course he's are number 1 without an upgrage, but again what's that saying when behind him sit's Barlow, Houston, Blaylock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetCane Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 FWIW I think Leon will be lining up as the starting RB on opening day, as part of a 1-2 tandem. I am guessing that one of Houston/Barlow will be gone, and a new guy will be in the backfield sharing carries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 OK now that we all know where we stand... Unless we bring in a SURE UPGRADE... Leon Washington will be the #1 guy next year and recieve the BULK load of carries for the NYJ offense... No, that is where YOU stand. You are not the voice of the New York Jets fan. Soothsayer is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Not again.....Leon is not a starting back, never will be. Just cause Martin did it, doesnt mean Leon can. Fact is, as overrated as Martin is/was, he took the pain and beatings of a man his size in the NFL like no other. Leon doesnt break any arm tackles from Dlineman at the line of scrimmage, he was very bad running out of the "I formation" this year. He's good at runng offtackle, and catching passes out of the backfield, but there is a reason the Jets offense didnt ask him to run between the G and C. He couldnt do it consistently enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Not again.....Leon is not a starting back, never will be. Just cause Martin did it, doesnt mean Leon can. Fact is, as overrated as Martin is/was, he took the pain and beatings of a man his size in the NFL like no other. Leon doesnt break any arm tackles from Dlineman at the line of scrimmage, he was very bad running out of the "I formation" this year. He's good at runng offtackle, and catching passes out of the backfield, but there is a reason the Jets offense didnt ask him to run between the G and C. He couldnt do it consistently enough. Nice try, i can remember one instance off the top of my head where he broke a defensive tackls grasp and got back to the line of scrimmage. Most other backs would have taken the 4 yard loss. I'm sure if you had an NFL franchise it would look just like Washington. Big names, no wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Nice try, i can remember one instance off the top of my head where he broke a defensive tackls grasp and got back to the line of scrimmage. Most other backs would have taken the 4 yard loss. I'm sure if you had an NFL franchise it would look just like Washington. Big names, no wins. Oh ok, so because I dont think a 5'8 smurph who doesnt run with consistent power, it makes me a big name wanting daniel snyder clone. Dooshey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Oh ok, so because I dont think a 5'8 smurph who doesnt run with consistent power, it makes me a big name wanting daniel snyder clone. Dooshey. No because you are the sort that would love to trade all of the jets picks to get adrian peterson. And you're right, Leon sucks, that's why he didn't do anything when it mattered (second round with the phins, and the playoffs) It's RT or RG, its not the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Leon has the physical and athletic ability to be better than Curtis, sure that will get you killed on a JETS board.. but c'mon guys... Leon did more with the O-line he had this year than curtis could have done... Are you talking about the 1995 Curtis or the 2005 Curtis? Curtis played for a 6-10 team in '95 behind a suspect line and had 1400+ yards rushing. He also made the Pro Bowl if I'm not mistaken. I'm not trying to take anything away from Leon, but saying he is better than Curtis is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Are you talking about the 1995 Curtis or the 2005 Curtis? Curtis played for a 6-10 team in '95 behind a suspect line and had 1400+ yards rushing. He also made the Pro Bowl if I'm not mistaken. I'm not trying to take anything away from Leon, but saying he is better than Curtis is absurd. Leon is a nice little change of pace back that you could give a lot of touches to against the right defense. But to compare him to Curtis Martin is rediculous. We need an every down back in here - but at the right price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedinGreenNC Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Lets get Jordan back, he was a bruiser! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Leon is a nice little change of pace back that you could give a lot of touches to against the right defense. But to compare him to Curtis Martin is rediculous. We need an every down back in here - but at the right price. I'll give ecurb a pass. I think he is a young bloke who only remembers Curtis' last few injury riddled years and not his excellent early years before Herm rode him into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Are you talking about the 1995 Curtis or the 2005 Curtis? Curtis played for a 6-10 team in '95 behind a suspect line and had 1400+ yards rushing. He also made the Pro Bowl if I'm not mistaken. I'm not trying to take anything away from Leon, but saying he is better than Curtis is absurd. No offense here intended, but you missed the beginning of the argument. We were comparing Leon's size to Curtis' size. Not ability. Eveyone on here (other than a few) want to say leon can't hack it cause of his size. We were pointing out how many terrific backs (if you want to throw curtis in that category feel free) have played at Leon's size, and smaller. No one is saying he is as good as curtis. I hope anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 No offense here intended, but you missed the beginning of the argument. We were comparing Leon's size to Curtis' size. Not ability. Eveyone on here (other than a few) want to say leon can't hack it cause of his size. We were pointing out how many terrific backs (if you want to throw curtis in that category feel free) have played at Leon's size, and smaller. No one is saying he is as good as curtis. I hope anyway. I replied because ecurb posted this gem: Originally Posted by ecurb2369 Leon has the physical and athletic ability to be better than Curtis, sure that will get you killed on a JETS board.. but c'mon guys... Leon did more with the O-line he had this year than curtis could have done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 I replied because ecurb posted this gem: Yeah i missed that. Good reply Gainzo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 I'll give ecurb a pass. I think he is a young bloke who only remembers Curtis' last few injury riddled years and not his excellent early years before Herm rode him into the ground. Sorry I never wacthed Curtis when he was in NE... I dont think Leon is as good as him I just worded it wrong... I dont remember my thought form the moment but I think I was trying to say that Leon made a lot out of what he ahd this year... or something like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 No, that is where YOU stand. You are not the voice of the New York Jets fan. Soothsayer is. Really? So you think that Houston/Barlow/Blaylock/Askew (one of them) could be our #1 guy next year? Becuase all I said was with our current RB's Leon would be the #1 guy getting most of the carries, which is what happened this year BTW... I said that would only be the case unless we got an upgrade... but hey if you think one of the other guys can start then i guess I only speak for 99% of JETS fans when i say that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Sorry I never wacthed Curtis when he was in NE... I dont think Leon is as good as him I just worded it wrong... I dont remember my thought form the moment but I think I was trying to say that Leon made a lot out of what he ahd this year... or something like that... No need to aplogize mate. He did just as well in NY as he did in NE up until Herm ran him 371 times in 2004. That was 3 more carries than he had in his rookie year! Here are his career stats: http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1132 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 No need to aplogize mate. He did just as well in NY as he did in NE up until Herm ran him 371 times in 2004. That was 3 more carries than he had in his rookie year! Here are his career stats: http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1132 Leons YPC this year was better than 9 out of 11 of Cmarts years... thats kind of what threw me off... It was stupid of me though to compare a great 11 year career and tons of carries to Leons YPC on 150 carries... lol I was one of the few that never really liked Cmarts 3 yard runs... 4.0 career YPC Basically I made the mistake of comparing career YPC... stupid yes I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr nyjet Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 How anybody could watch these playoff games featuring guys like LT and Shaun Alexander and think we are "fine" at RB is beyond me. how could anyone watch garcia, hasslebeck, brady , brees, and rivers and think we're 'fine' at qb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 how could anyone watch garcia, hasslebeck, brady , brees, and rivers and think we're 'fine' at qb? Becuase we are "fine" at QB... I think everyone would also agree it is not easy to go get one of the above QB's in the off-season. (Garcia doesnt count! lol) Its much easier to upgrade at RB than it is at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Leons YPC this year was better than 9 out of 11 of Cmarts years... thats kind of what threw me off... It was stupid of me though to compare a great 11 year career and tons of carries to Leons YPC on 150 carries... lol I was one of the few that never really liked Cmarts 3 yard runs... 4.0 career YPC Basically I made the mistake of comparing career YPC... stupid yes I know. 150 carries is a very small sample over a 16 game season. I'll put it this way: A lot of Jets fans want to get Michael Turner. He only had 80 carries this year. 80! Granted he had a fantastic 6.3 yard average but he was also backing up the best RB in the NFL. I wonder how Turner would do with 350 carries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Really? So you think that Houston/Barlow/Blaylock/Askew (one of them) could be our #1 guy next year? Becuase all I said was with our current RB's Leon would be the #1 guy getting most of the carries, which is what happened this year BTW... I said that would only be the case unless we got an upgrade... but hey if you think one of the other guys can start then i guess I only speak for 99% of JETS fans when i say that... New England is living proof you don't need a stud at RB to win. Their 01 title, their 03 title (i forgot, but i don't think they had dillon yet) and now. having a true #1 is overrated. would the jets like an upgrade? yes, who wouldn't. do the jets NEED an upgrade, not necessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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