RichardSeymour Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Everyone was saying he was a few years back. Then he looked decent in limited PT in... '03 I think... and most Jets fans cooled off from the "B word". I just noticed the complete absence of Thomas from Ham's projected 3-4 and 4-3 starting lineups, than looked up Thomas's 28 tackle, 1.5 sack year last year.... which gives him 3 sacks in 3 fairly healthy years. So uh, can we definitely say he was a bust and a wasted pick now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Well, I guess it depends on how important you think stats are. Take Tom Brady or even Richard Seymour for example......ahhh nevermind. Not worth it....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourworstmemory Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 it was a wasted pick. but a bust? i dunno if he is a bust or not. he hasn't seen the field very much and that isn't really all his fault. he has 2 very very good defensive ends ahead of him and the only time he gets on the field is when someone else is injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardSeymour Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 Well, I guess it depends on how important you think stats are. Take Tom Brady or even Richard Seymour for example......ahhh nevermind. Not worth it....... Actually that's why I ask. It's certainly at least possible that even a player with that low sack total wouldn't be a bust... 4-3 DEs, particularly 1st rounders are expected to put up sacks.... but hey, maybe Thomas has been unlucky, gets a lot of pressures, plays the run like a demon, and may be a mild disappointment but not a bust. I'm asking, not announcing. If Bitonti, Ham, Warfish, and YJF all drop into this thread firmly insisting Thomas isn't a bust, I won't be arguing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 He certainly hasn't been worthy of a first round pick, but last year he showed that he is a solid run-stuffer. To me, bust means a guy who is out of the league in 2 or 3 years. I see him as a solid backup, not a bona fide first rounder but not a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YJF Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 I went down this route before on Bryan Thomas. Drafted as a speed rusher (4.5) who was really a great fit in a 3-4 scheme as an OLB/Edge rusher. Jets had him put on weight, He got sick and injured in his rookie year. By putting on over 20 plus pounds. He improved his strength and ability against the run. Unfortunately, In that process, He transformed from a speed rusher to a power DE. When The Jets drafted Thomas, It was expected that he would replace Ellis or Abraham when their deals were up. When you have two young stud pro bowlers in front of you. It's hard to play. Thomas has gotten his chances though. He's just an average defensive d-lineman. Nothing more, Nothing less. He's not a bad player. If he was a 4th rounder. You'd have a different tune on him. But since he was taken in round one. He has not lived up to that standard. Not worthy of a first round pick. Bradway and The Jets front office have had alot of good draft picks. He is not one of them. Thomas is their biggest miss. He hasn't hurt the team and he's not a bad player. He just isn't the star DE, The Jets FO thought he would be. It was a luxury pick when they drafted him. So in terms of being a first rounder...He's a bust... not your typical bust though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormshadow19 Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 I think it's safe to say that he was and is a reach. He isn't producing like Freeney or Abraham, but that said, in the Jets lineup, he really doesn't have to. Just plug a hole and let DRob and Ellis do their thing. But, to answer your question RS, he was a reach, but not a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Complete and total bust. I believe he has 1.5 sacks for his career, if I'm not mistaken. Jets fans can spin it any way they want, BT is not even as effective as 7th rounder Trevor Johnson right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Complete and total bust. Bryan Thomas = Mike Nugent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 I went down this route before on Bryan Thomas. Drafted as a speed rusher (4.5) who was really a great fit in a 3-4 scheme as an OLB/Edge rusher. Jets had him put on weight, He got sick and injured in his rookie year. By putting on over 20 plus pounds. He improved his strength and ability against the run. Unfortunately, In that process, He transformed from a speed rusher to a power DE. When The Jets drafted Thomas, It was expected that he would replace Ellis or Abraham when their deals were up. When you have two young stud pro bowlers in front of you. It's hard to play. Thomas has gotten his chances though. He's just an average defensive d-lineman. Nothing more, Nothing less. He's not a bad player. If he was a 4th rounder. You'd have a different tune on him. But since he was taken in round one. He has not lived up to that standard. Not worthy of a first round pick. Bradway and The Jets front office have had alot of good draft picks. He is not one of them. Thomas is their biggest miss. He hasn't hurt the team and he's not a bad player. He just isn't the star DE, The Jets FO thought he would be. It was a luxury pick when they drafted him. So in terms of being a first rounder...He's a bust... not your typical bust though. This is excellent analysis YJF - Bradway blew this pick at the spot he was taken -if he was taken in the third or 4th round his level of play would be more in line with that spot in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Bryan Thomas = Andy Katzenmoyer I disagree. Thomas has actually lasted more than 3 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Bryan Thomas = Mike Nugent We all know that a kicker can win championships all by himself, as we've seen the Pats do 3 out of 4 years now. So I'm willing to bet that Nugent will deliver us a ring soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanDoug Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Bryan Thomas = Mike Nugent Uh.....TX...... I think you need a little help with your arithmetic. Any teachers in the house? d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 good one tx YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS THAT WE HAVE A CLUTCH KICKER!!! FOOL!!!!! Regarding Bryan Thomas: A FLAT OUT BUST. No beating around the bush or spinning stupid "pressure" stats at me, the man is a bust as it stands right now. Wanna know why I know for sure?? If he was injured and put on IR for the 2005 season........WOULD IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR THE TEAM?? WOULD IT EFFECT OUR CHANCES AT WINNING GAMES?? NOPE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 And considering that a future Hall of Famer was drafted right behind him at a position we were actually more in need of, that has to factor into it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Yes and No. He could start on a lot of teams but not on a team that has John Abraham and Shaun Ellis, Pro Bowlers, at the 2 end positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS THAT WE HAVE A CLUTCH KICKER!!! FOOL!!!!! Yo GI Joe man, how many clutch kicks has Nugent made in the NFL? Thought so. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mawaeman Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Hey you ever hear:(If you build it they will come!)Well I say (IF THEY PLAY HIM THEY WILL KNOW)!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 So uh, can we definitely say he was a bust and a wasted pick now? if nothing else, Bryan Thomas is STARTING CALIBER player, still with upside as he's only 25 (the age of Freeney coming out). In my book a starting caliber player in the NFL is not a bust. A bust is hosing down the produce at the Shop and Stop, or wearing brown shorts delivering my eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 A FLAT OUT BUST. No beating around the bush or spinning stupid "pressure" stats at me, the man is a bust as it stands right now. Wanna know why I know for sure?? If he was injured and put on IR for the 2005 season........WOULD IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR THE TEAM?? WOULD IT EFFECT OUR CHANCES AT WINNING GAMES?? NOPE Barton i respect many of your posts but this is not one of them. Bryan Thomas on any other team would be a full-time starter. On this team he steps in when Abe strains his Labia, which also coincidentally happens to be every big game this team has. This team would be worse without Bryan Thomas, not the same or better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Complete and total bust. I believe he has 1.5 sacks for his career, if I'm not mistaken. Jets fans can spin it any way they want, BT is not even as effective as 7th rounder Trevor Johnson right now. No spin, but Sacks are not the only way to evaluate defensive line play. If they published "QB Hurries" and "knockdowns" (which are plays that contribute to the ultimate success of the game) fans might begin to understand the value of this player. He's not a Blue Chip or even a Red Chip but he's a starter with upside. That's not the same as a Bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Fair enough bitonti! 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Fair enough bitonti! 8) No it's not, Bitonti! B. thomas couldn't start for most of the teams in the league. B. Thomas has made absolutely no impact on this team. Other teams do not scheme for him. Other teams don't even know who he is. If he were anything but a complete BUST, J. Abe would be playing for another team right now. He's serviceable against the run (much like shane Burton, Rick Lyle, and a dozen other no-name role players we've dumped over the years.) And he cost us a first-round pick, which carries with it a certain amount of expectations--the ability to make an impact at the very least. BUST. BUST. BUST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdawg Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormshadow19 Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 No it's not, Bitonti! B. thomas couldn't start for most of the teams in the league. B. Thomas has made absolutely no impact on this team. Other teams do not scheme for him. Other teams don't even know who he is. If he were anything but a complete BUST, J. Abe would be playing for another team right now. He's serviceable against the run (much like shane Burton, Rick Lyle, and a dozen other no-name role players we've dumped over the years.) And he cost us a first-round pick, which carries with it a certain amount of expectations--the ability to make an impact at the very least. BUST. BUST. BUST. If your ever lovin opinion. Has Thomas played up to his lofty expectations? Duh, of course not. Is he a bust? Not quite. He's a reach, that's for sure. Yeah, teams aren't going to game plan for him. He's a back up. He gets no playing time, as he shouldn't, when Abe and Ellis are both healthy. The Jets made the mistake of changing his game, from speed rusher to a tweener. That and Bit knows his linemen, so he does get the benifit of the doubt on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 If you can list more that 30 players who are better than your first round pick three years later, then that player is a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 I agree with bitonti on 1 thing He's a solid player.........but Herm and Terry definetly expected much more from him. He's got another year to prove it IMO, his first year was a total waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 If you call any 1st rounder who is a "servicable backup" anything but a BUST, you're crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormshadow19 Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Well, as soon as they find somewhere to put him and find a position for him to play, then we'll see. But, if he's going from speed rusher to defensive tackle to all around defensive end, yeah, you won't get what you want. I don't know if they know what they want from him. He's very much a waste of a first round pick. There's no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardSeymour Posted May 1, 2005 Author Share Posted May 1, 2005 If you call any 1st rounder who is a "servicable backup" anything but a BUST, you're crazy. I agree with that 100%. If Thomas is a plus starter who is just trapped behind Ellis and Abraham... fine. If he's a JAG caliber starter.... arguably a bust, but definitely not a complete one. But "servicable backups" in the 1st round are absolutely busts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 I agree with that 100%. If Thomas is a plus starter who is just trapped behind Ellis and Abraham... fine. If he's a JAG caliber starter.... arguably a bust, but definitely not a complete one. But "servicable backups" in the 1st round are absolutely busts. Can you say Logan Mankins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Bryan Thomas is more than a serviceable backup - if he wasn't on a team with 2 all-pros in front of him he DEFINATELY would be a starter (in a 4-3). One other point must be noted - Bryan Thomas was 21 coming out - he's 24 now, turning 25 in June. for context Dwight Freeny was 25 coming out, he's 28 this season. When I say Thomas still has upside that is not just blowing smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 If your ever lovin opinion. Has Thomas played up to his lofty expectations? Duh, of course not. Is he a bust? Not quite. He's a reach, that's for sure. Yeah, teams aren't going to game plan for him. He's a back up. He gets no playing time, as he shouldn't, when Abe and Ellis are both healthy. The Jets made the mistake of changing his game, from speed rusher to a tweener. That and Bit knows his linemen, so he does get the benifit of the doubt on this one. Aw, Hell, I'm not busting Bit's chops or saying he's even wrong. I respect his opinions on players and lineman especially. The thing is, Thomas was a reach wehn we got him, but was supposed to make up for being raw with a huge speed advantage and rushing ability. He hasn't done squat with his speed, has been piss-poor in rushing the QB, and after a few seasons of coaching, still hasn't shown anything. Matt Walters showed more promise last preseason. and he isn't even on the squad anymore. So I respectfully disagree with anyone holding out hope that Thomas is going to mature into a stud or anything resembling a starting-caliber DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanDoug Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Bryan Thomas = Mike Nugent Just curious TX.... But are you planning to refer to Mike Nugent as Noodle Leg? d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormshadow19 Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Aw, Hell, I'm not busting Bit's chops or saying he's even wrong. I respect his opinions on players and lineman especially. The thing is, Thomas was a reach wehn we got him, but was supposed to make up for being raw with a huge speed advantage and rushing ability. He hasn't done squat with his speed, has been piss-poor in rushing the QB, and after a few seasons of coaching, still hasn't shown anything. Matt Walters showed more promise last preseason. and he isn't even on the squad anymore. So I respectfully disagree with anyone holding out hope that Thomas is going to mature into a stud or anything resembling a starting-caliber DE. Right, but you're missing one huge point. He has gained weight, and was switched briefly to defensive tackle. So yeah, he's lost alot of why he was drafted. He was drafted, if I'm not mistaken, at the weight of 245. His current weight is 266. 22 pounds above where he was drafted. And, more to the point, he plays behind to Pro Bowl, top ten defensive ends. He probably won't develop into a stud, because the odds are against him, but to say he didn't have potential or he couldn't develop is just plain short sighted. And yeah, he was a reach and he wasn't the BAP. He shouldn't have been drafted, we all agree on that. So, he's a mistake, a reach, but not a bust, yet. Cause, while he doesn't make earth shattering plays, he does pressure the passer and allows the linebackers to make plays. It all depends on how you want to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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