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Best team since 1996


BoomBoomMancini
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That is when I started watching football..

I would say that Denver team that beat the Jets..

They were loaded..

Elway, Davis, Sharpe, McCaffrey, Smith, Romanowski, A****er all in career years..

Of course they were loaded, Denver violated the salary cap that year and was punished for it by the league a few years later.

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Vermeil > Martz

#1 offense (by a LOT); #4 defense (1 ppg behind the #1 defense)

Vermeil is a lot better than Martz, no question. That top defense that they parade around was like the colts D last year. Only good when playing with a lead. If that 99 squad got behind against a team like the 04 pats? They'd end up losing by 20.

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Vermeil is a lot better than Martz, no question. That top defense that they parade around was like the colts D last year. Only good when playing with a lead. If that 99 squad got behind against a team like the 04 pats? They'd end up losing by 20.

and you know this how, since they never lost by close to 20 to any team.

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and you know this how, since they never lost by close to 20 to any team.

It would have been a great game but the 1999 Rams team was much better then the 2001 version. Warner was better, Faulk was younger and Vermiel was a much better HC then Martz and Martz was a much better OC then whoever was calling the plays for the 01 team.

Id say either team is a good choice but I;ll also say this...IF 2000 Baltimore had any type of real QB play, they get the nod. The best defense since the 85 Bears, a very good OL, terrific feature back, decent WRs, and an excellent HC. You put a Brady or Warner on that team and you have an all time great squad.

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and you know this how, since they never lost by close to 20 to any team.

I'll respond to this better when i can get to more web-pages (i.e. not at work). Off the top of my head i can't remember who was good that year, who they played, and what not.

The 04 Colts were exactly like that 99 ram team, although the rams D was a bit better (and yes i stress a bit, not by much). The Pats killed them when it mattered...sorry but the rams would suffer the same fate. i mean hell, they almost lost to a team that needed "the music city myricle" to get by the first round. Eddie George ran right down their throats (again i don't know yardage off hand), there is no way that Rams squad could have contained Dillon for less than 125 yards.

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The 04 Colts were exactly like that 99 ram team, although the rams D was a bit better (and yes i stress a bit, not by much). The Pats killed them when it mattered...sorry but the rams would suffer the same fate. i mean hell, they almost lost to a team that needed "the music city myricle" to get by the first round. Eddie George ran right down their throats (again i don't know yardage off hand), there is no way that Rams squad could have contained Dillon for less than 125 yards.

Your nuts

The 04' Colts were 29th in defense that year and the 99' Rams were 7th... (total yards)

The Rams had the best run D in the NFL in 99' and the pass D wasnt that bad either.

Bad choice to compare...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com

Look there first next time

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Your nuts

The 04' Colts were 29th in defense that year and the 99' Rams were 7th... (total yards)

The Rams had the best run D in the NFL in 99' and the pass D wasnt that bad either.

Bad choice to compare...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com

Look there first next time

Why do you suppose their run D was so good? Could it be attempts against? or that they were actually good at it?

In a one game playoff the Patriots beat them, and would win 7 out of 10 times.

I probably was thinking of the wrong Colts team, one of the years they had a serious shot at going undefeated they "suposedly" had a good defense. Turns out they coudln't stop the run when they ran into good teams. 99 Rams are the same damn thing, unfortunatly for the Pats they never got to play them with Belly as the coach.

Lastly, I am not a Pats fan, if Alk, or any other Pat fan think that I'm wrong here, i'll shut up, but watching that 04 team was ridiculous.

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Why do you suppose their run D was so good? Could it be attempts against? or that they were actually good at it?

In a one game playoff the Patriots beat them, and would win 7 out of 10 times.

I probably was thinking of the wrong Colts team, one of the years they had a serious shot at going undefeated they "suposedly" had a good defense. Turns out they coudln't stop the run when they ran into good teams. 99 Rams are the same damn thing, unfortunatly for the Pats they never got to play them with Belly as the coach.

Lastly, I am not a Pats fan, if Alk, or any other Pat fan think that I'm wrong here, i'll shut up, but watching that 04 team was ridiculous.

I'm with you.

The 1999 Rams went 13-3 playing a last place schedule after going 4-12 in 1998. The 2004 Pats went 14-2 playing a 1st place schedule after going 14-2 in 2003 and winning the Super Bowl.

Here is the playoff breakdown:

Rams:

Beat the 10-6 Vikings 49 to 37 at home

Beat the 11-5 Bucs 11 to 6 at home

Beat the 13-3 Titans 23 to 16 in the Super Bowl

Patriots:

Beat the 12-4 Colts 20 to 3 at home

Beat the 15-1 Steelers 41 to 27 on the road

Beat the 13-3 Eagles 24 to 21 in the Super Bowl

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Why do you suppose their run D was so good? Could it be attempts against? or that they were actually good at it?

In a one game playoff the Patriots beat them, and would win 7 out of 10 times.

I probably was thinking of the wrong Colts team, one of the years they had a serious shot at going undefeated they "suposedly" had a good defense. Turns out they coudln't stop the run when they ran into good teams. 99 Rams are the same damn thing, unfortunatly for the Pats they never got to play them with Belly as the coach.

Lastly, I am not a Pats fan, if Alk, or any other Pat fan think that I'm wrong here, i'll shut up, but watching that 04 team was ridiculous.

Huh? The Rams offense scored 526 points. Why are you allowing an excuse for the Colts defense giving up so many yards when the Rams put up similar points (technically they scored 5 pts more) & still held opponents offenses to jack squat comparitively. Because of all that passing against them, teams scored on Indy; by comparison, StL was intercepting 2 passes per game.

2004 Colts defense was 19th in points-against (351 pts)

1999 Rams defense was 4th in points-against (242 pts)

2004 Colts run defense gave up 4.64 ypc (30th in the NFL) and 2037 yds (24th in NFL)

1999 Rams defense gave up 3.52 ypc (7th in the NFL) and 1189 yds (1st in NFL)

2004 Colts pass defense gave up 26 TD's (19th in NFL) & was 24th in yards per attempt.

1999 Rams pass defense gave up 19 TD's (10th in NFL) & was 7th in yards per attempt.

I don't know how you can say their defenses were remotely similar in production. I can't find a single defensive category where they bettered the Rams, and in just about every meaningful category, Indy was ranked in the bottom half of the NFL.

Watching that '99 Rams team was just as "ridiculous" all season long & didn't get spanked by anyone. Even the Panthers, who averaged like 28ppg vs the rest of the league (#4 offense), scored 31 combined pts in two games vs StL.

Not to take anything really away from the '04 Pats b/c they were just awesome, but Pittsburgh did smack them around quite handily in the regular-season matchup (though NE did return the favor when it counted more, in the AFC Championship Game).

The team that started out 13-0 was the '05 Colts. But as good as they were, they were total paper tigers on defense. When they played an elite offense like the Bengals, Cincy pounced on their defense for 37 points. They scored 439 points that year (>5ppg less than StL in '99). Then they went 0-1 in the divisional playoff game & only held Pittsburgh to 21 points because Bettis fumbled on like the 3 yard-line late in the game. They still lost the game anyway & a team that didn't even reach the championship game can hardly be considered the best team of the past decade.

The '99 Rams couldn't stop the run? They had the friggin' #1 run defense in the NFL.

  • Charlie Garner had 1226 yds that year. They played SF twice & Garner was held to 52 & 77 yds respectively.
  • Eddie George had 1301 yds that year; StL held him to 68. In the superbowl he didn't reach 100 yards on a whopping 28 carries.
  • Duce Staley had 1263 yds that year; StL's BACKUPS held him to 44 yds.
  • Robert Smith & Leroy Hoard had >1500 yds in the reg season & the whole team didn't hit 90 yards vs StL in the playoffs.
  • Alstott & Dunn had >1500 yds in the reg season & were held to 74 vs StL

If they couldn't stop the run, you'd think ONE of these teams would've managed 100 rushing yards ONCE.

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Huh? The Rams offense scored 526 points. Why are you allowing an excuse for the Colts defense giving up so many yards when the Rams put up similar points (technically they scored 5 pts more) & still held opponents offenses to jack squat comparitively. Because of all that passing against them, teams scored on Indy; by comparison, StL was intercepting 2 passes per game.

2004 Colts defense was 19th in points-against (351 pts)

1999 Rams defense was 4th in points-against (242 pts)

2004 Colts run defense gave up 4.64 ypc (30th in the NFL) and 2037 yds (24th in NFL)

1999 Rams defense gave up 3.52 ypc (7th in the NFL) and 1189 yds (1st in NFL)

2004 Colts pass defense gave up 26 TD's (19th in NFL) & was 24th in yards per attempt.

1999 Rams pass defense gave up 19 TD's (10th in NFL) & was 7th in yards per attempt.

I don't know how you can say their defenses were remotely similar in production. I can't find a single defensive category where they bettered the Rams, and in just about every meaningful category, Indy was ranked in the bottom half of the NFL.

Watching that '99 Rams team was just as "ridiculous" all season long & didn't get spanked by anyone. Even the Panthers, who averaged like 28ppg vs the rest of the league (#4 offense), scored 31 combined pts in two games vs StL.

Not to take anything really away from the '04 Pats b/c they were just awesome, but Pittsburgh did smack them around quite handily in the regular-season matchup (though NE did return the favor when it counted more, in the AFC Championship Game).

The team that started out 13-0 was the '05 Colts. But as good as they were, they were total paper tigers on defense. When they played an elite offense like the Bengals, Cincy pounced on their defense for 37 points. They scored 439 points that year (>5ppg less than StL in '99). Then they went 0-1 in the divisional playoff game & only held Pittsburgh to 21 points because Bettis fumbled on like the 3 yard-line late in the game. They still lost the game anyway & a team that didn't even reach the championship game can hardly be considered the best team of the past decade.

The '99 Rams couldn't stop the run? They had the friggin' #1 run defense in the NFL.

  • Charlie Garner had 1226 yds that year. They played SF twice & Garner was held to 52 & 77 yds respectively.
  • Eddie George had 1301 yds that year; StL held him to 68. In the superbowl he didn't reach 100 yards on a whopping 28 carries.
  • Duce Staley had 1263 yds that year; StL's BACKUPS held him to 44 yds.
  • Robert Smith & Leroy Hoard had >1500 yds in the reg season & the whole team didn't hit 90 yards vs StL in the playoffs.
  • Alstott & Dunn had >1500 yds in the reg season & were held to 74 vs StL

If they couldn't stop the run, you'd think ONE of these teams would've managed 100 rushing yards ONCE.

(i made a mistake in colts' teams, i meant the 05, i think the colts D is pretty worthless if it had any other teams offense in the NFL, but they could hide that really well cause peyton was throwing tons of points on the board)

Your whole post is missing the point. by no means am i saying the 04 colts defense was as good. I'm saying opponents of the 04 Colts and the 99 rams had to do the same things to keep up. They had to pass all game, every game. there for Grant winstrom and dwight freeny are in full pass rush all game. which, as you know, helps the secondary. both teams had amazing offenses, which makes a good seconday that much better.

back to the point, there is just no way that rams squad beats the Patriots in a one game take all setting. The Rams couldn't do anything against a good (not great) buccs Defense. Put them up against Belly's 34? It would be a massacre.

As Gainzo said, the NE first place schedule, they had some monster teams to play, starting with Pitt. that D was in your face, and as you said, when it counted the Pats were even more 'in your face'.

The only thing i really agree with you on after seeing your stats, is that it could be a close game. Either way, the Pat's win.

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Your whole post is missing the point. by no means am i saying the 04 colts defense was as good. I'm saying opponents of the 04 Colts and the 99 rams had to do the same things to keep up. They had to pass all game, every game. there for Grant winstrom and dwight freeny are in full pass rush all game. which, as you know, helps the secondary. both teams had amazing offenses, which makes a good seconday that much better.

back to the point, there is just no way that rams squad beats the Patriots in a one game take all setting. The Rams couldn't do anything against a good (not great) buccs Defense. Put them up against Belly's 34? It would be a massacre.

The strength of the 3-4 is stopping the run. They didn't "massacre" the 2001 Rams; why would they "massacre" the one that was better?

What point did I miss?

"I probably was thinking of the wrong Colts team, one of the years they had a serious shot at going undefeated they "suposedly" had a good defense. Turns out they coudln't stop the run when they ran into good teams. 99 Rams are the same damn thing..."

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Let's look at the final records of the teams that the 1999 Rams played and the teams that the 2004 Patriots played.

Rams:

Ravens: 8-8

Falcons: 5-11

Bengals: 4-12

49ers*: 4-12

Falcons*: 5-11

Browns: 2-14

Titans: 13-3 (loss)

Lions: 8-8 (loss)

Panthers*: 8-8

Saints*: 3-13

Giants: 7-9

Bears: 6-10

Eagles: 5-11 (loss)

The Rams beat two teams that had 8 wins or more.

Patriots:

Colts: 12-4

Cards: 6-10

Bills*: 9-7

Dolphins*: 4-12 (one loss)

Seahawks: 9-7

Jets*: 10-6

Steelers: 15-1 (loss)

Rams: 8-8

Chiefs: 7-9

Ravens: 9-7

Browns: 4-12

Bengals: 8-8

49ers: 2-14

The Patriots beat 8 teams that had 8 or more wins.

In the Playoffs the 2004 Pats beat teams with a combined record of 40-8 while the 1999 Rams beat teams with a combined record of 34-14.

*Divisional opponent

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Opponents against 99 Rams

Rushing att- 338

Rush Yard - 1189

avg - 3.52

Opponents against 05 Colts

Rushing att -398

rush yard - 1762

avg - 4.43

Opponent rushing in 1999 against all teams

Rushing att - avg of about 420

its about 100 more attempts, you know as well as anyone that when you are coming back you have to pass more, rams always held leads. Had they ran into a team taht got out in front early, i'm saying they would not be a #1 rushing D anymore...maybe they'd be good, but they would be no where near as good as 04 NE.

New England 04 (against top tier opponents)

rush att -405

yards - 1572

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The strength of the 3-4 is stopping the run. They didn't "massacre" the 2001 Rams; why would they "massacre" the one that was better?

What point did I miss?

"I probably was thinking of the wrong Colts team, one of the years they had a serious shot at going undefeated they "suposedly" had a good defense. Turns out they coudln't stop the run when they ran into good teams. 99 Rams are the same damn thing..."

the 01 Pats were not talented. They had Law, and some linebacker to go with a rookie QB. the 04 pats were far better than that squad.

comparing that 01 to 04 pats is apples to oranges, some same players, but no where near that talent the 04 had.

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That is when I started watching football..

I would say that Denver team that beat the Jets..

They were loaded..

Elway, Davis, Sharpe, McCaffrey, Smith, Romanowski, A****er all in career years..

Yeah, that was a great team. It'sa a shame the Jets aren't that good. I think you should kill yourself and end the misery now!

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Did you know that idiot Romanowski used to go through his own turds by hand and have them analyzed for 'nutritional reasons'? HolyJesusGod, I hate that dirty punk for too many reasons to list. I'm sure there's cement in his skull cavity instead of a brain.

Yep, Traitor Bill not guilty for our implosion. It was the most bizarre chit I ever saw. No, not the one that got away, the one we GAVE away. You couldn't script it. And, I had to stomach looking at that square head Frankenstein Elway with that idiot look on his idiot face like it was all HIM. Thankless fraud, he should have sent every player on the Jets an individual thank you card that said, "I couldn't have done it without you!"

And the Jets would have SO beaten Atlanta. Whatever. I'm full of hives now.

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