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Jets could trade for 2nd pick


Jetme23
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Rhodes I would not trade and I don't think that Detroit would take just Vilma and the 25 for #2 overall, no way. Millen may be dumb but I don't think he is that dumb.

Either way, even if he is, Laveranues Coles would NOT be kept, I can guarentee you that.

Why wouldn't they keep Coles? Cotchery is fine, but he is not so great that he can't be relegated back to 3rd wr if we got a massive upgrade. It's not a need item, but I'd rather pick CJ than trade up there and then reach. Up there you have to go BAP and don't make the deal unless you have a love affair with somebody or a deal in place to trade back down to Carricker range.

The argument wasn't about Wins.

It was about WR's that can go up and get a ball, and be a precence in the red zone. cotch can do both, i'm not sure what stats you will use to say that he is not a good target.

You never actually answered who you put into the slot if you draft your G-Tech boy. If you are so concerned about Jet wins, maybe you would consider getting the D and O line to respectability.

You made a statement:

The idea is to have a QB that makes his Receivers look better, not the other way around.
Do you stand by it or not? That statement is what I am disputing, not the ability of Cotchery. I didn't get involved in your red zone arguement. I never even mentioned Cotchery. I don't give a **** who is in the slot. I care who makes the team better. I believe CJ would be the biggest upgrade in this draft and that's on a team without a RT. Fixing the lines should be priority 1, but it doesn't change the fact that's a bull**** statement and it is irrelevant who makes who look better, it only matters that points go on the board.
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Enough of this crap. We have a new HB, are talking to other FA's, and have a draft coming up. This is what we're here for. Next personal insult I see in this thread buys the offender some time off. End of discussion.

you're a poopyface! ;)

why do people act like chad is gonna be our starter past this year. clemens is gonna be the starter and just by being alive will have a stronger arm than chad.

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True but if our plan was to select Calvin Johnson, Laveranues Coles would be traded somewhere. He will not be a New York Jet in 2007 if the Jets move up to #2 and select Calvin Johnson.

That's the thing... I don't think the plan was to move up and select either CJ or Peterson. I think it was to move up to trade down and pick up more things.

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Trading Vilma AND Coles would be insane. I don't see anyway Mangini would do that. If we're gonna trade up I'd much rather it be for Alan Branch or Leon Hall, you know players at positions that are actual needs and not wasting time trying to improve a position that is one of our strongest. Either Branch or Hall, along with a few others would be a great addition to the D. Branch would solve the problem of not having a big NT to take up blockers in the middle and would free up LB'ers. If that happened it might be a possibility that D-Rob could be moved to DE, anybody think that would happen if we got an NT like that?

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Trading Vilma AND Coles would be insane. I don't see anyway Mangini would do that. If we're gonna trade up I'd much rather it be for Alan Branch or Leon Hall, you know players at positions that are actual needs and not wasting time trying to improve a position that is one of our strongest. Either Branch or Hall, along with a few others would be a great addition to the D. Branch would solve the problem of not having a big NT to take up blockers in the middle and would free up LB'ers. If that happened it might be a possibility that D-Rob could be moved to DE, anybody think that would happen if we got an NT like that?

Branch would be an end in the 3-4, not a NT. He's like 6'6/320, not 6'0/320. I've never seen a 6'6 NT. Ted Washington is close at 6'5, but he (conservatively) weighs 370.

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Branch would be an end in the 3-4, not a NT. He's like 6'6/320, not 6'0/320. I've never seen a 6'6 NT. Ted Washington is close at 6'5, but he (conservatively) weighs 370.

again your needle is still stuck on the measurables. have you seen alan branch. look at his big fat tummy. thats no DE fat. thats NT fat

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Branch would be an end in the 3-4, not a NT. He's like 6'6/320, not 6'0/320. I've never seen a 6'6 NT. Ted Washington is close at 6'5, but he (conservatively) weighs 370.

According to some scouting reports he is able to play both tackle and end in the 3-4 scheme and that his biggest strength is stuffing the run up the middle. They also put his weight at 330 if that makes a difference. Either way, trading Coles and Vilma would be ridiculous and I think people are going over the top with that one.

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According to some scouting reports he is able to play both tackle and end in the 3-4 scheme and that his biggest strength is stuffing the run up the middle. They also put his weight at 330 if that makes a difference. Either way, trading Coles and Vilma would be ridiculous and I think people are going over the top with that one.

324 lbs at the combine, so I was off by 4 lbs. 4 lbs plus the other 10+ that Mangini would sweat off him before July was over. Teams don't like NT's that tall because of leverage (unless they're 350-370 lbs, in which case lots of luck moving them).

Coles I'd be shocked if they moved. It's a giant cap hit and he's terrific.

Vilma's an excellent 4-3 MLB, which we don't employ very much. A pick that could be turned into Alan Branch would be more useful to the team than a player who, while in the 4-3, once made the pro-bowl as an alternate.

But I agree, there's somewhere between little and no chance Tannenbaum would move both of them in one trade.

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324 lbs at the combine, so I was off by 4 lbs. 4 lbs plus the other 10+ that Mangini would sweat off him before July was over. Teams don't like NT's that tall because of leverage (unless they're 350-370 lbs, in which case lots of luck moving them).

Coles I'd be shocked if they moved. It's a giant cap hit and he's terrific.

Vilma's an excellent 4-3 MLB, which we don't employ very much. A pick that could be turned into Alan Branch would be more useful to the team than a player who, while in the 4-3, once made the pro-bowl as an alternate.

But I agree, there's somewhere between little and no chance Tannenbaum would move both of them in one trade.

I don't think Vilma + our 25 pick will get us into a spot where we can be sure of getting Branch.

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I don't think Vilma + our 25 pick will get us into a spot where we can be sure of getting Branch.

And Ngata wasn't supposed to last until pick #12 last year. I thought we might take him at #4; to the Bills at #8 at the lowest.

Winston Justice was supposed to go around #10-#12; he lasted to round two. Youboty was supposed to be a marginal first-rounder & lasted to round 3. Lots more examples.

Vilma should carry the weight of around the #10-14 pick on his own. In the rumor with the Lions, he was carrying the weight of the #9 pick. Particularly being a sure-thing (no bust worries) in the 4-3 and under contract for 2 more years at $1M/per with the cost of FA's now.

Even still, I'd be plenty happy with Carriker also.

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And Ngata wasn't supposed to last until pick #12 last year. I thought we might take him at #4; to the Bills at #8 at the lowest.

Vilma should carry the weight of around the #10-14 pick on his own. In the rumor with the Lions, he was carrying the weight of the #9 pick. Particularly being a sure-thing (no bust worries) in the 4-3 and under contract for 2 more years at $1M/per with the cost of FA's now.

Agreed however would you trade into the top 14 for you him knowing that he could easily go in the top 10 then you've given up vilma and you don't have the guy you're traded up for...
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I personally dont think it wouldn't work out for us in trading Vilma, to me he seems worth much more than a 1st rd selection especially when we are giving up our 1st rd choice with the deal also, to me it seems like we would be losing out.

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Then take Chris Houston or Levi Brown. There isn't a shortage of talent at need-positions here.

If they end up missing out of Branch and draft a Jones then you've lost vilma and you don't have a defensive player to make up for it untill the late 2nd round. That might not work out too well.

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Can you imagine our OLine with Levi Brown anchoring the right side? Wow.:eek:

Chris Houston would be my favorite pick if not Alan Branch or Gaines Adams.

I was just lookin at some stuff and I think Gaines Adams would be a great pick, but I'd take Leon Hall before Houston too. Adams is most likely going to be a top-10 pick however and it seems like the Bills have a good chance of taking Hall so it depends how high the Jets are going to want to trade up. I'd be happy with somewhere in the teens because it would increase our chances of getting Carriker, whose stock seems to be rising and may be gone by 25.

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I was just lookin at some stuff and I think Gaines Adams would be a great pick, but I'd take Leon Hall before Houston too. Adams is most likely going to be a top-10 pick however and it seems like the Bills have a good chance of taking Hall so it depends how high the Jets are going to want to trade up. I'd be happy with somewhere in the teens because it would increase our chances of getting Carriker, whose stock seems to be rising and may be gone by 25.

No thanks on Hall. I know we are Michigan fans but he got burned way too much in the big games for me. I'll take Houston.

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I don't care who they are talking about but pick # 25 and any one of our defensive players in exchange for the # 2 pick in the draft is a steal. I think that D-Rob or Rhodes might be the player that Detroit would want but it could be Vilma as well.

Pick # 2 is absolutely huge. We could trade down from there to any other spot in the top ten and get extra picks to fill our holes. If we did pull this off, I would mov down to a pick no higher than # 6 and no lower than # 10. We could get a real star on our team and get better in a hurry.

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This whole thing seemed to be centered around grabbing Peterson, as I dont see the Jets trading up for a WR when they just gave Cotch an extension. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. After now acquiring Jones, I dont see this happening at all.

However, I could see the Jets packaging Vilma + a 2nd and 3rd rd pick to move up in the early teens or late top 10, maybe targeting a guy like Alan Branch or Gaines Adams.

If Jonathan Vilma was in this draft, where would he go? Top 15, easily.

But that doesnt mean he has the value of a top 15 pick - I honestly feel he is not capable of fetching us an even swap for a top 15 pick. Definetly a 1st rd catch, mid to late, but top 15? I dunno.

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This whole thing seemed to be centered around grabbing Peterson, as I dont see the Jets trading up for a WR when they just gave Cotch an extension. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. After now acquiring Jones, I dont see this happening at all.

However, I could see the Jets packaging Vilma + a 2nd and 3rd rd pick to move up in the early teens or late top 10, maybe targeting a guy like Alan Branch or Gaines Adams.

If Jonathan Vilma was in this draft, where would he go? Top 15, easily.

But that doesnt mean he has the value of a top 15 pick - I honestly feel he is not capable of fetching us an even swap for a top 15 pick. Definetly a 1st rd catch, mid to late, but top 15? I dunno.

We don't need Peterson anymore. The Patsies drafted Richard Seymor at # 6 overall. If we move up to # 2 look for a pick on the DL.

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This whole thing seemed to be centered around grabbing Peterson, as I dont see the Jets trading up for a WR when they just gave Cotch an extension. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. After now acquiring Jones, I dont see this happening at all.

However, I could see the Jets packaging Vilma + a 2nd and 3rd rd pick to move up in the early teens or late top 10, maybe targeting a guy like Alan Branch or Gaines Adams.

If Jonathan Vilma was in this draft, where would he go? Top 15, easily.

But that doesnt mean he has the value of a top 15 pick - I honestly feel he is not capable of fetching us an even swap for a top 15 pick. Definetly a 1st rd catch, mid to late, but top 15? I dunno.

I disagree on this. I think Vilma's trade value is very high. In the 4-3:

2004 DROY

2005 Pro-Bowl (as an alternate, but who's counting)

2006 Teams can rationalize this as a 1-time off-year b/c he was out of position in the 3-4 (which is the truth anyway)

With another (relatively) down year, and with 1 year less on his contract, Vilma's trade value won't be nearly as high. Do not discount that he is locked in for 2 more years making (in this market) peanuts for a guy who could again be a pro-bowler in the 4-3, and at worst is a SURE THING in the 4-3. ZERO bust potential and for the next 2 years has a lower cap # than a top-15 draft pick.

At worst, I think Carolina (pick #14) might part with their pick. Morgan is finished if he has any hopes of remembering his own kids' names 3 years from now. At best, he's unreliable no matter how talented he is. And that would be even-up; WITHOUT parting with any of our own picks.

#14

#25

#57/59 (can't remember which off the top of my head)

#63

#88-ish

Now have fun picking players who will have more of an impact on our 3-4 defense than Vilma. There is more than one. Plus, you are kidding yourselves if you think we're extending him after his current deal is up. After 3 consecutive non-pro bowl seasons in the 3-4, we won't get anywhere near a top-10 pick & probably not even a late first-rounder. We were lucky to get #29 for Abraham and he had THREE pro-bowls under his belt in the previous 5 seasons. The difference between Abe last year & Vilma this year is that Abraham required a new $45-50M deal. Vilma requires nothing from his new team for a minimum of 1 year. They could even let him play out the 2 years left on his contract & then franchise him.

Point is, he's a LOT more valuable to someone else than he is to us.

I think this point has occurred to Tannenbaum. It's the only explanation I can come up with for reaching for Schlegel, who is so much the opposite of Vilma (30 lbs bigger, not nearly as fast, etc), in early round 3 last year. Now Schlegel clearly doesn't have Vilma's innate talent, but it speaks to the type of ILB'ers they are looking for (at least in terms of size & brute strength). It's why both trade "rumors" - with Washington AND Detroit - featured him as the key player we would trade (no one else has enough value to think they'd carry that weight in a trade except Rhodes who we're allegedly trying to extend).

That's another thing. Supposedly, one of the players they supposedly wanted to lock up long-term (other than Cotchery & Hobson) was Rhodes. Meanwhile, Rhodes has the same amount of time left on his contract as Vilma (2 years). Yet we've heard absolutely nothing from the FO about wanting to extend Vilma. Why? Once we give him a SB he becomes untradable because of the cap hit.

Vilma is most definitely on the trading block as we speak. I don't think we'll move him for just anything, as it would be a PR disaster, but as soon as a top-15 pick gets offered our way I think Tannenbaum will grab it. JMO.

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If you could trade Vilma for Patrick Willis would you do it?

Definitely not.

The only way I'd trade JV for a top pick is if the FO has decided to take Calvin Johnson. He is a franchise player. They could then trade Coles for a LB or a pick for a LB if they decided to go that way. If they trade JV for a top pick and dont take CJ, I'd be very disappointed.

Otherwise, keep JV for another season, and see how he does with a better DL. If he still doesnt pan out in the 3-4, he will still have very high value to a 4-3 team next year.

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the transcripts from Mike T's PC showed pretty much what the plan is and has been all-along;have the roster set so you don't HAVE to try and draft for need-that's why I can actually see us moving Vilma and taking Calvin Johnson-we would presumably still have Coles and Cotchery(since Vilma plus a pick is IMO the only way up the board) and we wouldn't be drafting to fill a spot...I still like Carriker though and Florida State had some fast as hell defensive players that are coming out

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Definitely not.

The only way I'd trade JV for a top pick is if the FO has decided to take Calvin Johnson. He is a franchise player. They could then trade Coles for a LB or a pick for a LB if they decided to go that way. If they trade JV for a top pick and dont take CJ, I'd be very disappointed.

Otherwise, keep JV for another season, and see how he does with a better DL. If he still doesnt pan out in the 3-4, he will still have very high value to a 4-3 team next year.

'Cane, I agree if they get a top pick they have to take Calvin Johnson. The (Madden-weblog) deal for #2 was Vilma & #25. According to Sperm's arbitrary analysis Vilma alone is worth a top 15 pick. Willis should go in the 10-15 range and should be a solid 3-4 ILB. That's why I think the question becomes Vilma v. Patrick Willis, though I'm sure most would prefer Carriker.

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If you could trade Vilma for Patrick Willis would you do it?

Unless it was the last hole on the team, with no one to fill it, I wouldn't take an ILB for the 3-4 with a top-15 pick. A MLB in the 4-3 is different.

Much bigger (and doubly expensive in FA) holes at CB & OL to use a #10-15 pick on an ILB.

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Unless it was the last hole on the team, with no one to fill it, I wouldn't take an ILB for the 3-4 with a top-15 pick. A MLB in the 4-3 is different.

Much bigger (and doubly expensive in FA) holes at CB & OL to use a #10-15 pick on an ILB.

Or, you can think in terms of potential impact rather than filling holes. They may really like a guy like Jarvis Moss - who's stock is rising and will likely go in the top 15 - to play OLB opposite Brian Thomas - and move Hobson to the inside (for now).

Vilma for a CB, even a top one, is a very risky proposition. NFL rules make it hard to cover people, no matter how fast and/or skilled you are. And I dont see the Jets moving up to take a RT.

IMO.

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Or, you can think in terms of potential impact rather than filling holes. They may really like a guy like Jarvis Moss - who's stock is rising and will likely go in the top 15 - to play OLB opposite Brian Thomas - and move Hobson to the inside (for now).

Vilma for a CB, even a top one, is a very risky proposition. NFL rules make it hard to cover people, no matter how fast and/or skilled you are. And I dont see the Jets moving up to take a RT.

IMO.

I didn't see the Jets moving up in round 2 to grab Kellen Clemens either.

There are no bust-free positions in the draft. Personally, I think we're going to try to get a cost-effective FA at CB if one of the remaining guys' demands go down.

I do think they saw first-hand how:

(1) Absent a true stud NT and two above-average DE's (none of which are on the Jets), Vilma is not a great fit here.

(2) OL is mega-important; even playmakers need a little wiggle-room. Particularly if Vilma is moved (which is still less likely than keeping him), I would be shocked if they don't go after a stud draftee for RT or guard. Even if we land Colombo, I think they'll take a guard. At best, Kendall can be relied upon for 1 more season and neither he nor Moore give us the push inside that a dominant (non-zone-blocking) running game needs.

I agree that CB is always a risky pick. But considering that the alternatives are to either pray that we strike oil with a later pick or paying through the nose for a FA, it is an option. And after the top couple of prospects, it becomes even riskier.

I'd rather take one of the two-best at CB or OT or the best OG than the 2nd or 3rd best OLB. Unless they think they've seen a lot they dislike from Clemens in practices, with our round 1-2 picks we're not touching: QB, HB, WR, C, LT, or NT (since there really isn't one). And probably not SS, FB (too early), TE, or DE (since we just gave one a $20M contract). So what does that leave us to choose from? RT, OG, CB, OLB, and (if Vilma or Barton are moved) ILB. My prediction: OG & CB if we land Colombo. My two favorite are Houston & Blalock. Doesn't mean it will be Tannenbaum's favorite by a long shot.

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I didn't see the Jets moving up in round 2 to grab Kellen Clemens either.

There are no bust-free positions in the draft. Personally, I think we're going to try to get a cost-effective FA at CB if one of the remaining guys' demands go down.

I do think they saw first-hand how:

(1) Absent a true stud NT and two above-average DE's (none of which are on the Jets), Vilma is not a great fit here.

(2) OL is mega-important; even playmakers need a little wiggle-room. Particularly if Vilma is moved (which is still less likely than keeping him), I would be shocked if they don't go after a stud draftee for RT or guard. Even if we land Colombo, I think they'll take a guard. At best, Kendall can be relied upon for 1 more season and neither he nor Moore give us the push inside that a dominant (non-zone-blocking) running game needs.

I agree that CB is always a risky pick. But considering that the alternatives are to either pray that we strike oil with a later pick or paying through the nose for a FA, it is an option. And after the top couple of prospects, it becomes even riskier.

I'd rather take one of the two-best at CB or OT or the best OG than the 2nd or 3rd best OLB. Unless they think they've seen a lot they dislike from Clemens in practices, with our round 1-2 picks we're not touching: QB, HB, WR, C, LT, or NT (since there really isn't one). And probably not SS, FB (too early), TE, or DE (since we just gave one a $20M contract). So what does that leave us to choose from? RT, OG, CB, OLB, and (if Vilma or Barton are moved) ILB. My prediction: OG & CB if we land Colombo. My two favorite are Houston & Blalock. Doesn't mean it will be Tannenbaum's favorite by a long shot.

I agree with everything you wrote. I think Blalock might be there at #25, if not then Grubbs or Kalil (who played C in college). But to get Houston they would have to move up. He might be the #1 CB prospect in the draft. I think that if the Jets trade Vilma it will be to move up and get his replacement (ie, move Hobson to ILB and draft a serious pass rush OLB prospect) or to get a stud DL. I would have thought Carriker to be the guy but I now think they are satisfied with Kimo/Coleman at DE for at least 2007. In any event, because of NFL rules that restrict pass defenders and the Jets dire need for a pass rusher I dont see them moving up in the draft to take an OL or CB. I see it at #25 but not at, say #14.

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