Good read on Phillip Hughes with comment on Ohlendorf

[madmike1]

We're gonna have to continue this when i get back if it's even worth it. I'm off to Tampa.

[Thor99]

I'm off to Tampa.

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sharrow]

Well, I don't believe that. I think you thought Villone was better, and then just got backed into the different role position cause you couldn't defend Villone being a better pitcher than Gonzo. Anyway, turns out Villone wasn't so good at that setup role anyway considering he couldn't handle that workload either.

[AFJF]

Well, I don't believe that. I think you thought Villone was better, and then just got backed into the different role position cause you couldn't defend Villone being a better pitcher than Gonzo. Anyway, turns out Villone wasn't so good at that setup role anyway considering he couldn't handle that workload either.

Mad Mike does more backpedaling than a CB trying to keep up with a WR. He flat out said Villone is better than Gonzo and now he's trying to run away and say he was misunderstood. Absolutely ZERO credibility.

[madmike1]

Mad Mike does more backpedaling than a CB trying to keep up with a WR. He flat out said Villone is better than Gonzo and now he's trying to run away and say he was misunderstood. Absolutely ZERO credibility.

If you go back and read that thread i made it pretty clear. But thats ok you just want to put words in my mouth and there is really nothing i can do about it.

[AFJF]

If you go back and read that thread i made it pretty clear. But thats ok you just want to put words in my mouth and there is really nothing i can do about it.

backpedal........backpedal.........backpedal

[madmike1]

I hope everyone enjoyed Boston bombing Ohlendorf, I certenly enjoyed it live.

[AFJF]

I hope everyone enjoyed Boston bombing Ohlendorf, I certenly enjoyed it live.

Of course you did. You wouldn't give a damn if the Yankees went winless on the season as long as it proves a point you were trying to make. Some fan you are.

[Barton]

I hope everyone enjoyed Boston bombing Ohlendorf, I certenly enjoyed it live.

He's got good stuff.

[AFJF]

He's got good stuff.

That's what I've been hearing and reading from everybody. Nobody saying he's a future Cy Young candidate, but nobody really saying he's "only pitched well because he's 24 in AA" or "he's not even a prospect"

[madmike1]

Of course you did. You wouldn't give a damn if the Yankees went winless on the season as long as it proves a point you were trying to make. Some fan you are.

I will be proven right about the Johnson trade, I will be proven right about the joke Mintgarbagewicz signing and i will be proven right about bringing the useless Cairo back but i probably won't enjoy it that much...

[AFJF]

I will be proven right about the Johnson trade, I will be proven right about the joke Mintgarbagewicz signing and i will be proven right about bringing the useless Cairo back but i probably won't enjoy it that much...

Right...as if it would matter if you were wrong on any of the three. You'll just do your little "no you didn't understand" or the "that's not what I meant" act like you do every other time you're wrong. Of course you won't forget to throw in your famous "lol, I'm smarter than all of you..lol"

[mbn007]

I will be proven right about the Johnson trade, I will be proven right about the joke Mintgarbagewicz signing and i will be proven right about bringing the useless Cairo back but i probably won't enjoy it that much...

If you are still against the kids the yankees received for Randy, you will not be proven right.

Plain and simple. It was a solid return for a guy who literally lit up the nights in New York last year.

[AFJF]

If you are still against the kids the yankees received for Randy, you will not be proven right.

Plain and simple. It was a solid return for a guy who literally lit up the nights in New York last year.

I think it all depends on what people expected/wanted in the Randy deal. Persoanlly I feel that myself and countless other posters have been proven right. Several of us said "if the Yankees can dump RJs salary it will be a good move no matter what they get in return" I was on board with that feeling and IMO we've already been proven right. Dumping RJ NO MATTER WHAT WE GOT BACK was a good move. No matter how much MadMike loved RJ and his 5+ ERA, aching back and whiney attitude it doesn't make him a good pitcher. He was being paid about five times what he's worth. Already a great move if none of the kids they got never sees a day in the bigs.

[AFJF]

If you are still against the kids the yankees received for Randy, you will not be proven right.

Plain and simple. It was a solid return for a guy who literally lit up the nights in New York last year.

Not lit up mbn...unlucky

[madmike1]

Not lit up mbn...unlucky

Yes because it HAS to be one of the other. There is no room for a more nuanced opinion is there?

[Thor99]

Yes because it HAS to be one of the other. There is no room for a more nuanced opinion is there?

You're learning. Leave it as vague as possible. Much easier to backpedal that way.

[madmike1]

You're learning. Leave it as vague as possible. Much easier to backpedal that way.

I'm not backpedaling at all. Was Johnson great last year? No. But was he so bad that he should've been given away for NOTHING? NO. And I've never really said anything different from that.

[AFJF]

You're learning. Leave it as vague as possible. Much easier to backpedal that way.

:rl:

[madmike1]

You're learning. Leave it as vague as possible. Much easier to backpedal that way.

Pleast tell me how i backpedaled on the johnson trade.

[mbn007]

I'm not backpedaling at all. Was Johnson great last year? No. But was he so bad that he should've been given away for NOTHING? NO. And I've never really said anything different from that.

If the Yankees gave him away for nothing, you would have a point.

However, the kids acquired will make this a robbery in a couple of years.

[madmike1]

If the Yankees gave him away for nothing, you would have a point.

However, the kids acquired will make this a robbery in a couple of years.

They got a mediocre prospect who's not on ANY top 100 list in Ohlendorf, a 25 year old who throws 88 MPH and got bombed in the AFL last year, a utility man who makes an error every time he plays and a redundant middle man. That = Bad trade. Just because you get 4 players 3 of whom are under 26 doesn't mean they have any real value.

The yankees did arizona (a team that has screwed them over in the past) a huge unnecessary favor.

[Barton]

They got a mediocre prospect who's not on ANY top 100 list in Ohlendorf, a 25 year old who throws 88 MPH and got bombed in the AFL last year, a utility man who makes an error every time he plays and a redundant middle man. That = Bad trade. Just because you get 4 players 3 of whom are under 26 doesn't mean they have any real value.

The yankees did arizona (a team that has screwed them over in the past) a huge unnecessary favor.

88 mph lol.

Randy Johnson was an addition by subtraction. We also cleared alot of valuable space with his contract off the boks, acquiring a bullpen arm and a solid pitching prospect.

[mbn007]

They got a mediocre prospect who's not on ANY top 100 list in Ohlendorf, a 25 year old who throws 88 MPH and got bombed in the AFL last year, a utility man who makes an error every time he plays and a redundant middle man. That = Bad trade. Just because you get 4 players 3 of whom are under 26 doesn't mean they have any real value.

The yankees did arizona (a team that has screwed them over in the past) a huge unnecessary favor.

Unlike Villone, or just about anyone else, Vizcaino CAN pitch every day. And he won't lose volocity at the end of the season. He alone is worth Randy, the Randy who pitched in 2006 for the Yankees, the Randy who got bombed almost every time out, the Randy who is past 43, and coming off back surgery.

Olnesdorf is a prospect, and was highly rated in Arizona's farm System, which is a pretty good one. There are thousand's of players not in a top 100 list, means nothing.

Jackson had his mechanics drastically adjusted last year. he is a work in progress, but has shown improvements after his mechanics were changed.

Alberto is a SS, and a great one. Perhaps you should have seen him a bit this ST. He is not a 3B, and I believe his errors were at positions other than SS. But any ranking of minor league infielders has him near the top of the list, defensively.

[madmike1]

88 mph lol.

Randy Johnson was an addition by subtraction. We also cleared alot of valuable space with his contract off the boks, acquiring a bullpen arm and a solid pitching prospect.

Steven Jackson throws 88 MPH. And Barton if a pitcher is a SOLID prospect then he would at least show up on up ONE top 100 prospect list. Ohlendorf isn't on ANY Of them.

[AFJF]

Steven Jackson throws 88 MPH. And Barton if a pitcher is a SOLID prospect then he would at least show up on up ONE top 100 prospect list. Ohlendorf isn't on ANY Of them.

Thank you very much. It is statments like these that continue to show how and why you have zero credibility as a poster in this forum. When you are talking about thousands of minor league players you only see the cream of the crop on your beloved top 100 lists. "Solid" prospects need not apply to make it on lists of the elite prospects.

[madmike1]

Unlike Villone, or just about anyone else, Vizcaino CAN pitch every day. And he won't lose volocity at the end of the season. He alone is worth Randy, the Randy who pitched in 2006 for the Yankees, the Randy who got bombed almost every time out, the Randy who is past 43, and coming off back surgery.

Olnesdorf is a prospect, and was highly rated in Arizona's farm System, which is a pretty good one. There are thousand's of players not in a top 100 list, means nothing.

Jackson had his mechanics drastically adjusted last year. he is a work in progress, but has shown improvements after his mechanics were changed.

Alberto is a SS, and a great one. Perhaps you should have seen him a bit this ST. He is not a 3B, and I believe his errors were at positions other than SS. But any ranking of minor league infielders has him near the top of the list, defensively.

The yankees could have Burney or Britton in the same role as Vizcaino and they would be fine. He's completely redundant.

You know who rated Ohlendorf highly? THE YANKEES. Thats it. NO ONE was talking about him as a legit prospect in baseball circles before the yankees traded for him. You're right about Arizona's farm system which makes it all the more insane that the yankees made a trade with a team with that good a farm system and came away with ZERO upside.

If you're a 25 year old "work in progress" who has to start the season in AA chances are you're worthless. And Jackson IS worthless.

Gonzalez's CEILING is a utility infielder. Thats not a guy you need to trade for. Or what farm systems are for producing.

[madmike1]

Thank you very much. It is statments like these that continue to show how and why you have zero credibility as a poster in this forum. When you are talking about thousands of minor league players you only see the cream of the crop on your beloved top 100 lists. "Solid" prospects need not apply to make it on lists of the elite prospects.

There are not 100 elite prospects there are about 20 of those maybe less. Instead of keep SAYING that i have zero credability how about you use FACTS in your argument? That would be a welcome change.

[AFJF]

There are not 100 elite prospects there are about 20 of those maybe less. Instead of keep SAYING that i have zero credability how about you use FACTS in your argument? That would be a welcome change.

because you dispute facts like RJs 5.00+ ERA, age, ineffectiveness since coming to the AL with garbage like "no, but he was unlucky" how the hells that for refusing to use facts?

So between "Randy Johnson is unlucky" and "Ron Villone is better than Mike Gonzalez" combined with your endless whining about how bad a bunch of players are who you've never actually seen in person...I mean, you would have to work real hard to have less credibility than what you have now. Keep it up though, you're on a hell of a pace.

[madmike1]

because you dispute facts like RJs 5.00+ ERA, age, ineffectiveness since coming to the AL with garbage like "no, but he was unlucky" how the hells that for refusing to use facts?

Except i don't say anything like that. I just understand enough to know that ERA is a PRODUCT of other things and not of itself. For you pitchers are either great or garbage. There is no room in your logic for any kind of nuanced and complete evaluation of players. You saw him pitch a few bad games and give up some homers so according to you he's worthless and you would've traded him for a bag of balls (which is basically what the yankees did.)

If he was so done why were there 3 teams lining up to trade for him? I guess they didn't think he was completely shot huh?

[AFJF]

Except i don't say anything like that. I just understand enough to know that ERA is a PRODUCT of other things and not of itself. For you pitchers are either great or garbage. There is no room in your logic for any kind of nuanced and complete evaluation of players. You saw him pitch a few bad games and give up some homers so according to you he's worthless and you would've traded him for a bag of balls (which is basically what the yankees did.)

If he was so done why were there 3 teams lining up to trade for him? I guess they didn't think he was completely shot huh?

I think they know he's shot, but they rely on having fans like you who can't see that and might still come out to the ballpark to watch him pitch. Couple that with the fact that he's in the light hitting NL and he should be better. I LOVE how you skew the facts too. You tell me to use facts and then say things like "a few bad games" instead of stating the fact that he gave up five or more earned runs THIRTEEN times. You call 13 bad outings (Including five outings of 6 runs or more) "a few" and then you say he gave up "some homers" yeah..how bout 28 for "a few". Like I said dude, keep it going. What little credibility you have dwindles away as you defend a guy who was HORRIBLE last season with "bad luck" as your reasoning. I guess he was unlucky that the walls in the stadium weren't 100 feet deeper.

[madmike1]

I think they know he's shot, but they rely on having fans like you who can't see that and might still come out to the ballpark to watch him pitch. Couple that with the fact that he's in the light hitting NL and he should be better. I LOVE how you skew the facts too. You tell me to use facts and then say things like "a few bad games" instead of stating the fact that he gave up five or more earned runs THIRTEEN times. You call 13 bad outings (Including five outings of 6 runs or more) "a few" and then you say he gave up "some homers" yeah..how bout 28 for "a few". Like I said dude, keep it going. What little credibility you have dwindles away as you defend a guy who was HORRIBLE last season with "bad luck" as your reasoning. I guess he was unlucky that the walls in the stadium weren't 100 feet deeper.

So teams were going after him because they though he was done. Yeah that makes sense... The fact that he had a 380 BABIP with men on is one of the reasons why he had 13 games with 5+ runs allowed. Does that mean that he should've had a 1.00 ERA? No. Does it mean he was great last year? No. Does it mean he will revert to the old Randy Johnson this year? No. But i never said any of those things. What i said is that he wasn't nearly as bad as his ERA would have you believe and that with a normalization of his luck this year combined with the fact that he'll be in better health after his surgery makes him worth more then the garbage the yankees got for him.

[AFJF]

So teams were going after him because they though he was done. Yeah that makes sense... The fact that he had a 380 BABIP with men on is one of the reasons why he had 13 games with 5+ runs allowed. Does that mean that he should've had a 1.00 ERA? No. Does it mean he was great last year? No. Does it mean he will revert to the old Randy Johnson this year? No. But i never said any of those things. What i said is that he wasn't nearly as bad as his ERA would have you believe and that with a normalization of his luck this year combined with the fact that he'll be in better health after his surgery makes him worth more then the garbage the yankees got for him.

yes, that is what you've said all along and that is exactly why you have no credibility. any fan that knows a thing about baseball who watched Randy Johnson in pinstripes will tell you he was horrible. You use numbers that make you feel like you're smarter than everybody else but I've got news for you... Randy Johnson was terrible in the Bronx and you're not the smartest person on this board. Sorry to be the one to have to tell you but that's just the way it is. Carry on...my work is done here.

[madmike1]

yes, that is what you've said all along and that is exactly why you have no credibility. any fan that knows a thing about baseball who watched Randy Johnson in pinstripes will tell you he was horrible. You use numbers that make you feel like you're smarter than everybody else but I've got news for you... Randy Johnson was terrible in the Bronx and you're not the smartest person on this board. Sorry to be the one to have to tell you but that's just the way it is. Carry on...my work is done here.

The real arrogance is the fact that you'll completely ignore valid information because god forbid you might be wrong. he's terrible because you say so and anything that looks at his season in a different way must be wrong because they disagree with the real person who thinks they know more then everyone. YOU. You project your character flaws on me pal.

[AFJF]

The real arrogance is the fact that you'll completely ignore valid information because god forbid you might be wrong. he's terrible because you say so and anything that looks at his season in a different way must be wrong because they disagree with the real person who thinks they know more then everyone. YOU. You project your character flaws on me pal.

LOL...and you call me a pompus ass? We've been through this before genius. Over 80% of fans polled on ESPN.com said this was a great trade for the Yankees. Then there are the 20% who think they're smarter than everyone. Me. Right, I'm the one that thinks I know everything so Im constatntly getting threads locked for making personal attacks and calling every person who disagrees with me a retard or pompus ass. You have a lot to learn about baseball Mike, and a whole lot more growing up to do.