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Maxman
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People are going to hate hearing this, but it is another simple case of economics- Supply and demand. And Woody has the leverage.

Very simple-Woody has a product. It is not oxygen, it is not milk, so there is nothing that is life sustaining in his product. That pretty much makes it an open market item, subject to consumer want.

The consumer want is suggested by tens of thousands on a waiting list for his product. Some have been there decades.

No one is forced to pay Woody his $$. There is no guillotine being held over one's head. You can walk away and not pay him a red cent.

Listen, if I had hundreds of millions tied up in debt with a sports franchise, damn right I would try to make money back on my investment. Particularly if I know people are going to pay it.

I hate to take this side, but it is the way it is. Like it or leave it.

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People are going to hate hearing this, but it is another simple case of economics- Supply and demand. And Woody has the leverage.

Very simple-Woody has a product. It is not oxygen, it is not milk, so there is nothing that is life sustaining in his product. That pretty much makes it an open market item, subject to consumer want.

The consumer want is suggested by tens of thousands on a waiting list for his product. Some have been there decades.

No one is forced to pay Woody his $$. There is no guillotine being held over one's head. You can walk away and not pay him a red cent.

Listen, if I had hundreds of millions tied up in debt with a sports franchise, damn right I would try to make money back on my investment. Particularly if I know people are going to pay it.

I hate to take this side, but it is the way it is. Like it or leave it.

Scott --

I know what you are saying. And you are right. But I wrote about this a few weeks back. I think your like it or leave it part is telling.

There is a point at which people will leave it. This is the 1st year that I got my invoice that left me undecided. I am sure I will renew. BUT -- everyone has a breaking point.

Woody knows that there is a waiting list. He knows that for everyone that cancels, another will take his or her spot. Someday though he may look at the stadium and see it filled with Corporate seats. I wrote about this, in a good year that is not a problem. People will still come to the game. The stadium won't be as loud. But he isn't making money because of the noise.

When they go 4 and 12 -- what will he be left with? The corporate crowd will find better things to do with their time. Empty stadiums = no parking, no concessions.

Granted this is a very small part of the equation. But as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for! There is a breaking point here. I fear it is closer than they realize!

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yeah to speak to what SD is saying, im not sure we as Jets fans have the right to cheap tickets.

I don't think anyone is looking for cheap tickets, but at least give us a return on our investment. If every investment I made yielded dividends like my Jets tickets over the past 20 years, I would be eating dog food when I retire. If we had the Pats recent track record, then this thread would not exist andJetMo would not have written the article. I just want my money's worth.

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Scott --

I know what you are saying. And you are right. But I wrote about this a few weeks back. I think your like it or leave it part is telling.

There is a point at which people will leave it. This is the 1st year that I got my invoice that left me undecided. I am sure I will renew. BUT -- everyone has a breaking point.

Woody knows that there is a waiting list. He knows that for everyone that cancels, another will take his or her spot. Someday though he may look at the stadium and see it filled with Corporate seats. I wrote about this, in a good year that is not a problem. People will still come to the game. The stadium won't be as loud. But he isn't making money because of the noise.

When they go 4 and 12 -- what will he be left with? The corporate crowd will find better things to do with their time. Empty stadiums = no parking, no concessions.

Granted this is a very small part of the equation. But as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for! There is a breaking point here. I fear it is closer than they realize!

Max, even if you did decide not to take them then there will be someone else that will.

Like I said a few weeks back it will be intersting to see what happens when the new stadium gets built and you have to fork over 5-10 grand in PSL's just to buy the tickets.

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I think Dolan has managed to demonstrate that you can drive a product pretty deeply into the ground in New York before you fail to fill the stadium. Or in his case "PRODUCTS" (plural). Even then, if you put on a three game mini winning streak against bums and the fans are back again in full throat.

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Scott --

I know what you are saying. And you are right. But I wrote about this a few weeks back. I think your like it or leave it part is telling.

There is a point at which people will leave it. This is the 1st year that I got my invoice that left me undecided. I am sure I will renew. BUT -- everyone has a breaking point.

Woody knows that there is a waiting list. He knows that for everyone that cancels, another will take his or her spot. Someday though he may look at the stadium and see it filled with Corporate seats. I wrote about this, in a good year that is not a problem. People will still come to the game. The stadium won't be as loud. But he isn't making money because of the noise.

When they go 4 and 12 -- what will he be left with? The corporate crowd will find better things to do with their time. Empty stadiums = no parking, no concessions.

Granted this is a very small part of the equation. But as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for! There is a breaking point here. I fear it is closer than they realize!

I agree, it is a dangerous game to play, and you have to be careful how hard you push.

But, right now the NFL is the hottest sport entertainment ticket to be had, and they are just cashing in on that. The new stadium will only help propel that.

His danger point is not real near, because of that tasty stadium treat that will carry him for 3-4 years at least.

I understand what you are saying, just don't expect the owners to.

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unless you are selling them, Jets tickets really aren't an investment they are more like an entertainment expense.

I was trying to make the analogy between forking over cash and receiving something in return. While I've always enjoyed going to the games, very rarely have I (we) received the big payoff in return and never the ultimate payoff. I would really like to attend an AFC championship game at home and all the excitement, hope and anticipation that comes along with it. After over 20 years of paying for tix, I have never had that feeling and the cost of not having that feeling goes up constantly. Raise prices if you must, but give me my damn money's worth so I don't feel like I am being fleeced.

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I was trying to make the analogy between forking over cash and receiving something in return. While I've always enjoyed going to the games, very rarely have I (we) received the big payoff in return and never the ultimate payoff. I would really like to attend an AFC championship game at home and all the excitement, hope and anticipation that comes along with it. After over 20 years of paying for tix, I have never had that feeling and the cost of not having that feeling goes up constantly. Raise prices if you must, but give me my damn money's worth so I don't feel like I am being fleeced.

Sames as going to a movie, there is no implicit declaration that the product will be any good.

Buy at your own risk.

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Good article, JetMo, and a good counter-post by SD.

Max, if you thought twice about it, but renewed anyway, then Woody has stopped short of the breaking point. For now.

Cane --

If I renew he has stopped short of MY breaking point. But I am living large. By some accounts in recent days my net worth has been valued at twenty four thousand dollars.

The common man simply won't have the same boiling point that I do. Us Webmasters are cut from a different cloth, lol. (the responses to that last line should be classic).

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Sames as going to a movie, there is no implicit declaration that the product will be any good.

Buy at your own risk.

Maybe so, but taking that risk and being rewarded once in that 20 years is not too much to ask. Think of it from a PR standpoint, you keep selling me crap and continually raise the price. You really don't care what I as the customer have to say because if I give up my seats, there are 20,000 people in line waiting to buy them. OK, Woody has me by the balls, but is that the right thing to do? I don't think so, it's taking supply and demand to the extreme. I love the Jets and will always continue to follow them (even attending games in other cities) but I think Woody is a money grubbing bastard that is on a par with the Dolans's.

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Cane --

If I renew he has stopped short of MY breaking point. But I am living large. By some accounts in recent days my net worth has been valued at twenty four thousand dollars.

The common man simply won't have the same boiling point that I do. Us Webmasters are cut from a different cloth, lol. (the responses to that last line should be classic).

Would that be a loincloth? <Jetophile snicker>

It's nice to be livin' large, and I dig your increasing net value, which is why i am trying to stay on your good side.

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yeah to speak to what SD is saying, im not sure we as Jets fans have the right to cheap tickets.

People are going to hate hearing this, but it is another simple case of economics- Supply and demand. And Woody has the leverage.

Very simple-Woody has a product. It is not oxygen, it is not milk, so there is nothing that is life sustaining in his product. That pretty much makes it an open market item, subject to consumer want.

The consumer want is suggested by tens of thousands on a waiting list for his product. Some have been there decades.

No one is forced to pay Woody his $$. There is no guillotine being held over one's head. You can walk away and not pay him a red cent.

Listen, if I had hundreds of millions tied up in debt with a sports franchise, damn right I would try to make money back on my investment. Particularly if I know people are going to pay it.

I hate to take this side, but it is the way it is. Like it or leave it.

The "supply and demand" argument is only valid if Woody's only source of income is from ticket sales. Not the case. CBS, DirectTV, ESPN et al are all sources of revenue. He also gets money from merchandise and and all the other crap they sell at the games. Add on top of all that, NFL revenue sharing.

Thats number one. Second of all, this guy has no problem shelling out the big bucks for lawyers and accountants to get creative with off-shore tax shelters, but his accountants cant figure out a way to negate the 10% increases every year in ticket prices? Fine, he doesn't have to justify it. But finally, lets stop the philanthropist BS with this joker.

Philanthropy is NOT: The federal government says instead of taking 15% of your income up to this dollar amount, and 20% between X dollar amounts, and everything above that at 30%, we'll allow you to donate X amount to charity.

Philanthropy IS: The government telling you instead of paying us your taxes, just keep it. And you giving it to charity anyway.

I'm sick and tired of sanctimonious *sswipes like Woody Johnson and Bruce Springsteen rolling themselves out a red carpet and putting out a press release because they "donated" thousands of dollars to Lupus or handicapped children.

You didnt donate crap, you got yourself a below line 7 tax write-off.

Oh, and one other thing. Woody paid 635 million for the team. What do you think he could get for it if he sells it today?

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I agree, it is a dangerous game to play, and you have to be careful how hard you push.

But, right now the NFL is the hottest sport entertainment ticket to be had, and they are just cashing in on that. The new stadium will only help propel that.

His danger point is not real near, because of that tasty stadium treat that will carry him for 3-4 years at least.

I understand what you are saying, just don't expect the owners to.

Scott it is further then you expect.

Even during these times when the entertainment choices are numerous and families are priced out of attending games, Northeast pro teams draw well.

The Bruins and Celtics have been driven in the ground by cheap owners (Bruins) and mismangement (Celtics) for the past two decades, but 15-16K people still go to every game.

As Jet Moses said, Woody earns money elsewhere. If the NFL deal is good enough to keep Green Bay on somewhat equal footing with teams froM NY and no LA team, then Woody can pretty much play the game in front of an empty stadium and still make money.

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Me too! That stadium issue still annoys me. He had a great shot at QUEENS and reacted like the spoiled little boy that he is! He took his toys and ran home!

Woody's a loser. He did one thing right, since he bought the team- hire Mangini and Tannenbaum. But hey, even a broken clock gets the time right once a day.

The guy looks for any angle to squeeze a nickel out of somebody else.

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Good article. In fact, I registered here to respond to it.

I do have some issues with the way the Bill Belichick resignation was portrayed:

There was no way he could have "reached out" to Bill Belichick because he did not own the team when Belichick resigned. Here's a quick timeline.

1/3/00: Parcells resigns

1/4/00: Belichick resigns (and Gutman does his "smear job" -- which most of us at the time thought was an accurate assessment of Bill Belichick)

1/11/00: Woody buys team

1/14/00: NFL commences hearings on the Belichick case

1/18/00: NFL approves Woody

1/24/00: Parcells hires Groh

1/26/00: Parcells negotiates ONE draft pick from Patriots for Belichick. Hearings are suspended.

1/27/00: Patriots hire Belichick

Sources:

http://www.newyorkjets.com/team/history/2000

http://www.allthingsbillbelichick.com/archive00.htm

My point is, Woody deserves plenty of criticism based on the facts, so lets make sure we've got them straight. He also deserves credit for letting Parcells, and then Bradway, and then Tangini, do their jobs (however well or however badly) without interference. Do we really want this guy to be another Jerry Jones?

Having said all that...yes, raising ticket prices and moving to Jersey both suck...

To take on that last issue-Manhattan was never going to happen and you can not blame Johnson for that- too many interest groups and opposition-

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To take on that last issue-Manhattan was never going to happen and you can not blame Johnson for that- too many interest groups and opposition-

Living where I live, I certainly don't have much of a right to beat my chest about NYC-local issues. I did grow up in Rego Park, and would have loved seeing the Jets back in Queens. But it's not something that affects my life directly anyway.

But why do the Giants get a facility adjacent to the new stadium and the Jets dont?

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Living where I live, I certainly don't have much of a right to beat my chest about NYC-local issues. I did grow up in Rego Park, and would have loved seeing the Jets back in Queens. But it's not something that affects my life directly anyway.

But why do the Giants get a facility adjacent to the new stadium and the Jets dont?

^

I think I resemble this poster.

:character42:

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Good article. In fact, I registered here to respond to it.

I do have some issues with the way the Bill Belichick resignation was portrayed:

There was no way he could have "reached out" to Bill Belichick because he did not own the team when Belichick resigned. Here's a quick timeline.

1/3/00: Parcells resigns

1/4/00: Belichick resigns (and Gutman does his "smear job" -- which most of us at the time thought was an accurate assessment of Bill Belichick)

1/11/00: Woody buys team

1/14/00: NFL commences hearings on the Belichick case

1/18/00: NFL approves Woody

1/24/00: Parcells hires Groh

1/26/00: Parcells negotiates ONE draft pick from Patriots for Belichick. Hearings are suspended.

1/27/00: Patriots hire Belichick

Sources:

http://www.newyorkjets.com/team/history/2000

http://www.allthingsbillbelichick.com/archive00.htm

My point is, Woody deserves plenty of criticism based on the facts, so lets make sure we've got them straight. He also deserves credit for letting Parcells, and then Bradway, and then Tangini, do their jobs (however well or however badly) without interference. Do we really want this guy to be another Jerry Jones?

Having said all that...yes, raising ticket prices and moving to Jersey both suck...

Good job. ;)

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People are going to hate hearing this, but it is another simple case of economics- Supply and demand. And Woody has the leverage.

Very simple-Woody has a product. It is not oxygen, it is not milk, so there is nothing that is life sustaining in his product. That pretty much makes it an open market item, subject to consumer want.

The consumer want is suggested by tens of thousands on a waiting list for his product. Some have been there decades.

No one is forced to pay Woody his $$. There is no guillotine being held over one's head. You can walk away and not pay him a red cent.

Listen, if I had hundreds of millions tied up in debt with a sports franchise, damn right I would try to make money back on my investment. Particularly if I know people are going to pay it.

I hate to take this side, but it is the way it is. Like it or leave it.

As sympathetic as I am to JetMo, this is pretty much the truth. You can watch the Jets on TV. No one is holding a gun to your head to drive to the Meadowlands.

But I KNOW if Johnson decides to go the PSL route, there will be more corporate types and less real fans at the game, including likely myself. I could not in good conscience plunk down $5000 for the righ to buy Jets tickets. Johnson is or was a Knicks season ticketholder. Hopefully that experience should inform him that you cannot perputaully treat your fans like ATM machines, that there is a breaking point that begins to impact on your live gate product. But I don't know enough about the guy to say he's smart enough to see that.I am to some degree heartened that a. he's partners with decent people like the Maras(who I know from people that work with them in their financial service company are not real keen on the PSL idea and think it's merely sticking up thier ebst customers, even if the Tisch branch of their ownership is) and b. that he's grown friendly with Bob Kraft, who for all is faults, didn't go for PSLs.

Simply if Johnson goes for PSLs, we should revisit this whole issue, with extreme prejudice.

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