madmike1 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 YOU GUYS ARE MORONS AND WASTING OUR TIME, ARGUING ABOUT NOTHING!!!!!!!! Yeah. It took me way too long to realize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxscott Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Yeah. It took me way too long to realize that. admission is the first step of recovery, we're all very proud of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Get out of town-You mean the discussion of sports and relative players can be based on opinion? And no one is ever 100% right? That just can't be. How can that be possible? See what you taught yourelf today? SD...madmike has put you on his ignore list. Are you going to be okay? I mean, I can't imagine the pain you're feeling right now. I know we're rival fans but you're a good guy and I hope you don't do anything to hurt yourself over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 "There are three kinds of lies .. lies .. damned lies .. and statistics" MARK TWAIN This semi-ironic statement refers to the persuasive power of numbers, and succinctly describes how even accurate statistics can be used to bolster inaccurate arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 There are three kinds of lies .. lies .. damned lies .. and statistics MARK TWAIN This semi-ironic statement refers to the persuasive power of numbers, and succinctly describes how even accurate statistics can be used to bolster inaccurate arguments. You nailed it Ham. The pervsive use to rely on statistics and to use them as the be all and end all to define players is loaded with fallacies, and only a fool would use them exclusively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 You want to call him productive, ok, but he is horrible with RISP, and he does not make great outs. If you want to call that productive, be my guess. That is funny because Adam Dunn's best OPS numbers in ANY situation last season happened to be with RISP and 2 outs. But don't let the cold hard facts get in the way of your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 That is funny because Adam Dunn's best OPS numbers in ANY situation last season happened to be with RISP and 2 outs. But don't let the cold hard facts get in the way of your eyes. In fact Dunn is UNDERRATED because a lot of people have some of the mistaken ideas that scott does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I wish Dunn didn't cost $10 million or the buccos might have been able to swing a deal for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I wish Dunn didn't cost $10 million or the buccos might have been able to swing a deal for him.For who gonzalez? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 For who gonzalez? Don't remember who it was for, was just a rumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Don't remember who it was for, was just a rumor. Adam Laroche isn't that much worse then Dunn. That was a very good trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Would have been nice to get them both though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 That is funny because Adam Dunn's best OPS numbers in ANY situation last season happened to be with RISP and 2 outs. But don't let the cold hard facts get in the way of your eyes. OPS does not tell the whole story. Dunn walked a lot, I don't deny that. But, Dunn's average with RISP declined with men on base, than in comparison to when no one was on. Those are also the cold hard facts. Don't just tell one side of teh story. His avg with RISP was awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Dunn 2006 OPS None on/None out: .711 None on 1/2 out: .966 Men on 2 outs: .727 Man on 3rd < 2 outs: .555 See the trend? His BA in those situations? None on/None out: .201 None on 1/2 out: .276 Men on 2 outs: .183 Man on 3rd < 2outs .150 Yeah, this guy is the epitome of clutch. People, dont let OPS be your be all end all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 But, Dunn's average with RISP declined with men on base, than in comparison to when no one was on. That makes no sense, how can there be RISP with no men on base? I guess when Dunn is at bat, there's always a man in scoring position; The Big Donkey can mash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 That makes no sense, how can there be RISP with no men on base? I guess when Dunn is at bat, there's always a man in scoring position; The Big Donkey can mash. I said his average declined when there was RISP, in comparison to when no runners were on. The outs that he made, were non-productive outs, from when I watched. Yes, teh man can mash. But, that is his only talent. ala Kingman-my original statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 You nailed it Ham. The pervsive use to rely on statistics and to use them as the be all and end all to define players is loaded with fallacies, and only a fool would use them exclusively. Stats are a valuable item used as part of the evaluation of a player. But only a part. Watching a player for an extended period of time is still the best way to evaluate said player. Using stats as the defining guide will give one a false reading more often then not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Here is Dunn describing h mself in an interview this February-The man describes his own season last year as "terrible": Dunn looks noticeably leaner, he said he's done more running and eating much better. New hitting coach Brook Jacoby visited him for about a month ago in Houston. Dunn said he just wants to forget last season, when he 40 home runs, drove in 92 runs and scored 99 runs. He also hit .234, struck out a major league high 194 times and committed 13 errors. "I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Here is Dunn describing h mself in an interview this February-The man describes his own season last year as "terrible": Dunn looks noticeably leaner, he said he's done more running and eating much better. New hitting coach Brook Jacoby visited him for about a month ago in Houston. Dunn said he just wants to forget last season, when he 40 home runs, drove in 92 runs and scored 99 runs. He also hit .234, struck out a major league high 194 times and committed 13 errors. "I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Man oh man...that Dunn is a real moron. Doesn't he know anything about sabermetrics;) Wait a minute. Aren't stats the be-all-end-all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Wait a minute. Aren't stats the be-all-end-all? The point I know the three of us are trying to make is that ANYONE can use stats to support any argument that they have. Dunn with the OPS is a perfect case. My use of RISP counters it in a different way. The truth lies somewhere in between, to be honest. ANYONE who tells you that HE knows how to use stats correctly, and that stats provide true context is a BS artist. plain and simple. Watch the game. Know the game. Talk about the game in generalities and not stat specific definitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 The point I know the three of us are trying to make is that ANYONE can use stats to support any argument that they have. Dunn with the OPS is a perfect case. My use of RISP counters it in a different way. The truth lies somewhere in between, to be honest. ANYONE who tells you that HE knows how to use stats correctly, and that stats provide true context is a BS artist. plain and simple. Watch the game. Know the game. Talk about the game in generalities and not stat specific definitions. This is it, in a nutshell. Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted March 29, 2007 Author Share Posted March 29, 2007 Someone just stole Igawa from me in the fantasy draft I was saving him for my late round sleeper and one of you guys just swooped in and stole him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 I said his average declined when there was RISP, in comparison to when no runners were on. The outs that he made, were non-productive outs, from when I watched. Yes, teh man can mash. But, that is his only talent. ala Kingman-my original statement. That might have been what you meant, but its not what you said. And you guys are right, if you take away/discount his home runs, he sucks; except for getting on base so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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